ANTI-SOCIALIST PLEDGE. Please take and pass on.

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CONSERVATIVE REAL AMERICAN SOCIALIST-FREE PURITY PLEDGE

Socialism; as defined by the Oxford American Dictionary;A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

I, ________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following:

I will testify to the destruction of 1st Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly being allowed to exercise my 1st Amendment Rights.

I will testify to the destruction of my 2nd Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly being allowed to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights by legally but brazenly brandishing unconcealed firearms in public.

I will foreswear the time-honored principles of fairness, decency, and respect by screaming unintelligible platitudes regarding tyranny, Nazi-ism, and socialism at public town halls while exercising my inalienable right to not know what any of these words actually mean.

I will not complain about any economic condition affecting my personal and/or financial well being that has resulted from any banking or investment activity that was unregulated by the Federal Government or committed in an environment of non-enforcement of existing Federal regulation including, but not limited to, reduction or loss of pension, loss of 401k or stock value, increase in interest payment, loss of real estate investment value, etc.

I will not take any funding in loans or otherwise from any nation that is a socialist democracy, such as Amsterdam, or totalitarian state such as Communist China, to finance new debt, or pay principle or interest on any portion of the 10 trillion dollars in debt accumulated from the budgets drawn up, approved by and signed into law by, any of the conservative administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush or George Bush.

I will allow my employer to mandate that I work any number of hours per week that a week may contain and to receive any amount of compensation that that employer sees fit to pay at or over 1 penny per hour worked so as to constitute a wage and not be described as slavery.

Also.

I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in or the consumption of any benefits derived from any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:

Social Security

Medicare/Medicaid

State Children’s Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP)

Police, Fire, and Emergency Services

US Postal Service

Roads and Highways including use of directional signs and/or traffic control devices such as lights

Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)

The US Railway System

Public Subways and Metro Systems

Public Bus and Lightrail Systems

Rest Areas on Highways

Sidewalks

All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009 federal senate appropriations)

Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!)

Public and State Universities and Colleges

Public Primary and Secondary Schools

Sesame Street

Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children

Public Museums

Libraries

Public Parks and Beaches

State and National Parks

Public Zoos

Unemployment Insurance

Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services

Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, State or Federal Government (pretty much all of them)

Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)

Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions)

Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD's ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking

Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies

Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs From Government Subsidies

Clean air

I will not to extract any benefit or protection derived from the largest and most expensive socialist enterprise on the planet earth -- the United States Military and I will call for the dismantling of this socialist enterprise.

If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forego my VA benefits and insist on paying for my own medical care

I will not tour socialist government buildings like the Capitol in Washington, D.C.

I pledge to never take myself, my family, or my children on a tour of the following types of socialist locations, including but not limited to:

Smithsonian Museums such as the Air and Space Museum or Museum of American History

The socialist Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson Monuments

The government-operated Statue of Liberty

The Grand Canyon

The socialist World War II and Vietnam Veterans Memorials

The government-run socialist-propaganda location known as Arlington National Cemetery

All other public-funded socialist sites, whether it be in my state or in Washington, DC

I will urge my Member of Congress and Senators to forego their government salary and government-provided healthcare.

I will boycott the products of corporate participants of socialism via defense contracting such as Halliburton, GE, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Humana, FedEx, General Motors, Honeywell, and hundreds of others that are paid by our socialist government to produce goods for our socialist army.

I will protest socialist security departments such as the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, Department of Homeland Security, TSA, Department of Justice and their socialist employees.

Upon reaching eligible retirement age, I will tear up my socialist Social Security checks.

Upon reaching age 65, I will forego Medicare and pay for my own private health insurance until I die.

SWORN UPON A CHRISTIAN BIBLE APPROVED, MANDATED, AND ENFORCED BY A SELF-APPOINTED, VOLUNTEER, NON-SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT ENTITY UNDER PENALTY OF EXPULSION FROM THE COMMUNITY AND/OR PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT AS THE SELF-APPOINTED, VOLUNTEER ENTITY SEES FIT TO APPLY AND SIGNED THIS DAY OF __________ IN THE YEAR ___.

