What Helen Thomas Meant

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friendly_universe
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Thom as well as all of right wing media, the White House Press Corp and everyone else in the US is reading too much into what Helen Thomas said.  She said Israelis should get out of Palestine.  That's today, not British Palestine of 40 years ago.  She meant that Jews from Germany, Poland and the US who are currently migrating to Israel for whom illegal settlements are being built pushing further and further into the occupied Palestinian territories should go back to Germany, Poland and the US.  And I agree with her.  I don't think anything she actually said can be heard as meaning that Israelis who have lived in Israel for generations should now after 40+ years pick up and move back to their respective homelands. It's a very unfair misreading of her words to suggest otherwise.

 

 

 

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MikeK
MikeK's picture
friendly_universe wrote: Thom

friendly_universe wrote:

Thom as well as all of right wing media, the White House Press Corp and everyone else in the US is reading too much into what Helen Thomas said.  She said Israelis should get out of Palestine.  That's today, not British Palestine of 40 years ago.  She meant that Jews from Germany, Poland and the US who are currently migrating to Israel for whom illegal settlements are being built pushing further and further into the occupied Palestinian territories should go back to Germany, Poland and the US.  And I agree with her.  I don't think anything she actually said can be heard as meaning that Israelis who have lived in Israel for generations should now after 40+ years pick up and move back to their respective homelands. It's a very unfair misreading of her words to suggest otherwise.

You are absolutely right!

The Poland and Germany of today is quite a bit different from that of seventy years ago.  And Ms. Thomas also added the United States to her comment, which the sympathy suckers and Holocaust perpetuators chose to ignore.

I had occasion to speak with a member of the International Solidarity Movement who was present in Israel when Rachel Corrie was deliberately murdered (crushed by a bulldozer) while trying to prevent destruction of a Palestinian's home.  This young man asked me how I would like it if my family had inhabited a plot of land for generations and one day an Israeli, who was born in and lived in America for most of his life, and whose ethnic lineage was Ashkenazi with not a drop of Semitic blood in his veins, showed up with a squad of IDF troopers and said, "This land is mine.  God gave it to me.  You have two weeks to move or you'll be forcibly removed." 

He told me that is exactly what has been going on there.  He said the force used to remove Palestinians from their homes is ruthless and brutal.  And I deeply resent my government's support of the Nazi-like Israeli government, because these things are being done in my name -- and yours. 

Helen Thomas is right!  Those Polish, German and American expatriate Jews need to get the hell out of Palestine and leave those people alone.  Either that or the U.S. needs to sever all relations with Israel and let that aggressive little nation stand on its own.  

looneydoone
Am I allowed to agree, or do

Am I allowed to agree, or do free speech rights exclude any criticism of Israel and/or USA policy that unfailingly supports such atrocities as the "annexation" and occupation of lands ouside Israels established 1948 state boundaries, collective punishment of the Gaza population including blockade of such dangerous goods as coriander, cilantro,toilet paper, chocolate, pasta,jam/jelly,canned fruit, fruit juices........a "separation walll".......billions of USA tax dollars and weaponry subsidizing Israels actions without being branded a anti-semite, Jew hating "terrorist" supporter? Israel MUST remove itself from occupied territories for there to be peace.

Please spare me the religous argument about "chosen people" and God giving these lands to  the Jews........Jews got this land via UN Resolution 181

slabmaster
Thank God Helen Thomas has a

Thank God Helen Thomas has a group dedicated to spreading the word about "what she actually meant".

I thought it was funny when the Obama groupies started it after his stupid remarks.

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
She has since resigned, but

She has since resigned, but definitely has a few things so say upon exiting .

http://www.forward.com/articles/128497/  

Kate might recall Starbellied Sneetches, and plain bellied sneetches with none upon thares

Quote:

The Jewish communal world is obsessed with the notion of peoplehood and how to define it, promote it, strengthen it — especially how to encourage younger, unaffiliated Jews to feel part of a sprawling but interconnected global family. A new scientific study may offer some help.

Related Articles

Turns out that Jews the world over share many genetic traits that are distinct from other groups and date to ancient times. We are, said Gil Atzmon, an assistant professor at Albert Einstein College of Medicine and the study’s lead author, “identical by descent.”

Researchers have already shown the prevalence of, say, a Y chromosome shared by many kohanim, but Atzmon said that his study — published June 3 in The American Journal of Human Genetics — may be the most comprehensive study of genetic linkage to date. It examined three major groups of Jews in the Diaspora: Ashkenazim from Eastern Europe; Sephardim from Italian, Greek and Turkish ancestry, and Mizrahi Jews from Iraq and Syria. Participants were recruited from the New York region, Seattle, Athens, Rome and Israel, and must have had four grandparents from the same Jewish community.

