We Don't Need The Trump Wall - But We'll Be Paying For It

It turns out Mexico won't be paying for that wall after all - American taxpayers will.

It also turns out that that wall really isn't going to be much of a wall at all - at least not the "big, beautiful" wall that Trump talked about on the campaign trail.

This was probably always the case, but now it's pretty much 100 percent certain.

According to multiple reports - the Trump transition team and House Republicans are now working on a "border security" deal that would fall well short of what Trump promised time and time again while running for president.

The plan is to invoke a 2006 law that OK'd 700 miles of fencing along the southern border - most of which is already in place - and use it to add some more "fencing and technology" along the border.

That's it.

No big billion-dollar Great Wall of China style colossus - just a few more miles of barbed wire fenced added to what we have right now - and you and me are going to have to pay for it.

This is a classic Trump bait and switch - no matter what he says on Twitter about how "any money spent on building the Great Wall... will be paid back by Mexico later".

But hypocrisy is just a part of it.

The truth is that we don't need any border wall - whether it's the Great Wall that Trump promised on the campaign trail, or the few miles of barbed wire he's pushing for right now.

Border crossings are way down - and a good percentage of undocumented immigrants don't even come to the US by sneaking over from Mexico - they overstay their visas after flying into big cities like New York and Los Angeles.

So - is Trump going to build a wall at Terminal A at JFK Airport?

Of course not.

All this talk about a wall is just the velvet glove around the iron fist of Republican racism.

It's way to blame poor brown people for a situation that we could easily solve if we started doing what Reagan stopped doing back in the 1980s: prosecute largely wealthy white employers who hire undocumented immigrants.

Comments

Ou812's picture
Ou812 6 weeks 1 day ago
#1

It's way to blame poor brown people for a situation that we could easily solve if we started doing what Reagan stopped doing back in the 1980s: prosecute largely wealthy white employers who hire undocumented immigrants.

Well Mr. Hartman, I see racism is alive and well in the progressive movement.

Hephaestus's picture
Hephaestus 6 weeks 1 day ago
#2

Racism is a polemc used by both sides of an argument... it's a current buzz word

However, America is still a racist country despite decades of struggle to change or remove

For example, republican obstruction of the current administration is simply based upon the fact that Obama is not white

Tsultrim Melong's picture
Tsultrim Melong 6 weeks 1 day ago
#3

Some of us always knew it had to be a complete hoax/lie/stupid idea/whatever, didn't we? But a bunch of people in this country wanted so badly to believe it, as though this giant wall paid for by the "offending" country would solve anything?

Let's ask Donald if he'll sign an ironclad contract with the American people that if Mexico hasn't paid for the wall or fence within four years, Donald will cover its cost instead of us, the taxpayers. Then we'll see whether or not he follows through or dodges.

The whole notion of a wall seems like a dodge anyway. Why aren't we addressing the facets of whatever problem is arising from undocumented immigrants? Why aren't we coming up with something that keeps families together, promotes a path to citizenship?

cccccttttt 6 weeks 1 day ago
#4

The solution starts with an id system for US citizens that can not be counterfitted.

Then require all employers to use E-verify.

Then have madatory jail time and large fines for business owners using illegal labor.

And put in place a high tech zone that is impassable.

ct

PhilipHenderson's picture
PhilipHenderson 6 weeks 1 day ago
#5

The reason undocumented people come to the United States is because American employers seek lower wage employees. Likewise, our war on illegal drugs produced a black market for criminals. American citizens desire so much of the illegal drugs and we are willing to pay the price. It is our demand that creates the drug cartels. Included in the price are murders, bribery, extortion, and corruption of elected officials. The workforce of undocumented people and the drug wars are inspired by Americans who want either cheap labor or illegal drugs. Each problem is created by our desires.

Uncle Ralph's picture
Uncle Ralph 6 weeks 1 day ago
#6

If you look at some of the terrain along the border, a continuous 20-foot high wall would be akin to the Great Wall of China and probably visible from space when finished. Then people would just be smuggled in boats like people from Cuba and drugs from Colombia have been for decades. It would be a $multi-billion farce, but I think we all knew that all along. The reason the Chaney-Rove administration proposed a 700-mile fence to "protect" a 2000-mile border was because the oligarchy, who own the United States, make a lot of money off of the availability of illegal (read: barely more than slave) labor. It's the trained-to-be-xenophobic low-information voters in the rural Midwest and rust belt and maybe the south who want a wall. But they only want a wall symbolically; they wouldn't actually want or apply for any of the jobs traditionally done by illegals. The oligarchy has never wanted a wall and they knew they weren't getting one with Trump. Promising stuff that you have no intention of delivering is part of the Art of the Deal, akin to Hillary's assertion that sometimes you need to have a public platform and a separate private one. We voted for Trump's public platform, but we'll be getting his private one---if that.

