Time of the season

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Well, there's another national election coming up so you know what that means- time to sucker Progressives AGAIN.

I'm 58 years old now and have been a Progressive since I was 16 years old. You'd almost think that I'd be used to being suckered by the Democratic Party before another election...but I'm NOT. See, they have this hodge-podge quiltwork of groups that they NEED to patch together before an election in order for us to keep the villainous Repugnicans out of that office. Blacks, unions, gays, Hispanics, dimwit Independents, and Progressives.

Progressives are the most abused group of the bunch. We're like battered spouses who fall for this every time. "Come on, Baby, I promise I WON'T beat you after you give me some more money to go drinkin' again."

Right after the Democratic politician wins the office, suddenly they never heard of Progressives and their promises to them, made during the passion of the campaign, and they turn into DLC corporate whores and Republican Light politicians...AGAIN.

Just ONCE before I die I'd like to see a damned Democrat elected to the presidency or Congress become MORE Progressive after the election than while they were a candidate. Doing the bait-and-switch move on us every time is really getting old. And having the Rahm Emanuel attitude of "Fuck them, who else they gonna vote for? We suck less than the Republicans" is not helpful.

President Obama could really have been another face to add to Mt. Rushmore if he had just flipped off the Republicans and jammed as many things through Congress (under reconciliation in the Senate if need be) as he could in his first two years in office. But no, he had to waste time asking Republicans if, please sir, don't beat me up and take my lunch money again.

I've heard this editorial line on several radio talk and TV shows, but that's just it. You only hear it from pundits, never from the stupid politicians. Why CAN'T they get it through their slow witted heads that if they kicked ass and took names, like Republicans do, that they might not BE a one term office holder and out, especially in swing districts. I can't begin to tell you how sick I am of having elected Democrats listening to the SAME damned consultants that have run the party since the beginning of the Clinton administration.

People, even Progressives, admire and want RESULTS, not spineless pussies who just assume the public will somehow pick up the good vibes in the air about their high-minded attitudes and intentions. Look at the popularity of Alan Grayson and Anthony Weiner- guys who left no doubt about what they thought and told everybody so.

The Republican party can't get on its knees fast enough to cater to its extreme base while Democrats tell their's to go fuck themselves. What's wrong with this picture???

So, prepare for Progressives to be the darlings of the ball again...until after the election. Then it's the same hangover and amnesia afterwards.

Corvallis Carl's picture
Corvallis Carl
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Comments

Less and lesser people are voting in the elections.Do you know what happens when people stop voting? They`re getting ready for a "revolution", or the system to "implode".Amnesia & hangover will come from one of these two one day.(If smart people don`t become strong)

tayl44's picture
tayl44
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Hey Carl, neighbor and all, don't get depressed and don't whine. I have a decade on you, and those of us proud to be Progressives and to have thought against the Neocon stream for the past 30 years have to accept the consequences of being out in front. It takes awhile for the truth to settle in and for the ways to avoid it to be tried. Power does not concede to reality or truth.

The reason I rebut Progressives who complain about Obama is that we ought to know better. If you have been doing this for any time at all, you have to get the corporate center and the power of the empire. We have a long, hard slog here, not something an election or even a 'movement' will deliver easily. We are going against the biggest pile of money ever backed by the most guns ever.

Grief for the loss of American democracy and Constitutional government has us down and out. We need to transform that grief into anger focussed to produce change. But we also need to learn from our grief that what we had fixed our stars to was not the last word on politics, economics or morality. Will America survive? I have to declare that I only care if a moral America survives, otherwise our job is rescue from the dying Deathstar.

Obama could not have been elected were he the radical challenger we would cheer. I think his frustration with the base is unfortunate, but I understand why people resent the actions of their friends more than their enemies. They know the aholes are not going to help them, so there is no disappointment. When our friends and allies don't agree to follow the script we have written for them, we feel betrayed. When our opponents resist, we accept that as given.

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DRC
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

CC utters sentiments that I share as well. I feel frustrated because I know how we are controlled by the two-party-only system, good cop, bad cop, stuff. But until we get instant runoff voting we are going to have to bite the bullet and vote democratic because republicans are simply out of the question and out of their minds. We need to push our democratic reps to introduce a bill that gives the elections back to the people. I've listed the steps plenty of times here so will forgoe this for now.

Right now elections are about raising a ton of money in order to slander the opponent and the media is more than happy to be on the receiving end of all this loot. As CC says, once we succeed in keeping too many republicans out, then we have to deal with our conservative/corporate democrats. We need multiple parties with multiple candidates squaring off over the real issues, not perennial wedge issues and we need these people debating right up to voting day. None of this corporate media screening of the candidates for us again.

