If Obama is president for the little people(Have-nots),who is president for the big people.(Haves)?

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Is the richest person in America the real president? Is congress & courts control by another government? We have shadow banking,why not government? Our protests has got us very little to almost nothing compare to what the rich got.Progressives, maybe we need to "refocus" our attention?

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tayl44
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The voters choose one of the candidates presented by the have mores. The majority don't have representation in government.. What they have is what Wollin refers to as "managed democracy".

Sheldon Wollin (Princeton) documents that pretty well in his recent work "Democracy, Inc. - the Spector of Inverted Totalitarianism."

. "The genius of our inverted totalitarian system "lies in wielding total power without appearing to, without establishing concentration camps, or enforcing ideological uniformity, or forcibly suppressing dissident elements so long as they remain ineffectual. ... A demotion in the status and stature of the ‘sovereign people’ to patient subjects is symptomatic of systemic change, from democracy as a method of ‘popularizing’ power to democracy as a brand name for a product marketable at home and marketable abroad. ... The new system, inverted totalitarianism, is one that professes the opposite of what, in fact, it is. ... The United States has become the showcase of how democracy can be managed without appearing to be suppressed."

http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/our_managed_democracy.htm

When you vote for change and don't get it, you'll at least understand why if you read the book..

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Prof. Wolin does an excellent job of describing the giant Ponzi scheme which is the US. The artificial construct of the haves living beyond their means on the backs of the working class and the poor in the US, as well as on the backs of the poor and the disadvantages of the third world. It is simply unsustainable.

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norske
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At some point, there will be blow back. Exponential factors are kicking in. The impoverishment of Americans is accelerating.

The critical mass in Argentina was 60% made destitute by the same policies promoted in the U.S. . At that point, Argentines rebelled. The army stood down,.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whVSw5X2pVU&feature=related

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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To the extent that Obama insists that scraps from the banquet table be given to the poor, he is on their side. To the extent that his ability to deliver more is possible within the system, he can be held responsible for the margin. But to put him "on the side" of the rich goes too far. Obama's sin may be that he believes the rich can be persuaded to be "kinder and gentler" rather than confronted with their own stupidity and self-destructive behavior.

The message to the rich is that they are about to blow up their own stacked deck advantages. In order to keep a vast amount of wealth, like half their current booty, they will have to reinvest the other half in "America." If they don't make the system at least tolerable for those on the bottom, they stand to lose the whole game. At the very least, they will have to pay an enormous amount in security to protect their islands of wealth from the oceans of poverty around them.

The ideological insanity Obama faces does not respond to reason, but maybe he can split this faction when the bottom lines get clearer. A coalition of the wealthy could become an important force toward a more rational economics, even if the paradigm does not shift enough. The irony is that a rational response maintains a flawed system while present policy would destroy it. But the chaos of collapse has problems that a less violent process does not. Can we adjust the present system away from such extreme damage to people while also moving ahead toward a system that is up to date with reality?

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Quote DRC:

To the extent that Obama insists that scraps from the banquet table be given to the poor, he is on their side. To the extent that his ability to deliver more is possible within the system, he can be held responsible for the margin. But to put him "on the side" of the rich goes too far. Obama's sin may be that he believes the rich can be persuaded to be "kinder and gentler" rather than confronted with their own stupidity and self-destructive behavior.

The message to the rich is that they are about to blow up their own stacked deck advantages. In order to keep a vast amount of wealth, like half their current booty, they will have to reinvest the other half in "America." If they don't make the system at least tolerable for those on the bottom, they stand to lose the whole game. At the very least, they will have to pay an enormous amount in security to protect their islands of wealth from the oceans of poverty around them.

The ideological insanity Obama faces does not respond to reason, but maybe he can split this faction when the bottom lines get clearer. A coalition of the wealthy could become an important force toward a more rational economics, even if the paradigm does not shift enough. The irony is that a rational response maintains a flawed system while present policy would destroy it. But the chaos of collapse has problems that a less violent process does not. Can we adjust the present system away from such extreme damage to people while also moving ahead toward a system that is up to date with reality?

From the perspective of one of the have-nots, it seems pretty clear that Obams is again choosing to triangulate when he should be solidly against the continued wealth worship for which Washington is well known. Obama is wealthy and nearly every human he comes into contact with is also wealthy. I think this makes him unable to truely take the side of the have-nots.

It's like the movies about vampires where you have someone who remembers what it's like before they were "turned" but can't fight the thirst. Obama is not likely to rise above his more base needs. He is someone who does not desire to live in a constant state of disharmony or conflict with his surroundings and, thus, will cave in again and again to the actors that surround him.

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Does Professor Wolin explain exactly how the "haves" live on the "backs of the working class." Does he define "haves" and "working class?"

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cpp224
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I agree with all posts,but DRC come closest to point ot thread."A coalition of wealthy"(progressive) can help this "system get to reality".The question still remain,"who is the president of the rich" ??(progressive & regressive) The pressure point for "real change" need to be on that person/persons! Obama/government is a "strawman"!

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tayl44
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Is the richest person in America the real president?

If this is the case then the richest person in the world is everyone's president. This question, while appearing a bit conspiratorial, actually reminds us of a broader question than "who leads us". That question being, have we created a human society where wealth means not just the power to purchase but to control.

I tend to agree that, unfortunately, that IS the case. When SCOTUS allows the doors of our legislators to be trown open to "donors", in a blatant pro-fascism display, then the more money you have, the more power you have to control the system. Plain and simple. It is a system that deliberately disempowers the poor majority.