Oldskoold's picture
Oldskoold 6 weeks 1 day ago
#7

The sad thing is: the most segregated day and hours of the week remains to be on Sunday between 10 and 12 AM. As long as we ignore that the Republicans/Fascist stole God and don't call them out on that, it will only get worse. I really hate to say this but; I saw it happening and did nothing because the last time I darkened a church door "conservative mantras" were being preached so I just didn't go back. This was the mid 80's. I can only imajine what it's like now. Blind faith and, quite frankly, brainwashing is what they are all about now. And; tax free too! Looks like they could at least tithe to further the commons! I'm not an athiest, just a believer in the real God! Separation of Church and State must be watched closely, especially now!

Edward J. Dodson's picture
Edward J. Dodson 6 weeks 1 day ago
#8

The United States of America has never been a full employment society. The reason is simple. Our systems of law and taxation are of Old World (i.e., British) origins. Although the founding generation discarded the ideas of hereditary power, aristocracy and titles, the source of that power -- landed privilege -- remained. In fact, most of the founding leaders engaged extensively in land speculation and acquired landed estates dwarfing those of their Old World counterparts. And, as the population increased and moved westward, those who entered the Federal Congress and state governments followed in the footsteps of Washington and so many others who sought their fortunes by acquiring huge tracts of the public domain at very low cost, expecting to sell to settlers at a huge profit. Politicians also profited by giving away even more land to the railroads and other corporations.

By the time the frontier closed at the end of the 19th century, the basis for many of the fortunes gained during the "gilded age" of unbridled capitalism was deeply entrenched. The law secured and protected monopoly privileges for the few.

The one writer with sufficient courage and intestinal fortitude to take on this system directly was the newspaper editor and political economist Henry George. George attacked monopoly and landed privilege with a vengeance. While he came to head a potent social and political movement, his early death at age 58 in 1897 removed the movement's charasmatic leader. Although thousands continued the struggle in the U.S., in the U.K., in Australia and other countries, the power of landed interests has only increased. Landed privilege survived and survives to this day as the primary cause of poverty and the concentration of income and wealth that plagues our society. Henry George put forward a solution that was both peaceful and effective, but it never acquired sufficient public support to be widely adopted. In fact, at least in the U.S. land speculation seems to be hard-wired in the DNA of our behavior, despite the fact that this very behavior is destructive.

stecoop01's picture
stecoop01 6 weeks 1 day ago
#9

That fence that is meant to keep illegal immigrants out, will, in a few years, be there to keep American citizens in.

Kend's picture
Kend 6 weeks 1 day ago
#10

Well said ct. most of the employers are not wealthy white guys. They are middle class guys taking advantage of cheap labour. America is the only country in the world that allows this, I don't get it. Illegals just drive down wages and take jobs away from Americans. Not to mention what it costs tax payers to educate their children and take care of there medical needs. Trump is right "America first".

dr818dr's picture
dr818dr 6 weeks 1 day ago
#11

Regardless of whether it's a "great" wall, double fencing or electronic monitoring - probably a combination of all - there is still a very high need for better border security. Just because Mexicans may be crossing in smaller numbers they and many others now even those from Africa and Asia are crossing that border. Wait for the next recession in Mexico and the numbers will climb again.

Border crossings were up 15% this year and the estimated costs whatever the solution(s) of 38 billion is a third of what illegal aliens cost American taxpayers. What cost can you put on those killed by these people?

While you are right that we should be cracking down on those who hire illegal aliens that is only a part of the solution as many are hired by local businesses that fall under the radar. Deporting most who have come here illegally, no matter how long it takes, also sends the message that if you come here when/if you are caught regardless of if you committed any other crimes you will not be allowed to stay.

For those who cry, "Are you going to rip their families apart" don't worry. Their citizen children are also citizens of the country of one of their parents. For those who want to put them on a pathway to citizenship rewarding bad behavior (illegal in most of these cases) is the exact wrong message to send. If these people are legalized to work they will look for better jobs from companies that won't hire them now, they will work for less (although it will be a raise for them) and the jobs they left will just look for more illegal aliens who will work for less than minimum wage, no benefits and no overtime.

