Monday - July 27th 2009

canadian-healthcare-imagesHour One: Why is Andrew J. Hall, head of Citigroup Inc.’s trading firm, the real criminal in the case of the obese teen?

Hour Two: "The myths and truths about Canadian healthcare with opposite sides - Carrie Lukas of the Independent Women's Forum www.iwf.org & Sara Robinson, American journalist and futurist living in Canada www.ourfuture.org

Hour Three: "Embedded With Organized Labor: Journalistic Reflections on the Class War at Home" Thom speaks with journalist Steve Early about his new book www.labornotes.org

Comments

Quark (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#1

'Short, very interesting article in the current The Week magazine with new tidbits about "The Family", including (surprising) names of other members, their goals, etc.

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/98841/DCs_invisible_army_for_Christ

For example, I didn't know they were actively against unions:

"What does the Family believe?
Its theology is vague, elastic, and focused on power. The basic precepts came to Vereide in a vision in 1935, according to the group’s literature. Living in Seattle, he came to believe that union organizing in the city was communist-inspired. Jesus appeared to him in the form of the president of U.S. Steel, who told him to gather “key men”—prominent businessmen and political leaders—to beat back the unions in His name. Vereide’s recruiting efforts spread eastward, and in 1941 he arrived in Washington, where he began cultivating friendships with powerful people and setting up prayer groups. By then, Vereide was convinced that conventional Christianity had it backwards: Instead of ministering to the down-and-out, Jesus wanted believers to tend to the “up-and-out”—members of America’s elite who lacked intimacy with Jesus. In Vereide’s worldview, free-market capitalism is divinely ordained, and unions and regulations are a form of blasphemy."

Making Progress (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#2

http://www.uhuh.com/control/garden.htm

Check out "Operation Garden Plot" - The United States Civil Disturbance Plan 55-2
It seems to be a contingency plan for martial law.

Ok, so I work with an 85 year old former NSA code breaker who say's when he worked for the NSA it stood for No Such Agency and he had to tell people he worked for the Post Office.
Anyway, he's a total conspiracy nut. He believes that aliens walk amoung us and are able to take human life forms. He also believes that global warming is caused by aliens and that they are warming up the planet so they can live here because they are not carbon based life forms. He's a really smart person and claims to be a former insider who would know these things. Also, he refuses to tell me everything, and says that he'll take some things to his grave.
So, my question is: How much of of the 3am radio crap is true and how much of it is lunacy?

Mark (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#3

I found it difficult to stomach the intellectual gymnastics and mental legerdemain Thom engaged at the close-of-business on Friday. Damned me if I’m going to allow him or any other white person get away with that outrage he and all these other white “liberals” and “mainstream” media types have been making to justify the conduct of that Cambridge police officer. Henry Louis Gates supplied the proof of his innocence of any crime to that officer. That officer knew a mistake had been made. Yet this officer arrested him--because he had the badge and the gun—in other words, he had all the power to use and abuse, which he did; Gates was the sole person in this situation who was powerless, and his position as a Harvard professor and possession of the moral high ground was completely immaterial. But far worse than any of this is the idea that you must be completely subservient to police, meaning you cannot say anything that a “sensitive”—especially with the trigger finger—cop might construe as “disrespectful,” even if you are clearly innocent. Must we assume upon encountering a cop that they are all bullies and thugs, just waiting to show you how “courageous” they are? You as a law-abiding citizen have no First Amendment rights when it comes to confronting police abuse of power, especially if you are a racial minority. You can even be beaten or killed, and an all-white inquest jury will always find your death or near beating to death “justified.”

The criticism of Barack Obama over his initial comments over this matter are particularly mendacious, given the many subtle and unsubtle racial attacks he has been the target of daily. Have we really digressed as a society to the point where even the president cannot speak honestly on the issue of racism? Must he grovel to hyper-sensitive members of “master race”?

And yes, Gates along with black commentators did see this incidence as having a racial-motivation (if Gates was a white woman and the accusation was sexism, we would discover the real power that “majority” opinion has over “minority” opinion). When you say this cop was less racist just because he taught some racial-profiling seminar, we (minorities) may well ask “Just how racist are cops then”? Cops will always profile by race; the point of such “training” is how to avoid the appearance of racial profiling—such as calling in a person as white when he isn’t. All this he shouldn’t have said this, or he shouldn’t have done that is patronizing in the extreme. You are going to have to, however reluctantly, wrap your mind around this concept: We may live in the same world, but in separate realities.

