HORRAY For Having Dr. Batra on again!!! It's been too long!!!!
"Renaissance Thinking About the Issues of Our Day"
HORRAY For Having Dr. Batra on again!!! It's been too long!!!!
@making progress, I second that, though I don't look forward to the inevitable fear and depression his discussions generally have on me. Its a complicated emotion.
@MAXROT: To answer your question from yesterday:
The recycling of a man called ‘salvation’ in the Greek tongue into an idol formed of flesh matters not one iota UNLESS you are attempting to destroy a cyclical “Life” oriented religion by imposing “Death” oriented mythology over its basic tenets and supplant the original religion’s written basic documentation with a “Rapture” focused Book of the dead by relabeling statements of social truth as soothsaying. Saul/Paul had anger issues.
On the other hand, this does not mean that there is not value to Christian philosophy. An accurate reading of their mythos allows access to social truth and can support edification of a society. While the society it focuses on varies from my personal preferences, it is not without merit. SO it does matter and can result in a positive outcome.
On the third, my concern is the focus on resurrection also allows access to the juxtaposed concept of inflicting harm to generate good. By diverting the blame from the Romans who inflicted the punished to the Israelite leadership, one institutionalizes a blood libel. SO it matters AND is highly destructive.
On the fourth hand, . . .
@rladlof, I'm almost scared to ask your thoughts on the Virgin Mary (OK, perhaps anxious, perhaps thrilled to throw that topic out there).
I don't care what anyone says, even if she conceived as a virgin, there is no way in heaven or hell, you can convince me that Joseph her husband didn't get to work right away on removing that virgin label ASAP, well before the first XMAS.
I think your points on the second hand were pretty much where I was going.
In Karen Armstrong's massive tome, A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, she seems to imply that Christ may have encountered much of the philosophy which later became part of his teachings while he sojourned possibly as far east as India (coming upon Buddhist or Hindu teachings.)
In my opinion, "truths" are "truths" the world over. We learn from each other (if we are open to it. Listen up, conservatives/authoritarians!)
@rladlof, incidently thanks for running me through mental gymnastics this morning, I had to re-read your post twice before I could remember the question I posted yesterday.
Not your fault that I have been afflicted with piss poor memory, just amazed me how long I was perplexed (sorta humbling).
Maxrot and radlof,
I have questions to answer from yesterday, too. I need to refresh my memory, too! (Later.) :-)
I love all this thoughtful conversation. I truly feel alive with so much to think about.
@Quark, it doesn't escape my sense of irony, that Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha etc... most likely would have no problem whatsoever sitting down and talking about each others point of views and coming to agreement after agreement, and enjoying the conversation, whereas their followers (for the most part) can't.
from yesterday: quark:thanx for match game you tube: I have more on vcr.
for Zerog:re Garrett: I know he has a podcast, but I also like to participate in the chat room. ::&)
What can we do to get Sen. Sanders a decent telephone or microphone?
Yes, isn't THAT the truth! (I sometimes think what a stimulating experience Jesus must have had when, as a young man, he used to listen to and argue with the scholars and priests.) Karen Armstrong, a former Catholic nun, says that, at heart, she is Jewish because of her love of scholarship and exchange of ideas. That appeals to me, too, tho I left organized religion a long time ago.
@Quark, I too have shunned organized religion. Originally I just stopped attending Church because it bored me and felt meaningless, as time progressed my cynical side has kept me from any desire to return. I don't trust authoritarians, and Churches seem to be infested with such vermin.
I decided that no one religion had a lock on the truth. I also found that I did not believe some of the required dogma in the Protestant groups and could no longer repeat creeds, partake of the Eucharist, etc. Besides, like Groucho, I do not like "clubs."
That said, I thought Rachel Maddow's recent interview with singer/activist Sinead O'Connor was fascinating on the subject of the Catholic church and child abuse:
I don't know if I have this right, but I understand that Obama has suspended his oil drilling expansion program because of this Oil Ejection on the floor of the Gulf.
I think calling it a spill, creates an illusion that only a defined amount can escape.
@Quark, I am however beginning to feel that joining the Hartman Cult to be very reasonable. (He shoots guns too ;-) )
"New Offshore Drilling Projects ON HOLD White House says (Video)"
We don't have to explore; we know where the oil is coming from. Such a deal, eh?
I enjoy learning from Thom and his guests. However, I still feel free to question them. (I do not like Kool Aid.) ;-)
Quark Kool Aid is so last year, Tea is now the politically correct beverage to serve lemmings.
@John Doh! Was God's casting Satan out of heaven Immaculate ejection?
For all I can figure out, the “Virgin” (untouched by man) Mary was the last person to get away with “It’s immaculate” . . . More than enough reason to deify the young woman.
In Jewish thought, the Nevi’im (Prophets) were speakers of eternal truths to current social issues of the time they lived in NOT chicken bone-throwing prognosticators foretelling magical fantasy. So Isaiah was issuing public commentary by stating that the lowliest among us could grow up to be President . . . OOPS! Sorry . . . Anointed . . . AND (mis)translators spiced up the story (either intentionally or unintentionally) by turning a young (unwed) pregnant woman into a clean Petri dish for god growth.