Just one number for those who think these people contribute more than they take. In California according to State Senator Ricardo Lara (his parents came here illegally) they pay 2.2 billion a year in all taxes and fees. According to the California Department of Education there are 1.4 million K-12 students who need ESL courses. Some are legal immigrants but some children born here of illegal parents don't need ESL. So lets estimate that 1 million are either children here illegally or citizen children. Not counting local funds, federal funds, breakfast and lunch programs and special state allocations the state pays 13K to educate each of these kids. That's 13 billion a year vs 2.2 billion in all payments. Add in health care,all the infrastructure costs, police, fire, judicial and the list goes on and on and the state runs a deficit of over 30 billion a year paying for illegal immigration.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 6 weeks 1 day ago
#12

I run guns south and drugs north in an old Willys Jeep, so a wall is really gonna suck big league! It's already hard enough trying to crawl through the damn arroyos! Although, just barbwire would be cool -- an Army jeep can get through that, no problem. Surveillance cameras? Easy -- just shoot 'em out. Might have a few extra guards to shoot at too, but that's normal nowadays, no big deal. Hey, I ain't no rapist though!

Republicans and billionaires ... always screwing with small businesses and hard-working little people!

Could be some advantages, I suppose. If it's made out of cement, can you imagine the miles and miles of really cool gang graffiti? And maybe it'll make it harder to move factories and such. Trying to tow a big 'ol factory building down south and -- WHAM -- a gawdam wall! That rascally Trumpy dummy dude might be just a tad bit smarter than the whole entire world gives him credit for.

Of course, I'll probably lose my Odamnbamacare, Medi-aides, Medi-scare, and Socialism Suckurity, and what not, to pay for the head twit's wall/fence/whatever. But then, hell, ya don't live all that long in this business anyway. At least my taxes won't be paying for the stupid thing -- ha ha, because I don't pay any f--king taxes! Just like my man, Trumpster the Dumbster.

He's got a really good sense of humor too. Get this ... he said ... no wait, let me get the punch line out before you start laughing. He said ... ha ha ... he said ... damn this is funny! He said ... MEXICO is gonna pay for it! Hotdamn, that's good!

He needs to go on SNL. Oh wait ... Alec Baldwin already has that gig. Too bad, Trump would be super funny playing himself.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 6 weeks 1 day ago
#13

@ Kend #10 & dr818dr #11:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM5eiunbDzQ

Enjoy!

FYI: Obama deported more undocumented immigrants than all the other presidents put together, going all the way back to Almighty Saint Reagan, who granted amnesty. Today, after eight years of a Democratic administration, more people are moving from the U.S. to Mexico than from Mexico to the U.S.

(Hey, dr818dr, punch that into your old "Texas Instrument" pocket calculator -- which evidently needs a new battery. Your numbers are wildly off into the weeds. What, did you flunk out of remedial math class? Put the moonshine down, son, and step slowly away from the keyboard.)

So ... it seems that Obama has turned the tide. Yea! Any loud hoorays or glowing accolades? Knock, knock ... hello? Nope ... just crickets.

I do agree, however, that it's not an "illegal" immigrant problem as much as an "illegal" employer problem. Most of these reprobates are Republicans, by the way, who hate unions, livable wages, and American workers -- par for the course.

They hate those little brown bastards too; that is, unless they can employ them as slaves. Another corrective action that Ronnie Raygun took was to throw a bunch of the Republican big-bad-boss-men into the poky, which significantly reduced the number of illegal crossings. Go figure.

So, there ya go; quit taking it out on the already victimized working slaves and go after your own "illegal" Republican butt-buddies! For instance, like Trump, the fake-hair clown who loves to employ the "rapists and murderers" for low wages in his exclusive hotels and golf courses to serve his wealthy clients (and lien holders) their caviar and martinis.

And, please, find it in your heart to stop referring to people as "illegal aliens." Like the rest of us, most of them are just struggling souls living on a harsh planet trying to support their families. They should be accorded the dignity that all fellow human beings deserve.

Somebody's life should not be thought of as "illegal" -- their actions, perhaps, but not the person. "Undocumented immigrant" is an accurate enough term, and not so denigrating. Yes, a humane approach is also politically correct, regardless how much Republicans seem to hate that phrase these days.

Unless, of course, some damn libtard disrespects one of their sacred cows. Then they're all about political correctness -- as indignant as a four-year old shamed by Alec Baldwin on national TV. Not funny!

