The Political Theater of "Plan B"

The Political Theater of "Plan B"

All eyes are on Speaker of the House John Boehner to see if he has control of his Republican Party. Today, Boehner will try to bring his "Plan B" to the floor for a vote – a proposal that will extend the Bush tax cuts for all Americans who earn less than a million dollars a year, while allowing the tax cuts for millionaires to expire at the end of the year. Today’s vote is merely political theatre, since the Senate has promised to defeat the legislation. The White House, which has offered to keep the Bush tax cuts in place for Americans earning less than $400,000 a year, has also promised a veto.

The hypocrisy here is stunning, as Republicans for four years have argued that it would be disastrous to raise taxes on millionaires – who they call “job creators” – and now Republicans are planning to do just that – raise taxes on the rich. And even millionaire lobbyist Grover Norquist has signed off on the plan, saying it won’t violate his tax pledge. But secretly – Boehner’s plan is a giant tax hike on working Americans – and another tax cut for the super-rich. “Plan B” allows key tax credits for the middle class to expire, which will mean higher tax bills for 20 million Americans families.

At the same time, “Plan B” keeps in place huge tax breaks for the rich by permanently extending the Bush tax cuts on capital gains, dividends, and estates, which are only paid by the wealthiest Americans. But in the end, even this sweet deal for the oligarchs may not pass the Tea Party-controlled House as Boehner can only afford 24 Republicans defectors for the bill to pass. And already, at least a dozen Republicans have voiced their opposition to the plan. Keep an eye on this.

Comments

klentz's picture
klentz 1 year 43 weeks ago
#1

He's just trying to hang on as Speaker and the best way to do that is to piss off the fewest number of republicans before the next session. And the best way to do that is to do nothing.

Its time to start a "Dump Boehner" super PAC to be set up with the sole purpose of getting rid of John B. It shouldn't take too many millions to convince his Ohio constituents next cycle that he has done absolutely nothing for them as Speaker, except for scramble to keep the speakership and its associated perks. Two years of constant hammering Ohio with what a loser he is will also show republicans that they are not the only ones who can raise superPAC money for negative purposes.

I know he would end up as a lobbyist , with a legal license to pass out $ on the House floor (like he did illegally as a member) and end up with a salary of several million. But at least he would be relieved of duty.

Global's picture
Global 1 year 43 weeks ago
#2

Yep, Bohner is a bone head. What he should have done is voted to cut taxes on the three lower brackets and keep the same rates on the two higher brackets. That way he could have thrown this whole class warfare BS back in the face of ObAMA. All Americans would benefit and it would be a pro growth agenda.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#3

The Fiscal Cliff is really a wag-the-dog conspiracy to keep us all from thinking about the End-of-the-World that is about to commence very shortly...starting in Greenwich, England where it will be Dec 21, 2012 in just a few more hours...just 2 hours and 32 minutes from now. The world will start to disintegrate starting from the GMT zone and progress from east to west every hour on the hour until the very last segment has disintegrated. Good bye people...it has been fun while it lasted! ;-}

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 1 year 43 weeks ago
#4

Program cuts ARE tax increases on working people. Boehner and Nordquist are All ABOUT raising taxes.

We all EARNED those programs with our hard work making 1 percenters and 2 perecenters rich. Those programs and much more are our due! The working people do, in fact, DESERVE them, and much more.

There is not an income or wealth distribution problem but a compensation disparity problem of injustice, a pay equity problem, if you would. It's similar to the unequal pay for women. People are not compensated according to how hard they work but according to how much power and leverage they have and are able and/or willing to exercise.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 1 year 43 weeks ago
#5

In the '80s the would be oligarchs of the U.S. implemented a few strategies they had hatched to regain the power and control they lost since the '30s and especially since the '60s. One of them was a disingenuous borrowing from the left the framing and language of victimization, i.e., they charecterized themselves, the rich and powerful, the dominators and masters of society, as victims of society.

Cutting more taxes would have been anything but pro growth, absurd on its face. It would've made the economy more anemic.

A slogan I recently saw on a placard about class warfare I liked was "THEY only call it CLASS WARFARE when WE FIGHT BACK!".

