Bad News about the Bush Tax Cuts

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Art
Art's picture

The right-wing lie machine has apparently hoodwinked a majority into believing that the Bush tax cuts should be extended in order to help the economy, according to this right-wing Rasmussen poll.

It matters not that businesses are sitting on a trillion dollars that they refuse to invest.  It matters not that the income of the top 1% has almost tripled under Republican tax policy, and still no economic boost.  (Isn't this where "trickle-down" is supposed to kick in)?

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jeffbiss
jeffbiss's picture
Ah, the power of myth over

Ah, the power of myth over stupid people. Trickle-down economic theory has been proven wrong yet it still holds the imagination of idiots. mostly due to the fact that many people don't trust government as a consequence of right-wing control and operating in accordance with right-wing ideology that is essentially pro-business. For some reason Americans haven't been able to draw the cause and effect from allowing private money to fund our elections and provide jobs to law makers and their staff to the fact that business interests are taken care of rather then government providing for the general welfare.

As for the rich and investment, I think that that has less to do with refusing than not seeing the demand to warrant it.

Art
Art's picture
Quote:As for the rich and

Quote:
As for the rich and investment, I think that that has less to do with refusing than not seeing the demand to warrant it.
Quite right.

polycarp2
If there is no need for

If there is no need for productive use  of capital in the economy, surplus money is plowed into Wall Street . It disapears into financial paper...some of which is nothing more than gambling...like derivatives.

A business isn't going to expand...create more jobs...when consumer incomes are so low they can't buy what's already being produced..

More to the top...less to the bottom...slows economic activity. If you are at the top, that doesn't matter. Income comes from trading paper. rather than trading goods/services.. Trading paper is "the job".. The real economy is irrelevant.. If you're in that position, trickle down works very, very well.. Most aren't....the majority don't earn their living trading financial paper.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

meljomur
meljomur's picture
My simple response to this

My simple response to this (and one no conservative has addressed) is if the Bush tax cuts were so successful than why was the economy in a MUCH better state (2000) before his administration than after (2008)???

Shouldn't those tax cuts have made the economy stronger?

stwo
stwo's picture
I hope they are allowed to

I hope they are allowed to expire in total.  We'd find out if it was only the rich who got cuts pretty quickly.

Paleo-con
meljomur wrote: My simple

meljomur wrote:

My simple response to this (and one no conservative has addressed) is if the Bush tax cuts were so successful than why was the economy in a MUCH better state (2000) before his administration than after (2008)???

Shouldn't those tax cuts have made the economy stronger?

Okay, Mel, I'll help you out.  It was apparantly missed while you were watching the news, but a small event happened on 9/11.  Take your time, look it up, and come back to us if you still don't get it.

While you are doing your homework.  Take a look at how the Bush tax cuts turned a downward spiraling economy into just a bad economy.  Even in your book, that should count as "stronger".  If not for the goofy Republicans spending money like a school boy in a candy shop, the economy may have even graduated from stronger to good.

meljomur
meljomur's picture
Would that be 9/11 and the 2

Would that be 9/11 and the 2 VERY EXPENSIVE wars which resulted after.

I have never read any thing which adequately shows that the Bush tax cuts helped the economy.

You pay less taxes, you get fewer services, that's the way it works.

I mean imagine if you will, all the expendable income circulating around America if you had a nationalized health care system and people didn't have to either buy their own health care and/or subsidize some substandard policy they received from work.

I can't tell you how many Brits. have asked me how most Americans can afford health care.  I just respond, well most of them are about one real health disaster away from bankruptcy.

But hey they did get a tax cut during the Bush year!!!  ;)

Paleo-con
meljomur wrote: Would that be

meljomur wrote:

Would that be 9/11 and the 2 VERY EXPENSIVE wars which resulted after.

I have never read any thing which adequately shows that the Bush tax cuts helped the economy.

Yea!! You do get it.  I am glad you were able to answer your own question about why the economy stubled.  I will now defend you against those other conservatives that claim you are too hard headed.

Oops! You sllipped backwards.  I will bet you a shiny penny, that you have read plenty of material that shows how the Bush tax cuts helped.  I will bet a shiny nickle that you have dismissed all of it.  After all, things that don't agree with you must be wrong.

drew013
drew013's picture
Maybe the bush administration

Maybe the bush administration should have taken the repeated warnings re 9/11 a little more... wait a minute let's just say they shouldn't have dismissed them and then avoid Washington until after it happened.

I mean, unless they wanted a convienient little EXCUSE for the economic snafu we are currently in, as they had accurately predicted what those tax cuts were going to cause.

Art
Art's picture
Quote:Okay, Mel, I'll help

Quote:
Okay, Mel, I'll help you out.  It was apparantly missed while you were watching the news, but a small event happened on 9/11.  Take your time, look it up, and come back to us if you still don't get it.
That was clever. 