Empathy is a virtue in actual everyday life, not just an abstract concept preached from your pulpit on Sunday morning, only to be forgotten by Sunday afternoon.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 6 weeks 1 day ago
#14

It appears this is going to be a eight year boom for therapists. It is interesting how every sentence uttered by yet to take office Trump is being explained and interpreted by the leftie/socialist media, that same group of talking heads that claimed Trump got elected by too much coverage by the leftie/socialist media.

Go Donald, turn twitter into short fireside chats followed only by those idiots who are too stupid to turn their twitter account off.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 6 weeks 23 hours ago
#16

(Dianereynolds - #14)

"It appears this is going to be a eight year boom for the rapists."

..., odd, I was thinking the same thing ....

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 6 weeks 23 hours ago
#17

k. allen
"It appears this is going to be a eight year boom for the rapists."
..., odd, I was thinking the same thing ....

Very clever, but I suspect that Trumps Supreme Court nominees, the 14 Federal Appeals court appointments, and the 90 or so apointed Federal Judges may not be as lenient as those Obama put on the bench.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 6 weeks 21 hours ago
#18

I had to share that - not to be clever - up all night working, that's what I saw when I glanced at the page ... I picked my jaw up off the floor, did a triple-take, and realized I had misread. Still, that was my reaction (( couldn't believe you actually said _that_ !! ))

I have _no_ doubt "that Trump's Supreme Court nominees, the 14 Federal Appeals court appointments, and the 90 or so appointed Federal Judges will 'spare not the rod' - in the extreme.

I wonder how they will decide around the obstruction of all those unconfirmed Supreme Court nominees, Federal Appeals court appointments, and appointed Federal Judges nominated by President Obama over the last 8 years?

Oh, it probably won't come up ....

I really don't want to see judges that can be relied on to take one side or another in controversial cases. I want them to exercise conscience and integrity, and judge fairly, according to _all_ the facts pertaining to any one decision.

I know it doesn't always work that way, but hey, what can I say ... I'm off the grid, and out of the loop ... my only choice is to stand on the truth in my own life, and trust the wisdom that guides - full spectrum.

Still, I trust many are earnest individuals, sincere in their beliefs who have put in their time in the field and will do their best to hold the line in these changing times. I suspect this won't be easy for anyone - even those smooth operators who make it look so good (they think.)

I can't get into all these arguments. I have other work to do. I agree, the excuse making on one hand, and blaming on the other is like a dog chasing its tail.

It goes nowhere.

Still, far be it from me to cap a volcano. It's better to get it out of your system ... once the lava cools, it will fertilize the landscape of today.

Anyway, I can see why people are upset, and scared.

Why mock them? What does it accomplish?

k. allen's picture
k. allen 6 weeks 21 hours ago
#19

...?

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 6 weeks 19 hours ago
#20

k.allen: Why mock them? What does it accomplish?

Easy answer. The hundreds of excuses for their losses in the election aside, they won't stop telling anyone who will listen that the sky is falling. By that I mean scaring seniors with 50% cuts in their SS benefits, the total elimination of Medicare, etc. All BS and all made to divide and delegitimize the incoming Trump presidency. The more crying I hear the more energized I become.

I realize it accomplishes little but it gives many a punching bag and diverts their eating potato chips in their parents basement to key pounding.

You being off grid makes good sense. Peaceful and in control. Good for you.

stecoop01's picture
stecoop01 6 weeks 19 hours ago
#21

Why do so many people refer to Trumps term in office as "eight years"; a presidential term is only four years. And I don't think he'll last that long. I honestly believe ONE of THREE things will happen to Trump:

1. He'll be assassinated be extreme leftists.

2. He'll be impeached by extreme rightists.

3. The stress of the job will kill him or drive him to resign.

As for that border wall, what would be the point? Mexican drug runners have proven they have excellent tunneling technology. :-)

Ou812's picture
Ou812 6 weeks 18 hours ago
#22

@ 2 Hephaestus:

You verify my conclusion that progressives are racists. There are thousands of reasons someone could oppose Obama. Maybe they don't like his ideas, maybe it's because he's from Illinois, maybe, because he's a democrat, etc. etc. But you choose to pick the color of his skin as the reason for the opposition. Interesting, how it all comes down to skin color with you lefties.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 6 weeks 18 hours ago
#23

1. I heard the exact comments from the looney right when Obama was elected.

2. Trump resigns. Who becomes president?

Be very careful what you wish for.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 6 weeks 16 hours ago
#24

The low-intelligent, self-absorbed, juvenile Twitter troll about to soil the seat in the Oval Office is an old sweaty, puffy, out-of-shape, puss-gut man-child with the putrid stench of Tic Tacs and Kentucky Fried chicken on his breath, who openly loves to walk in on half-naked teenage girls in their locker room, to push married women up against the wall against their will, to stick his slimy tongue in their mouths, to grab pussies and fondle tits at will because that's his privilege as a wealthy white man, and to sexually rate his own daughter with the desire to date her.