So, when the debate about taxes arises, it is important that we remind our right-wing friends that we are not just talking about money, but about influence. When we heavily tax the rich, we are taking money, it's true, but they are not deprived of anything but influence in the long run. They still get to eat anything they want. They still can have a dozen houses and a thousand cars. What we are really "taking" from them is power. And, until the system is transformed into something that guarantees a more equal distribution of power, taking money will be the only avenue society has to effect the necessary equalibrium.

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D-NATURE,we need a equalibrium of the person richest in "wisdom" being president, not richest in money.

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tayl44
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Quote tayl44:

D-NATURE,we need a equalibrium of the person richest in "wisdom" being president, not richest in money.

I agree. When was the last time, though, that you saw a show called "Lifestyles of the wise and responsible"?

There was a time when one felt properly ashamed of their wealth. Today, however, the culture has been driven to consider wealth the reward for exceptional cleverness in working the system and no longer equates working the system as a sign of something, somehow, lacking in ones social sense.

Wealth-shame, for lack of an existing term, seems reasonable to me. Society is, by it's nature, about "we" and not "me". Therefore, when individuals or families amass huge sums of money-more than they could ever use in their life time-they are, in a system of finite resources, robbing their fellow humans? It's really the most elemental of ideas. Any child could understand the injustice. Throw a pie down in the middle of a half dozen hungry boys and see if any of them say that one guy should be able to eat three quarters of it himself because he is the strongest or because he is resourceful enough to trick the other guys out of their share. Fairness, in society, serves the needs of the many. To allow anything else is tyranny.

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D_NATURED
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Quote DRC:

To the extent that Obama insists that scraps from the banquet table be given to the poor, he is on their side. To the extent that his ability to deliver more is possible within the system, he can be held responsible for the margin. But to put him "on the side" of the rich goes too far.

A classic case of denial. If this last tax cut deal didn't confirm who's camp Obama not only work's for but favor's, then nothing will ever convince you.

No one in our government right now serves the interest of the have nots. To believe otherwise is to buy into the delusion.

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psalongo
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Obama,is the strawman for the "real president",who is the "haves" president? The Chamber of Commerce? Who is the richest person in America?

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tayl44
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Thom has a penchent for playing that goofball who speaks about elections and majorities. What Thom should be playing are snippets of how elections are corrupted.

BTW, the only explanation of continued support for Obama is the Stockholm Syndrome. I reckon even some slaves admired their owners.

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D Natured wrote: "Fairness, in society, serves the needs of the many. To allow anything else is tyranny"

poly replies: Probably a return to a form of feudalism where the needs of the many are ignored was a mistake.

We've abolished the titles of Lord and Lady, and replaced them with CEO/Financier. The effect is the same..

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"..

polycarp2
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Are progressives "Scare" of the real rulers? Obama is a "Strawman"! Progressives you want real change? GO AFTER THE "REAL RULERS"! Obama isn`t Jesus and you remember what happen to him!

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tayl44
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And Obama isn't Jimmy Carter either. At least Carter gave the nation a "come to Jesus" lecture about the state of the energy crisis. Of course we also know what happened to him. I wonder what would happen if Obama said, "look folks, you can't just keep on buying things with money you don't have. With the state of the economy expect a 30% decrease in the standard of living over the next two years. And we can't afford to keep troops abroad so we are bringing them home and discharging them from the military." It would be very interesting to see what effect that would have?

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captbebops wrote: "With the state of the economy expect a 30% decrease in the standard of living over the next two years"

poly replies: Propping up banksters and derivative players is a bit expense. Someone has to sacrifice for it.

Taxing banksters and derivative players to pay for their own bail is off the table. They need every penney they can muster to create another financial tsunami.

When a shadow government calls the shots, it puts into question the legitimacy of the elected one.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Quote polycarp2:

captbebops wrote: "With the state of the economy expect a 30% decrease in the standard of living over the next two years"

poly replies: Propping up banksters and derivative players is a bit expense. Someone has to sacrifice for it.

Taxing banksters and derivative players to pay for their own bail is off the table. They need every penney they can muster to create another financial tsunami.

When a shadow government calls the shots, it puts into question the legitimacy of the elected one.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

What, like with anti-American investigations like a certain moronic congress woman wanted? I predict that such things will one day take place.

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Poly,you mention "shadow government",that`s close to topic.Capt & D_N(all) whose the "President of the shadow government"? Obama,has a "full time job" to keep the world from going "CRAZY". Progressives full time job is puting pressure on the real rulers and creating a "New System"! I SEE NOBODY DOING THIS,NO VISION-NO FUTURE!

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tayl44
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Quote tayl44:

Poly,you mention "shadow government",that`s close to topic.Capt & D_N(all) whose the "President of the shadow government"? Obama,has a "full time job" to keep the world from going "CRAZY". Progressives full time job is puting pressure on the real rulers and creating a "New System"! I SEE NOBODY DOING THIS,NO VISION-NO FUTURE!

We're slowly making progress. These days a lot of people are clueing into the fact that most of our bullshit problems start with the international economic royalists and their insatiable greed and near limitless financial power. A large portion of the shadow govt. elite are in fact the products of inbreeding, the European Royalty liked to keep their blood on the Throne and the Rothschilds banking empire were rather conservative in their seed dispersal, wanting to keep the banking empire firmly in hand. I think this explains, partially, their tendency toward sociopathy.

