ARIZONA TRAVELLERS ADVISORY

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Don't Visit Arizona! Since Arizona recently passed bills that;legalizes carrying a concealed weapon by anyone with or without training;permits carrying loaded weapons into bars;allows police to ask anyone to prove they are an American Citizen;The general population and all visitors to the State of Arizona can not be guaranteed safety, security, or freedom from harassment while they are anywhere within the State borders. This group is issuing a travelers advisory to avoid the State and take your vacation dollars elsewhere where sanity is the norm.

I live in Arizona and I am ashamed of the recent actions in the Republican controlled House and Senate.
I am of European descent and therefore would not likely be subjected to the police stops that are expected to come but I am incensed that by law I can be required to bring identification papers showing that I am an American Citizen. I REFUSE to carry that identification. If I am stopped (minuscule chance) I will refuse to show more than my drivers license and vehicles registration and insurance period.

I have started a Facebook Group called Don't Come to Arizona that needs new members http://www.facebook.com/wayne.fox?ref=profile#!/group.php?gid=115186698510918&ref=mf

If we can get enough members we might actually get picked up by the MSM nad actually effect the amount of tourism and commerce in the state until these laws are repealed.

desert fox's picture
desert fox
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Comments

Good for Arizona.

Carrying weapons should be a right not infringed upon. CWP's and the ability for citizens to carry legally has proven a reduction in crime time and again in multiple states. With the open gate between Mexico and AZ, I can understand why they would ask people if they are a citizen. The Fed obviously doesn't care who's coming in.

I'm headed to Cabo in June for another fishing trip and stopping in Pheonix both ways. I'll support the local community well while I'm there.

slabmaster
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Apr. 1, 2010 11:12 am

Vermont and Alaska already have similar gun laws.

kulak.2.1
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Mar. 31, 2010 6:39 pm

The above is correct vermot does have very liberal gun laws, So i guess so does Alaska. The difference is in vermont, gays and lesbians have the benefit of domestic partnership laws to gicve them some equality, which Alaska does not give such equality. In regards to personal liberties, vermot is the "most free" state in my humble opinion. The other issue that the orginal poster sets fourth is illegal immigration and the new az law. The new az law is an invitation for racial profiling. How can one formulate "reasonable suspition" for a terry stop that a browned skinned person is there illegally. Does this mean that every browned skinned person in az will be stopped for reasonable suspition that they are in the usa illegally? I know that all good with the conservative set, but bodes negativilty for ones person liberties.

"I am incensed that by law I can be required to bring identification papers showing that I am an American Citizen. I REFUSE to carry that identification. If I am stopped (minuscule chance) I will refuse to show more than my drivers license and vehicles registration and insurance period."

I understand your anger, but showing your DL, is identification. Im not sure about AZ but some states required that people, even pedistrians and homeless, carry identification and be required to present it to LE. Its just identifying yourself not an admission to a crime. If the state offeres free state id cards, it more then likely that one is required to carry it at all times.

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shalwechat
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

"ability for citizens to carry legally has proven a reduction in crime time and again in multiple states"

slabmaster, where is your data? or did you just pull that out of your ass.

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dwightrat
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

One more reason out of many to stay out of Arizona.

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norske
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote dwightrat:

slabmaster, where is your data? or did you just pull that out of your ass.

Crimes stats available through the internet among other places.

slabmaster
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Apr. 1, 2010 11:12 am

Arizona is an awsome place to ride Harleys.

slabmaster
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Apr. 1, 2010 11:12 am

Hi desert fox, I read about this earlier this month. One aspect which occured to me is the fact that illegal immigration will now be pushed to the bordering states (which also border Mexico) such as California and New Mexico. Both of which already have similar problems with illegal immigration.

I believe we had a post here earlier about going after the people who hire illegal immigrants. Its not too difficult to prove that someone is in the country legally (and yes you do require more info than just a SS #).

As the economy in the States gets worse, there will be fewer and fewer immigrants anyway, as they aren't going to come if there aren't any jobs.

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meljomur
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CWP's and the ability for citizens to carry legally has proven a reduction in crime time and again in multiple states.

I am a AZ citizen as well. I own several firearms as well as a CWP. If you know what it takes to get a CWP and the special training needed. Then this LAW that gave that right to every gun owner in AZ without the necessary training. To now conceal their weapons should concern you. I thought I knew everything there was to know. That was until I applied for my CWP. The training I recieved was top notch. I would say anyone that wants a CWP should have to attend CW coarses. BAD LAW!