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Choco
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Well, I'm not disillusioned enough to not vote, but if there was any chance that got through to the system as a protest I would. I voted for Nader two elections in a row when I lived in San Diego because my vote was thrown away anyway in a hopelessly Conservative district (CA 52nd, Duncan Hunter, who by most accounts is WAY more corrupt than Duke Cunnigham ever was).

The main problem, which Choco alluded to, is the FUBAR two party system and I was trying to do my part to help get an alternative going. It's impossible in this country. Third Parties are a novelty to trot out every four years as a noble, but losing, proposition.

Actually, in one specific way I'm glad the Tea Partiers are doing as well as they are- if they further dilute and split the Repugnican vote even disillusioned Democrats might get pissed enough to try something that bold...for good.

I've been working on third party names, but haven't hit the right one yet. I like Not PIG Party where PIG stands for Passionate Ignorant and Gullible. Ahh, I'll keep working on it.

And BTW, where has all the money gone that I keep checking off on my 1040 IRS forms for "Presidential Election Campaign" gone for the last x number of years???

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Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am
Quote Corvallis Carl:

I've been working on third party names, but haven't hit the right one yet. I like Not PIG Party where PIG stands for Passionate Ignorant and Gullible. Ahh, I'll keep working on it.

How about People's Party, easy slogan, party of the people by the people for the people, with one disclaimer, the people's party does not recognize corporations as people--or persons!

Choco's picture
Choco
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Choco:

How about People's Party, easy slogan, party of the people by the people for the people, with one disclaimer, the people's party does not recognize corporations as people--or persons!

There is some humorous Groucho Marx type irony in that statement. Once the People's Party creates a charter, they become a corporation. At which point they no longer recognize themselves as people.

I think I understand which type of corporations you would exclude (for profit big business), so there is no need to explain that part. I just thought the simple irony was amusing.

Paleo-con
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

carl go read jonah goldbergs book"liberal fascism" or see him on youtube

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FoxMulder
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Apr. 22, 2010 10:15 am

Jonah Goldberg is a blowhard with shit for brains. We have gutted his "liberal fascism" nonsense several times in the past few years.

Let us stipulate that within any movement there may be fundamentalists or those whose ideological commitment becomes 'authoritarian' and uncompromising. The personality of the biblical prophets did not bend toward high social skills and featured unpopular and uncouth guys. Speaking truth to power can be very bad politics, but it can contribute to the larger effort.

It is also true that polemics are not good for listening and changing. When you are in a rhetorical fight, you don't concede much. You are hesitant to grant a point to the other side. "Liberals" who cling to Enlightenment epistemology join Conservatives who also want everyone else to make rational decisions. Being open to change may be easier for a Liberal, but it is not a given.

Carl, my problem is that all my experience here in our home town with "Third Party" organizing becomes a rump group of old activists who complain. I have yet to see any "organizing" or effective mobilization. We do "witnesses" as if standing by the courthouse against war were political action. We do not have an activist community doing anything.

My advice to you is to get active taking over our local Democratic Party organization. The party is lying there waiting to be taken. Being duopoly lite offers no future, and now that money has gone to absurd levels, the other means of politics are even more important. We are not going to match or even compete in the money game, so let's beat them in the ground game.

I have no problem with protest votes when we have the luxury. I have no problem with sound analysis of the flaws in our political system or with the indictment of a rogue economy. But I think it is time to get over our pouting about the duopoly and refusal to see the differences that make Democrats worth supporting or working with for Progressive goals. I would rather be working on the reforms and alternatives than to try to defend this system or keep it working for any significant amount of time.

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DRC
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

DRC,I agree with your ideas.I would add,we progressives need to have and keep the spirit of "We Have Only Just Begone To Fight".And we need to support an idea and people that is "uncorruptable". We know everybody has a "price",we need people with a very high price.(MLK price)

tayl44's picture
tayl44
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Choco:

How about People's Party, easy slogan, party of the people by the people for the people, with one disclaimer, the people's party does not recognize corporations as people--or persons!

Except that Conservative Buttheads would swarm that name like 10 year-olds on the ball at a soccer game for being a bunch of Socailist/Communist/Marxist gay bed-wetters.

How 'bout Paying Attention to Reality Party? Now that would be refreshing.