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The voters choose one of the candidates presented by the have mores.

Bingo, bingo, and BINGO! This is the crux of the problem on many levels. Ever notice "issues" on ballots are chosen and calculated... ...AKA dumbed down and limited? I'd like to know who really decides what really goes up for vote.

It always seems like as soon as the"prop XX" commercials start popping up around pre-voting/election time -- counter-commercials outing the role of any special interest group using each "prop" to sneak in their own interests.

In attempting to win votes by outing the other's manipulative ways - they end up outing each other. If you look at any "prop" presented - both sides have underlying LEECH agendas attached. What does that really say? Seriously?

bonnie
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Quote bonnie:

Bingo, bingo, and BINGO! This is the crux of the problem on many levels. Ever notice "issues" on ballots are chosen and calculated... ...AKA dumbed down and limited? I'd like to know who really decides what really goes up for vote.

It always seems like as soon as the"prop XX" commercials start popping up around pre-voting/election time -- counter-commercials outing the role of any special interest group using each "prop" to sneak in their own interests.

In attempting to win votes by outing the other's manipulative ways - they end up outing each other. If you look at any "prop" presented - both sides have underlying LEECH agendas attached. What does that really say? Seriously?

It says the US is not a democracy, and the Citizens United (SCOTUS) ruling basically put the final nail in the coffin of any pretense of democracy.

I suspect once most Americans realize they live in a plutocracy and not a democracy, it may be easier to have a future plan. But then perhaps in this case (especially if one has no viable means to leave), Ignorance is BLISS.

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Mel wrote: "I suspect once most Americans realize they live in a plutocracy and not a democracy, it may be easier to have a future plan. But then perhaps in this case (especially if one has no viable means to leave), Ignorance is BLISS."

poly replies:

Ignorance is certainly more comfortable unless you become one of those living under bridges and eating out of dumpsters.

Tay wrote:

"Progressives full time job is puting pressure on the real rulers and creating a "New System"!

poly replies:

Just how do you propose puttng pressure on the corporate/financial oligarchy...the shadow government?

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Quote polycarp2:

Mel wrote: "I suspect once most Americans realize they live in a plutocracy and not a democracy, it may be easier to have a future plan. But then perhaps in this case (especially if one has no viable means to leave), Ignorance is BLISS."

poly replies:

Ignorance is certainly more comfortable unless you become one of those living under bridges and eating out of dumpsters.

Tay wrote:

"Progressives full time job is puting pressure on the real rulers and creating a "New System"!

poly replies:

Just how do you propose puttng pressure on the corporate/financial oligarchy...the shadow government?

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

We put preasure on them by putting one of their numbers in the morgue (figurativelty speaking). That, however, takes organizing. We use the internet (facebook, twitter, etc.) to organize current bank customers to-when notified- immediately remove their funds from the chosen victim. We let the banks know that one of them will be chosen for destruction if certain demands are not met and then we destroy one of them when they're not. If we were able to take down just one of them, the others would have to pay attention. Only this way, by bypassing the appeals to our impotent representatives and attacking our enemies our selves, can we make a change. Washington DC is so payed for that we are unlikely to see any real change originate there.

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If you can get enough people to do it, it would probably work.

The biggest obstacle to overcome is the notion that the Repugnants or the Dems (depending on points of view) are the true enemy. Focusing on politics alone accomplishes nothing. That's becoming obvious.

The defeated crooks of either wing of the Corporate Party simply go through the revolving door to a corporate lobbying firm and continue writing legislation for the shadow government...rubber-stamped by their replacements.

The true enemy is the shadow government. It has to be dismantled or neutralized. It's illegitimate..

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Mel Wrote:I suspect once most Americans realize they live in a plutocracy and not a democracy, it may be easier to have a future plan.

The majority would call "plutocracy" a $10 word since it is not commonly bandied about as we do here.

I don't have much faith in pop cultured Americans to do the right thing and take to the streets which is what is needed. Instead they'll be plucked like chickens.

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The shadow government counts on it. Most Americans don't even get that it exists. The Supreme Court sort of sanctified it, didn't it?

What passed legislation of any import can you think of that wasn't proposed or rejected by it?

Medicaid D written by pharmaceuticals. Finance reform written by bankers. Health Care Reform written by ins. companies. . The gutting of Soc. Security and its privatization will be written by Wall St.

Shadow government The Constitutional one is now for show,

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Quote captbebops:
Mel Wrote:I suspect once most Americans realize they live in a plutocracy and not a democracy, it may be easier to have a future plan.

The majority would call "plutocracy" a $10 word since it is not commonly bandied about as we do here.

I don't have much faith in pop cultured Americans to do the right thing and take to the streets which is what is needed. Instead they'll be plucked like chickens.

When you refer to a word as being a $10 word, does that mean most Americans don't know what it means?

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meljomur
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When you refer to a word as being a $10 word, does that mean most Americans don't know what it means?

Come on... ...remember a penny, (one cent), is the going rate for a person's thoughts. Based on this $10 must yield one hell of a concept.

bonnie
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Wow, that must mean people like Antifascist and ren are generating millions with their posts...