Does this mean that every browned skinned person in az will be stopped for reasonable suspition that they are in the usa illegally?

BINGO! Let me first say this has been going on for over 4 years here in AZ. The Maricopa Sheriffs Department (MSD) would go to communities where there was a high concentration of Hispanic people living. Set up checkpoints and round up Hispanics everyday. Even though they had over 4,000 open warrants to serve this is how they spent our money rather than going after what I consider Higher priorities. What this new law says is that all public safety officers now have to act as ICE officials. They must to have probable cause but this can be color, style of clothes, accents, Schools. etc. Regardless of color they can pull you over for the slightest infraction giving this as a primary reason, even standing on a corner ...loitering. Another thing all this will require each department to fund all additional needs internally. This is funny we are already broke and the Police departmet has had a highering freeze for the last 2 years.

I understand your anger, but showing your DL, is identification.

This will not be accepted alone as proving citizenship. You must carry a legal document stating your a leagal citizen ie birth certificate passport etc. You know, everything you need at the DMV.

As the economy in the States gets worse, there will be fewer and fewer immigrants anyway, as they aren't going to come if there aren't any jobs.

This is where I think most people are delusional. The average wage earner in Mexico makes the equivalent of $7 US per day. If you come to America you will make at least that per hour. Eight times that of what you will make in Mexico or more. So they will never stop....would you? As for those thinking your middle class jobs are being taken by illegal immigrants. Please, they are not making wages that even come close to what is considered middle class. More like a drop out of H.S.

In closing let me touch back to the issue of the profiling. The Southwest is has a huge Hispanic community. This Law will directly effect every single American citizen with Hispanic roots. It will also directly effect the affectiveness of fighting crime in AZ. I garauntee that if there is someone shot, robbed, held hostage, anycrime at all that not one person will come forward and tell a police officer what they may have witness in fear that they will be subjected to this law. Just today the people of a small comunity in Tempe AZ ran to hide in a church. Refusing to go home because of a road block that is due to set up by the MSD tomorrow. As soon as I can I am GONE!

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RITTERBY
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I am really starting to be sickened by my own country. This is horrendous action on the behalf of AZ. The story that Thom just aired about the man who was arrested for not having a birth certificate with him and was a US citizen really made me want to cry. If this is what it means to be American, I'm ready to go to Europe. Seriously. I am absolutely sickened by the racism, bigotry, hate speech and craziness that is constantly being perpetuated in this country. The right wingers should take over some red state and secede and we should make them ALL move to that state now. Be gone. I want MY country back. The one that has a prominent statue with the following statement on it:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

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DebbieKat
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

How could Obama allow this racism to happen?

slabmaster
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Apr. 1, 2010 11:12 am

slabmaster, It should not be to difficult to supply a link to a site that proves that an armed citizenry reduces crime, if such stat's exist.

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dwightrat
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

slabmaster, this is a STATE level bill that was passed. I guarantee it will be challenged and found to be unconstitutional.

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DebbieKat
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Yeah Kat, when the left perpetuates hate speech, bigotry and racism they call that freedom of speech!!!

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bufffalo1
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Quote dwightrat:

slabmaster, It should not be to difficult to supply a link to a site that proves that an armed citizenry reduces crime, if such stat's exist.

There are hundreds. Google is a great tool, try it.

One quicky for ya, Read both pages, it is interesting. http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0211f.asp

New Hampshire has almost no gun control and its cities are rated among the safest in the country. Across the border in Massachusetts, which has very stringent gun-control laws, cities of comparable size have two to three times as much crime as New Hampshire.

Vermont has the least restrictive gun-control law. It recognizes the right of any Vermonter who has not otherwise been prohibited from owning a firearm to carry concealed weapons without a permit or license. Yet Vermont has one of the lowest crime rates in America, ranking 49 out of 50 in all crimes and 47th in murders.

States which have passed concealed-carry laws have seen their murder rate fall by 8.5 percent, rapes by 5 percent, aggravated assaults by 7 percent and robbery by 3 percent.

Texas is a good example. In the early 1990s, Texas’s serious crime rate was 38 percent above the national average. Since then, serious crime in Texas has dropped 50 percent faster than for the nation as a whole. All this happened after passage of a concealed-carry law in 1994.

slabmaster
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Apr. 1, 2010 11:12 am
Quote DebbieKat:

slabmaster, this is a STATE level bill that was passed. I guarantee it will be challenged and found to be unconstitutional.

