Hello, I pray

We come in peace.  Confidence is the best self-defense.  Good people can have bad ideas.  May it be so.

 I am not religious and don't pray, but as an atheist I cannot ignore the beautiful  poetry  and prose to absorb and make a place for http://www.parabola.org/a-wing-and-a-prayer

 "Is it not written 'ye are as gods'" - Christ

You can deny that part of yourself which resembles what some call the divine image....and you'll still create a painting as being beautiful. or ugly . when you observe it. it's just a painting, but. In some things your word is law in the universe...as a gods is.

"In the beginning, there was the word. And the word was God." Did your word command the painting to be beautiful...or ugly in your internal universe...where your commands have the force of an omnipotent god?. Religion includes getting in touch with that and making wise commands..

Nothing worse than a god running around not knowing he's in full command of his internal universe....then they make  utterances....commands... that make themselves  miserable. We get internally what we command........."pray for". The beautiful Mona Lisa...or the ugly one.  Some command the painting to be beautiful..some command it to be ugly. In either case, the command is fullfilled internally in an omnipotent manner..

"Ye are as gods". Be responsible about it. It will save you years on a shrinks couch undoing your own  commands.

Retired Monk

"Ideology is a disease"

I send out prayers and a message of hope to all who have multiple tragedies too close together. Please provide them strength and happier days soon.

What is this supposed to be? An oblique threat?

Amen...."so be it. truly". One of the few Hebrew words incorporated into the liturgy of the Catholic Church.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

As an artist, I find your comment (prayer?) interesting. I find that painting requires a critical evaluation of one's work. This means seeing both what is good, beautiful, etc in your work along with what is bad, ugly, etc. As you gain experience and maturity as an artist over time, one would hope this critical eye develops along with ones skill and technique.

What I am skeptical about in your prayer/comment is the part about internal omnipotence and "ye are as gods". It seems to me that you have to acknowledge the external world which is capable of effecting you (and others) in ways which are beyond your control. Also, while you can choose to see ideology as a disease, I think it can also be a healthy and beautiful thing (or at least a useful reference point) if you keep in mind its inherent limitations. (This is in reply to polycarp2's post #3)

I guess I'll be the "bad" guy and bring up my own feelings with regard to "gifts" of prayer. I assume that when someone takes the time to tell me they will beseach the universe on my behalf that their goal is less about really wishing for me to have peace and more about me KNOWING that they wish for me to have peace, and also notifying me that they believe there is a higher power who can deliver said peace if asked nicely by the right person. It's more than a little condescending, in my opinion, to imply that I cannot obtain my own peace without the mumbo jumbo of their specific theist variety.

Let me just say that I am a devout agnostic. I only use the word "agnostic" and not "atheist" because I don't claim to be sure that there isn't a diety of some sort. That being said, I accept either term as a description of my spiritual inclination and wouldn't live any differently if I used the other word.

It is not an overstatement to say that I believe prayer is a swiss-army type tool. It can be a private alignment of ones thoughts toward the end of all ends which is personal fullfillment and establishing the moral course for one's actions. It can be an activity that groups engage in to establish unity of thought. It can be a desperate, shot in the dark for those who suffer greatly. And, in it's most common form, it is utter laziness.

I say laziness because when most people say I'll pray for you, what they really mean is, I am sympathetic to your condition and will do the thing which takes the least amount of real effort while still feeling that I am doing SOMETHING. Forgive me if saying this is, in any way, anti-spiritual, but this version of prayer is dumb. To simultaneously believe that there is an all-knowing, all-powerful god and that He will change the course that He is well aware of and, indeed, set in motion because some lady with eighties bangs and a denim dress asked him to is absurd.

Please understand I'm not just trying to be mean. I'm not opposed to mean-ness, where called for, but that is not my goal. In fact, I believe that when a conservative christian type offers prayer to a known atheist THEY are being mean. They are trying to demonstrate the boundry between themselves and the unwashed, unsaved hethen. Am I wrong?

D Natured - I think you are right on about the egocentricity of some prayer.  The ultimate absurdity being the two football teams in their pregame huddle asking God to be their victory!  That aside, if you fully drop the christian philosophical underpinnings of the universe (the authority of the bible, heaven and hell, the savior thing with Jesus, judgment day and it's eternal consequences - then you have room to breath.  Consciousness remains - and what poly said about "ye are as gods" is an open possibility.

In fact in India some see that in deepest reality all is God -and within us lies the eternal, and various endless possibilities of states of consciousness (perhaps sometimes even a participation in a form of prayer that changes things).

But either way those asshole fundamentalists ain't got it right..

I'm a praying man, but when that opportunistic Tim Tebow said Jesus helped him defeat my Bears last week, I was disgusted.  Not because I don't love Jesus, but because Jesus don't give a rat's ass about no football game.  Especially when the winning quarterback doesn't follow his commands.

"And whenever you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to stand in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they will be seen by people. I tell you with certainty, they have their full reward!  -  Mattew 6:5

The God of healings is the same God of yesterday, today and tomorrow. He is there to answer your cries if you care to call upon Him for He loves ALL of us! He is the Majestic Creator or all man kind, not a single soul could deny it!

amen !!!

D_NATURED - I am wondering...have you ever had the experience of thinking about someone close to you and moments later they call you? Or email you?