Mark (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#4

Speaking of faux-liberalism, AM 1090 Seattle has been running an advertisement for Referendum 1, which seeks to overthrow a city ordinance that encourages shopping with reusable “green bags” by taxing disposable shopping bags that end-up clogging land-fills. The ad omits this part, claiming the usual anti-tax right-wing shibboleth of bureaucracy and government waste. I wonder how many “progressive” listeners know that this ad campaign is being financed with one million dollars from the American Chemistry Council, some plastics industry group. I wonder if the station is even aware of this; is progressive radio so desperate for ad revenue that it will air even an ad with an anti-progressive agenda? Or perhaps it knows that its listeners would rather not be inconvenienced by actually having to do something to protect the environment if it costs 20 cents per bag, or force them to remember to bring a reusable bag to the grocery store if they don't want to pay it.

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#5

Help us out if you can. Go to twitter and type 'health care' into the subject box. Be prepared to have flames fawning out of your nostrils immediately because the insurance executives and lobbyists are all there. Many of us are calling them out but we need your help.

Jared Allaway (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#6

I always worry about advertisements on AM1090. I am friends with Bernie Sanders on Facebook. He recently had a thing on Facebook about the "poor dairy farmers" losing their jobs. I don't care if Dairy farmers lose there job, they can learn how to do something that doesn't destroy the planet. LEARN HOW TO WORK WITH FRUITS AND VEGETABLES!!!

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#7

Wow Mark- this is horrid!

I wonder how many “progressive” listeners know that this ad campaign is being financed with one million dollars from the American Chemistry Council, some plastics industry group.

Worse yet in total, I am finding a lot of 'environmental' groups really aren't that well educated or even have what I would consider the best positions on matters. More and more, I distance myself from these 'groups' and have been speaking out at a Private Citizen, especially when the legislators ask me when I call them on matters.

I would not be so quick to disavow 1090 however. At green960, the station was 'forced' to air the yes on prop 8 issue re gay marriage because of the way the media is configured. In fact after writing a nasty letter to them, it was answered sincerely by one of their reporters over there and announcers whom himself said that he was gay and was an advocate for gay marriage, and how horrible his situation was because he had to read these announcements or face dire consequences.

Quark (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#8

Making Progress,

'Sounds suspisciously like a movie that has already been made --- The Arrival:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zptdkXbGG48&feature=related

Or can this be a chicken-and-egg situation? Scary, kids! (LOL)

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#9

Jared,

I study Ayurvedic medicine, as well as food of course, as I am the Food Fascist. I am also a member of PETA and have been as long as they have been in existence. I would like to ask you what your position is on farms like http://www.organicpastures.com/ and http://www.cornucopia.org/. Organic raw dairy and smaller organic milk farms have an entire thousands of years of good food health behind them as protein and as a form of calcium that does not leach from the body due to too high a protein base in the milk and another chemistry I would have to look up but that is addressed on the organic pastures site.

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#10

help- what is the link for the report Thom is discussing. I know he mentioned it twice and twice I did not get it.

The science of self sufficiency versus the legislation that allows for self sufficiency are two different things. I speak of say rain water, Colorado had to pass a law so that their own citizens could harvest rain water. I would be more self sufficient if the kings and queens of America would ease up on the regulations - even the raw milk argument started above- regulators here are trying to making milking a cow illegal. We are on our way to a third world country for sure if we are now allowed access to our natural resources. BTW - thx Thom Hartmann for turning us all onto this site http://www.celdf.org/

DRichards (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#11

Spitzer: Federal Reserve is 'a Ponzi Scheme, an Inside Job'

The Federal Reserve - The quasi-autonomous body that controls the US's money supply - is a "Ponzi scheme" that created "bubble after bubble" in the US economy and needs to be held accountable for its actions, says Eliot Spitzer, the former governor and attorney-general of New York.

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23142.htm

Loretta (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#12

Mark,

I completely agreed with you until I heard the police officer explain what goes on in his mind when approaching a possible crime scene. Because of the call that had been put in and the fact that Gates lived there, he asked Gates to step outside because he was worried there was another man in the house that could have put Gates in danger.

Gates complete outrage is entirely understandable because of racial profiling and the horribly unfair treatment police officers consistently wield out to people who don't look like they do, but in this case, the police officer was trying to protect Gates by getting him out of the way of possible harm. And when Gates wouldn't do that, he felt both he and Gates were in danger and things escalated.