This would mean that early Christian leaders intentionally took a mundane life-cycle story and hyped it up for consumption by the Greeks and Romans who followed the more expensive, established, magic-oriented, local myths of the times. In both Rome and Greece, taxes were collected by patronizing deities and public works were funded by religious factions to each groups’ desired specifications. SO in short Caesar Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus (Constantine as he is popularly known) was simply bowing to the socio-economic truth of the time when he took Rome Catholic . . .
Oh course, this means that one would have to subscribe to the overly jaded concept that Public Relations IS everything in Religion Marketing.
Wait! What was I typing about . . .
@MAXROT RE "harry, what would overthinking be called?"
Richard L. Adlof
My theories about Jesus
His birth was an accident. It was a case of premature immaculation.
@Maxrot: I think the Mysterious Floating Head got it.
@rladlof, heck I think having to deal with a son that thought he was the son of God would have been enough to deify her... just imagine the teenage year arguments? Who do you think came up with the exclamation "JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!"? As well as the retort "MARY MOTHER OF GOD!!!!!". (I believe it was said sarcastically too)
I've just discovered that when I edit a post it is taken from it's original position and after all previous posts. Dad gum it!
I think Mary's big problem was explaining to Joseph where Jesus came from.
As far as too big to fail goes, it goes without saying that it has to begin with too big to exist. I feel that we on the side of the people, have missed an opportunity to cast this in basic terms, and not with these often used phrases.
In my mind, any single NGO that is large enough that it has the ability to negatively influence or bring about the collapse of the foundations of American life and existence, is simply put: un-American. No private enterprise needs or should have this level of influence on every American. The founders didn't establish our form of government so that "We the people" would be subject to the outcomes and side-effects of any private action or sets of actions.
I believe there should be a call for Congress to investigate this idea and develop appropriate legislation to protect Americans from overly influential and possibly predatory NGO's so that we the people are protected from the recent unnatural disasters inflicted upon our nation. Suggested approaches might be to measure assets or income relative to GDP or other common statistic.
Casting this issue as un-American properly recognizes the real, unnecessary, and potential impact that exists today, and reinforces that we are a nation of citizens. Passing this legislation would be the will of the people, and legitimate under our right of self-government.
@harry, I think Joseph's big problem was explaining his young wife's story to his friends. "Yeah, OK, OK Joseph, whatever you say, she's a virgin, now can you make those repairs to my stable?"
(Thus leading to the towns' first use of the exclamation: JESUS, MARY, JOSEPH!!!!, just said in aggravated disgust in reference to the whole family.)
While it's interesting to hear Thom and Ravi debate whether the current Great Recession is 'U'-shaped or 'W'-shaped, I contend that the long-term trend is 'X'-shaped: Highly stratified followed by median-normative followed again by highly stratified. Perhaps our policy goal should be spelled '>------...'
You asked "Was God's casting Satan out of heaven Immaculate ejection?"
I answer: I don't know about that. I think God was casting for angels and Satan wasn't right for the part. However, I do remember attending a very hoity-toity event called the Immaculate Reception (a fund raiser of course) and someone got upset and threw a tray of horse-doovers. Franco Harris appeared out of nowhere and snagged the tray just before it hit the ground: thus keeping the event immaculate. I believe they have it on YouTube.
By the way, you can just call me Doh!. That was part of the fun of coming up with this name.. I could sign my comments "Doh!" and if anyone wants to come back at me with what they think is a smart retort, they have to start it by saying "Doh!" Now how smart will their retort seem after that.
By the way, I hope a few people remember the inspiration for my moniker, the great Frank Capra movie "Meet John Doe" starring Gary Cooper, Barbara Stanwyck, Edward Arnold and Walter Brennan. One of my favorite things from the movie was the Colonel (Brennan) warning Long John Willoughby (aka John Doe) about the "heelots" (aka the heels).
@DOH! The only flaw in your story was that subsequently Franco admitted to steroid use, so the reception ended up having a footnote in the record books.
Doh! I thought your name inspiration came from Homer Simpson.
@maxrot - It's a combination of the two, kind of like how Homer Simpson would say it.
@Maxrot, Oil spills flow upriver in the southern hemisphere, i think
I didn't know about confession or the footnote, but it doesn't change nothin for me. I don't have a footnote fetish.
@Doh, in college, i had a severe bout of athlete's footnote. I had to quit the team.
re oil spills
I've been thinking that the Republicans should change their slogan to
Spill Baby Spill
@Doh! they cant do that, "spill" might get interpreted as "confess".
"Drill, baby Drill"! is still popular among dentists.
I think the thing the frightens me the most about the Oil Spill/Coal Mine Accidents... they play right into the hands of the Nuclear Energy backers who claim that their plants are safe, and there are enough ignorant morons out there to believe it and support them.
(As Madow would say "Someone talk me down")
@maxrot: Joe Sixpack never hears what we've heard today. ie. halliburton failing to install the cut off valves, etc.
harry, you're not helping, I'm climbing higher.
re: credit: Master Card sent me a credit card in '72 just 'cause I graduated college.