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meljomur
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Melj,that`s our money paying for those posts (we make the rich,rich) One issue all Americans/world know and agree on,all governments are control by special interests. Choco,i agree.We need to expose the economic royalty show faces,names and how they hurt.When they are in the open,we can focus. Bonnie,makes a good point,educating people on how to read political ads. D_NA, Your post go right to the heart of solutions that is needed. Remember ACORN,they march right at CEO's homes,they when to the people that`re hurting the most.Their tactics were so good,the fascists went out of their way to destroy them.Poly,we need a new extra big & strong ACORN to answer your question. Capt,remember "Keep The Faith, Baby". We`re all uneducated until we learn,so lets learn together.Time to get rid the cancer on our life,and stop wasting energy on "strawmen".

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tayl44
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Acorn is a perfect example of the true intentions of the democrats - use them when needed but then thrown Acorn under the bus and kill it - Notice the pattern.....

Same thing w/ the filabuster rule- DON'T change it when it could have done some good - instead use it as an excuse that those darn mean repub's won't play fair..... change it AFTER the repub's have taken the House- guaranteeing no decent bills come out of the House........ and right before the repub's take the Senate - leaving WE THE PEOPLE once again screwed......

If the dem's had really meant business they would have changed the filabuster rule when they had the votes and the numbers to make real change -at the beginning of 2009.......

Do anyone of you still fall for this BS?

the dem's are in the grasp of Big Money and Obama is right there looking for his $200,000 speeches after hsi time in the White House..... he's NOT going to threaten that.... he may go after a few Social Issues just to show the sheeple that "HE"S DIFFERENT than the repub's.... but on basic economic issues he's no different than Bush...... in fact better because he defangs the left into accepting tthings that a repub can't get done.....

And I still say if Jeb Bush decides to run it's a sign that Obama is done..... If not the Powers that Be still believe he'll be reelected......

The PTB will not allow a Palin to be elected - too much of a loose cannon - same as McCain..... which is why the Economy collapsed right after the mccain strong economy statement - at that poinbt Obama was well behind MCCain - just another in a long line of stolen elections - 1968 w/ nixon, 1980 w/ iran contra, 2000 in florida, 2004 in Ohio.... 2008 the meltdown......

Obama? the perfect candidate for the vampire capitalists...... defang the left and carry on the largest theft in the history of the world.....

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mtdon
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I'm sure I'm not alone but, I've often wondered about the timeline between the removal of civics classes in Jr. High and High School and the emergence of corporate influence on our government.

bonnie
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I think there is a connection there, Bonnie. I just mentioned the need to have civics classes for everyone in my blog post today. I think Thom mentioned it in his new book, too.

I don't think the plutocracy -- maybe we should just call it fascism to use a word that everyone is familiar with -- is as complete as some people here think, but I think it is stronger than the force of democracy in the U.S. now, which is tragic as it is. I do believe that the current fascist state of political affairs cannot last for very long, at least in historical terms.

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Natural Lefty
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I do believe that the current fascist state of political affairs cannot last for very long, at least in historical terms.

I'm not sure what you mean by "historical terms".

Also, at least for me, I wonder about when exactly did the "fascist state", (your term - not mine) start? I also wonder who started it, why they initiated it, and how they went about initiating it?

As for the polarized ideology of one side verses another, (repubs and dems) - I do not view them as anything but ONE coin. It's in the best interest of the game makers, (whom ever they may be), to maintain an illusion of two sides to appease the people's need for "freedom of choice"... ...but let's face it, two sides of a coin, (even if their imprinted images are different), are still one coin.

bonnie
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Well, I wish Bernie Sanders were our President, and he is not a member of any party (nor am I), so to a degree I agree that both parties owe allegiance to monied interests. There are considerable differences between the parties, though, on things like civil rights and social issues. Just look at how polarized most votes in Congress are. Do you seriously mean to suggest that those differences are meaningless? Also, most of the few politicians who really push back against the military-industrial complex, with the exception of Ron Paul, are Democrats, but there is not much difference in terms of who funds their campaigns or lobbies them for special treatment.

How the current fascist state began goes back to at least Reagan if not before. Some would argue that there has always been fascism in our government, but it has gotten worse. Some people blame the so-called "Illluminati," a small group of ultra rich families of really old money, but that gets awfully paranoid sounding to my psychologically trained mind. I think it's more a matter of "newer money" such as the Waltons of Wal-Mart, the Koch brothers, and so forth, in concert with conservative politicians who have pushed this agenda. I know that "historical terms" is pretty vague. I mean things are bound to change signiticantly within a few decades, one way or another.

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Natural Lefty
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Do you seriously mean to suggest that those differences are meaningless?

No. But I do sometimes wonder if they aren't contrived.

I still haven't validated the authenticity of the "Banker's Manifesto of 1892" but, if it is authentic is speaks volumes regarding the use of manipulation to influence the perception of political parties. Here are the last two paragraphs:

The question of tariff reform must be urged through the organization known as the Democratic Party, and the question of protection with the reciprocity must be forced to view through the Republican Party.

By thus dividing voters, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us, except as teachers to the common herd. Thus, by discrete actions, we can secure all that has been so generously planned and successfully accomplished.

bonnie
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Us "Have Nots" get to pick the President. There are Many Millions of "us". The "Haves" get to pick who we vote for...

-Randy-

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Randy95023
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The Father of Facisim, Musollini, proposed abolishing the elected parliament and replacing it with representatives from all areas of the corporate sector.

It seems that doesn't have to be done. The corporate/financial sector wields power through lobbying. Lobbyists write the legislation, legislatures rubber-stamp it. .