At that point the adrenalin level in both men seemed to cause the rest of the events, and The Police have the guns by God so they need to have complete control of themselves in that way, but what Obama said was brilliant and wonderful. The larger issue is that of-course race relations are still very volatile and in this instance it seems that two very good men were suffering from this fact not necessarily by their own fault.

The police have way too much power and act in despicable, racist ways but in this case I was really surprised by the police officer's description of what he thought was taking place at Gate's home..Like most sound bite news reports, they hadmissed a very large piece of the picture.

Quark (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#13

Food Fascist,

I wrote it down, but haven't checked it yet:

www.equalitytrust.org.uk

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#14

DRichards,

hot article- thx for posting, I was just putting a package together for a friend of mine so paranoid he will not use email and your note here came just in time for me to run the package on over to the post office.

Loretta (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#15

Mark, also, you might be interested in what happened here in Portland. We had a terrible tragedy where a mentally ill man was brutally killed by police because someone had called in to say he was urinating in public, what turned out to be a false accusation. He was simply having a psychotic episode and frightened , he peed on his own pants. While the police were "subduing" him --by kicking him and beating him--they broke ribs, which harmed his organs, if I remember right, and because they neglected to take him to the hospital, he died.

The family of this man just received a huge settlement. I think it was 900,000 and the police are being forced to get more training. Porltand is also opening a much needed urgent care center for those with mental health conditions, something we've needed for a long time. An article on the issue was published in Portland's-- Mercury--

As someone with a mental health condition where I have been treated unconscionably by professionals during a few crisis this whole incident did me in. I could barely stand to read of it. I am still beyond furious but I am grateful at least little good has come of it.

Quark (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#16

Speaking of computer viruses (per Thom's comments), here's one of the best anitvirus software programs I've found to date (I've tried at least half a dozen different antivirus programs):

http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/3/default.htm

There is a 90-day free trial period. You can still subscribe for at least a year, tho the program will be discontinued at the end of the year.

Recently, I tried everything short of taking my computer to a shop to be "professionally fixed" (which I was just about to do) to rid it of a particularly nasty trojan virus. As a last-ditch effort, I discovered and downloaded Windows "Live One Care." It worked like a dream! I was so relieved. There are a lot of other benefits to recommend it, too.

When I told my computer-savvy son about this amazing new program, he said, "Oh, I've been using that for 2 years!"

Apparently Windows is coming out with a new anti-virus program later this year, but I don't know how it compares.

Anyway, I was really impressed.

'Just wanted to share...(and I'm not getting a commission!)

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#17

THX Quark- looks like there is a book to order and entire web site stuffed with stuff from which Thom may have taken a main result. THX much- printed that main order info page.

Wow- what discussions in here today - so much work to do, so much work to do-

My focus these days is how can I be self sufficient because so much is in flux- if I were a righy- I might have to take on the term 'bunker-er' . Do buy even my cat food by the 6 month supply these days! Scary world!

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#18

Woah! you got her now, Thom We will spend less money on health care for 10 years than we have already in Iraq / Afghanistan- these righties have no right to be leaders at all- their all nuts.

B Roll (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#19

Thom,

Today isn’t the first time and I’m sure it won’t be the last time that you state that “socialism didn’t work out.” You never mention that the “socialist” countries, which emerged from poverty and crisis, were under tremendous economic, political and military pressure from the wealthy highly developed capitalist countries. There’s absolutely no nuance in your analysis of why socialism failed and you rarely acknowledge the crimes against humanity that capitalism fed and nurtured the rise of capitalism.

But since this is a capitalist world… How the hell do you like it?

It’s interesting that you have more faith in our being able to fine-tune a system that has inequality and competition as its basic premise than in our being able to fine-tune a system that has equality and cooperation as its basic premise.

Quark (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#20

How can Carrie Lukas argue that costs of a universal healthcare system will never go down? TWICE the amount of money we need (per costs in other industrialized countries) is already in the "system." It's just going to the wrong people!

Carrie sounds like she just puts her fingers in her ears while she sings, "I can't hear any actual facts, la-la-la-la!"

Quark (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#21

B Roll,

I attended a MN healthcare forum the other evening. In our round table discussions, we discussed the "corporation-controlling-everything" problem. I made the comment that we already tried to make changes (2004 and 2008 elections) the peaceful way. The response was laughter from everyone in our group.

Too bad they didn't know I was only partly kidding.