_____________ _________________________

Signed Printed Name and non-communal Town and State

jonanderson
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Comments

These pledges are telling.

stwo's picture
stwo
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I'm surprised so many can type these things while having their mouths so firmly planted on the teat of big government. Makes it hard to see the keyboard.

Sawdust's picture
Sawdust
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Sawdust:

I'm surprised so many can type these things while having their mouths so firmly planted on the teat of big government. Makes it hard to see the keyboard.

Somehow, I find that comment provocative in thought, quite titillating, kind of stimulating. I believe that is due to a point of view problem on my part, my perspective is possibly warped .

TITOR RIGHT's picture
TITOR RIGHT
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Heh! Heh! this is a good one! especially the one about the Military health care. I said in a debate with a aquaintenance of mine who was griping about the VA health care.."When you came off the battle field with a hole in your side and went to a VA Hospital, you did not have a $5,000.00 note in your pocket to say I don't want this Military health care- I want to buy my care at another hospital. But you had it taken care of during your stay and follow up and for years to come because you deserved and were granted it for protecting our country. I also broke my ankle and went to an emergency room , did not have a $5,000.00 note in my pocket, had it casted, had two surgeries done on it, and had to pay for it and am now losing my home over the bill, because you had a job with garenteed health insurance and I had a job in the private sector that did not give or afford those benefits!"

UnemTrucker's picture
UnemTrucker
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Apr. 3, 2010 3:34 pm
Quote Sawdust:'m surprised so many can type these things while having their mouths so firmly planted on the teat of big government. Makes it hard to see the keyboard.
So, I guess you're saying that you wouldn't be willing to do any of these things, right?

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

No it means that I recognize nonsense when I see it.

Sawdust's picture
Sawdust
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Then you would be willing to do some of these things. Which ones?

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I didn't say that. I said it was all nonsense. It was written by someone who has no knowledge of socialism or the enumerated powers in article one section eight of the constitution. It's an attempt at humor through irony but it fails when you look at each paragraph because it has no sound underpinning in the knowledge of the very principles that our country was founded upon which are independence, liberty and an entrepreneurial spirit which allowed us to become a great nation. The hippie communalism that the article pretends to support are the reason we are in decline as a nation.

Is that clear enough for you?

Sawdust's picture
Sawdust
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Then you wouldn't be willing to do some of these things. Right?

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

You can't possibly be that thick.

Sawdust's picture
Sawdust
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Guess so. I can't read your mind. They all seemed like pretty straight-forward Agree/disagree issues. I know I would be able to answer them, no matter what my knowledge of socialism or the enumerated powers in article one section eight of the constitution." In fact, I think I have quite a bit of "knowledge of socialism or the enumerated powers in article one section eight of the constitution." I don't think that you do.

So, I take it that you wouldn't be willing to do some of these things. Right?

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

This is the last time because each time I answer you I feel like I'm talking to a wall. All the questions are in the form of, "do you still beat your wife." The logical fallacy you have to address to answer the questions makes the questions meaningless.

Socialism is an economic system in which the government controls the means of production. The only issue that addresses means of production in the first post is the post office. Article 1 section 8 gives the government the constitutional authority to maintain post roads and the commerce clause gives the government control of interstate commerce. While you could ascribe some socialist structure to the post office, the government is constitutionally authorized to perform that function.

The Tea Party movement doesn't want to eliminate government. They want the government to work within the confines of a constitutional framework. That means that the Tea Party doesn't oppose the Post Office. To say it does is stupid, not to mention a misrepresentation of the real issue which is that the government is overstepping it's constitutional authority.

Now I don't know if you think the original post is cute, smart, clever or meaningful in any way. I can tell you with confidence that it's none of the above and aimed at the lowest intellectual common denominator.

I'm done with this because I've said all I intend to about it. I hope you have a nice day though. It's beautiful where I am and I'm going to go enjoy some of it.

Sawdust's picture
Sawdust
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Well, at least we found out that you're OK with the Post Office. I guess that's something.

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I am equally suprised that you can even read it with your head so firmly implanted in your backside.

woad's picture
woad
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Apr. 6, 2010 9:08 am
I am equally suprised that you can even read it with your head so firmly implanted in your backside.
Sticks and stones.

