Buy Gold?

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Time to buy gold.

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/12/16_Egon_von_Greyerz.html

It would be very prudent to accumulate gold against United States Dollars aggressively over the next fortnight."

Antifascist's picture
Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

While some people here seem to have a problem with the issue of 'individual rights' as being the closest thing to a political 'fact', no one seems to have much of a problem claiming that 'gold' is the closest thing to a financial 'fact'. Why is that? Is that because 'gold' is its own substance--something that you can 'feel, taste, touch, or smell'? However, as a substance, what is the 'real value' of gold? What are its real uses? Dental work. Blocking off ultraviolet rays in astronaut helmets. In fact, is its claim on its 'factual nature' in the financial markets really a 'fact'? In that respect, it appears that Antifascist is right in line with the libertarian, Ron Paul--both appear to claim so.....but, Antifascist says that he doesn't like libertarians--or fascists.....

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Kerry
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Kerry wrote...LOL..

“...the issue of 'individual rights' as being the closest thing to a political 'fact'...”

Are “rights” a fact or value? Where? Show me. Maybe you could teach Plato something. Is “closest to a political fact” a sophist’s rhetorical escape hatch? How can anything be “close” to being a fact, or "close" to being a non-fact for that matter? Is it 50% a fact and 49% a value, and 1% fiber? What the heck does this mean Kerry?

...no one seems to have much of a problem claiming that 'gold' is the closest thing to a financial 'fact'.

This is nonsense. How could “gold” be a “non-financial fact”? And there is that weasel word “closest” again. Is gold 71% a financial fact? More nonsense. What could the proposition, “gold is the farthest thing from being a non-financial fact” possibly mean in English? See, your sentences are total nonsense. You write like this all the time. Your statements appear to having meaning at first glance, but then fail the logical test of Falsifiability and so they are meaningless gibberish, i.e., or Libertarianism.

In fact, is its [gold’s] claim on its 'factual nature' in the financial markets really a 'fact'? In that respect, it appears that Antifascist is right in line with the libertarian,

Well, so I guess that makes everyone that understands gold as a monetary metal a libertarian: your criterion for membership too low. I’m glad Ron Paul made the team. How do you become a ranked member? “Almost” believe in gravity and gold as closest to a non-political non-fact? I don’t want to be a member of any club that would have me as its member.

That’s it? You must have run out of ideas. Come on Kerry! People are reading this you know.

Hey, Ron Paul! Pull this guy off the blogs because he is killing your campaign by making you sound like a complete fool.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Antifascist:

Are “rights” a fact or value? Where? Show me. Maybe you could teach Plato something. Is “closest to a political fact” a sophist’s rhetorical escape hatch? How can anything be “close” to being a fact, or "close" to being a non-fact for that matter? Is it 50% a fact and 49% a value, and 1% fiber? What the heck does this mean Kerry?

You made this statement on the Libertarian and Fascism thread:

What is causing the disagreement of fact? The police were making a factual statement, “The arrested man was of Irish heritage.” This is a “factual” statement. In logic it’s called a “synthetic proposition.” All factual statements are synthetic statements: X is (or has the attributes of) A, B, C, and D qualities like color, shape, and so on. Factual statements can be either true, or false.

With respect to the financial markets and how such markets 'valuate' anything, how is 'gold' a 'fact', Antifascist? One person is saying that 'gold is overvalued'--you are saying that 'gold is undervalued'--what aspect of the 'fact' of 'gold' is there to establish its 'value'? You seem to offer some idea that 'gold' has a 'factual value' with respect to the market. I was wondering how you made that assessment--and, how, in comparing it to the libertarian, Ron Paul, that 'assessment of this rather fundamental, or foundational, value of gold (as if 'fact')' is any different from Ron Paul's--vs., of course, mere tautologies used as if 'fact'......

Quote Antifascist:

This is nonsense. How could “gold” be a “non-financial fact”? And there is that weasel word “closest” again.

