For the rest of us.....

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Might there be a large group of Americans for whom Obama isn't either a corporate tool nor a socialist bent on the destruction of capitalism....?

I wonder.

Did you ever wonder how far your own opinions whether they be progressive or conservative are actually in a small minority with the rest of us who just want to see government function and actually pass legislation as middle of the road as it may be? We want to see things get done and we are not waiting either for the perfect liberal or conservative utopia?

But I guess that's not too sexy. It doesn't get Glenn Beck or Keith Olbermann FIRED UP....

danieladamsmith's picture
danieladamsmith
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

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A world that works well for most wouldn't be utopia...and it would certainly be better than what we have going now. That's what I'm aiming for. What works.

Seeing what doesn't work ...tossing off ideological blinders...is one of the ways to open oneself up to seeing what does or could work.

Insisting that what doesn't work does work ...it just needs a little tweaking, is a bit foolish. That's where I find most people to be. Our health care system was tweaked with the same predatory ins. firms running the show. ...it should have been thrown out.

Sort of like tweaking an absolute monarchy so it wouldn't have the clothing of an absolute monarchy.... while retaining an absolute monarchy. The French would still be waiting for their Republic had they done that.

Retired Monk

"Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I am with you on this Daniel. While I have been disappointed by many of the things (or lack thereof) which Obama has done since becoming POTUS, I don't buy into the whole- he is the EXACT same as Bush mantra.

The problem is, (and what many here seem to want to ignore, IMO) is that he is working with an incredibly conservative nation and a very rigid system. I don't think one guy comes in for one (or even 2) terms and magically changes that system. Its a gradual process. The US didn't become a neo-conservative wet dream overnight, it took 30 years of steadily moving the goal posts, to the system we see today.

He has made some significant changes, in a realitively short time, and while it may be not enough, or too slow for some on the left. The other side is rabid with rage, in what they see as a move to the dreaded socialist state. Where is the common ground between those sets of views?

I am not saying Obama shouldn't get us out of those insane wars, and establish a much more robust health care reform. However the system in America has become so entrenched by corporate interest, that trying to change it, isn't going to be easy (or for that matter safe).

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meljomur
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

We tend to forget that FDR, too, was facing a far-right nation when he became Pres.

We had the same structures in place then, as now, that brought about the Great Depression. Huge disparities in incomes as a result of government policy....just as now. An unregulated financial system...just as now. High- powered Banksters running amok...just as now.

The major difference being, we hadn't outsourced our economic infrastructure.

Somehow, FDR faced a right wing nation....and fixed it. Of course, he challenged power....he didn't cringe before it.

FDR QUOTE: "A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government. The collapse of 1929 showed up the despotism for what it was. .

The royalists of the economic order have conceded that political freedom was the business of the government, but they have maintained that economic slavery was nobody's business.

Today we stand committed to the proposition that freedom is no half-and-half affair. If the average citizen is guaranteed equal opportunity in the polling place, he must have equal opportunity in the market place.

These economic royalists complain that we seek to overthrow the institutions of America. What they really complain of is that we seek to take away their power. Our allegiance to American institutions requires the overthrow of this kind of power. In vain they seek to hide behind the flag and the Constitution. In their blindness they forget what the flag and the Constitution stand for. Now, as always, they stand for democracy, not tyranny; for freedom, not subjection; and against a dictatorship by mob rule and the over-privileged alike.

The brave and clear platform adopted by this convention, to which I heartily subscribe, sets forth that government in a modern civilization has certain inescapable obligations to its citizens, among which are protection of the family and the home, the establishment of a democracy of opportunity, and aid to those overtaken by disaster.

But the resolute enemy within our gates is ever ready to beat down our words unless in greater courage we will fight for them." - FDR

http://www.austincc.edu/lpatrick/his2341/fdr36acceptancespeech.htm

Obama needn't be a mouse hiding in a White House closet.

Retired Monk

"Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Personally poly, I think if FDR had to contest with the exact same type of media that we have today, his ability to move things in a positive direction would have been much more difficult.

Besides don't you think the whole world atmosphere was completely different then? For one thing the US wasn't the supreme military power yet, so its international influence was much more restricted (well until after WWII).

Personally, I don't believe Kucinich would have been much different of a leader than Obama (despite his promises), because its the system which needs to change, the man (or woman) is almost irrelevant at this point in America.

Having said that, when elections have to be thrown (2000, 2004) to get certain people in power, it says alot about the type of leader the powers that be want in place.

meljomur's picture
meljomur
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Thanks everyone.

Look I'm more left than right but more center than anything.

I understand that everyone on the left wants a public option and all banks to be broken up. I also understand everyone on the right wants the IRS to be destroyed and a flat tax or a sales tax to be instituted.

But to quote Bill Maher about thanking the Tea Party.

"I'm sure they're saying, 'What are you talking about Bill?'" he suggested. "'I was so against the health care bill I marched on Washington with tea bags hanging from my hat, dressed up in my Founding Fathers costume, with a picture of Hitler, you know, and Obama's face on him, screaming about his birth certificate.'"

"And America saw that," Maher concluded, "and said, 'What loons. We're going with the calm black man.

The reality that in these days and times, a complete overhaul of the american system is just impossible and it never really was.

You might hate incrementalism but that's the way things get done in America.

And trust me there are a lot of people that just aren't as interested in painting every step every day as a march towards destruction....

It's fun to talk about it on message boards and to watch highly partisan journalists bang on about it...but the reality is that most people are pretty reasonable and don't see health care reform as the end times and I could say that these same people are pissed off with government not because it tries to do things but because it's inefficient. Government is inefficient but I'll take one step in the right direction to help people rather than arguing about everything and not going anywhere.

AT THE SAME TIME THAT PROGRESSIVES HERO FDR was making the world better there were still tons of black people with less rights than an animal.

And these polls....don't even bother with them anymore. They don't tell us anything.

danieladamsmith's picture
danieladamsmith
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Polycarp:Our health care system was tweaked with the same predatory ins. firms running the show. ...it should have been thrown out.
I remember quite clearly when Congress gave health care to the insurance industry to manage. Hence, the term "managed care". It all started with the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973. It seemed innocuous enough at the time, but it turned out to be a monument to unintended consequences. The die was cast at that point. There could be no question what direction subsequent "tweaking" would take us.

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Art
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