Thank you for your scholarly analysis. You Conservatives certainly can get into the meat and bones of an issue.

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

It is sort of Funny his posts starts out with the definition of socialism then completely ignores it and heads off on the outer reaches of the universe. Funny times we live in.

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Baracus
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

The rhetorical use of socialism is a prime entry in the catalog of cultural pathology that is America.

DRC's picture
DRC
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Plain silly! Let's move on to serious topics.

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maraden
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm


Thom Hartmann lives in a world of his own. A one-dimensional world where only one facet exists. Either it is Capitalism or it is Socialism. What Thom Hartmann simply cannot conceptualize is that conservatives actually want most of the Social Programs he listed above. We know what is needed and we know what is not. But, what Thom Hartmann simply cannot conceptualize is that a society will never exist in which it is 100% Capitalism nor if it is 100% Socialism.

A capitalist society MUST have Social programs, but that does not mean our society must be purely Socialist to have them. There is no hypocrisy that we are a capitalist society and that we support social programs for whoever needs them! What utter nonsense Thom Hartmann insinuates. It is impossible to support a Socialist Society without Capitalism - IMPOSSIBLE. There must be equilibrium between the two, but Thom Hartmann's cute little Pledge proves the point that his world revolves only within the boundaries of the tunnel he is focused on. A tunnel that implys you cannot have social programs in a capitalist society, yet oh gosh, somehow we do. What's more is that his posted photo gives a smirk as if he thinks his little Pledge just made a "last second shot" from across the court - When it is obvious to the crowd he has aimed at the wrong net.

Tell ya what Thom Hartmann. Why don't you take the I am a Socialist Pledge: I ________________ Solemnly swear to forfeit all my assets, to be divided equally among all humans of the world. That's all, just one simple pledge.

I will post my smirky photo at a later date.

jsamples's picture
jsamples
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Jul. 3, 2011 6:53 pm

The Constitution makes clear that anyone who hasn't taken this pledge is automatically subscribed to it.

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nimblecivet
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I believe that Thom has been very clear about the ownership of the Commons as opposed to the ownership of the means of production. He is in favor of the former. He is not proposing that the "private sector" be abolished or that government do more than regulate the activities of Commerce outside the Commons.

Making Socialism into heresy has been the work of the ideologues on the Right. Given the Corporate desire to avoid democracy and accountability to the public, it is small wonder that rhetorical fakery has been employed. They cannot sell us what they really want, but they can get us to buy it when they package it as "freedom" opposed to "collectivism" rather than freedom in mutuality and solidarity. The idea that there are duties to freedom is not what freedom is not free is taken to mean. That those duties include inner and personal freedom from civil immoralities and the embrace of mutuality in democracy has been factored out of the brand.

The joke of the post needs to be remembered as well as the nonsense of the responses. Sawdust did state his mistaken understanding of America clearly.

DRC's picture
DRC
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I have another little survey for you to consider. Karl Marx defined the 10 pillars of Communism below. Are their any of the 10 that you disagree with? If you cannot disavow them, then maybe you should just admit your a Marxist Communist and clear up any confusion! Personally, I think we have gone too far down this path already and need to STOP.

1. Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. (Probably only one leftist don't like. They wold rather give the ILLEGAL emigrants MORE free stuff!)

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.

libtardia's picture
libtardia
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Jul. 3, 2011 8:57 pm

Oh! POW! You got me! I was almost not going to stop, but then you used ALL CAPS and that convinced me.

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planetxan
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I am not sure what is more disturbing about your icon. The "Loser" symbol that sould represent the Left. That Che seems to be a hero of the leftists. Or the Glee cover!

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libtardia
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Jul. 3, 2011 8:57 pm

Libtardia wrote:

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.

poly replies: Are you saying the U.S. Founding Fathers were Marxists by reserving public lands for public schools...or that the Germans are Marxists because they teach industrial trades in their High Schools?

Marx made some pretty keen observations on how our peculiar form of capitalism functions...and proposed some pretty wacky solutions. for its inherent contradictions. However, not all solutions. were off the mark. Abolishing child labor .was one solution. Are you suggesting we put 7-year olds back in coal mines just because Marx opposed child labor?