MightyAchillies (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#22

I just heard the por insurance person. I have to say that these people are insincere. I worked for an insurance company as an adjuster. When I stared as a trainee, I was told that we did a service by helping to create efficiency and preventing fraud. In practice, working tword the monthly goals, it was about "closeing the file." In short, this lead to practices by many adjusters (under preasure) to delay, dismiss and deny. All this so that we can get our monthly numbers/projections in and shore up the bottom line. This system does not care about the real plight of the people for whom they claim to provide care.

Let's be clear (a phrase that Obama uses) as an adjuster, I was between the claimant and the doctor. I was there to impede the doctor's progress if it meant that she was going to spend "the companies money."

As a matter of principle, I could not continue as in that capacity and have moved on. But i n the course of things I had learned about workers comp in California. This points out a giant inefficency where resourse are redirected from thier higher purpose. The company gets to send the claimant to the companies doctor. At some point the disatisfied claimant employee will select his own doctor. There may be a dispue where the claimant gets an attrorney and then may get a Qualified Medical Examiner. Of course the employer gets an attorney and thier own QME. When they settle they will get another doctor konw as a Agreed upon Medical Examiner (AME) all the while having incurred huge cost and, perhaps preventing legitimate claimants from getting care.

To me this would be all solved and every thing could be applied to the higher purpose by Single Payer health care where doctores are independent and autonomous and can act accourding to thier oaths.

Pax Vobiscum.

AZAFVET (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#23

I have had several operations in the past ten years. Each time, I was asked if I had a living will which my wife and I had drawn up some 15 years ago. So what's the big deal about counseling sessions to make sure that end of life issues are addressed and understood. The opponents are grasping at straws.

Loretta (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#24

I loved Sara's term, "moral no-brainer," Why aren't the righty moralists in the US able to see that basic health care for all is a "moral no-brainer".

B Roll (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#25

Quark,

Please be careful, I'd hate to think of you (wo)manning the barricades and burning tires in the streets.

It seems to me that the biggest problem we have is the uninformed, misinformed and distracted state of the minds of the American people. When you hear and read the strange things that so many people believe it's not encouraging.

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#26

Need help on one more thing. My Congressional rep's aide gave me this link to read about 'the health care bill'.

However, it does not seem to be what I am hearing other people reading from. Can you help me with a link to 'the health care bill' - To my knowledge there are a number of them out there and so especially when dealing with the Right, I cannot even tell the origin of their spin. I would like to be citing actual language myself.

But where is 'it'?

OpenCongress Summary:
This is the House Democrats' big health care reform bill. Broadly, it seeks to expand health care coverage to the approximately 40 million Americans who are currently uninsured by lowering the cost of health care and making the system more efficient. To that end it includes a new government-run insurance plan to compete with the private companies, a requirement that all Americans have health insurance, a prohibition on denying coverage because of pre-existing conditions and, to pay for it all, a surtax on households with an income above $350,000. A more complete summary of the bill can be read here.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/show

Jared Allaway (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#27

People think the government shouldn't pay for health care. Well the government gave subsidies to meat and dairy industry that dwarfed subsidies to fruit and vegetable industry. Fruit and vegetables should be consumed in larger quantities than meat and dairy, why are they getting larger subsidies?

People think the government shouldn't pay for health care, the government already paid to enforce patent law for the oil companies that reduces our transportation options, and forces us to kill ourselves with refinery and car exhaust.

I heard recently that the oil companies no longer hold the patents for the batteries found in the Toyota Rav4-EV. I can't wait to see manufacturers building Nickel Metal Hydride batteries again. Over 100 miles on a charge, top speed around 70 miles per hour, no tailpipe, no cancer.

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#28

Say- did you hear the Kucinic oh how do you spell that congressman's name! put in a provision in 'the health care bill' allowing states to form their own health care plans- expecting that states right s might be an issue and this would be a sort of safety net back fire.

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#29

Dont forget Rep Mike Ross - a report I heard on the radio was that he was a pharmacist!

The current Obstacle of the Week: Rep. Mike Ross, a conservative Democrat from small-town Arkansas who is currently leading a Blue Dog rebellion from his perch on the now-critical House Energy and Commerce Committee.

Yesterday afternoon, committee chair Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) canceled today's mark-up of the leading reform bill because Rep. Ross and six other Blue Dogs had announced they would block the legislation from leaving committee.

Read more! http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/07/meet-rep-mike-ross.html

MightyAchillies (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#30

Thom,

Just heard the story of how the insurance company sent the letter and denied you claim due to no responce. Again, this is the nature of the corperations to pad their bottom line.