Defeated politicians merely go through the revolving door to lobbying on behalf of corporate sectors.............where they continue writing the nation's legislation.

Corporations wrote Medicaid D, they wrote the Health Care Reform Act, they wrote the Financial Reform Act. Anything of import is screened by them or instituted by them. A defacto Shadow Government

As Chris Hedges notes, "We've experienced a slow moving coup de etat. They won. We lost."

Sheldon Wolin, Princeton Univ., calls it "Inverted Totalitarianism." "An illusion of democracy".

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

The anger we direct at Obama,if we direct it to the "Real President",imagine the results? The problem of the government is big,but the root of the problem is "Private Industry".Our attention need to be there,we keep going after the strawman,we get "nowhere".ACORN attention was in the right place,proof is in how the fascists when out of their way to get rid of them.We need the keep doing what they did! Thanks Bonnie for info history,i think fascism has always been in the government.Capitalism is at the end of its rope,so they have nothing to lose or hide now.They`re in our face,you can believe they`re changing "everything" to survive.I like Bernie Sanders too,but he could do no more than Obama.They have Obama so lock-up he is afraid to say "Make Me Do It". Who pick the president of the 'Haves'? Who is "IT"? Poly,the fascists won a trip to "Hell".

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tayl44
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Us "Have Nots" get to pick the President. There are Many Millions of "us". The "Haves" get to pick who we vote for...

Hmmm... ...I'm not so sure. I seem to remember something about the 2000 election. Something about it being the only time in history the Supreme Court may have determined the outcome of a presidential election.

I could very well be wrong but it seems to me we are given two choices for each four year election and our voter choice decides... ...well, unless it isn't the foreseen calculated outcome the game makers planned for.

Look, I know it sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory... ...and maybe it is nothing more - I don't know. But another interesting thing I've come across was when I did an engine search for:

2008+obama+clinton+bilderberg

bonnie
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Polycarp wrote,"The critical mass in Argentina was 60% made destitute by the same policies promoted in the U.S. . At that point, Argentines rebelled. The army stood down,.

The American military will never stand down,........ on us.

dhavid
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Jul. 16, 2010 9:41 am
Quote bonnie:

[quote]Us "Have Nots" get to Look, I know it sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory... ...and maybe it is nothing more - I don't know. But another interesting thing I've come across was when I did an engine search for:

2008+obama+clinton+bilderberg

I wish people wouldn't shy away from two perfectly normal everyday words put together. If there is one thing the global ruling elite doesn't want is people trying to connect events and organizatons together. This would produce evidence of a pattern of rule, of control and of intention. Therefore conspiracy theory has become stigmatized by the universities and academics that are run by or sponsored by the elite.

There are conspiracy theories and there are wild hairbrained conspiracy theories. Every detective is a conspiracy theorist. Finding evidence of two or more people commiting a crime is a conspiracy, very common. The detective then starts evaluating the evidence, testimony and backgrounds and develops a theory and sets out to substantiate the theory, modify it or scrap it all together. To not be a conspiracy theorists is to accept whatever authority tells you.

The Bilderberg Group is real, they really meet once a year and this is a group that is or represents the most powerful (financially) people and organizations in the world. These are the people pulling the strings of all heads of state of all western nations. The Bilderberg Group is comprised of international bankers, military industrial types, media, pharma, big agra. The Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Commission and Council on Foreign Affairs are part of the global Round Table Group set up in England by Cecil Rhodes who got rich exploiting Africans and the blood diamond industry. Most of the elite got their initial wealth from the British East India Company, a state/corporate entity that pushed herion onto China and the rest of the world. In the New World, the Rothschilds' associates carved out monoplies in railroad, steel, oil and banking. The Bilderberg Group came after the Federal Reserve in 1913 but the members of this Group, "The Order" as Antony C. Sutton calls them, the Fed and Goldman Sachs are intermingled and are basically one entity of ruling financial elites.

In 2000 the election was awarded to GW Bush by the Bilderberg and Opus Dei controled Supreme Court. In 2004 the presidential race came down between Skull and Bones GW Bush and Skull and Bones John F. Kerry. The 2004 election was rigged in Ohio and this is one of the results:

Michael Connell told a close associate that he was afraid that George Bush and Dick Cheney would ``throw [him] under the bus.``

Michael Connell, the Bush IT expert who has been directly implicated in the rigging of George Bush’s 2000 and 2004 elections, was killed last night when his single engine plane crashed three miles short of the Akron airport. Velvet Revolution (”VR”), a non-profit that has been investigating Mr. Connell’s activities for the past two years, can now reveal that a person close to Mr. Connell has recently been discussing with a VR investigator how he can tell all about his work for George Bush. Mr. Connell told a close associate that he was afraid that George Bush and Dick Cheney would “throw [him] under the bus.”

A tipster close to the McCain campaign disclosed to VR in July that Mr. Connell’s life was in jeopardy and that Karl Rove had threatened him and his wife, Heather. VR’s attorney, Cliff Arnebeck, notified the United States Attorney General , Ohio law enforcement and the federal court about these threats and insisted that Mr. Connell be placed in protective custody. VR also told a close associate of Mr. Connell’s not to fly his plane because of another tip that the plane could be sabotaged. Mr. Connell, a very experienced pilot, has had to abandon at least two flights in the past two months because of suspicious problems with his plane. On December 18, 2008, Mr. Connell flew to a small airport outside of Washington DC to meet some people. It was on his return flight the next day that he crashed.

http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=614180

Also, the dem debates in 2008 held in Las Vegas and run by MSNBC fought off a court order and had a true progressive candidate Dennis Kucinich thrown off the stage. Here we had a Bilderberg run medium, NBC run by GE a weapons manufacturer and nuclear arms dealer, short listing our presidential candidates for us. In 2004 John Edwards was at the Italian Bildeberg meeting. It just goes on and on. I don't know how much evidence people require before they realize that politics is theater and the producer is the Bilderberg Group and or their associate groups.

