the so-called, "birthers"

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Comments to Hartmann on lying to his viewers, 2 Mar.’11:

Mr. Hartmann now with knowledge you intentionally lie to your viewers, 2 Mar.’11. Here’s how. On your slam against the so-called “Birthers” you intentionally misrepresent the facts.

It is the other way around rather than growing up in Kenya as you profess, he was born in Mombassa, Kenya and not Hawai’i as you claim. Did you personally witness the birth of the LHN in Honolu’lu? He instead grew up partially in Hawai’i and Indonesia because of the choices made by his mother.

You are only partially correct in declaring that the LHN produced his birth certificate. However, you fundamentally don’t understand how the system works in Hawai’i. The so-called, “State of Hawaii” sports 2 types of birth certificates. They are the short from and the long form of certificate.

You are correct that the fed. Constitution does require the qualification for the office of president to be a natural citizen. The usurper has decided to present his short form of the birth certificate which is only a mere declaration by the signatory of where the infant or child was born. Therefore there is another form called the long form for more conclusive proof. If the LHN, was born as his family claims to have been born in a Hawai’i hospital facility, at that time his attending physician would have signed and filed the facility’s notification of birth. For your information it is this long form being demanded by those in the know and demand the higher proof. If the LHN claims as you have stated been born in Hawai’i nei then he would have produced this facility issued certificate long ago and the matter would have been settled. He now serves as de facto U.S. president.

You asked the rhetorical question if I myself have my birth certificate. Well actually I possess them both, the short form and the long form. Mind you they are not the original as you make a big deal about obfuscating the real issue. Mine are both certified copies of the originals. This is perfectly legal and acceptable. I even had one in the positive where the text is white and the background is black issued originally during the so-called, “territorial” days. Therein, my name appeared in both UPPER and lower case in the script form or handwritten form. My 2 latest certified copies exhibit my name in entirely UPPER CASE. You’re right how the hell can this be a certified copy of the original when the original is different in at least the UPPER and lower case name? Do you think there is fraud here? Therefore, I wouldn’t trust these politicians the likes of Ms L. Lingle and Neil Abercrombie and the like.

His family has made the claim that he was born at two separate birthing facilities – Queens Hospital and Kapiolani Children’s Hospital. They sir are ¾ of a mile apart in the berg of Honolu’lu.

The LHN’s grandmother in Mombassa declared that he was born in Mombassa, Kenya. Do you even see the problem?

I realize this is your dog in the ring so it is difficult to be objective. This isn’t about racism, the Bushwhacker ought to be hung for overthrowing the Fed. Constitution and plunging the Union into two unlawful aggressive attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq and fomenting against Iran and Pakistan.

roy dahlin
Joined:
Feb. 9, 2011 4:22 pm

Comments

I posted this previously, but I'm going to repeat it here...

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

  • Anyone born inside the United States *
  • Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
  • Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
  • Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
  • Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
  • Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
  • Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
  • A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

What part of ONE PARENT being a US Citizen is not understood?

Stanly Anne Dunham was a US Citizen, born In Kansas, she met the test of living in the US for 5 years. Even if she had moved to HI before statehood, she was still a US citizen and met the test. So even if Obama was born on the Moon, Kenya, or England, he would still be a US citizen, because his mother was a US citizen. That fact alone... makes Obama a Natural Born Citizen.

And do you know why this was written and added to?

Mitt Romney's father George was going to run for president, 1968. He was born in Mexico. So the Republicans has to define what a Natural born citizen was. George's grandparents were with a Mormon colony in Mexico until the Mexican Revolution. Utah had outlawed polygamy. And Romney's grandparents were polygamous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney

Section 1401 clearly states that Obama meets the tests. And Remember, it was the Republicans who defined it as such so Romney could run.

You don't think grandparents can't get confused?

Mojavelyn's picture
Mojavelyn
Joined:
Dec. 29, 2010 10:35 am
Quote roy dahlin:

Comments to Hartmann on lying to his viewers, 2 Mar.’11:

Mr. Hartmann now with knowledge you intentionally lie to your viewers, 2 Mar.’11. Here’s how. On your slam against the so-called “Birthers” you intentionally misrepresent the facts.

It is the other way around rather than growing up in Kenya as you profess, he was born in Mombassa, Kenya and not Hawai’i as you claim. Did you personally witness the birth of the LHN in Honolu’lu? He instead grew up partially in Hawai’i and Indonesia because of the choices made by his mother.

You are only partially correct in declaring that the LHN produced his birth certificate. However, you fundamentally don’t understand how the system works in Hawai’i. The so-called, “State of Hawaii” sports 2 types of birth certificates. They are the short from and the long form of certificate.