I noted that people think that this is a discussion about the government paying for health care. People should focus more on how we are going to pay and efficency. We are going to pay any way wether it is part or your compensation, an insurance you bought for yourself or part of the government package, it is part of the economy. The question is what is the most efficient manner to pay for this expense and will yeild the best service?

From my discussion above and what we know the greed of the insurace companies (think that they are spending $1.4 million a day to stop a discussion on health care, what a waste) the best solution is single payer (non-corporation).

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#31

Looks like Sara Robinson's group Our Future.org is also onto Ross

Here is a link to that article, however it does not cover the founding of Ross Pharmacy, We have got to know more about his business dealings.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009073023/why-rep-mike-ross-ar-4-bl...

MightyAchillies (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#32

I think I sent this in before:

Great is a society that plants trees that will yeild shade for futer generations to enjoy. -Greek Proverb

What kind of a society do we want for our children?

Pax Vobiscum.

PavelR (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#33

Referencing what Thom was talking about in the first hour regarding Japan…I happened to see the program “Ascent of Money: Risky Business” with Niall Ferguson last week on our local PBS station. This program was complete corporatist propaganda partially covering the Pinochet regime in Chile and the collaboration of Milton Friedman and the “Chicago Boys” in the coup in 1973. It left out the involvement of Kissinger and Nixon in the Allende murder and the coup, and presented an underdeveloped, one-dimensional analysis that was shocking to see on a PBS. To top it off, following the section on the “wonders” of Chile after the coup the program suddenly switched to Japan, and proceeded to trash the Japanese governmental system referring to it as “socialism” run amok. There was a point while watching this program when the light bulb went off, and I realized that Japan is the next target of the corporatists. The gloves are certainly off as that one caller mentioned in the first hour, and the desire is to steal the Japanese populace blind while privatizing the country. Watch out! I bet we start hearing a lot more about how Japan is a terrible place, and it is all due to those dirty “socialist” ideas.
To view the The Ascent of Money, please go here:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/ascentofmoney/featured/the-ascent-of-money-episo...

Robert Marmorstein (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#34

These Blue-Dog Democrats are simply making a power grab and forcing a defacto-Parliamentary Styled Legislative process on all of us.

I will not give one more dollar to any group tht funds all or in part any of these Blue Dogs. Tht means the DCCC and the DSCC. I am also going one step further; I am going to give money to anyone who runs a primary challenge to these Blue Dogs. I may even give to 3rd party challengers in the General election for the sole purpose of helping the Republican challenger win.

Healthcare is a Core issue for us. I can compromise on many issues, but not supporting the President on a core issue like this deserves the ultimate rebuke. What good is it to be a DINO on a core issue like this?

Quark (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#35

Food Fascist,

Yes, someone (on the blog, on Thom's show, who?) mentioned Kucinich's amendment recently. I posted that, if it becomes law, I'm considering contacting the most progressive pro-single-payer legislators in the state and volunteering to help them make that happen, working from the "inside."

Loretta (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#36

While listening to Steve Early, I just realized something about health care benefits that employers have been providing. Health insurance itself became, over the years, a status symbol in a way. The attitude toward uninsured was often--"well if you just got a decent job and worked as hard as I do you would have the great benefits that I have."

I think that part of trouble we are having with convincing people that the public option is a good thing is that many people have spent so much time sacrificing wages and all sorts of things to gain their high-status insurance that they may feel worried about the loss of meaning in all that if we provide universal care.

Perhaps people who do have insurance feel that their efforts to work hard to get insurance wouldn't mean anything if the playing field were leveled and everyone got what they feel they have sacrificed so much to achieve. Even though in the end they will have more money, higher wages, a GDP that can offer more support to schools and clean energy, loosing the "status" of being one of the elite insured may feel scary for them?

Maybe unconsciously they like having some people go without insurance because it makes them feel like a better person?

I'm trying to make sense of this craziness.

Rasta (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#37

WHAT A BORING SHOW

ANYTHING TO DEFLECT AWAY FROM ZIONISM AND THE LATEST RABBIS TRAFFICKING IN HUMAN ORGANS I GUESS

THOM HARTMANN IS GOING DOWN IN FLAMES...AND IT'S OBVIOUS

AZAFVET (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#38
moonbat666 (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#39

Is this web page slow, or is it my computer? I don't experience this on most sites. . Any advice? I'm using a small Compaq lap top Thanks.

DRichards (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#40

It seems to me that it's time for us progressive to take off our blinders and acknowledge that the corporations own Obama and the Democratic party.