Obama's candidate to replace Mossad Rahm Emmanuel is a JP Morgan banker. JP Morgan helped give us the Federal Reserve, the beginning of the end of sovereign America and democracy.

Bloomberg reports that former Commerce Secretary William Daley, of the Chicago Daleys, is up for a big-time position in the Obama administration, and could even be set to take Mr. Emmanuel's seat. It's a good narrative; as a member of Chicago's political powerhouse family, Mr. Daley showed Mr. Emmanuel the ropes when they both worked in the Clinton administration. And! He works for JPMorgan Chase, a huge Wall Street bank:

http://www.observer.com/2011/wall-street/obama-may-pick-jpmorgan-exec-chief-staff

Choco's picture
Choco
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I've tried to respond three times and this site has rejected my post. Strange. Maybe I shouldn't have written so much about the Bilderbergers.

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Choco
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Your posting on Thom Hartmann from 71.112.35.74 has been automatically flagged by our spam filters as being inappropriate for this website.

At Thom Hartmann we work very hard behind the scenes to keep our web pages free of spam. Unfortunately, sometimes we accidentally block legitimate content. If you are attempting to post legitimate content to this website, you can help us to improve our spam filters by emailing the following information to a site administrator:

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Here's the message I keep getting. Won't let me post info about Bilderberg Group.

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Sorry Choco. The spam software apparently has to be instructed on what is REAL spam. Did your post finally show up? Let us know.

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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Yes, the Bilderberg group info. is definitely not spam. A friend of mine on Facebook alerted me to the Bilderberg group, so I checked it out a few months ago. There are several groups such as that which make nice with high ranking politicians including whomever happens to be President of the U.S. and gets them to join their "economic cooperation" groups, which of course, indebts them to these groups and inculcates them to a degree with their philosophy.

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Bonnie, I didn't mean to seem rude, but I don't think you took it that way. Despite all the shared, destructive economic ideology among both "major parties," it is important to see the differences among politiicians. Yesterday, Thom had Kucinich and DeFazio on his show for instance. You don't find well-meaning people such as that in the Republican Party, granted that such fine public servants are in the minority even among the Democrats.

I saw that 1892 memo somewhere before too. I have had quite an education regarding world economics over these past few months. I agree that some of the "differences" between the 2 major parties may be manufactured or exagerrated, sadly. By the way, Thom was talking today about the worldwide "Oligarchy" (to use his term) that has developed over the past few decades, in case you missed that. Some of us at least, are becoming more and more aware of what's going on. Like me, he said that it seems to be mostly first generation wealth that is behind it, not the "old money." My theory is that younger generations rarely match the attitudes of their parents, so we tend to get people who rebel against the status quo among the children of the uber wealthy, the Kennedy family and Roosevelt family being examples. I think any kid that has a conscience under such circumstances tends to feel a sense of guilt or shame over their exalted financial status. Those who don't feel a sense of guilt or shame, on the other hand, turn into the George W. Bushes of the world.

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It’s unnecessary for people feel they must include a disclaimer when they whisper those two words together: conspiracy theory. Every detective has to be a conspiracy theorist to do his job. Any crime that includes two or more people is by law a conspiracy. A detective forms a theory as to who did it, why, what were the motives, etc, and proceeds to follow leads that will either substantiate his or her theory or will not. The theory may have to be modified or thrown out altogether.

Wild eyed, hairbrained conspiricies are another matter. I'm sure the global ruling elite do not want people making connections that may establish a pattern of control and further intentions. Conspiracy theory is discouraged by those who want us to believe that global affairs are random, but when you see the same names and same organizations at the center of every war, financial collapse, environmental disaster, false flag event, monopolies, etc, then you have good evidence of a control conspiracy, if not conspiracy, then control collusion.

It's being roundly reported that Obama was a CIA asset, I havent dug into that yet, but I will. Carter, Clinton and Obama are products of Rockefeller/Brezinski Trilateral Commission. The Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Affairs and Bilderberger Group are all associate groups. Many members of one are members of the other but not in all cases.

Conspiracy? No shit? The 2000 election was thrown by Bush family lawyer James Baker III, a regular Bilderberger, a banker who represented the Saudis against the law suit of the families of the 9/11 victims, so was Bilderberger Kissinger as lawyer for the Saudis. The Election was awarded to Skull and Bones Bush over CFR Gore. The 2000 election was rigged and the Opus Dei Fascist Supreme Court superceded State of Florida decision to allow the vote count to continue.

In 2004 election it was Skull and Bones (A Bilderberg subset) GW Bush vs Skull and Bones John F. Kerry. In the meantime, his running mate, pretty boy John Edwards attended the annual Bilderberg Group meeting in Italy. In 2008 progressive candidate Dennis Kucinich got a court order allowing him to debate in the Las Vegas primaries along with the corporate candidates Hillary Bilderberger Clinton, Obama and Bildeberger Edwards. The debate was hosted by MSNBC/NBC/GE. GE is a military contractor and makes nuclear weapons. The debate was in the shadows of Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository that Kucinich wanted shut down because it was a threat to the aquifier. In essence, a military contractor screened our presidential candidates for us.