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I think we should put 5 year olds in coal mines and feed them raw meat!!!! You lefties go warp speed to idiotic arguments. There are a MINIMAL amount of laws that make sense. On the flip side how do you feel about police and government shutting down kids that are motivated enough to put down the XBOX and start a lemonade stand? That seems like government overstep?

Also, those schools are not free. I dont think any conservative or libertarian that I know would suggest that children should not be educated. I think they would suggest there are better, more cost efficient ways to pay for those free schools. By almost any measure our current public "free" school system is failing. I think kids need to be pushed harder, challenged, and if they cant cut it they should be held back or forced to repeat courses not just shuttled through the system.

We should invest in our schools. Note that I said investment. I know that is an evil capitalist term but I used it on purpose. The public school system is NOT an investment. Its a looser. You have corrupt school boards, minimal local controls, no accountability, and bloated teachers unions. Can you find me another unionized industry that is profitable? An investment means that parents would be able to take their hard earned dollars and put them towards the education that will most benefit their kids. It would be a personal choice, not a mandatory program of fraud.

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libtardia
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Post # 19 06 April, 2010

Quote maraden:

Plain silly! Let's move on to serious topics.

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.ren
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Apr. 1, 2010 7:50 am

Yeah. Like taking corruption out of all levels of government...including school boards. First, of course,, we have to deal with the corruptors . along with the institutionalized corruption sanctified by the Supreme Court.

.Corruption takes two to tango. The corruptor and the corruptee..

The greater the wealth disparities in a country become,, the greater the corruption...clear down to the local cop. Anyone who has travelled much can see the correlation.

When money is king, everyone grovels before the monarch..Moneyism has a few flaws.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"...

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I just find it interesting that all of you see the "corruptor" as evil ones when its the "corruptee" that sold out your trust and your vote. If you dont like the corruptor dont buy their products. Vote with your dollar, and they will be more responsive then the crooked politician that betrayed your trust. Besides if the politicians were not corruptable then business would not have to hire lobbyists to game things. If the politicians lacked the ability to manipulate and control every aspect of business there would be no need to use money to influence them.

libtardia's picture
libtardia
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Jul. 3, 2011 8:57 pm
Quote libtardia:

I just find it interesting that all of you see the "corruptor" as evil ones when its the "corruptee" that sold out your trust and your vote. If you dont like the corruptor dont buy their products. Vote with your dollar, and they will be more responsive then the crooked politician that betrayed your trust. Besides if the politicians were not corruptable then business would not have to hire lobbyists to game things. If the politicians lacked the ability to manipulate and control every aspect of business there would be no need to use money to influence them.

Hard to vote with your dollar if nearly every industry is infested with monopolies. Also, if businesses weren't so corrupt, there would be no need to regulate them in the first place.

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adamf
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

That is a chicken and the egg discussion. Business corrupts because Government regulates, so that is why Government regulates more? How many bankers you think wrote the Dodd-Frank Banking Bill? How many healthcare & insurance companies helpled right the Obamacare Bill?

Your naive to think more regulation will fix the problem. In the end the very people you want to regulate more will write the bills. The only chance you have is to take the power away from the politicians. Dont let them regulate the things that industry will feel obligated to influence.

libtardia's picture
libtardia
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Jul. 3, 2011 8:57 pm

I'm just pragmatic. Just about anyone can be bought for the right price. The greater the wealth disparities in a nation, the greater the corruption. The more egalitarian a society is, the less corruption.

Pay a cop $20 a month, and he'll kill your competitor for a years wages....$220, or at the least have him framed for murder and executed.;. Less than that in Haiti

When no one has a heck of a lot more than you do, corruption isn't lucrative.. The Iroquois Confderation didn't experience it in their 400+ year democracy, nor did the Pueblo, Osage, etc. The societies were egalitarian.

When in history has government not been captured through bribary or force when large concentrations of wealth are allowed to accumulate? You can't solve a problem by maintaining that which gives rise to it. Libertarians can't seem to get that.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

.