The study did find some of what researchers call “admixture,” the mixing of Jewish genetic markers with those of non-Jews, through intermarriage and conversion. Still, “the Italian Jew is closer to the Iraqi Jew than to his Italian neighbor,” Atzmon told the Forward.

Scientifically, these findings are significant because they provide a context to further study the genetic origins of disease. While there are other people with genetic similarities caused by geographic isolation — the Amish and Sardinians are two examples — the Jewish genetic connection goes beyond geography, enforced by centuries of cultural and religious isolation.

Among Jews concerned about continuity, which these days means just about anyone in communal leadership, the findings of this study raise an uncomfortable question. If a similar genetic structure bound Jews together for centuries, provided concrete evidence of a tribal connection, of peoplehood, what will happen in the free-for-all that is America? “This is a very delicate question,” Atzmon acknowledged. “Assimilation can dilute the genomic sharing among Jews. It can take a couple of generations, but [at some point] the genomic is shuffled so much, it can’t be recognized.”

In an age when exclusivity is frowned upon and multiculturalism prized, some Jews may celebrate if the genetic distinctions fade away and are replaced by a more pluralistic definition of who we are — or at least, who our genes say we are. But breaking down the cultural and religious isolation that has characterized Jewish life since ancient times also contains risks. Science tells us that we have, indeed, been one people. Will we remain so?

Gnarlodious
Gnarlodious's picture
Interesting, douglaslee.

Interesting, douglaslee. Thanks for that. As the tribal genealogist, I have begun to see DNA profiling link my extended relatives to 3rd, 4th or 5th unknown cousins. It's an exciting time, since the Nazis destroyed every bit of Jewish documentation possible. Jews doing genealogy are at a huge disadvantage because so few archives are available, which is probably why the science of DNA profiling is so advanced among Jews.

meljomur
meljomur's picture
You know what has always been

You know what has always been fascinating to me, is how similar Jews and Arabs really are.  I dated an Arab man (from North Africa) for many years, and I was engaged to a Jewish man. 

Having experienced both sets of families and traditions firsthand, it always struck me as bizarre how much they hated one another when they have so much in common.

 

Gnarlodious
Gnarlodious's picture
"Hate each other", meljomur?

"Hate each other", meljomur? That sounds awfully presumptuous. But unfortunately that is the attitude coming from non-Jews and non-Arabs.

My biggest offense at Helen Thomas' tirade was that she is allegedly Lebanese by heritage, and here she is driving a wedge between the Lebanese and the Jews. (Let's get a war going). In reality, Lebanese (Phoenicians) and Jews were historically friends, trading partners and rivals. They shared a very similar land, language and culture. If Helen Thomas does not know that fact, she is ignorant of her Lebanese heritage. Unfortunately the Lebanese have been totally infiltrated by Arabs, who preach the "Let's get a war going" gospel as a political strategy. An alliance between Lebanon and Israel would be a positive development, but their Arab masters will never allow it.

So as offensive as her advice to the Jews was, her posturing as an anti-Israel Lebanese was a worse offense, in my eyes.

meljomur
meljomur's picture
Well Gnarl, I would say when

Well Gnarl, I would say when two groups of people are killing each other all over a rather small piece of land, that is hating one another.  Perhaps you have a different interpretation of the word?

But on a personal level, I have Arab friends and Jewish friends.  Some really do hate (and I don't use the word lightly) the others.  Some don't.  My (almost) Jewish father in-law, used to talk about Arabs as if they were some kind of demonic cult set on destroying the planet. (yes, it may have had a little to do with why I in the end didn't marry into that family)

And if I may, regarding the relationship between Israel and Lebanon, do you really think the current Israeli "masters" would ever allow them to be friends with the Lebanese either?

I don't believe Israel is an innocent victim, and quite frankly the fact that they convince so many people they are is pretty shocking to me.

 

calipendence
calipendence's picture
Gnarlodius...  As I noted in

Gnarlodius...  As I noted in another thread, Turks have also been traditionally friends of Israel and helped many German Jews escape the holocaust of wwii by encouraging many to immigrate to Turkey before WWII.  it would seem that history didn't stop this israel government from treating them like crap too in this latest incident.  i'm sure that Helen is aware of israel's history with both Lebanon and with Turkey and how we also treat israel now too, and all of those variables are contributing to her building frustration.  I can't see how any human being, let alone someone like her who utilizes her emotions frequently in her grilling presidents on other issues, can't be affected by these events with her background.  To me her not reacting to those events would signal a shift in her to more of a sociopathic personality, which I would have a harder time understanding.

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
This is from the first of the

This is from the first of the three links from 'Forward'-'The Known Unknowns'

In Jewish Genetic History, the Known Unknowns By David B. Goldstein Published August 19, 2009, issue of August 28, 2009.