False, no they don't. This is a right wing claim, but when I checked Hawaii's Sec of State website, they do not list any long form, nor short form, just Birth Certificate.

Here's the ordering form, you can see, or not see, a spot for Long Form.

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/pdf/birth.pdf

You are correct that the fed. Constitution does require the qualification for the office of president to be a natural citizen. The usurper has decided to present his short form of the birth certificate which is only a mere declaration by the signatory of where the infant or child was born. Therefore there is another form called the long form for more conclusive proof. If the LHN, was born as his family claims to have been born in a Hawai’i hospital facility, at that time his attending physician would have signed and filed the facility’s notification of birth. For your information it is this long form being demanded by those in the know and demand the higher proof. If the LHN claims as you have stated been born in Hawai’i nei then he would have produced this facility issued certificate long ago and the matter would have been settled. He now serves as de facto U.S. president.

You asked the rhetorical question if I myself have my birth certificate. Well actually I possess them both, the short form and the long form. Mind you they are not the original as you make a big deal about obfuscating the real issue. Mine are both certified copies of the originals. This is perfectly legal and acceptable. I even had one in the positive where the text is white and the background is black issued originally during the so-called, “territorial” days. Therein, my name appeared in both UPPER and lower case in the script form or handwritten form. My 2 latest certified copies exhibit my name in entirely UPPER CASE. You’re right how the hell can this be a certified copy of the original when the original is different in at least the UPPER and lower case name? Do you think there is fraud here? Therefore, I wouldn’t trust these politicians the likes of Ms L. Lingle and Neil Abercrombie and the like.

You were born in Hawaii?

His family has made the claim that he was born at two separate birthing facilities – Queens Hospital and Kapiolani Children’s Hospital. They sir are ¾ of a mile apart in the berg of Honolu’lu.

The LHN’s grandmother in Mombassa declared that he was born in Mombassa, Kenya. Do you even see the problem?

As his Grandmother has been dead for years, this casts doubt on this statement, and was never a resident of Mombassa. His grandfathers third wife, Sarah, does live in Mombassa, but was not a member of the family at the time of Obamas birth, marrying Hussein Obama in 1980. As for the hospital issue, Kapiolani merged with the Queen Maternity Center in 1978, and the Maternity ward Obama would have been born in is part of Kapiolani now. Not that different from my own sons maternity ward, which is now part of another hospital than the one he was born in.

I realize this is your dog in the ring so it is difficult to be objective. This isn’t about racism, the Bushwhacker ought to be hung for overthrowing the Fed. Constitution and plunging the Union into two unlawful aggressive attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq and fomenting against Iran and Pakistan.

I don't mind an argument, but these issues are very old, and frankly a bit weird.

downix's picture
downix
Joined:
Oct. 12, 2010 11:04 am

If "natural born" requires both parents to be citizens, what message would we be sending to our brave service men and women who have children born by/bare children to non-citizens (many of whom they met while serving/fighting for/even dying for their country)? That regardless of their sacrifice for this country, their children could never be legitimate candidates for the highest office in this land?

C Richard - Ada MI's picture
C Richard - Ada MI
Joined:
Mar. 3, 2011 7:41 am

Another dog in another show, weird is what they are, but I think they are protected, if not, maybe a DOWA [defense of weird act] could be floated.

I had a friend that actually made a decision about whether or not to be the class clown, I suppose it is a badge of honor to some.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Barrack H. Obama - Born in Kenya IV - The Real Birth Certificate AT LAST!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMF51vXblFI

Alex Jones - Phil Berg interview !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21-1cWqZG4g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBEothvYfkY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TgKU1LGyv8


Obama Forgery Exposed (Dr. Polarik Official Use)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDIVEfVGLBQ

Michelle Obama speaking at the LGBT Delegate (The World as it Should Be)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxh1PvjP0Ug

Grandmother says Obama born in Kenya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bloHSojeLAw

Kenyan Ambassador admits Obama born in Kenya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH4GX3Otf14

Obama in 1980 said he was born in Mombasa, Kenya

http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/12/03/obama-in-1980-said-he-was-born-in-mombasa-kenya/r

Volitzer's picture
Volitzer
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

These are criteria for Obama to be a naturalized US citizen, however a Presidential candidate must be 'natural-born' in order to hold office. The other thing is that he was born in Kenya and then went to live in Indonesia and had an Indonesian citizenship. America didn't allow for dual citizenship with Indonesia at the time of Obama's birth.

Quote Mojavelyn:

I posted this previously, but I'm going to repeat it here...

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

  • Anyone born inside the United States *
  • Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
  • Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
  • Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
  • Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
  • Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
  • Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
  • A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

What part of ONE PARENT being a US Citizen is not understood?