Corvallis Carl's picture
Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am
Quote FoxMulder:

carl go read jonah goldbergs book"liberal fascism" or see him on youtube

If I want to read an example of how to reach invalid conclusions from flawed premises, I will. Thanks for the suggestion.

I suggest that you read Elements of Style.

Corvallis Carl's picture
Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am
Quote DRC:

Carl, my problem is that all my experience here in our home town with "Third Party" organizing becomes a rump group of old activists who complain. I have yet to see any "organizing" or effective mobilization. We do "witnesses" as if standing by the courthouse against war were political action. We do not have an activist community doing anything.

Jeez, DRC, I'm not sure I want to be part of a "rump" group. 8^)

But I take your point. Us survivors of the 60s have a hard enough time with In Your Facebook, much less mobilizing ourselves and youths.

Quote DRC:

My advice to you is to get active taking over our local Democratic Party organization. The party is lying there waiting to be taken. Being duopoly lite offers no future, and now that money has gone to absurd levels, the other means of politics are even more important. We are not going to match or even compete in the money game, so let's beat them in the ground game.

I'll be at Squirrels tonight from 5-7 p.m. for Drinking Liberally. Have I seen you there already? Or will I tonight?

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Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am

It even fits into First Thursday. I am free of household duties tonite, so yup.

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DRC
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote DRC:

It even fits into First Thursday. I am free of household duties tonite, so yup.

My wife & I were there, but left kinda early, about 6:30pm. Were you the late arrival as we were leaving? I had on the hat and red jacket as we left. Also gray beard. 8^)

Corvallis Carl's picture
Corvallis Carl
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Quote Corvallis Carl:
Quote DRC:

It even fits into First Thursday. I am free of household duties tonite, so yup.

My wife & I were there, but left kinda early, about 6:30pm. Were you the late arrival as we were leaving? I had on the hat and red jacket as we left. Also gray beard. 8^)

No wonder he missed you. He was looking for a blue faced baboon.

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Choco
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Choco:
Quote DRC:

It even fits into First Thursday. I am free of household duties tonite, so yup.

Quote Corvallis Carl:

My wife & I were there, but left kinda early, about 6:30pm. Were you the late arrival as we were leaving? I had on the hat and red jacket as we left. Also gray beard. 8^)

No wonder he missed you. He was looking for a blue faced baboon.

Hey! That's an old pic of me when I was a kid. I'm much more distinguished looking now. 8^)

Stop me before I subquote again!

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Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am

Yeah, I had to go to Salem and got back about 6, and when I got there the keg needed changing, so I was at the bar for awhile. The question I have is why don't you publicize this to attract anyone other than Benton Dems?

There was a lot of other stuff going on yesterday.

DRC's picture
DRC
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Corvallis Carl:
Quote Choco:
Quote DRC:

It even fits into First Thursday. I am free of household duties tonite, so yup.

Quote Corvallis Carl:

My wife & I were there, but left kinda early, about 6:30pm. Were you the late arrival as we were leaving? I had on the hat and red jacket as we left. Also gray beard. 8^)

No wonder he missed you. He was looking for a blue faced baboon.

Hey! That's an old pic of me when I was a kid. I'm much more distinguished looking now. 8^)

Stop me before I subquote again!

OK. Stop

Choco's picture
Choco
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote DRC:

Yeah, I had to go to Salem and got back about 6, and when I got there the keg needed changing, so I was at the bar for awhile. The question I have is why don't you publicize this to attract anyone other than Benton Dems?

There was a lot of other stuff going on yesterday.

OK. I think I know what you look like now. I'm sorry I missed the chance to speak with you before we had to leave. It's funny because I'm normally one of the last ones to break up after our get-togethers- long winded old fart. 8^) We had (for probably the first time on our 31+ years of marriage) two social functions to go to that night. After the Drinking Liberally we had a Cancer Support Group soiree.

I hope you can come to the next meeting, Don. It's always the first Thursday of the month at Squirrels, 5-7pm. If you want an e-mail reminder write to Drinking Liberally - Corvallis <corvallis@drinkingliberally.org> and Ann (the loose leader of this chapter who was sitting across from you) can add you to her list.

I'm just a fairly recent member to Drinking Liberally here. I first attended a meeting in about June last. It is kind of an under promoted group, but nationwide, as far as I know. More info here:

http://livingliberally.org/drinking/ I love it. I just saw that there is now a Tokyo chapter!

I first heard about Drinking Liberally on Thom's national radio show about 8 months ago.