Global's picture
Global 1 year 43 weeks ago
#6

Explain how cutting taxes and letting people keep and invest more of their own money would be absurd and anemic to our Economy. Unless you think all money we earn is the governments first and they will tell you how much you can keep. Your trust in government spending is absurd. Obamas trillion dollar deficits every year for his eight years is absurd. A projected 22 trillion dollar debt at the end of his 8 year term is absurd. Your trust in these temporary politicians to tweak and manipulate this economy is absurd. I think we the earners can do a better and more efficient job of growing this economy and creating jobs. Do you really think raising taxes on anyone is good for this anemic economy?

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 1 year 43 weeks ago
#7

That's the absurd logic of the Republicans, the party of owners of business as opposed to those who work for someone else. "We're going to help the working people by letting them keep more of their money." ignoring that working people don't HAVE any money that doesn't come from those owners of business, or their employers. A tax cut for wage earners is rarely enough to stimulate the economy in a recession, economic insecurity doesn't inspire self idulgent spending but a cheapness, an inclination to sit on any extra money in anticipation of a rainy day that seems ever more iminent.

Meanwhile, businesses, at this time, have much more than enough money but, until recently, were not creating jobs and were cutting them. The reason for that was that having money doesn't cause somebody to create jobs. Business has plenty of money, what it doesn't have is customers. Nobody expands a business when there is no demand just like you wouldn't start an enterprise selling used tissue paper or something else you knew nobody wanted.

Only government will make the investment necessary to restart an economy in such recession. For this reason it's okay to operate on a deficit in such times and it's best to implement an infrastructure program like Obama tried to get passed last year that the Republicans refused to consider - quite possibly because they wanted to crash the economy in time for the election. Similarly, the stimulus package that many Republican governors refused, contained money for infrastructure projects.

Studies by economists have found that a dollar in direct spending is four times as effective as a dollar in tax cuts at creating jobs.

Does that answer your question?

Kend's picture
Kend 1 year 43 weeks ago
#8

I am in Scottdale AZ for Christmas, oh sorry "the holidays" and it is scary how empty the malls are this close to Christmas. I think Global is right if we payed less taxes we would have more money left for presents etc. wouldn't we. Leave the money in the people hands and they will spend it. When they spend it companies hire.

Talking to my American freinds I can't seem to find anyone who can tell me what the plan is for jump starting the economy. Can anyone here?

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#9
Quote Global:"I think we the earners can do a better and more efficient job of growing this economy and creating jobs."

Who are "we the earners"? From most everything you have ever said it looks like you don't really mean anyone making less than $250,000/year...the majority of workers in America. I believe that you have always taken the position of arguing in favor of those who make more than $250,000/year..the richest people in America...business owners and corporate execs and others who manage to manipulate deals (ie: cheat other people).

And how has that worked out this past 30 years since Reagan...and especially since Bush2? And now, Obama is not much better.

The trend by businesses has been to lay people off and export their jobs overseas and squeeze them out of wages and benefits. They are not job creators...except for the low paying jobs overseas. In America, they are job destroyers. And they have spent the last 30 years with favored tax status full of loop holes so that many corporations don't even pay any taxes at all...and it wasn't because they created jobs in America.

It's time we stopped the hemorrhaging of jobs and money out of the pockets of the people who can least afford it. It is high time we return to taxing the most wealthy people in this country and stopping the outsourcing of our jobs.

All that money going to the wealthy, who can well afford the extra taxation, is just a total waste and is resulting in a total wrecking of our economy and overall well being of the majority of Americans.

firedancer's picture
firedancer 1 year 43 weeks ago
#10

Until we get money out of politics, we can expect more of the same despicable behavior from our elected politicians, who will strip every cent out of programs the poor and middle class have paid into. And then these same bought off politicians will pay back their benefactors with what they've stolen from hard-working Americans.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 1 year 43 weeks ago
#11

The new Speaker of the House.......Eric Cantor..... lazily whined about the so called Obama Welfare State today. Let's be clear about the definition of welfare state.....a state in which the welfare of its citizens, with regard to employment, medical care, SOCIAL SECURITY, etc. is considered to be the responsibility of collectively, "We the People," and this is achieved by electing a smaller group made up of, the same, "We the People." This smaller group is trusted with the responsiblity to carry out these mandates....... 99.9% are happy!

As one of, "We the People," I believe Cantor's PLAN BILLIONAIRE STATE.....a state in which the exploitation of a powerless and frightened citizenry by an empowered few leads to a concentration of wealth so extreme that collapse of the state becomes inevitable. Violent anarchy becomes the result and no one is able to pursue happiness. "PLAN B" fits such a scenario even though its not extreme enough for Cantor.