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

So what your saying is all the fine members of the International Union of Police (AFL-CIO) are all corruptable sleazy people that will take bribes to have people executed or wrongly imprisoned? Yet another reason to get rid of the unions!

libtardia's picture
libtardia
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Jul. 3, 2011 8:57 pm
Quote libtardia:

That is a chicken and the egg discussion. Business corrupts because Government regulates, so that is why Government regulates more? How many bankers you think wrote the Dodd-Frank Banking Bill? How many healthcare & insurance companies helpled right the Obamacare Bill?

Your naive to think more regulation will fix the problem. In the end the very people you want to regulate more will write the bills. The only chance you have is to take the power away from the politicians. Dont let them regulate the things that industry will feel obligated to influence.

I find it funny that I literally write two sentences and you manage to completely misrepresent them both. You falsely refute an opinion I never expressed and inaccurately categorize the opinion I did state.

If you honestly believe that, left to their own accord, businesses will self regulate because of the free-market - fine (even if I don't agree with that). But you must then acknowledge that a free market riddled with monopolies destroys the free-market's "power". When I have no where else to turn for health insurance, a place to shop, a place to buy an item, or when I have the power to choose what I want but I'm stuck with option A or option B and both option A and B are owned by the same people three shell companies removed - I have no power. I can't vote with my dollar. If you don't see how that works - you're the naive one.

Frankly, business only cares about one thing - Profit. You see that as a good thing. You see that as better efficiency, higher quality products, lower prices, etc. But that's not what's going on. Large businesses just use cheaper material, lower quality workers (or even outsource it to other countries). They buy up smaller companies to remove competition. If there was truly a free market and truly no monopolies then all it would take was a minor slip up to shut down a company that the market deemed unworthy. An oil spill here, a salmonella outbreak there. High health insurance premiums, high gas prices, etc. But even recent history shows us that's not what's happening. The power belongs with the people in Government and the consumers in an Economy. Unfortunately, the Lobbyists have the power in our Government and they're employed by the people who hold the power in the Economy - Business.

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adamf
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote libtardia:

I am not sure what is more disturbing about your icon. The "Loser" symbol that sould represent the Left. That Che seems to be a hero of the leftists. Or the Glee cover!

BAM! Got me again! Your wit is too much to overcome! If this were high school, you would win!

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planetxan
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Governments help to create the conditions that stiffle free markets. They pick winners & losers with auto industry. Screws unconventional companies like Tesla. They throw taxpayer money at GM and promote the Volt??? They pick winners and losers with where Boeing can build plants, creating 1000's of jobs. They create regulations that are SOOOO cost prohibitive that small business and start ups cannot possibly enter the market place. They picked winners and loosers with AIG, and Lehman. They pick winners and losers in Energy industry stalling other forms of production and domestic production. They even pick winners when it comes to what kind of lightbulb I can use. If the Government backed off their interference in business, then business would not have to write checks to pay them off.

The only power you have over business is dollars. You vote with every purchase you choose to make. Politicians sell your trust and their integrity. One of the lobbyists I know, actually an undercover lib, told me an analogy about how people hate lobbyists.

Former politicians are the pimps, that introduce lobbyists (the johns), to current politicians the hookers. In this analogy why have all the hatred for the johns. Arrest the pimps and put the hookers out of business and there would be no lobbyists. You have it backwards. Yes, business uses money as influence, but ONLY because your government is willing to sell you out. TAKE THE POWER FROM THE GOVERNMENT and make them powerless and of no value to business!

libtardia's picture
libtardia
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Jul. 3, 2011 8:57 pm

[ANTI-SOCIALIST PLEDGE. Please take and pass on...]

Hah!.. Love it. What a humorous piece of satire! I think I get it! I actually printed it out.. if that's ok? Want to show it to my libertarian friend who didn't even know that Somalia is the only country in the world that has a basic libertarian form of government. Although I think he would agree to the penny an hour part. lol

Be honest.. were you snooping around and found a Koch bros wish list? Now.. if I were a good ole American Free Market Capitalist Libertarian (whoa.. dizzy now) Republican.. I would see a corporate CEO's wish list. Their main goal seems to be to privatize everything, thus saving and restoring our precious Freedoms. We will then again be free to choose to use their completely socialist-free free-market programs at a price and quality they are free to choose. We will also then be free to choose to not use their free-market services. Say.. if we are only paid a penny an hour and can't afford to purchase them. Hmm..

