Thom and Thomas Jefferson are POLES apart

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cornopean
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With all due respect to the host, there is no ideological link between Thom H. and Thom. J.  

Thomas Jefferson railed against govt run monopolies like the East India Tea company.  Thomas Jefferson was a libertarian.  I am more than willing to take this up with anyone.  

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polycarp2
Actually, Jerrerson rallied

Actually, Jerrerson rallied against any large corporate structure...warning they would ultimately gain the power to own everything worth owning...leaving the inheritors of the revolution destitute.

Civil liberty guarantees used to be held by most,.. not just Libertarians..

Original libertarian thinkers were pretty radical seemingly putting limits on just what those civil guarantees could be used for. Benjamin Tucker said:.

"strikes, whenever and wherever inaugurated, deserve encouragement from all the friends of labour. . . They show that people are beginning to know their rights, and knowing, dare to maintain them." [18] and furthermore, "as an awakening agent, as an agitating force, the beneficent influence of a strike is immeasurable. . . with our present economic system almost every strike is just. For what is justice in production and distribution? That labour, which creates all, shall have all."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Tucker

Current libertarians seem to have forgotten their roots.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

 

cornopean
cornopean's picture
polycarp2 wrote: Actually,

polycarp2 wrote:

Actually, Jerrerson rallied against any large corporate structure...warning they would ultimately gain the power to own everything worth owning...leaving the inheritors of the revolution destitute.

I agree but by corporate structure, he did not mean what we mean by "corporations".  He meant govt controlled monopolies; e.g. the East India Tea Company.  This was what Jefferson hated.  Jefferson would have revolted at the idea of an income tax, much less taxing the rich.  Jefferson hated govt power in any way shape or form.  

There is no possible way Thom H. can connect himself to Jefferson.  That is just historically impossible.  The closest thing to Jefferson today is Ron Paul.

 

 

Jkirk3279
Jkirk3279's picture
cornopean wrote: With all due

cornopean wrote:

With all due respect to the host, there is no ideological link between Thom H. and Thom. J.  

Thomas Jefferson railed against govt run monopolies like the East India Tea company.  Thomas Jefferson was a libertarian.  I am more than willing to take this up with anyone.  

 

Oh, that's just sad.    How people forget.

There were no Libertarians in 1776.  And even comparing Libertarians today to any party then is difficult, as there are at least six varieties of Libertarian.

There are Progressive Libertarians that would be Democrats but they don't like the Democratic Party or any corporate attachments at all.  They like a social safety net, government services like Social Security.  Good people.

There are Conservative Libertarians that would be Republicans but they don't like the Republican Party or their corporate attachments.  

They are conservative without the usual religious bias.  The "Republicans that want to smoke dope and have sex" faction.

Then there are the Libertarian Anarchists;  government with no power but a court system and basic law, not even National Defense.    They spout the "Government is Evil" propaganda.

They're crazy, BTW.   They quote that line about 'taxation even WITH representation' being theft.

Which is insane, of course.  

As if any of us could live to 18 years old without owing a debt to our country, our military, our police, firefighters and teachers.   When you owe a debt, being asked to pay it is not theft.

Then the more mainstream Lib Anarchists that do allow for National Defense, but only defense.   No attacking other countries, EVER.  

Then there's Lib Anarchists that like Nation Building, invading other countries to tear them down and build something more "business friendly".

And finally the Libertarian/NeoLiberals, who are really NeoCons.    

Torture?   Sure, why not?   If it supposedly 'protects' America, go for it.  

Offshore American jobs?  If there's profit in it, why not?

Thomas Jefferson was the Founder of the Democratic Republican Party, the forerunner of today's Democratic Party.   

I can barely see where the point would be, about him being a Progressive Libertarian, but don't take that anti-corporate thing too far.

Jefferson may have had good reason to hate the East India Company.   Look up what they did to people, and you might hate them too.

But he wasn't an Anarchist Libertarian, or he couldn't have participated in forming our Government.    It would be like a Vegan cooking a rare steak.

Azog
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Jkirk3279 wrote:But he wasn't

Jkirk3279 wrote:

But he wasn't an Anarchist Libertarian, or he couldn't have participated in forming our Government.    It would be like a Vegan cooking a rare steak.

Jefferson participated in forming our government? How so?