Stanly Anne Dunham was a US Citizen, born In Kansas, she met the test of living in the US for 5 years. Even if she had moved to HI before statehood, she was still a US citizen and met the test. So even if Obama was born on the Moon, Kenya, or England, he would still be a US citizen, because his mother was a US citizen. That fact alone... makes Obama a Natural Born Citizen.

And do you know why this was written and added to?

Mitt Romney's father George was going to run for president, 1968. He was born in Mexico. So the Republicans has to define what a Natural born citizen was. George's grandparents were with a Mormon colony in Mexico until the Mexican Revolution. Utah had outlawed polygamy. And Romney's grandparents were polygamous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney

Section 1401 clearly states that Obama meets the tests. And Remember, it was the Republicans who defined it as such so Romney could run.

You don't think grandparents can't get confused?

Volitzer's picture
Volitzer
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Here's a scenerio about being natural born and meeting Constitutional criteria with President Howard Taft and the 16th Amendment in case anyone still wants to play the race card.

16th Amendment improperly ratified.‏

This is my absolute favorite anti-income-tax argument. Most claims that Americans aren't required to pay income tax rely on legal interpretations so tortured only a tax resister could possibly believe them. But the Ohio thing has just enough plausibility to give even sane people pause.
It all started when Ohio was preparing to celebrate the 150th anniversary of its admission to the Union in 1953. Researchers looking for the original statehood documents discovered there'd been a little oversight. While Congress had approved Ohio's boundaries and constitution, it had never passed a resolution formally admitting the future land of the Buckeyes. Technically, therefore, Ohio was not a state.
Predictably, when this came to light it was the subject of much merriment. One senator joshingly suggested that his colleagues from Ohio were drawing federal paychecks under false pretenses.
But Ohio congressman George Bender thought it was no laughing matter. He introduced a bill in Congress to admit Ohio to the Union retroactive to March 1, 1803. At a special session at the old state capital in Chillicothe the Ohio state legislature approved a new petition for statehood that was delivered to Washington on horseback. Congress subsequently passed a joint resolution, and President Eisenhower, after a few more jokes, signed it on August 7, 1953.
But then the tax resisters got to work. They argued that since Ohio wasn't officially a state until 1953, its ratification of the 16th Amendment in 1911 was invalid, and thus Congress had no authority to enact an income tax.
Baloney, argued rational folk. A sufficient number of states voted for ratification even if you don't count Ohio.
OK, said the resisters, but the proposed amendment had been introduced to Congress by the administration of William H. Taft. Taft had been born in Cincinnati, Ohio, in 1857. The Constitution requires that presidents be natural-born citizens of the United States. Since Ohio was not a state in 1857, Taft was not a natural-born citizen, could not legally be president, and could not legally introduce the 16th Amendment. (Presumably one would also have problems with anything done by presidents Grant, Hayes, Garfield, B. Harrison, McKinley, and Harding, who were also born in Ohio.)
Get off it, the rationalists replied. The 1953 resolution retroactively admitted Ohio as of 1803, thereby rendering all subsequent events copacetic.
Uh-uh, said the resisters. The constitution says the Congress shall make no ex post facto law. That means no retroactive admissions to statehood.
Uh, we'll get back to you on that, said the rationalists.
A call to the IRS elicited the following official statement: "The courts have . . . rejected claims that the Sixteenth Amendment . . . was not properly ratified. . . . In Porth v. Brodrick, 214 F.2d 925 (10th Circuit 1954), the court dismissed an attack on the Sixteenth Amendment as being 'clearly unsubstantial and without merit,' as well as 'far fetched and frivolous.'"
Just one problem. The Porth decision didn't specifically address the Ohio argument. It just sort of spluttered that attacks on the 16th Amendment were stupid.
OK, they're stupid. But great matters have turned on seemingly sillier points of law. It's not like the Ohio argument couldn't have been defeated on the merits. One suspects that from a legal standpoint "ex post facto" doesn't mean exactly the same thing as "retroactive." And of course the weight of 150 years of history, during which time everyone thought Ohio had been properly admitted, ought to count for something.
I'm not defending the crackpots. But if you're a parent you recognize that "because I said so" isn't much of an argument. Guess it's different if you're a judge.

Volitzer's picture
Volitzer
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

There's a reason the 'natural-born' clause was placed in the first section of the US Constitution and the Founding Fathers knew it.

Volitzer's picture
Volitzer
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I think its rather pathetic (although in an amusing sort of way) that the Republicans have such a crap line up of GOP candidates for President that they need to harp on the "Obama is NOT an American citizen" debacle.

If that is your only chance to weasel into power in 2012. I dare say, it probably is most certainly a losing strategy.

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meljomur
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

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