I think I will stay a "Socialist" thank you. I really, really liked/liked all the programs that have helped me through life these past 40 something years. They even saved my life after my dad died when I was five and my mom became a widowed, unskilled housewife. I was in the hospital every other month with pneumonia and a deadly fever. (I had been hospitalized 13 times before I was 6 months old) This went on till I was about 12. So yeah, I will keep my socialist programs. I may not be here right now without them.

Keeku's picture
Keeku
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote libtardia:

Governments help to create the conditions that stiffle free markets. They pick winners & losers with auto industry. Screws unconventional companies like Tesla. They throw taxpayer money at GM and promote the Volt??? They pick winners and losers with where Boeing can build plants, creating 1000's of jobs. They create regulations that are SOOOO cost prohibitive that small business and start ups cannot possibly enter...

...TAKE THE POWER FROM THE GOVERNMENT and make them powerless and of no value to business!

Corruption helps to create the conditions that stifle free markets. Corporate corruption, deregulation and greed seem to be more of a determining factor in just how bad it's become. I believe most of these regulations are targeted at smaller businesses to suppress competition. Regulations put in place by politicians and Judges that either legally or illegally take lobbyist money to put them into place.

I know some states court big companies in a way that resembles an auction. One state offers one tax cut, then another state counter offers a bigger cut.. then maybe one will offer to try loosen (deregulate) child labor laws to make the business environment freindlier. Then up steps Illinois, and just tosses their state taxes altogether, then, to show faith and loyalty, turns around and cuts social programs. Cuts came in three areas: Medicaid reimbursements; school transportation; and educational bureaucracy.

...TAKE THE POWER FROM THE CORPORATION and make them powerless and of no value to government!

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Keeku
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote libtardia:

Governments help to create the conditions that stiffle free markets. They pick winners & losers with auto industry. Screws unconventional companies like Tesla. They throw taxpayer money at GM and promote the Volt??? They pick winners and losers with where Boeing can build plants, creating 1000's of jobs. They create regulations that are SOOOO cost prohibitive that small business and start ups cannot possibly enter the market place. They picked winners and loosers with AIG, and Lehman. They pick winners and losers in Energy industry stalling other forms of production and domestic production. They even pick winners when it comes to what kind of lightbulb I can use. If the Government backed off their interference in business, then business would not have to write checks to pay them off.

The only power you have over business is dollars. You vote with every purchase you choose to make. Politicians sell your trust and their integrity. One of the lobbyists I know, actually an undercover lib, told me an analogy about how people hate lobbyists.

Former politicians are the pimps, that introduce lobbyists (the johns), to current politicians the hookers. In this analogy why have all the hatred for the johns. Arrest the pimps and put the hookers out of business and there would be no lobbyists. You have it backwards. Yes, business uses money as influence, but ONLY because your government is willing to sell you out. TAKE THE POWER FROM THE GOVERNMENT and make them powerless and of no value to business!

You still don't want to address the fundamental flaw in the Free Market system which is the emergence of monopolies. Your dollar means nothing if you don't have any real options. It's powerless. You're trying to blame Government for monopolies and remove all culpability from business. Again, that's completely naive. Lobbyists may be former politicians but they work for big business (special interest). What you should really be advertising and advocating for is the removal of money from politics. All lobbyists do is bribe politicians. It's amazing that it isn't illegal.

If Government can help create conditions that sitfle business they can also create conditions that promote business. They create the rules of the game, you and I agree on that. At the moment the Government is bought and paid for by big business. They're bought and paid for by monopolies. Lobbyists and special interest groups even write a lot of the laws that Congress votes on.