This is the damn fool who can send armies anywhere in the world with his conflicted business interests at stake or launch nukes within minutes without any countervailing oversight whatsoever. This is the Commander in Chief who surrounds himself with "advisors" who tiptoe around, afraid of damaging his fragile ego.

This is the smarmy creep that Republican grannies -- who love to mock others, who maybe are only rated 2 or 3 at best on Trump's scale, who like their phalanx-symbol AR's, who probably secretly wish big-daddy Trump would grab their pussies, who are undoubtedly deluded by their own self-righteousness and false religious hypocrisy -- think is the great Saviour of the free world and God's gift to humanity.

This is the predatory sexual pervert they and their like-minded compatriots voted for, someone who sits in his underwear at three in the morning eating junk food, pounding on his greasy keyboard, insulting celebrities or anyone else who mocks or tries to constructively criticize him, tweeting inane, childish, misspelled comebacks that he thinks are sooo clever.

The 2016 election says more about the starry-eyed sycophants who voted for this degenerate than it does about him.

Or is all this a little too descriptive and overly politically incorrect for the delicate sensibilities of right-wingers who get (sexually?) energized by other people crying? Sorry, these are just the facts, ma'am. I report; you decide.

Happily, there's a helluva lot more fodder in the right-wing swamp ripe for irreverent mockery than there is in the real world. The Usurper to the Toy Throne and his naive blind followers should keep comedians and truth-tellers humming for the next four years, certainly not eight.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 5 weeks 6 days ago
#25

@deepspace

Your post is wonderful. Get that off your chest yet?

It will be interesting to see the level of respect given to President Trump from the leftie/socialist crowd. I noted Thom's comment that it is not his style to resort to name calling. Ya riggght. Rush Limpballs, Mitch McTurtle, small hands Trump, etc.

With your attitude,Trump's terms will be your worst nightmare. Exhibit A, yesterdays press conference where he called out the phonies that pushed known BS stories onto the front page or lead story, our host here no exception.

Fire away but I suspect you will only push yourself deeper into dispair and depression.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 5 weeks 5 days ago
#26

@ Dianereynolds

"...yesterdays press conference where he called out the phonies that pushed known BS stories onto the front page or lead story..."

Unbelievable! Does your hypocrisy have no bounds, ma'am?

How convenient that you've forgotten that your favorite Big Daddy pervert is the immature liar who earned his political bones with like-minded white bigots and racists by constantly hyping the "known BS" birther conspiracy theory every chance he got, keeping it on the front page of corporate media for years.

For a so-called "master" manipulator of promotional press coverage, your self-absorbed pathological narcissist sure seems awfully thin-skinned when asked the hard questions. Virtually everyone in the world with a brain knows your sexual predator with stunted emotional and mental development has no business being in that job.

Putin's poodle is completely out of his depth on the world stage, and his fragile ego melts away under the bright klieg lights for all to witness. That's why he doesn't like to hold press conferences, preferring instead to sit in his underwear at three in the morning, tweeting out disjointed, juvenile musings. It would all be quite laughable, if it weren't so sad.

This bigoted knucklehead and his groupie losers deserve the same respect that they have accorded Obama and the Democrats for the last eight years ... and every bit of name-calling that they themselves so adeptly heap on anyone who dares to challenge their pitiable idiocy.

Don't mistake a proper disgust for liars and hypocrites for despair and depression, as you so often do. Those are the projections from your own subconscious awareness, as the truth of who this man-child really is slowly dawns on you. Putin figured out your fool a long time ago, as have most other sentient beings. You and your fellow clueless trolls are way behind the curve.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 5 weeks 4 days ago
#27

At this point in time all I can do is laugh at your frustration. You have had weeks to accept President Trump and you continue to spiral deeper into depression. I wish you luck in your sessions.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 5 weeks 4 days ago
#28

Shrill cackling and clucking is not the same as laughing.

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