Should we have no immigration enforcement? That would solve the problem of illegals and the evil employers that hire them.

slabmaster
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Apr. 1, 2010 11:12 am

Give me an example of the left perpetuating ANY of these things. Give me just one.

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DebbieKat
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I did not say that at all. But making ALL people who are brown pull over and asking them for their papers is a bit over the top, don't you think? And, don't we also have white illegal immigrants??? You don't think there are some Europeans here? Or Asians? This is just hateful and it is NOT CONSTITUTIONAL. You can't require people to show a birth certificate everywhere they go. That's ridiculous. Where's YOUR birth certificate?

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DebbieKat
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Quote slabmaster:
Quote dwightrat:

slabmaster, It should not be to difficult to supply a link to a site that proves that an armed citizenry reduces crime, if such stat's exist.

There are hundreds. Google is a great tool, try it.

One quicky for ya, Read both pages, it is interesting. http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0211f.asp

New Hampshire has almost no gun control and its cities are rated among the safest in the country. Across the border in Massachusetts, which has very stringent gun-control laws, cities of comparable size have two to three times as much crime as New Hampshire.

Vermont has the least restrictive gun-control law. It recognizes the right of any Vermonter who has not otherwise been prohibited from owning a firearm to carry concealed weapons without a permit or license. Yet Vermont has one of the lowest crime rates in America, ranking 49 out of 50 in all crimes and 47th in murders.

States which have passed concealed-carry laws have seen their murder rate fall by 8.5 percent, rapes by 5 percent, aggravated assaults by 7 percent and robbery by 3 percent.

Texas is a good example. In the early 1990s, Texas’s serious crime rate was 38 percent above the national average. Since then, serious crime in Texas has dropped 50 percent faster than for the nation as a whole. All this happened after passage of a concealed-carry law in 1994.

Vermont is also not very populated. But I don't suppose that enters into the statistics you found, does it?

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DebbieKat
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Quote DebbieKat:

Vermont is also not very populated. But I don't suppose that enters into the statistics you found, does it?

It has a larger population than WA DC.

Guess which one has more crime?

slabmaster
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Apr. 1, 2010 11:12 am

I have no problem with carrying a weapon in a holster, I used to do that and wear cowboy boots when I was six but then grew out of it. I do however object to people carrying concealed weapons without going through a certified weapons class before receiving a permit.

Although I was an expert marksman while in the military I have, since my son was born 41 years ago, had a policy of no guns in my house to which I still adhere. With the new concealed weapon law, I feel less secure when I leave my house.

I don't need a gun to prove my manhood as many aparently do, I proved it by my military service and subsequent injury. I also served to secure my freedom from any requirement to prove my citizenship in my own country.

I'm expecting the next move in Arizona is to require that everyone entering the state by any mode of transportation will be stopped and asked for identification. This is the first step to a national ID card with biometrics enbedded in it.

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desert fox
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"This will not be accepted alone as proving citizenship. You must carry a legal document stating your a leagal citizen ie birth certificate passport etc. You know, everything you need at the DMV."

So now a browned skinned person will have to carry birth certificate, passport etc at all times in AZ. If the LEO suspects that a browned skinned person is an illegal, they can be arrested. In order to prevent arrest at the terry stop, the person woul need to carry a birth certificate, passport etc at all times. I suspect that LEO's will not be asking citizenship papers of all the people they stop, just the ones whose names are rodriguez, hernandez and brown skinned people.

"Should we have no immigration enforcement? That would solve the problem of illegals and the evil employers that hire them."

they are breaking the law for hiring illegal workers....and should be punished. The conserviteves prefer to punish human capital and give a slap on the hand for for the companies that hire illegaly.

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shalwechat
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Yes DC has much more crime, that's where the Congress and the Lobbyists are.

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desert fox
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Arizona travellers advisory only applies to browned skinend people, since they run the higher risk of being asked for proof of citizenship then any other group.

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shalwechat
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote shalwechat:That would solve the problem of illegals and the evil employers that hire them."

they are breaking the law for hiring illegal workers....and should be punished. The conserviteves prefer to punish human capital and give a slap on the hand for for the companies that hire illegaly.

Jan 1, 2008 ... The Legal Arizona Worker's Act

Seems they took care of that for you back in 2007

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Alpharius
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Apr. 20, 2010 10:28 am

Yes, DC stands for District of Crime. (Or District of Corruption)

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rbs
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Seems Drivers License is just fine. Embellishing it isn't going to help your cause.