Quote:

Indeed, even when we find Jewish ancestry in unexpected places, it will be difficult (perhaps even impossible) to confirm whether or not that ancestry comes via the lost tribes. That said, there are some interesting avenues of investigation to consider.

For starters, geneticists might undertake a thorough study of both Kurdish/Assyrian Jews and Iraqi Jews. While little is known about the origins of the former, I have always been drawn to the idea that the community is a remnant of the forced expulsions of the leading citizens of the northern kingdom of Israel after the Assyrian conquest. Iraqi Jews, with considerably more historical support, are thought to be descended from those Jews exiled by the Babylonians centuries later. Comparing these two populations could give us some important insights.

But before going hunting for lost tribes, it’s a good idea to know what you’re looking for: Namely, what does the ancestral genetic makeup of the ancient Israelites look like?

We might be able to piece that together. For instance, what genetic traits are found in common in lots of different Jewish groups? Those are the ones that are derived from their common ancestors rather than from different host populations among which they have lived since. We could also look at populations that are thought to be descended from groups that never left the vicinity of the ancestral Israelite homeland. Or we could look at the Jews from the Tunisian island of Djerba, who are thought to have resided there for perhaps as long as 2,500 years. After cobbling together a genetic picture of the ancient Israelite population, we can compare the genomes of present-day populations to it.

Genetics will never be able to solve these mysteries by itself. But along with shards of pottery, passages from the Bible and other clues, genetic research can help us put together the pieces of the intricate puzzle that is the history of the Jewish people.

The author also includes the Khazar part. He answers, too, why do Jews look so different from one another? Which brings to mind the comment Reagan made to the Prime Minister of Lebanon when he met him for the first time, "You look like Danny Thomas".

Gnarlodious
Gnarlodious's picture
calipendence wrote:Turks have

calipendence wrote:
Turks have also been traditionally friends of Israel and helped many German Jews escape the holocaust of wwii by encouraging many to immigrate to Turkey before WWII.  it would seem that history didn't stop this israel government from treating them like crap too in this latest incident.
This whole diplomatic rift bagan back during the Haitian relief effort when the Turkish television reported that the IDF medical team was harvesting organs from the earthquake victims. And then they refused to apologize... but there is a strategy behind the accusations.

Kemal Ataturk was an inspired secular leader who pushed Turkey kicking and screaming into the 20th century. In the decades since his reforms, Turkey has slowly regressed to the Caliphate it once was. Just last year Turkey barely defeated (by national referendum) an effort to declare Turkey an Islamic Theocracy (meaning Shaaria law). Erdogan himself is a Muslim and he knows the increasingly Islamic population of Turkey offers him more political power.

The spat could get ugly if as threatened, the next "humanitarian flotilla" is escorted by the Turkish navy. That would be a dead giveaway that the flotilla is just another provocation to war. Of course, if you believe Israel is evil and should take the blame for every bad thing happening in the world, I can't change that belief.

Gnarlodious
Gnarlodious's picture
That is fascinating,

That is fascinating, douglaslee. Especially the part about these DNA studies refuting wacky claims that the Jews are descended from Turks, Khazars or Azerbaijanis. I think, and always have thought, that these people conjure up this stuff to start a culthood. They collect stupid people into their belief system where it takes on a reality of its own. I see the same wacky belief systems run wild in the American society, usually as a pretense for fundraising campaigns.

Unfortunately, no amount of hard science or facts can defeat these delusional movements.

jeffbiss
jeffbiss's picture
slab, Quote:Thank God Helen

slab,

Quote:
Thank God Helen Thomas has a group dedicated to spreading the word about "what she actually meant".

I thought it was funny when the Obama groupies started it after his stupid remarks.

And it appears that what she actually meant isn't being spread by right-wingers. That doesn't surprise me though, as they seem to misinterpret everything they hear or read to mean what they believe it to mean. That's why there's little discussion to be had with those who consider themselves conservative, which is sad for many who are not right-wingers, their first interpretation is the only valid interpretation. This also illustrates their oversimplified world view that doesn't understand that words and symbols are inexact and sometimes not constructed with precision.

This is the continual haunt that civilizations must suffer with.

meljomur
meljomur's picture
I am trying to paste a photo

I am trying to paste a photo here from my desktop and am having problems.

Anyone have a suggestion, or is it not possible to link photos.

 

Gnarlodious
Gnarlodious's picture
melj:If you could paste fotos

melj:If you could paste fotos from your computer it would mean the server would have to store the file. Which would be bulky and possibly a violation of copyright law.

So the only way to do it is upload the foto to another server and then link the image into this page.

PeeWee Returns
PeeWee Returns's picture
meljomur wrote: I am trying

meljomur wrote:

I am trying to paste a photo here from my desktop and am having problems.

Anyone have a suggestion, or is it not possible to link photos.