If the Government started enforcing the Sherman Anti-Trust laws, a large part of the problem would start to fade away. You would have more than 2 or 3 options for health insurance. There would be more than 5 or 6 huge banks. The ability for monopolies to exert power would vanish. Because monopolies would vanish. Then and only then would my dollar make an impact over a business. Because I would finally have a real choice. But I doubt that would start happening until we removed money from politics. The fact that politicians have to sell themselves to get elected is the root of the problem. Being allowed to buy a politician is the problem.

The Free Market system doesn't work because it would allow large conglomerates. Since you can't really have rules and regulations in a Free Market (because business self-regulat), there's nothing stopping Wal-Mart from being the only shopping outlet (I went over this in a previous post. Outsourcing labor, using cheaper materials, buying out small competitors, etc). Eventually there would only be 1 or 2 companies in any given business. Again - If I only have the choice of option A or option B - I don't really have a choice. Especially when it's something I need to live.

Money is power. The large multi-national corporations have all the money. All the politicians clamor for their favor. They (the politicians) bow to their (big business) demands of favorable legislation. "They do their master's bidding". Take away the power from large, multi-national, anti-free market, corporations to buy politicians and they will no longer be able to corrupt our Government.

Businesses and Government work for the consumers and the people. Businesses have gotten so big that we now work for them. Government is so corrupted they now work for big business. They (big business) have managed to convince you that they're not culpable of any wrong doing.

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adamf
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Ever wonder why so many of the Tea Party red states take more of that evil socialist Federal money than they take in???

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/31/states-that-received-the-most-federal-funds/

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html

Note the DC figures are skewed due to the enormous amount of federal workers there including all of the federal lawmakers and associated staff.

Dominic C
Joined:
Jun. 27, 2011 10:39 am

this conversation is hilarious. the original post is priceless. i love it. it really has gotten conservatives in this chat to expose their true idealogy which isn't as partisan as they want it to be. watching some of the back and forth has gotten left and right to agree that the government is corrupt by large corporations. as this corruption grows and grows our elected officials become less and less "of the people". as that happens, the tax revenues shrink and government truly can't operate. its a self fullfiling prophecy for those that would believe that "government is the problem". nice to see that righties can at least see that the problem with gov't is that it has been corrupted by the largest of corporations. now if we could just get them to see how long this has been going on.

really, you all are going in circles and refusing to see that you actually agree. righties want their government limited as does a lefty. we all want our socialist type programs as listed in prior posts, but we don't want corporate corruption and we don't want the gov't doing more than it should or owning more than it should. the disagreement on how much the gov't should actually do is very minimal, and one which left and right had been politely debating for 200 years until the Reagan era began (note: i'm not saying its Reagan's fault - i'm saying that Reagan's puppet masters began to take control when he became president). the corporatists however have gotten us so polarized that righties think we want a marxist state. NOT TRUE! just as there are very few righties that want no gov't at all (anarchy), there are very few lefties who want complete gov't take over (communism).

this is not intended for response. i won't be coming back to see what you've written....have a good one!!

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Barbazza
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote adamf:

You still don't want to address the fundamental flaw in the Free Market system which is the emergence of monopolies.

I think that many rightwingers/teabaggers don't or can't address this issue because they feel that laissez faire capitalism, i.e. "The Free Market" is some natural law of the Universe that emerged with the Big Bang and coalesced with the formation of the Solar System.

They also somehow equate it with "Democracy" when many of these geniuses do not even understand that one is a economic model, "The Free Market" and the other is a political system ("Democracy". i.e. Representative Democracy).

I think the main crux of the problem with this debate lies with these premises.

Dominic C
Joined:
Jun. 27, 2011 10:39 am

In America there is ONLY ONE monopoly....Its the Federal Government.

There is no product or service in America where I as the consumer do not have at least 3 choices. What monopolies do you feel so threatened by? In addition, if you got the federal government out of the business of picking winners/losers and reduce the burden on small companies (placed into law as regulations by large companies) then there would be EVEN more competition!

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libtardia
Joined:
Jul. 3, 2011 8:57 pm
Quote libtardia:

In America there is ONLY ONE monopoly....Its the Federal Government.

There is no product or service in America where I as the consumer do not have at least 3 choices. What monopolies do you feel so threatened by? In addition, if you got the federal government out of the business of picking winners/losers and reduce the burden on small companies (placed into law as regulations by large companies) then there would be EVEN more competition!