The bill does, however, have support from law enforcement. They say it will make it easier to approach illegal immigrants outside Home Depot, a known hot spot for day labor work sites, and ask for their legal papers (either a drivers license or visa), failure could mean arrest and deportation.

Alpharius's picture
Alpharius
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Apr. 20, 2010 10:28 am
Quote DebbieKat:Give me an example of the left perpetuating ANY of these things. Give me just one.

How about Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright, race baiters Jesse Jackson and Farrakahn, for starters.

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bufffalo1
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Apr. 1, 2010 7:49 am

Black Panthers blocking access to voting places. Hispanic groups ,LULAC, advocating taking back parts of the southwest.

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bufffalo1
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Quote dwightrat:

slabmaster, It should not be to difficult to supply a link to a site that proves that an armed citizenry reduces crime, if such stat's exist.

The town north of Atlanta had little prominence until it passed a gun ordinance in 1982 that required all heads of a household to own a firearm and ammunition.

Kennesaw's law was a response to Morton Grove, Illinois, which had passed a gun ban earlier that year as a step to reduce crime.

But it also was an affirmation of what gun advocates say is a blanket U.S. constitutional right, under the Second Amendment, for citizens to keep and bear arms. Gun opponents challenge that right and say the language in the Constitution is open to interpretation.

The Kennesaw law has endured as the town's population has swelled to about 30,000 from 5,000 in 1982.

"When the law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime ... and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then," said police Lt. Craig Graydon. "We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area.

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Alpharius
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Apr. 20, 2010 10:28 am

In compare / contrast,

25 years murder-free
in 'Gun Town USA'

By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More significantly, perhaps, the city's crime rate increased by 15.7 percent immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000.
Alpharius's picture
Alpharius
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Apr. 20, 2010 10:28 am
Quote desert fox:

I have no problem with carrying a weapon in a holster, I used to do that and wear cowboy boots when I was six but then grew out of it. I do however object to people carrying concealed weapons without going through a certified weapons class before receiving a permit.

Although I was an expert marksman while in the military I have, since my son was born 41 years ago, had a policy of no guns in my house to which I still adhere. With the new concealed weapon law, I feel less secure when I leave my house.

I don't need a gun to prove my manhood as many aparently do, I proved it by my military service and subsequent injury. I also served to secure my freedom from any requirement to prove my citizenship in my own country.

I'm expecting the next move in Arizona is to require that everyone entering the state by any mode of transportation will be stopped and asked for identification. This is the first step to a national ID card with biometrics enbedded in it.

The beauty is that no one is requiring you to carry a gun inside or outside of your pants. You are a free American that can still make choices. Your choice is to not carry and not have guns in your house, and I salute that right.

Please don't infringe on others rights.

slabmaster
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Apr. 1, 2010 11:12 am
Quote Alpharius:Seems Drivers License is just fine. Embellishing it isn't going to help your cause. The bill does, however, have support from law enforcement. They say it will make it easier to approach illegal immigrants outside Home Depot, a known hot spot for day labor work sites, and ask for their legal papers (either a drivers license or visa), failure could mean arrest and deportation.

The drivers license alone will not verify your "citizenship". Tell me one instance that when asked to prove your citizenship. You could just go into your wallet or purse and slap down a drivers license and say, "booyah!!" there it is. Delusional Thinking.

"Some support..." This is how that blogger should have stated her personal claim. I live in AZ and departmental support of this bill is the hot topic. Main issues are funding and how this will effect community relations.....No brainer here.

This is a ridiculous bill The responsibility of the border is a Federal issue. It will be heard around the world when a Veteran is detained to prove his Right to be HERE. It will happen!

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RITTERBY
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote RITTERBY:This is a ridiculous bill The responsibility of the border is a Federal issue.

And what a wonderful job they have and are doing!!!

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bufffalo1
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Apr. 1, 2010 7:49 am
The beauty is that no one is requiring you to carry a gun inside or outside of your pants. You are a free American that can still make choices. Your choice is to not carry and not have guns in your house, and I salute that right.

Please don't infringe on others rights.

Regarding the illegal imigrant law, how about the privilege of citizenship? I believe I heard that an American citizen was arrested for meeting the threshold of "reasonable suspicion", looked like a Mexican, because he didn't have his birth certificate on him. Maybe we need a chip inserted under our skin. It seems that the gubment can imprison citizens who can't prove that they're a citizen. What's that do to the privilege to keep and bear arms?