Quote:
Take a look at how the Bush tax cuts turned a downward spiraling economy into just a bad economy.
Yeah, Credit Default Swap bubbles can give that appearance. The economy was hardly spiraling down in 2000. Just retracing after the tech bubble burst. (This chart shows how Bush 1's negative GDP growth was mush worse that the little dips under Clinton and early Bush II. Then the HUGE dip left by Bush II. ). Now we are heading toward a depression. WWII and high marginal taxes took us into the best economy we have ever had. Bush's off-budget war and low marginal taxes have given us this. Doesn't that tell you something?

Your scholarly analysis doesn't really address Mel's point.

Quote:
 if the Bush tax cuts were so successful then why was the economy in a MUCH better state (2000) before his administration than after (2008)??? Shouldn't those tax cuts have made the economy stronger?

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
http://www.counterpunch.org/n

http://www.counterpunch.org/nader08062010.html  The banks that got trillions are happy to sit on the money, loan it to credit worthy businesses that hire people and you don't get as good a  return from 0% fed money, as from hedge fund CDS, CDOs, derivitives. NY rebates the money they levy from casino transactions.

J.J
J.J's picture
Bush may be many things, but

Bush may be many things, but when it came to the economy his positive spin and optimistic speeches did far more to alleviate the downward spiraling economy post Internet bubble and 9/11 than his tax cut did. Today with the Obama Doom and Gloom around every corner and the Dem incompetent leadership. Everyone is scared shitless to do anything. Almost all of the Nation’s economy is driven by Consumer confidence. Obama does not inspire confidence.

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
Quote:What most New Yorkers

Quote:
What most New Yorkers do not know is that for about a century there has been a state stock transfer tax on purchases of securities. This year, this tax, similar to ones imposed in 30 other countries, will amount to about $16 billion. Amazingly, since 1979, this tax has been instantly rebated by New York State back to the brokers or clearinghouses who paid it. A 100% rebate every year for the bailed out industry that caused the recession and its immense human damage.

Obviously the stock exchanges and their brokers wield big political power. Flush with arrogance, bailouts and profits, they have no shame. So after blocking a tax on those unconscionable bonuses that outraged so many Americans, the securities industry has made sure that neither the Democratic nor Republican candidates for Governor utter a peep about retaining this $16 billion in tax revenues to get the state out of its dire straits.

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
Confidence won't pay bills if

Confidence won't pay bills if you have no job. Confidence works for Trump customers, Bernie Madoff clients, but some businesses require real cash, currency, or legitimate contracts.

Confidence ebbs when accounting standards and practices suspend mark to market, and allows balance sheets to count confidence as profit.

J.J
J.J's picture
You are referring to a small

You are referring to a small segment of the Population. Hence doom and gloom.

Consumer Confidence Index 10 year

Everyone is scared and depressed and there is nobody in leadership being optimistic. It would be better if they just shut the hell up.

meljomur
meljomur's picture
J.J wrote:You are referring

J.J wrote:
You are referring to a small segment of the Population. Hence doom and gloom. Consumer Confidence Index 10 year Everyone is scared and depressed and there is nobody in leadership being optimistic. It would be better if they just shut the hell up.

I never thought I would see the day you would return.  But obviously the draw was too strong.

 

J.J
J.J's picture
Return? Just who do you

Return? Just who do you think I am?

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
Maybe you could get fox to do

Maybe you could get fox to do a Tony Robbins prime time show, he makes everyone feel good, kind of like an Amway convention.

Sarbannes Oxley was challenged jun 28/2010 in front of SCOTUS. The Free Enterprise Institute sueing. Only problem they had was the appointment of directors  of the GSE coming from SEC instead of the President. But SCOTUS was unanimous against fraudulent accounting.

Other countries have similar oversight regulation, free enterprise institute said SOX made them less competitive, fraud is cheaper, claim deposits you don't have, earnings you don't make, and ignore costs altogether, WSJ calls it innovation.

 

meljomur
meljomur's picture
J.J wrote:Bush may be many

J.J wrote:
Bush may be many things, but when it came to the economy his positive spin and optimistic speeches did far more to alleviate the downward spiraling economy post Internet bubble and 9/11 than his tax cut did. Today with the Obama Doom and Gloom around every corner and the Dem incompetent leadership. Everyone is scared shitless to do anything. Almost all of the Nation’s economy is driven by Consumer confidence. Obama does not inspire confidence.

Yes, Obama REALLY should give the advice Bush did after 9/11, and tell everyone to just get out there and go SHOPPING.  You know nothing makes me forget "my" problems more than increasing my credit card balance!!

Also, I think burying one's head in the sand is definitely UNDER RATED!

polycarp2
Walmart doesn't accept

Walmart doesn't accept confidence in payment for their goods. They seem to insist on money. Some don't get that many people don't have any.

"More than 1 million American households are likely to lose their homes to foreclosure this year, as lenders work their way through a huge backlog of borrowers who have fallen behind on their loans."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/15/foreclosure-rate-american_n_647130.html

Those folks aren't going to be out looking to buy a new carpet.

The good news is,, unemployment rates aren't rising. Those who have run out of unemployment insurance are counted as working. Wage cuts remain on-going for many of those who actually are.

Confidence doesn't take the place of cash.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"