Global's picture
Global 1 year 43 weeks ago
#12

You are a Keynesian fool if you think government spending is the way to prosperity. We have been doing that for four years --- it does not work. Don't you understand the simple laws of economics, if you keep and have your own money to invest, and spend that will also create demand and job creation. Try getting out of the liberal echo chamber and learn from Milton Friedman, Austrian economics, free market capitalism etc... But of you are a confirmed socialist nun of that maters because your whole philosophy is for the collective and the almighty big government as your savior. The sovergnty if the individual is not important.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#13
Quote Kend:"Talking to my American freinds I can't seem to find anyone who can tell me what the plan is for jump starting the economy. Can anyone here?"

It looks to me that the plan is to quietly murder everyone who can't afford the price of staying alive (by just letting some people die of treatable and preventable diseases)...mostly old people on Social Security and Medicare or those who do not yet qualify for those yet but are unemployed and can't afford the healthScare premiums...so they have to pay cash. And they usually bill you for way more than they would bill an insurance company. But, I believe that unless you are "covered" under a healthScare plan, and you have to pay cash, you will not get the healthcare you are paying for anyway.

I believe there is a concerted effort, on behalf of doctors (bullied by the insurance companies) to take the money but avoid any actual preventative actions...like writing necessary prescriptions...like doing the necessary testing...scans..or operations..that it would take to prevent serious fatal medical conditions later on. They will keep "milking" you for any cash they can get but they won't treat you. Like they are punishing you for not participating in their very costly healthScare scams.

So, if they manage to knock off millions of old people, they don't have to worry about making good on Social Security or Medicare. But, the problem is that they would still have massive Pentagon spending and still have the massive economic problems we have today...only those in the Military Industrial Complex will be a whole lot richer. They'd still have massive banking and Wall Street corruption in Casino Capitalism and they will still have a ruinous economy as these criminals continue to hold their hands out to the Government for bailouts.

Maybe what we need is another Monica Lewinski-like scandal that saved us from trashing Social Security to Casino Capitalism during Bill Clinton's Presidency.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#14
Quote Global:"You are a Keynesian fool if you think government spending is the way to prosperity. We have been doing that for four years --- it does not work."

Haven't you forgotten the previous 8 years of the Bush Administration that preceded the Obama Administration? Have you forgotten about the massive waste of money that went down the Pentagon rabbit hole during the Bush regime's reign? All of that was quite unnecessary; and, we had a surplus during the Clinton Presidency that was squandered on wasteful warfare.

It was the bastions of Lassez Faire Capitalism that stole from the well being of most Americans when they manufactured the new Pearl Harbor attacks on 911 and lied us into illegal invasions of the Middle East where they massacred hundreds of thousands of civilians including thousands of children.

Obama is merely an extension of the Bush Administration so don't single him out. He's just part of the problem and a Republican in his place would have been much worse. The real problem is that both the Democrat and Republicans are on the same side of the crooked nickel. And trying to blame Obama, while ignoring what the Republicans did during the Bush years, is just obfuscating the truth.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#15

Our "big government" is not your "big government"! Our big government builds bridges, schools, and protects us from the capitalist wolves who would devour us in an instant.

Your big government does just the opposite...in addition to wasting lots of money on the Pentagon...on killing people...on spying on people..even, and especially, on it's own citizens.

Your big government specializes in supporting and encouraging corruption...our big government fights corruption and puts corrupt bullies into prison.

Those who generate propaganda to manipulate people into acting against the people's best interests have skillfully manipulated the language and meanings of words...like "government".

Just as now, some people are trying to manipulate the meaning of "we the earners". And how does one really "earn" over $250,000/year? They don't "earn" it...they "steal" it by manipulating other people out of their hard-EARNED money. Workers EARN their money. Manipulators STEAL their money.