I think Thom's webbies have suppressed this functionality.  I've tried html image codes and they work in preview, but once you publish the images don't show up.  I'm not quite sure what the thinking is behind that, but hey, we're guests here and if that's what Thom wants OK.

meljomur
meljomur's picture
Alright, thanks for the

Alright, thanks for the help.  Too bad, it was the best photo I think I have ever taken, and its rather appropriate to this discussion.

Oh well.

Art
Art's picture
The old fashioned way still

The old fashioned way still works. I use photobucket.com to upload photos. You can copy the URL for the photo and put it into a link in your posting. It's free. It's a little bit of work, but gets easy with a little bit of practice. The one part I had trouble with was re-sizing the photo in photobucket. Just haven't looked into that enough yet.

MikeK
MikeK's picture
Here is a really good photo

Here is a really good photo re-sizer.  http://www.resize2mail.com/

JimA
JimA's picture
An Emperor-Has-No-Clothes

An Emperor-Has-No-Clothes moment:What's striking about the reaction to Thomas' comment is the hysteria. She alluded to an unspeakable fact. Europeans and Americans, born in Europe and the U.S., can settle in Israel in nice new homes built on the rubble of Palestinean homes that have been there for generations. The ugly truth is parading naked across the media, garbed in imaginary righteousness, and no one - except Helen Thomas - is willing to openly admit it.

Rodger97321
Rodger97321's picture
Larry Ari & Date

Larry Ari & Date manipulation

Lawrencium:  synthetic, radioactive and apparently a robust coward for whom no proposition is too distasteful.

Fleeing in haste before his role in the treasonous exposure of an American undercover agent could be completed – without the slightest care for how many past, current and future intelligence gathering operations had been undermined.  Because now everyone That Agent had ever been known to associate with over the past two decades could be elevated from “maybe” to “probably” on everyone else’s lists, and by association, everyone they ever associated with, pretty much unraveling hundreds of careers and operations.

So his not being in Federal Prison becomes in itself fairly good advertising for his media consultant company.   Worried about you image because you’ve done terrible things?  No Problem, hire Larry.

Professional Sportsman with illegal steroid use? – no problem.

Consultant to an NFL team (hmmm...)

Conservative Canadian politician accused of bribery? – no problem.

Of course, you know you’re toxic when someone has to say they’ve dropped you because they’d rather be known for multiple adulteries (old Book #7) , than be connected with you.

So this latest stunt shouldn’t come as any surprise, but the thing about unimaginable unconscionable acts is that there, well, unimaginable (to most of us).

Typical Fingerprints:

Cowardly acts:  Attacking an 89 year old lady in public and making it seem like she attacked him.

Disingenuous presentation:  Changing Chronology – making it seem like a May 27, 2010 interview happened after – or in reaction to – the May 31, 2010 piracy homicides.

Going by your 2003 title, instead of a more current position, like:  Board Member of the Republican Jewish Coalition.

Not explained (or asked) is why the Rabbi held onto the footage for over a week.  Was he shopping it – or had it gone into a vault for later use?  As a teacher, what does he hope his students will learn from his example?

 

Dusty
Dusty's picture
Thom's has repeatedly lied

Thom's has repeatedly lied about what Helen Thomas said. The video of the so-called interview makes it perfectly clear that "Get the hell out of Palestine" was a response focussed on Israel not Jews. There is no rational support for Israel to continue occupying Palestinian land. The question about "Where should they go?" was focussed on Jews and her reply sugested they immigrate to other countries. My impression was criticism over Israel being a religious state. I suppose the Vatican understands her remark on that note better then every day people.

Gnarlodious - non-Jews and non-Arabs.

I trust you're not suggesting that nobody could understand the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis? It's pretty clear. Zionists, with the help of other countries with nefarious intent simply bullied their way in to Palestine displacing Palestinians along the way. Palestinians did not have a say in the matter.

Gnarlodious - My biggest offense at Helen Thomas' tirade was that she is allegedly Lebanese by heritage, and here she is driving a wedge between the Lebanese and the Jews.

Wow! Do you think the Lebanese might be influenced by the Israeli carpet bombing of their country and dropping millions of cluster bombs on them? Helen Thomas' remarks about Israel getting the hell out of the occupied territories are widely shared. AIPAC does not allow criticism of Israel of any kind. Frankly, I'm incensed that my country has a relationship with a terrorist state.

Gnarlodious - So as offensive as her advice to the Jews was, her posturing as an anti-Israel Lebanese was a worse offense, in my eyes.

That pretty much amounts to histrionics. Wanting Israel to stop spying and corrupting my already corrupt government does not make me anti-Israel, although, I am anti-Israeli policies regarding their apartheid treatment of Palestinians and their efforts to starve them to death. It is so US gov't vs Native Americans redux.