I can’t name a single president, with perhaps the exception of Kennedy, who brought out silver certificates in defiance of the Federal Reserve, who actually tried to represent the people. All the rest are anointed by the global elite which controls all the western govts from the shadows. Why do they do it this way? Because, they get their laws and policies in place without ever having to expose themselves. Politics is theater and the Bilderberg Group and their ilk are the producers. Never doubt their existence and intentions for total global control and never underestimate their cruelty, for instance we already know that Obama is surrounded by Goldman Sachs banksters and now Zionist Rahm Emmanuel is heading back to Chicago politics while another Chicago politician is headed into the White House:

By Mike Taylor

January 4, 2011 | 9:07 a.m.

After former White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel pirouetted off to Chicago to steamroll his shallow-pocketed adversaries in the upcoming mayoral election, President Barack Obama has cast about for a potential successor. Now we have a potential pick; not only does it represent a sort of Chicago-politics switcheroo, but there's also a Wall Street angle (thank heaven).

Bloomberg reports that former Commerce Secretary William Daley, of the Chicago Daleys, is up for a big-time position in the Obama administration, and could even be set to take Mr. Emmanuel's seat. It's a good narrative; as a member of Chicago's political powerhouse family, Mr. Daley showed Mr. Emmanuel the ropes when they both worked in the Clinton administration. And! He works for JPMorgan Chase, a huge Wall Street bank:

You either play ball with the global elites who have control of our govt or else:

--Michael Connell told a close associate that he was afraid that George Bush and Dick Cheney would ``throw [him] under the bus.``

Michael Connell, the Bush IT expert who has been directly implicated in the rigging of George Bush’s 2000 and 2004 elections, was killed last night when his single engine plane crashed three miles short of the Akron airport. Velvet Revolution (”VR”), a non-profit that has been investigating Mr. Connell’s activities for the past two years, can now reveal that a person close to Mr. Connell has recently been discussing with a VR investigator how he can tell all about his work for George Bush. Mr. Connell told a close associate that he was afraid that George Bush and Dick Cheney would “throw [him] under the bus.”

A tipster close to the McCain campaign disclosed to VR in July that Mr. Connell’s life was in jeopardy and that Karl Rove had threatened him and his wife, Heather. VR’s attorney, Cliff Arnebeck, notified the United States Attorney General , Ohio law enforcement and the federal court about these threats and insisted that Mr. Connell be placed in protective custody. VR also told a close associate of Mr. Connell’s not to fly his plane because of another tip that the plane could be sabotaged. Mr. Connell, a very experienced pilot, has had to abandon at least two flights in the past two months because of suspicious problems with his plane. On December 18, 2008, Mr. Connell flew to a small airport outside of Washington DC to meet some people. It was on his return flight the next day that he crashed.

The Anthrax guy committed suicide too.

--We may never know who or why the anthrax was mailed to the networks and the Dem senators, because after seven years the FBI concluded it was the actions of one person: Bruce Edwards Ivins a scientist at Fort Detrick. In June 2008, Ivins was told of the impending prosecution and on July 27, 2008 he allegedly committed suicide by an overdose of acetaminophen and the Federal authorities closed the case. As it turns out, Leahy and Daschle didn’t expand the 9/11 investigation and didn’t stop the Patriot Act and didn’t interfere with the formation of Homeland Security, probably just the way things worked out.

-- Dr David Kelly: doctors start legal action for new inquest

Six senior doctors have begun legal action to force a new inquest into the death of Dr David Kelly, the scientist who died days after being exposed as the source of a controversial BBC story on the Iraq war.

Andrew Alderson - 05 Dec 2009

The action is being taken because six doctors are convinced that the original verdict of suicide is unsafe and should be overturned.Some suspect that Dr Kelly, 59, was murdered shortly after it was revealed that he was the source of a BBC story which alleged that evidence against Iraq had been “sexed up” by the Government in order to justify the 2003 invasion.The body of Dr Kelly, who was a UN weapons inspector, was found more than six years ago in woods near his Oxfordshire home after he went out for a walk. His wrist had been slashed. He also had painkillers in his bloodstream, although not at a lethal level.At the time of his death, Dr Kelly was under pressure because it had emerged that he had provided confidential information for the BBC story.However, in a 13-page dossier prepared as the basis for the legal action, the doctors argue that the bleeding from Dr Kelly’s ulnar artery in his left wrist is “highly unlikely” to have caused his death. They say a number of studies have shown that it is unusual for a patient to die from a single deep cut to the wrist.

--Paul Wellstone Paul Wellstone, Fighter

John Nichols | May 9, 2002

Paul Wellstone is a hunted man. Minnesota's senior senator is not just another Democrat on White House political czar Karl Rove's target list, in an election year when the Senate balance of power could be decided by the voters of a single state. Rather, getting rid of Wellstone is a passion for Rove, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush and the special-interest lobbies that fund the most sophisticated political operation ever assembled by a presidential administration. "There are people in the White House who wake up in the morning thinking about how they will defeat Paul Wellstone," a senior Republican aide confides. "This one is political and personal for them."