It's not a 'weasel word', Antifascist--what is ANY 'FACT' IN THE FINANCIAL MARKET BASED ON? Why, nothing more and nothing less THAN THE VALUE GIVEN IT. There is no more 'fact' on the 'value of gold' in financial markets than that. Now, of course, up against 'rights' (I noticed how you left the word 'individual' out--but, I'll get back to that), 'gold' appears to have a 'lot of facts'--but, what is the nature of the real 'fact' of 'gold'? As a substance, its use is rather restricted--dental fillings, shields in the helmut's of astronauts, perhaps a few other rather nebulous purposes outside of its 'validation in financial markets'--but, to you and Ron Paul (did I say I was a Ron Paul supporter?), 'gold' has an intrinsic, and 'factual', value in financial markets. One says 'it's too high', you say 'it's too low', if there is a 'factual value' in that, how can you determine that AS A 'FACT'? There is no more 'objective basis' for its 'fact-ness' than 'rights' alone do. However, in a political sense, 'rights in politics' do have as much (and I would argue more) a factual basis as 'gold in financial markets' when you connect 'rights' to 'individuals'--persons--the only real entity in politics that has a component that can be 'felt, smelled, tasted, touched, or heard'--and, the only real entity in society that can feel and think--nothing else as a 'social element' can do so--any more that 'gold' can be validated by anything 'FACTUAL' in the 'financial markets'.

So, Antifascist, you don't seem to use the same 'basis in fact' for your supposed 'rational assertions' as you accuse others of not doing. Is 'gold' really a 'fact' from which to assert a beginning to the rational analysis of the 'financial markets'? Certainly of less substance than 'individuals' have in asserting 'rights' in the political sense, isn't there? And, remember, this is what Locke did say about 'gold' and its 'social influences' (financial markets and all) in The Two Treatises on Government:

37. This is certain, that in the beginning, before the desire of having more than man needed had altered the intrinsic value of things, which depends only on their usefulness to the life of man; or had agreed, that a little piece of yellow metal, which would keep without wasting or decay, should be worth a great piece of flesh, or a whole heap of corn; though men had a right to appropriate, by their labour, each one of himself, as much of the things of nature, as he could use: yet this could not be much, nor to the prejudice of others, where the same plenty was still left to those who would use the same industry.

So, your support of the 'fact' of 'gold' in such financial markets is just as much condoning the patriarchal and fascist-proned conditions such authorities can assert in their 'validations' of things that aren't directly related to production and service in the market--and just as much in line with the libertarian Ron Paul as any libertarian you appear to, otherwise, have issues with.....people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones......

Quote Antifascist:

That’s it? You must have run out of ideas. Come on Kerry! People are reading this you know.

I know.....what's your point?

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Kerry
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I’m ready baby!!!! You can make a shit load of money if you haven’t bought gold yet and jump in on the fire sale. And the bonus is that buying gold FUCKS WALL STREET!!!

Really? Who has possession of this gold now? And, more to the point, who is 'validating this gold' IF IT ISN'T WALL STREET?

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Kerry
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Mumbo-jumbo? Do you have a FACTUAL basis for that, Anti-fascist? I see the financial markets (including the 'validation of gold') operating more like the gambling industry--not like anything of a factual nature. And, as anyone who knows how the real gambling industry works would know, whatever is in position to 'make the house rules' never loses money--it justs 'adjusts its payouts' to everyone else....including the financial markets' 'validation of gold'.....there is no 'percentage of facts' here, there is NO FACT. And, you certainly aren't 'FUCKING WALL STREET' over it since you readily play THEIR GAME. And, there is more of a FACTUAL nature in politics to INDIVIDUAL rights than there is some 'fact to gold' in the financial markets, anyway. What percentage? Well, that's where influences in politics other than those based on INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS can 'condition it' when they, like the financial markets 'house rules', are in a position to make such 'rules' to 'adjust it'....you probably know that if you work in the field of law....

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Kerry
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Kerry, you are asking me what your mumbo jumbo means. What a bunch of stupid nonsense. Nobody knows what the fuck you are talking about. Hey, let the readers decide who is 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag. Listen to the experts and stop trying to make you crap a personal issue with me.