Reagan was nothing but just another idiot actor who was taken advantage of by ruthless manipulators. I doubt he even knew what the heck he was saying most of the time...just acting...reading lines he was given to read...by the manipulators. "Speed it up!" Donald Regan demanded of Reagan during a speech. Yeah, we know who the real manipulators were. And Reagan wasn't the last of the idiots who were manipulated in that office of the President. We are about to see the latest one, who will sell us out, manipulated by ruthless criminals...just as other Presidents were....even Bush2. You don't think Bush2 was smart enough to be behind 911 do you? But, I guess if you think OBL was you couldn't even suspect that it was way bigger than OBL or Bush2.

ken ware's picture
ken ware 1 year 43 weeks ago
#16

Kend - As usual you have put your foot in your mouth, much like global has done today. Take a short trip to Southern California and you will see the shopping malls packed with people that are actually spending money! Perhaps it is the snow and bad weather you brought with you from Canada, that frozen land of the North, that is keeping people in. Our economy is picking up and people here are celebrating life and the Holidays. My brother lives in Avondale Az., why I still cannot figure out, but he says the stores and malls are packed in Phoenix! So maybe it is the older people in Scottsdale that are not up to getting out and around. I have had a great day today with great news about my new expected grandson, so I am not in the mood for challenging you or that other Republican puppet Global!

Palindromedary - Thanks for setting Kend and Global straight on the narrow minded comments they have made today. Boehner and the Republicans are trying their damndest not to acknowledge the fact that taxing those making over $250,000 a year or more is a good idea with merit. They have come up with a figure of a $1,000,000 or more for taxing the wealthiest and it will not fly with the American people who see what they are really trying to protect, it is their own political asses. I just hope Obama has the guts to hold out and demand what is right for the American economy. And the lame attempt of the Republicans to cut out any tax deductions for the middle class is only going to sink their pitiful attempt to claim they are for cutting taxes on everyone. Everyone, meaning the wealthiest Americans, who can afford to pay their fair share of the tax burden. And the lie that the wealthy will create jobs if they could only keep their taxes low, so they can generate all the jobs needed to recover, no longer holds any credibility with the citizens that have seen the wealth of the rich grow while the rest of the nation stagnates. I just hope the Republicans are not so stupid as to let the economy fail while they bargain for tax breaks for their masters...

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 1 year 43 weeks ago
#17

Do you ever listen to Thom Hartmann?

He repeatedly tells us what needs to be done to stimulate the economy. He provides a lot of historical data to support his suppositions.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#18
Quote Ken Ware:" I just hope Obama has the guts to hold out and demand what is right for the American economy."

I hope so too...but he's already weakened his position by indicating he will give in, at least partially, to their demands. After all the "party of 'NO'" did in Obama's first term...Obama was well within his rights to demand the Republicans don't get anything their way on this Fiscal Cliff fiasco.

I'm happy to hear that everything is going well with your soon-to-be grandson! Wish you all the best!

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 1 year 43 weeks ago
#19

I'm not sure if Arizona's governor is one of those Republicanswho refused stimulus money but their congressmen blocked the Jobs (Infrastructure) Bill. Work is what puts money in people's pockets and causes them to spend - and then other people have jobs as a result and others as a result of that and so on - much more so than a tax cut, especially in times like these.

What is it with you, Global, Mauiman and whoever else and your obsession with tax cuts? Have you formed a support group and seen a psychiatrist about it? Perhaps group therapy.

Or are you just shillin' like a villin'?

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#20

And so now I am hearing on CNN all this business about Boner losing the vote by other Republicans who refuse to even consider any tax increases of the rich and infamous. CNN is playing this up like Obama won, Boner lost, poor Boner whats a poor dog to do without his boner? And now, they say...Obama will continue trying to hash this thing out trying to get an agreement. Before Obama supporters and Boner haters jump up and down for joy...realize that Obama has already indicated that Social Security is on the chopping block which should never have been put there to begin with. And, he has already proposed raising the tax bar from $250,000 to $400,000. Unless Obama pulls back out of any negotiations threatening Social Security, as he darn well should, lots of people are going to suffer. The Fiscal Cliff was a contrivance all along to trick us out of our Social Programs. That's like working all your life and putting all your savings into a bank savings deposit and then when it is time for retirement the bank says...sorry, there's nothing there for you...the money's gone...we spent it on luxury items and we found tax loopholes so we don't even have to pay taxes on them. Here..you pay all the taxes...we're too good for that. Almost time to break out the pitchforks and guillotines, folks!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 1 year 43 weeks ago
#21

Palindromedary - Thank you.