That has made it political and personal for Wellstone. The man who decided to abandon a self-imposed two-term limit on his Senate service at least in part because of his determination to block Bush's conservative agenda wears the target with pride. At a moment when most Democrats are still trying to figure out how to challenge a popular President, the former college wrestler is leaping into the ring. Wellstone is not running for cover; he is running to deliver a message about politics in a state and a nation that he believes to be far more progressive than the readers of political tea leaves in Washington could begin to imagine.

. . . With the Enron scandal fresh in America's memory, Wellstone will also push the idea that there are interests worth fighting against. "When the oil company money comes in, we're going to talk about it," he says. "We're going to fight like hell."

--Speaking of Enron, remember when Bush was using Ken Lay’s private jet during his 2000 campaign season. Why was Enron so eager to have Bush in the White House? They had a power plant in Dabhol, India that needed gas from the Caspian Sea to power it. The plant superstructure was made by Bechtel with the power plant built by GE and billed to Enron. This article doesn’t mention the power plant, but Clifford Baxter was Enron’s man in charge of the Dabhol debacle that was causing Enron to hemorrhage money.

Enron - Baxter's Suicide
Was Murder Say Top Cops

By David Wright, Kevin Lynch, and Courtney Callahan

It was murder. That's the stunning verdict of top law enforcement experts who have independently examined the shooting death of Enron executive Cliff Baxter, which was hurriedly ruled a suicide by a controversial medical examiner.

And insiders believe the popular boss' tragic death is linked to the giant energy company whose shoddy dealings and bankruptcy have shattered the lives of thousands of employees. "Mr. Baxter's death was NOT a suicide-and nothing points to a natural death, which leads to the unavoidable conclusion that foul play was involved," said Peter Levin, a veteran prosecutor in Philadelphia.

Baxter, a 43-year-old former vice-president of the Houston-based company, was found dead in his Mercedes just half a mile from his $700,000 home.

He had been steeling himself to testify before congressional committees about Enron's questionable accounting practices-and just dayus earlier had talked to a business associate about "perhaps needing a bodyguard."

"He knew where all the Enron bodies were buried and he was apparently ready to talk," former congressman John LeBoutillier, who attended Harvard Business School with former Enron CEO Jeff Skilling, told The ENQUIRER.

"The evidence for foul play is pretty strong. Here's a man who had everything to live for-children he loved and a comfortable future. He's lying in bed in the middle of the night when he suddenly gets up, dresses, gets into his car, drives a short distance and blows his brains out. It doesn't make sense.

"There's billions of dollars missing. If the people involved are capable of cheating, lying and stealing money, it's not going much further to hire a hit man and have someone whacked."

All these deaths and convenient suicides benefitted and facilitated the NWO plans. It’s time to abandon the illusion of democracy. It ain’t happening here.

Baker Botts Cuts an Iraqi Oil Deal -- and Draws a Backlash

Daphne Eviatar
The American Lawyer
11-26-2007

Ever since oil first gushed in Texas, Houston-based Baker Botts has represented wildcatters. While those deals were always risky, even Baker may not have anticipated that the deal made by the firm for its latest wildcatter -- Hunt Oil Co., a longtime client hungry for oil in Iraq -- was risking quite so much.

In September, Baker lawyered a deal between Hunt and the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG). In mid-November, the Iraqi Oil Minister announced that all oil companies that have cut deals with the KRG will be blacklisted. "Any company that has signed contracts without the approval of the federal authority of Iraq will not have any chance of working with the government of Iraq," oil minister Hussein al-Shahristani told reporters during OPEC meetings in the Saudi Arabian capital of Riyadh. "We warned the companies that there will be consequences... that Iraq will not allow its oil to be exported," Shahristani said.

The deal was for exploration rights in northern Iraq. The Baker Botts team was led by Sean Korney, a Dubai-based partner with a record of representing energy companies buying up oil and gas rights around the globe. None were as controversial as the Hunt Oil rights, however. Not only was the deal made in a war zone, but Iraq is still working on oil resources legislation. Under the October 2005 Iraqi constitution, local oil is owned by "the Iraqi people."

Afghanistan's President Karzai signs deal on gas pipeline project

Afghan President Hamid Karzai met with regional leaders Saturday to sign an agreement for a massive energy project that could eventually net his country billions of dollars in revenue: a 1,000-mile natural gas pipeline whose proposed route cuts through the heartland of the Taliban insurgency.

Related

KABUL — Afghan President Hamid Karzai met with regional leaders Saturday to sign an agreement for a massive energy project that could eventually net his country billions of dollars in revenue: a 1,000-mile natural gas pipeline whose proposed route cuts through the heartland of the Taliban insurgency.

The United States strongly supports the proposed pipeline because it could draw Central Asia's significant energy resources to Pakistan and India an bypass Iran, Washington's top adversary in the region.

Karzai met with Turkmen, Indian and Pakistani officials in Ashgabat, the capital of neighboring Turkmenistan, to sign the accord.

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Choco
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote meljomur:

Sorry Choco. The spam software apparently has to be instructed on what is REAL spam. Did your post finally show up? Let us know.

I tried again and now it is there. Happy reading. Whatever you did it worked.

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Choco
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Currently Chatting

The other way we're subsidizing Walmart...

Most of us know how taxpayers subsidize Walmart's low wages with billions of dollars in Medicaid, food stamps, and other financial assistance for workers. But, did you know that we're also subsidizing the retail giant by paying the cost of their environmental destruction.

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