If we haven't scared off all other readers of this thread with our boring local chat, they should join a chapter around their city ot town and go. It's a fun and livley group of people who have gathered up the courage to go meet in public and talk about something other than Faux News and what Sarah and Beck said today.

Cheers mate. Carl.

Corvallis Carl's picture
Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am
Quote Choco:
Quote Corvallis Carl:
Quote Choco:
Quote DRC:

It even fits into First Thursday. I am free of household duties tonite, so yup.

Quote Corvallis Carl:

My wife & I were there, but left kinda early, about 6:30pm. Were you the late arrival as we were leaving? I had on the hat and red jacket as we left. Also gray beard. 8^)

No wonder he missed you. He was looking for a blue faced baboon.

Hey! That's an old pic of me when I was a kid. I'm much more distinguished looking now. 8^)

Stop me before I subquote again!

OK. Stop

Alright, so now we're in some Moebius loop of demented humor where I'm supposed to say "No, you stop first?" I refuse to play along. Dammit. I already did.

OK. You asked for this, Choco:

Quote Future Corvallis Carl:

In the future I'm going to say, "Come on. Seriously. You stop now!"

Corvallis Carl's picture
Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am
Quote Choco:
Quote Corvallis Carl:
Quote DRC:

It even fits into First Thursday. I am free of household duties tonite, so yup.

My wife & I were there, but left kinda early, about 6:30pm. Were you the late arrival as we were leaving? I had on the hat and red jacket as we left. Also gray beard. 8^)

No wonder he missed you. He was looking for a blue faced baboon.

OK, I let this go at first, but now it's slowly driving me crazy. In the interest of primate biology taxonomy- my avatar pic is a Mandrill. Not a Baboon. Here are some pix of my other family members http://tinyurl.com/2ehnz9u Who says Nature doesn't have a sense of humor??

There I feel better now. Stupid Liberal scientific OCD. 8^)

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Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am

Hey Carl, thanks for the link to Drinking Liberally. I just joined my local chapter here in London. Although I see they meet on Tuesday nights, which I guess means they probably aren't people with elementary school aged kids...

Oh well, I may try to attend some time. Its always nice to meet like minded people for a nice a drink and intelligent (progressive) conversation.

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meljomur
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Carl, I remember one of your clan had a singing voice, Barbara was her name I think.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Thanks Carl for info.

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tayl44
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote meljomur:

Hey Carl, thanks for the link to Drinking Liberally. I just joined my local chapter here in London. Although I see they meet on Tuesday nights, which I guess means they probably aren't people with elementary school aged kids...

Oh well, I may try to attend some time. Its always nice to meet like minded people for a nice a drink and intelligent (progressive) conversation.

Good deal, Melissa! And...you're welcome.

I wish I could attend one of your meetings in London, too. May be sometime. 8^)

Corvallis Carl's picture
Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am
Quote douglaslee:

Carl, I remember one of your clan had a singing voice, Barbara was her name I think.

Close enough for humor's sake.

Corvallis Carl's picture
Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am
Quote tayl44:

Thanks Carl for info.

My pleasure, Jessie. Come visit our meeting sometime here in Oregon.

Corvallis Carl's picture
Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am

Carl,thanks for invite.The same for Florida,but be reminded,Oregon is much more progressive.We`re learning.

tayl44's picture
tayl44
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote tayl44:

Carl,thanks for invite.The same for Florida,but be reminded,Oregon is much more progressive.We`re learning.

Pockets of Oregon are progressive, like many other states. They tend to be more populated and educated, but are relatively small in total area of a state. Oregon is different than many states in that our Progessive population outnumbers the Conservatives altogether. We are generally considered a "blue" state, but have several counties go for Conservative candidates often, especially in the more rural counties east of the coastal range of mountains.

Like my town, Corvalls, many Progessive concentrations are usually college towns, both big and small. I'm always amused when I look at county-by-county breakdowns of affiliation nationwide how the Progessives are often concentrated in relatively small surface area regions.

I remember looking at the Red/Blue states in the 2004 election maps and Jon Stewart joking that Progessives are hudling around the coasts and bodies of water.

Big swaths of the South turned Republican, from previously voting Democrat, back during the days of President Johson and the Great Society as a backlash to Civil Rights. It's been a long road for a lot of states to turn Blue again after being Red for so long.

So, it's not so much a matter of "learning" as remembering. 8^)

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Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am

Carl,I agree with your view of country.Living here in the south,i think learning and remembering is both needed.The south is really more blue then the rest,it's ruling-class treat people like a "third world country".I know,the ruling class in the rest of the country isn`t much better.But thanks to post like yours and Thom website,we`re learning and becoming a human family.