Of course, if I'm wrong about this "arrested citizen for looking Mexican" thing then hold off on answering the question until it happens, because it will happen.

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jeffbiss
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I'll be in Mexico in early June and expect my lilly white skin to get sun damaged. If I come back looking Mexican and get arrested, I'll post my woes here first.

If I get stopped in Pheonix, I'll slap that cop upside the head with a big tuna!

slabmaster
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Apr. 1, 2010 11:12 am

We expect a report, either from you or on the nightly news.

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jeffbiss
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Quote RITTERBY:

The drivers license alone will not verify your "citizenship". Tell me one instance that when asked to prove your citizenship. You could just go into your wallet or purse and slap down a drivers license and say, "booyah!!" there it is. Delusional Thinking


Well, I have a New license that has a digital photo that is easily retrieved by an officer to verify my driver’s license is a state issued ID. The one time I didn’t have my wallet when pulled over. He looked up the photo anyway to verify who I said I was.

So no, I don’t think it is delusional thinking to believe they need anything more than an Driver license to verify your identity. If you don’t have a Driver license, then I guess life just gets a bit more complicated for you.

While the International Border is a federal problem. What goes on in the state is a State problem. They see the problem and at least are doing something to save thier state. Which is better then the feds are doing.

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Alpharius
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Apr. 20, 2010 10:28 am

We could go back and forth on this issue all day. In the end it will not detour the problems of immigration. They thought that the The Legal Arizona Worker's Act would effect it. It didn't. What I did see at that time was a lot of empty streets for a period of about 2 weeks. This legislative mandate will not secure our borders.

The author of this bill State Sen. Russell Pearce (R) said, "This bill will allow law enforcement the ability to do its job." What? The law enforcement officers are here to protect and serve the citizens of this state. They do not and have not been trained on how to handle illegal immigrants, as mandated by Section 287(g) of the Illegal Immigration Responsibility Act of 1996. This is a six week coarse (per officer).

Again the border issue is a Federal Issue. Yes they have been slow to enact any kind of national immigration reform, I agree. I do believe the security at the boarder should be beefed up with National Gaurd troops with rotating deployments. These rotating deployments will detour posibilities of corruption.

The fact is this mandate will wedge each and every community in Arizona. Except for those of you who keep moving further and further away from society.

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RITTERBY
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Quote RITTERBY:

They thought that the The Legal Arizona Worker's Act would effect it. It didn't.

Illegals flee Ariz. amid new laws, slow economy

Illegal immigrants fleeing apartments in Arizona

Striking changes in Arizona as illegal immigrants flee the state

Fewer illegal immigrants are using hospital emergency rooms, so waiting times have decreased. Although the rest of the country is in an economic slump, unemployment is going down in Arizona, from 4.5% in January to 4.1% in March. Day laborers loitering outside of Home Depot and other stores have mostly disappeared, ending months of confrontation between illegal immigrant sympathizers and protesters. Desert lands near the border are returning to their pristine condition and the wildlife is coming back. Identity theft and car thefts are decreasing. No one showed up on May 1 to march in immigrant rallies

If your saying they came back, then I guess tougher measures are needed.

The bill might not secure the US borders, but should do wonders for the Arizona Border.

Now get California, New Mexico and Texas to drop the hammer. Makes for a nice buffer zone.

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Alpharius
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Apr. 20, 2010 10:28 am
Quote Alpharius:
Quote shalwechat:That would solve the problem of illegals and the evil employers that hire them."

they are breaking the law for hiring illegal workers....and should be punished. The conserviteves prefer to punish human capital and give a slap on the hand for for the companies that hire illegaly.

Jan 1, 2008 ... The Legal Arizona Worker's Act Seems they took care of that for you back in 2007

and here is how its enforced...10 day suspention and 2 three year porbation.soo much for getting tough on illegal immigration. its slap on the wrist.

http://www.illegalimmigrationjournal.com/spotlight/andy.cfm?id=90

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shalwechat
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

opps, duplicate post...

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shalwechat
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Quote shalwechat:

and here is how its enforced...10 day suspention and 2 three year porbation.soo much for getting tough on illegal immigration. its slap on the wrist


Obviously, you do not run a business.
I am sure Walmart would love to take a 10 day vacation in which they have to pay everyone with the option of having never doing business in Arizona again because they can’t get a business license

Have you ever owned a gas station you couldn't use because you can't get a busniess license..