Well it is well after 8 p.m. on the West Coast and the House has gone home for the Holidays. It is apparent who the Republicans represent and it is not the working or middle class of America. They realize it is going to hurt the poor and the middle class Americans a lot more than it will their masters in the upper financial class of America. The wealthy will not even notice when workers are laid off and social programs for the less fortunate will be cut back. It is ironic that these men and women who were elected by the people to serve as our representatives in Congress actually work only for the top two percent of our nation. Boehner is more concerned with keeping his position in the House than he is with those Republicans who voted for him. Not all Republicans are wealthy, but you would never guess that by the way they protect those tax cuts for the richest while many of them may be looking for a new job in Jan. I could understand it if their theory that tax cuts for the wealthiest has turned into new jobs for the workers of all types in our country. But any idiot can see that if that were true we would or should have seen a major change in the job creation the Republicans claim tax cuts for the wealthy provide. My son in law is a Republican and my daughter is a Democrat with a capital D and neither she nor I can understand the reasoning by the right! He states over and over poor people don't create jobs the wealthy do. And my reply is where are the jobs that should have been created by all the tax cuts that have taken place? His reply is, well it would have been worse without the tax cuts. How do you reason with that mindset? So we just accept and love the guy and blame it on his parents! Ha. I have come to the conclusion that generally whatever political party you were born into is generally the political party you end up supporting! I see it in the terms of whatever faith you were born into is the faith you usually follow. Depending on how strong of an influence it had on your parents and thus was handed down to you. Otherwise, how do you explain these people sticking too and supporting a belief such as supporting tax breaks for the wealthiest at any cost that will have a negative effect on their life? My father use to have a simple one word explanation, brainwashed...there are exceptions to that idea, but not many.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 1 year 43 weeks ago
#22

Exactly, our big government is DEMOCRATIC government which means it is of and for the people which means it's a good thing.

Their big government is anti democratic which means it is of and for a small elite which is nerfarious.

Like all liars, what they accuse others of is more true about themselves.

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 1 year 43 weeks ago
#23

"Kensyian fool" is an oxymoron and you are not truthful, your accusations are wild. I would think you were unhinged if I didn't know you were a shill.

We've heard of nothing but Milton Friedmann for decades. Haven't you heard that he's been thoroughly discredited? It's Milton Friedman's Chicago School that caused the crash of 2008. Now you say the same philosophy and economic method is surreally going to fix the crisis that it caused.

Do you know who controls the House of Representatives, the house of Congress that must initiate ALL spending legislation? Have you heard of someone named John Boehner? Do you know what a filibuster is? Do you know that the usual number of Senate filibusters for a legislative term is less than 5 but in this last one there were nearly 400? Do you know what obstructionism is?

If you think government has been spending these last four years ... Whatever you, Kend and Mauiman are smoking ... I DON'T WANT ANY!

Obama's Jobs/Infrastructure Bill was blocked from the outset. He even broke it up into its componant parts and tried to get each one passed individually and the Republicans refused. Republican governors refused stimulus money so, of course, the economy recovered only a very little and only very slowly. It's the LACK OF GOVERNMENT SPENDING THESE LAST FOUR YEARS THAT HASN'T WORKED!

I, sir, am a Libertarian Socialist (that usually means Anarchist or Anarcho Communist or Anarcho Syndicallist but doesn't necessarilly in my case) and I do, in fact, think that the sovreignity of the individual is not important when it harms the collective. In other words, your rights can not be at the expense of the rights of others. Otherwise, though, I think the sovreignity of the individual is VERY important. I believe that in a democratic society government is a good thing. Genuinely democratic government is the collective will of the people, serves the people, is ours, is of us, IS us and that we have EVERY RIGHT to expect it to serve us and provide for us in any way we might see fit. I think it is profoundly UNDEMOCRATIC for government to serve 1 or 2% of the people at the expense of evereyone else. I do not believe in SPECIAL RIGHTS FOR THE 1% OR 2%.

A legitimate function of government is to protect the weak from the strong and the rightists and capitalist libertarians who are against government are so because they are the strong and they want their rights to be granted at the expense of everyone else's. They want to be free to abuse the weak. They want to be free to exploit, enslave, poison, injure and kill the weak and the not so strong at their pleasure. They don't want any stinkin' labor, environmental or product safety laws and the like. They are really not against government but against DEMOCRATIC government. They want a small elite to govern and effect a tyranny over everyone else. They favor all the legislation that curtails or eradicates civil liberties and negates constitutional rights that passed of late. They also want to privatize government to make it less accountable to and less of and for the people and make it the personal property of a small group of individuals, so creating an elite feudal aristocracy.