Isn't Libertarian Retard a redundancy?

Dominic C
Joined:
Jun. 27, 2011 10:39 am

The enlightened liberal left shows its core once again. Good luck to you sir, I hope you someday find the source of what is turning you into a bitter, self-loathing, American. Its OK to be proud from time to time. Not all solutions come from Dear Leader Obama and the robots in the House and Senate... Sometimes we have to do for ourselves and take care of others without Government intervention....

libtardia's picture
libtardia
Joined:
Jul. 3, 2011 8:57 pm
Quote libtardia:

The enlightened liberal left shows its core once again. Good luck to you sir, I hope you someday find the source of what is turning you into a bitter, self-loathing, American. Its OK to be proud from time to time. Not all solutions come from Dear Leader Obama and the robots in the House and Senate... Sometimes we have to do for ourselves and take care of others without Government intervention....

Go take the time to read my posts before you comment on my line of thinking.

Long live King Obama!!! May his reign last for 1000 years!!!

L2 read and comprehend Teabagger!

Dominic C
Joined:
Jun. 27, 2011 10:39 am
Quote libtardia:

In America there is ONLY ONE monopoly....Its the Federal Government.

There is no product or service in America where I as the consumer do not have at least 3 choices. What monopolies do you feel so threatened by? In addition, if you got the federal government out of the business of picking winners/losers and reduce the burden on small companies (placed into law as regulations by large companies) then there would be EVEN more competition!

Again you haven't addressed the fundamental flaw of a Free-Market system (don't worry I never expect you to). If there are no rules restricting the formation of monopolies - there will eventually only be monopolies. The existence of a monopoly directly conflicts with the idea of competition. The Free-Market system is unsustainable without regulations. With regulations it isn't a "Free Market". Free Markets do not work and do not exist.

If you think 3 choices = competition, for the third time I must inform you that you are not only absurdly naive - but you're shockingly naive. Health Insurance companies are exempt from anti-trust laws. They can collude and price fix. One, Two, or Three Health Insurance Companies in any given state acting in collusion with one another = a monopoly.

You're still blaming Government as the sole root cause for making bad rules and then suggesting, as your solution, that Government should not be allowed to make rules at all. It's interesting that you'll admit that bad regulations are "placed into law as regulations by large companies" and still not want to make it impossible for large companies to engage in that kind of bribery. This is where you're being fooled into the "Government is the problem." illusion. The problem isn't Government. The problem is corruption. I don't understand why you're a fan of Corruption in Business while hating it in Government. Corruption is bad anywhere.

Two easy (easy as in easy to recognize - not so easy to implement) solutions:

a) Remove the money from politics

b) Enforce the Sherman Anti-Trust laws

adamf's picture
adamf
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote libtardia:

The enlightened liberal left shows its core once again. Good luck to you sir, I hope you someday find the source of what is turning you into a bitter, self-loathing, American. Its OK to be proud from time to time. Not all solutions come from Dear Leader Obama and the robots in the House and Senate... Sometimes we have to do for ourselves and take care of others without Government intervention....

You do realize that criticizing someone for saying "Libertarian Retard is redundant" while having the user-name "libtardia" is hypocritical, right? I hope at least...

adamf's picture
adamf
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

We vote for politicians to represent us. Correct? Do you vote for companies? Do you sit on the board? If you dont like the company dont buy their product, dont buy their stock. The companies do NOT vote or sign a bill into law. The politicians you elect do. If those elected officials are so eager and able to differ their authority and power to companies then its a FAILURE OF THE POLITICIANS. Limit their power to write a 100,000 page tax code that pics winners and losers and you will eliminate their importance to business. You have been so programmed that business is bad. I find that sorry. You are probably typing on your Mac, drinking a starbucks, sitting on a Lazy boy, watching MSNBC on your Sony TV. They are all corporations and they have given us great tecnologies and amenities. All the government gives me is insane programs that dont work and are always OVER budget.

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libtardia
Joined:
Jul. 3, 2011 8:57 pm

<clueless>

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planetxan
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

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