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tayl44
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I'm a newby to the Chat room, so I hope I don't fumble my point.

Last night I was watching MSNBC when my 42 year old daughter asked me why I watch "politics". She said something to the effect of: "I'll be so glad when this election is over so I won't hear anymore about it. Just let me get back to my regular TV programs without them breaking in every five minutes with another ad paid for by another politician running for office"!

I tried to explain to her that our form of government requires an informed electorate. If we, the people, are not aware of what's going on in our names, then the democracy that so many have shed blood for will not survive. I tried to explain to her that I'm worried about our democracy, what with the mega-bucks being lavished on many of our leaders by corporations around the world. I'm begining to ask myself if my emotional investment in this form of government is really worth it anymore.

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LeRoy_Casey
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Aug. 15, 2010 4:33 pm

Leroy,your point is easily understandable.It`s a big problem because "corporate media" don`t show personal connections of politics to people.That`s why people like your daughter is turn-off,that is what the ruling class wants.Show her the "connections",she will be interested.I look at the government as divided,those that care and work for the people and those that don`t care and work for "special-interests".We don`t get the "cancer" out,the government will die.Then it will be "dog eat dog". Any investment is worth avoiding that.

tayl44's picture
tayl44
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote LeRoy_Casey:

I'm a newby to the Chat room, so I hope I don't fumble my point.

Last night I was watching MSNBC when my 42 year old daughter asked me why I watch "politics". She said something to the effect of: "I'll be so glad when this election is over so I won't hear anymore about it. Just let me get back to my regular TV programs without them breaking in every five minutes with another ad paid for by another politician running for office"!

I tried to explain to her that our form of government requires an informed electorate. If we, the people, are not aware of what's going on in our names, then the democracy that so many have shed blood for will not survive. I tried to explain to her that I'm worried about our democracy, what with the mega-bucks being lavished on many of our leaders by corporations around the world. I'm begining to ask myself if my emotional investment in this form of government is really worth it anymore.

Well, LeRoy, I wouldn't worry about being a newbie to chat rooms if that's the caiber of your thoughts and writing about them in here. Welcome.

My career, since graduating from college in 1978 with a degree in Communications, has all been in mass media production and content. I can tell you that at least one desired effect of blitz ads, especially right before the election day, is voter burn out. If one side can make you so sick of political ads, especially with any association to their opponent, that you don't feel compelled to vote at all, then that's almost as good as a vote for them. And all of this new money from Conservative "money-no-object" political groups is, at least in part, trying for that end.

Disenfranchisement is a tactic that works towards a larger Republican voter turnout, if history is any guide for us. People, apparently similar to your daughter, who watch or listen to TV and radio tend to be doing that for reasons of relaxation or distraction, not to be educated, generally. Imparting a feeling of disenfranchisement, or hopelessness, in the "masses" whose brains are in idle while watching or listening to the Lobotomy Box will usually keep them from voting altogether, at least when speaking of "entertainment programing."

Now the people who really want to be educated, in these bizarre days of mass media, are the delusional and ignorant crazy people- as witnessed by the growth figures in ratings of Glen Beck, Fox News & Propaganda, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Wiener Savage, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, et. al. Their core viewers/listeners are like a pen full of starved Pit Bulls and the previously mentioned people are only too happy to go over and throw some raw meat over the fence to them.

These are scary and depressing days, but that only means that people who ARE paying attention to reality, as opposed to Fox fantasies, need to be that much more diligent in convincing everyone we know to NOT get discouraged and stay home and not vote. The current administration is far from perfect, but...do you want the Conservatives to drive us off the cliff again in another war or economic bubble??!! Hell NO!!

So, as you say, we DO need an informed electorate, but more importantly, informed with facts from the real world, not BS from vastly overpaid professional liars of Faux News and other anti-democratic transnational corporations.

If you are still asking yourself "if my emotional investment in this form of government is really worth it anymore" then I say a resounding YES. The only sure way to lose is to give up before the election is over. And tell this to your daughter, too, LeRoy.

Thanks for participating here. Keep it up.

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Corvallis Carl
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Jun. 7, 2010 11:21 am

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The world we're leaving for today's teens...

Without immediate global action on climate change, today's teenagers will be forced to live with the consequences of our inaction. The World Bank has issued their third report of climate change, and it says that global temperatures could rise by as much as 4 degrees Celsius by the time today's teens hit their 80th birthday.

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