I believe very much in the sovreignity of the individual but I believe as the great anarchist Emma Goldman did that there is no conflict or incompatability between the individual and the collective. It's like they told you in school, "Democratic government makes us ALL free."

nora's picture
nora 1 year 43 weeks ago
#24

Boehner is a blip. Only Washington cares about these "will he keep his job or not" in The Beltway dramatics. If he loses his job, he's not going to ever starve or lose his home or eat petfood. He is just one man who, as a Washington official, has it made on Easy Street for life.

I'm much more worried about Nancy Pelosi (DLCer that she is) saying that the Obama Social Security Cuts are going to be an improvement that "strengthens" Social Security! EGAD! Doublespeak like her words means doom for millions.

Check it out:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/nancy-pelosi-social-security_n_2333285.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#25

What a bunch of baloney the so-called "chained CPI" smoke-and-mirrors doublespeak they are using:

"The chained CPI works by assuming that when the price of a product, such as beef, gets too high, consumers don't keep paying the higher prices. Instead, the model predicts they will switch to something cheaper, such as chicken, keeping their cost of living lower and leading to a lower rate of inflation, as measured by the chained CPI. The lower rate of inflation would mean a downward adjustment in cost of living, and thus stingier benefits."
Link here

What really happens is the price of beef still goes up (because products rarely go down as much as they go up) and the chicken goes up because now there is an increased demand for chicken. If we really had true competition then perhaps the price of beef would go down..maybe...then again, maybe, farmers would just shoot their cows and burn them in order to keep the prices high. Then there is the monopoly that many of these chain supermarkets run that prevents competition. The price of chicken would go up for sure and then people would have to eat cat food...then cat food would go up..ad infinitum. Maybe they'll eventually manufacture Soylent Green from all of the people who died of starvation and sicknesses...but then they'd still keep prices high even then. They are going to keep squeezing us until we eventually "squeeze" back. If you know what I mean. ;-|

Look what is happening right now in our supermarkets... despite the fact that more and more people are out of work and can't afford to pay the high prices for food...the supermarkets are still raising their prices. I find it difficult to walk through the isles of Safeway and other major supermarkets because of their ridiculous prices. Add to that the price of gasoline and everything else how can they seriously talk to us about making cuts to Social Security cost of living allowances using such a ridiculous model?

Nancy Palosi is a wacko...it's time she retires...maybe we can help her with that on election day. What wimps we have for Democrats!

No Fraud's picture
No Fraud 1 year 43 weeks ago
#26

Wall St. Banks, and Military Industrial Complex Contractors, all one in the same....War Profiteers!

OBL...Had nothing to do with it.

No Fraud's picture
No Fraud 1 year 43 weeks ago
#27

Squeeze back indeed!!!

Are we ready to organize....Occupy Wall St. failed because they did not get organized. Sure a whole bunch of people showed-up and "occupied" and kinda-sorta got a message going, but thats where it ended. Unless we as a collective can organize; create a manafesto, appoint speakers and leaders, and stand our ground, we will never successfully meet our ends.

We the People must remember that our obligation is NOT to the Government; our obligation is to the principles that our country is suppose to stand for. The Government is an artificial creation. Mind the Declaration of Independence...Governments are set up by the people to acheive certain ends; the equal right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. When Governments become destructive of those ends it is the RIGHT of The People to alter or abolish the Government.

"Obedience to a Government is the sign of a Totalitarian State." H. Zinn

Mark Saulys's picture
Mark Saulys 1 year 43 weeks ago
#28

Democrats are not wimps. They are shills for business.