Sure thing... slap on the wrist.

BTW. 10 day suspension on first offense. permanent license revocation for a second one.

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Alpharius
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Apr. 20, 2010 10:28 am

Alpharius, That is exactly what happened. For about two weeks the streets were silent. Then everything went back to normal. The majority did not leave. They just layed low. I know personally 2 immigrants that did leave though.

They worked for a company that built Pools here in Arizona for 5 years. After the bill passed they were wondering what to do. They decided to go back to Mexico rather than bring their employer, who had given them their jobs in trouble with the new law. Their employer was unaware of their legal status untill they bolth walked into the office and explained. Their employer was willing to try and apply for them to get work visas but they knew that the possiblities of this were not good. They shook hands and left.

I helped them pack up all there belongings onto their S-10 pickups. It reminded me of the old show, Sanford and Son. We have kept in touch. Calling every 6 months or so. They have adjusted to living again under terrible conditions but do feel they did the right thing. Each were grateful for the people who treated them as individuals and only hope that if we were visiting Mexico they can return that gesture.

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RITTERBY
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Well it was announced tonight that Jan Brewer (R) Governor for the State of Arizona will sign the bill into law tomorrow afternoon.

There was a poll taken that everyone is reporting that 79% of AZ is for this bill. They polled 500 people. The office of J. Brewer has report on this evenings news that just over 1000 voters called her office in support of the bill and over 11,000 voters have called urging her to VETO the legislation. These are real numbers from her office. So why is she going to pass it?

I think she is trying to forcing the hand of the Federal Government to step in. She has the power to call National gaurd troops to the border to beef up security, but she doesn't have the money to pay for this. So she wants the federal government to pay for it. which they should, but they refuse to put the troops there.

The legislation when passed will surely come under Federal Court's jurisdiction to validate if indeed the law is Constitutional. A similar law was passed in California and the law was found to be unconstitutional.

So pass the bill even though you know it will be found unconstitutional, even though your citizens have shown in numbers against the bill on the eve of the signing. Why?

Just to put Arizona in the spotlight for the last week so that The President's hand will be forced to assist AZ's demands for troops on the border.

Time will tell.

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RITTERBY
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

That's the intent but the law applies to everyone in the state.

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desert fox
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

The open CCW law has existed in Arizona at least as far back as my working days there, and that was thirty years ago. Further, the writer of European descent is apparently unaware, as are most Americans, of how dangerous the southwest border is. It has gotton worse in recent years because of the influx of illegal aliens and their involvment in drug smuggling from Mexico. The rancher in the south of the state is just the latest example of the failure to have an aggressive, coordinated immigration enforcement policy. My personal opinion is that if cities want to be sanctuary cityies (which puts them in violation of federal laws), then federal $$$ should be cut off for those cities. Enough with the foolishness of denying what's right in front of our eyes.

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cpp224
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

OK, our war on drugs (hah) screws up Mexico even more than our ag policies and makes the border doubly dangerous. The answer is to crack down on the victims instead of confronting the powers that love the cheap labor and money from the Prohibitiionist Folly. Or from building stupid walls or hiring more guns.

My nephew married into an old Tucson Mexican family and his kids will "look suspicious" to White eyes.

I refuse to blame the slaves for slavery, and punishing people who work hard and have families because "we" are frustrated by a problem created by American public policy crap, we'll take it out on them instead of dealing with the powerful. Cowardly and cruel. Stupid and counter-productive too. Must be what makes it appealing.

DRC's picture
DRC
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

DRC,

of which race do you decend? Is there an uncomfortable race issue in your past that we don't know about?

I notice in most of your posts, you have a disdain for the white race.

As a lilly white suburbanite neocon meat eater, I'll judge you by your actions, not your race.

slabmaster
Joined:
Apr. 1, 2010 11:12 am

It's a relatively simple matter for TPTB to inflame the relatively low informed base with mindless rhetoric about the dangers of the alien horde of brown skinned people coming to the US from points south.

It serves to keep their eyse off of the real issues of the day and the ever increasing inequality in the US.

norske's picture
norske
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

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Time to Rethink the War on Terror

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When Eric Holder eventually steps down as Attorney General, he will leave behind a complicated legacy, some of it tragic, like his decision not to prosecute Wall Street after the financial crisis, and his all-out war on whistleblowers like Edward Snowden.

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