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#41

Rasta go listen to Rush Limbaugh you rude a hotel. You have something to say, say it. No need to run down a fellow who works 24/7 to help us wipe our own butts and keep this nation free for all- You have some information to report, report it like everyone else does.

Food Fascist (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#42

Quark- cool! on the state systems. California will have a hey day with this! Accupuncture, home grown herbals - I am actually really liking the idea, except for the fact that Schwarzennegger already vetoed SB840 twice here. Could Obama really make Schwazennegger have a health care plan in CA for example?

Rick (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#43

Hi Tom, need some serious help was hoping you can give me the talking points I need to combat a conservative friend. He asked me the other day at what point would I consider the Stimulus a faiilure? I told him, that we took years to get to this point and would need more time. Well he rephrased the question into at what percentage of unemployment would I consider the stimulus a failure? What would be the best way to answer this type of question?

mac26s (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#44

Re: ATT censors website piece on Am Left 7/27/09 about 5:30 pm

What was the name of the website?

It was noted that Sarah Palin emails were initially published on the censored site.

Loretta (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#45

Rick,

I hope to hear Thom's answer too because what seems really difficult is that we are defending a somewhat wrong-headed stimulus package. Thom often tells us that he wishes they would have bailed out the actual homeowners not the banks which seems really right because the banks have hoarded the money. But on the other hand, isn't it true that more than half of the stimulus money hasn't been given out yet? Perhaps Obama's team is waiting until we get a health care bill passed to be more proactive with homeowners?

But the bad thing is that what we have to use to argue with people who don't want bailouts-- for anyone-- is the imaginary what if. That's all we have. We were told that if we would have done nothing we would have had a worldwide economic depression so all we can say is" Well, you think it's bad now, the unemployment numbers would have been twenty percent if nothing had been done." But we don't have any proof for any of this because we chose the bailout and we aren't sure what would have happened exactly.

That's why President Obama has such a horribly difficult job. The Rebublicans can easily blame him for everything even though they got us into this mess and we have a very hard time coming up with a defense they will believe. Plus, progressives are annoyed that more isn't being done for working people which seems like Obama's terrible mistake unless he is timing that part of the stimulus for after health care reform. President Obama isn't making anyone happy right now and I'm not sure that he will ever be able to.

Loretta (not verified) 7 years 34 weeks ago
#46

Here's an article that lists some of the markers that they thought could be used to determine if the stimulus package is successful or not. President Obama himself claimed that unemployment numbers was the most important indicator and we are still in a big mess. He promised to create millions of jobs. Has the money reached the people who will create those jobs yet?

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/17/news/economy/obama_stimulus_meas_success...

BlueBerry Pick'n (not verified) 7 years 33 weeks ago
#47

golly gee, we're mighty lucky that you've got an American living in CANADA who can explain Canadian healthcare for you!

I mean, with over 30 million Canadians from which to fucking choose, it must have been a daunting task to find a genuine American who can do the explaining for us!

yet again, Americans are myopic & self-centred... talking about healthcare reforms, without EVER UTTERING A FUCKING WORD ABOUT HOW AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS ARE SPENDING A FORTUNE TO KILL HEALTHCARE IN CANADA.

gee, I guess its because Canadians are the fucking Missing Link or something... to white to invade... just friendly enough to give us your pestilence-riddled corrupt HealthCare Lobbyists...

gee, thanks for caring.

yet again, if its about Americans... who fucking cares about anybody else?

The Rest of the World is just the background players in your narcissistic little dramas, aren't we?

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Bloomberg said on Monday the pound had sustained its biggest fall against the dollar in 11 months

Clinton: I'll defend Israel but push for 'two-state solution

Hillary Clinton believes both Republican candidates Donald Trump and Ted Cruz "missed the mark" with their approach to the Israel-Palestinian Arab conflict
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"Thom is a national treasure. Read him, embrace him, learn from him, and follow him as we all work for social change."
Robert Greenwald, political activist and founder and president of Brave New Films
From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"If you wonder why and when giant corporations got the power to reign supreme over us, here’s the story."
Jim Hightower, national radio commentator and author of Swim Against the Current
From Screwed:
"Hartmann speaks with the straight talking clarity and brilliance of a modern day Tom Paine as he exposes the intentional and systematic destruction of America’s middle class by an alliance of political con artists and outlines a program to restore it. This is Hartmann at his best. Essential reading for those interested in restoring the institution that made America the envy of the world."
David C. Korten, author of The Great Turning and When Corporations Rule the World