ragingdemo's picture
ragingdemo 1 year 43 weeks ago
#29

Dear Thom, While I do agree with you on most of your opinions about our Government and the complete lack of any real {people} representation save for the few like Senator Bernie Sanders and the like I find myself going back to the same subject. I'm amazed and deeply disgusted that grown educated mostly white older men elected to offices and places in Government could allow a few much older criminally insane by now Mega wealthy Family's rule over us unchecked and out of control . We know for fact today that the last president to tell them NO MORE was JFK and for his insult to them they murdered him and many other's and killing anyone else who could ever rise to challenge them. It's NOT about republican or democrate it's about there unchecked greed and the control it buys and the lust for more that has our United States nearly bankrupted just sit back and look at what these people are responsible for thom , My God do you think this has all been just some great coincidence ? It all comes back to the same thing thom and NOTHING is going to change I don't care who you vote for or what bill get's passed just take a look at how many bill's get passed that are supposed to be great for Americans except they NEVER are in fact how many have not worked to undo every people friendly bill passed . Thom your an educated Man please tell Me you see this and that your aware of it. I just can't understand how these elected officials go along with this while being a total hypocrite living two lives as they and there famly members reap the huge rewards of political life and the connections from it. The Kennedy's couldn't go along with it and no doubt knew the penalty they were deeply honorable Men with vision thom but were flat out assassinated , and for that total sacrifice we dishonored them and allow there murderers to continue the rape & plunder of what was once a proud & good nation , just a handful of elderly rotten scumbags run ruffshot over every aspect of life on earth but that's what happens to people when they are allowed to get that powerful . Did they leave anything behind for the betterment of mankind NO SIR they have rewitten the history books so they seem to have played NO part in anything or wrong doing but when you dig a little bit you can plainly see the connections to everything even our wonderful education system was designed by them they look to control food and water but what I can't understand is how we don't just kick in there doors and arrest them ..The shear blatant arrogance of Obama make's want to revolt with vulgar anger , What is wrong with these idiots that they think there plan hasn't been tried before in history with the results the same time after time . It has got to be ego and blind arrogance that make's these fools think they covered all there bases. We must have a Grass roots movement that pull's the covers off these Lowlife bastards the clock is ticking friends.....

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 1 year 43 weeks ago
#30

It is okay to walk through the aisles of Safeway, but please do not buy anything.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#31

Chuckle: What little I do decide to buy...I carefully scrutinize the receipt and often times I'll find that I was either double charged for an item or the price was not the "sale" price. They are sneaky that way...all of those Supermarkets (or any merchants) have to be watched...but if you are in a hurry...and don't watch what is being rung up, you will likely never know you got cheated. I lost count of all the times some cashier tried to short change me when I pay cash for something.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#32

No Fraud: right on, that's right...or if OBL did have anything at all to do with it...it was at the behest of those who planned it from the US, Israel, with the help of Pakistan ISI..and even, perhaps, elements within Saudi Arabia. OBL was still a CIA asset right up until 911.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 1 year 43 weeks ago
#33

Mark Saulys: That's probably quite true...but calling them wimps makes me feel better. Kind of like calling the so-called 19 Arab hijackers "cowards"..I guess. I don't know how many times I've heard people call them that despite the fact that it would have taken some pretty brave (or crazy) people, knowing they were about to die along with all those other people they were about to kill. Contrast that with another misused term that many Americans often use to describe a US soldier who murders civilians using drones or helicopter gunships with very little likelihood that they, themselves, would ever be in danger, are called "heroes". Not many Americans would be brave (or crazy) enough to do such a thing as strap on an explosive vest or crash into tall buildings. Yet those same people who misused the "coward" name must have gotten some satisfaction out of it even though it was like calling a cat a dog.

I think, if there even were Arab hijackers, that they were "patsies" set up to take the blame...and couldn't even have steered those planes to their targets because they weren't skilled enough pilots (couldn't even very skillfully fly the small aircraft they were "trained" on) and because those planes that hit the WTC towers and the Pentagon were electronically hijacked and guided to their targets...just like any other drone or guided missile....which is the reason why they actually hit their targets. And the one that hit the Pentagon may not even have been a plane at all but a missile. The last plane that supposedly crashed in Pennsylvania could easily have been a flub that had to be aborted and shot out of the air...there was no wreckage to speak of...it just ...disappeared.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 1 year 43 weeks ago
#34

Global, it seems all you conservatives can offer this discussion are those same tired old talking points robber barrons have hammered at us for decades: that a society serving certain basic needs of everyone's (like medical clinics & hospitals, roads & bridges, post offices, schools & libraries) is BAD, that only the "fittest" should survive, and only rich people are entitled to anything. Beyond Ayn Randian platitudes and attitude, what else is there except snide remarks about everyone you hate? You call people names and make fun of them like petulant schoolboys. While hardly informative or thought provoking, it does illustrate the mentality we're all up against under corporate fascism. As always, what's conspicuously lacking is accuracy and substance.

- Aliceinwonderland

chuckle8's picture
chuckle8 1 year 43 weeks ago
#35

My main concern with safeway is how they hammer unions.

In LA they were the instigators of a prolonged strike a couple of years ago.

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to understand how to respond when they’re talking about public issues with coworkers, neighbors, and friends. This book explores some of the key perspectives behind his approach, teaching us not just how to find the facts, but to talk about what they mean in a way that people will hear."