Kerry, you are not giving us any substantivie information rather just moving words around in some abstract libertarian utopian world in your head. There is nobody here that can tell us what you are talking about. I, on the other hand, have provided two metals experts that are pulling their hair out saying that stocks will crash further and metals will skyrocket. You have been silent on this emergency. Should or should we not buy silver and gold? Come on! Shut up or put up! You spout all day but can't give us any useful information of the pending world financial crash. There is something seriously wrong with you! What is your take on the interviews? Stop wasting our time with this nonsense! You are just talking bar room economics.

Jim Rickards! is so cool! (listen at 8:50 minutes)...no libertarian mumbo jumbo here...

Big institution like banks, and individual investors trading on margin have to come up with cash to cover bank customer account cash withdraws and their margin calls so they are having to sell the yacht, the sports car, the second wife, and lastly--their gold. They don’t want to sell their gold, but they must to come up with the cash to cover bad stocks paper. When these big investors pee on themselves and finally sell their gold—this selling causes the price of gold to drop! That is when the little guys with cash (not cash in the fucking bank) go in and suck up the gold when the price dips—but before the last dog dies.

Now get this, Egon von Greyerz , ( listen at 2 minutes) Founder and Managing Partner of Matterhorn Asset Management AG & GoldSwitzerland, is saying that the price of gold could drop to $1410 shortly. Gold is heading to $5,000 next year to even $10,000 per ounce! Yahoo! All major sovereign states and banks are bankrupt! This has never happened before! Pensions will be worthless!

I’m ready baby!!!! You can make a shit load of money if you haven’t bought gold yet and jump in on the fire sale. And the bonus is that buying gold FUCKS WALL STREET!!!

Decoupling of Paper gold futures price and Free Gold price:

Ann Barnhardt: Explaining Decoupling

The thing newbies to this kind of thinking must realize is that the price of gold will not rise to Freegold valuations, it must fall hard first. This is simply because the paper gold (futures) market cannot exist with Freegold. Freegold cannot be “free” until the paper market dies and paper supply collapses with it. This very process frees gold.

Since gold is priced by the futures market, price will fall as the process Ann describes plays out. It will dawn on people at some point that “in your hands physical” is the only safe place to be where your capital has a 100% chance of being retained and not stolen. The smart ones will immediately cash out in dollars and head for somewhere where they can acquire physical. The dumb ones will attempt to take actual delivery, and I mean actual where they hire a Brinks truck to pick the shit up at the vault. Then they will find out that the “delivery” was really and IOU (Certificate) for gold. When they show up at at the vault they will be informed that the gold has already been removed by some guy that an identical Certificate. That’s when the shit hits the fan and real panic sets in.

In short order we are going to see a divergence of the paper price and the spot price. For us small ants it will look like this: we will be licking our chops as price collapses on the Comex and we will call our favorite gold dealer with a purchase order. He is then going to quote us a price that in no way resembles the price on the CNBC ticker. He will politely tell you that the real price is what he is quoting, and that is if you are lucky. This is going to happen so fast he probably will say he’s not a seller at any price, but would be more than happy to buy your gold.

Waiting for the gold price to plunge in order to pick up your physical at a bargain price is a fools errand and will end with you holding a fistful of dying dollars. The flow of gold will disappear and gold will go into hiding. Only a Freegold price will bring it back out into the light of day.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Antifascist:

Kerry, you are asking me what your mumbo jumbo means. What a bunch of stupid nonsense. Nobody knows what the fuck you are talking about. Hey, let the readers decide who is 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag. Listen to the experts and stop trying to make you crap a personal issue with me.

As you pulled your page out of each post's context, Antifascist, you failed to address the questions and points that I made--including this issue that, if one poster says 'gold' is 'too high' ('too manipulated') and you say 'gold' is 'too law' (what, not 'manipulated enough'), what lies in the FACT of 'gold' to determine that? Nothing than what WALL STREET says it is....

Quote Antifascist:

Kerry, you are not giving us any substantivie information rather just moving words around in some abstract libertarian utopian world in your head.

No, I'm not. I know what 'fact' there is in 'gold' as a substance--even have examples of its use in the productive economy--what I don't see is how 'gold' is any more a 'fact' in the financial markets than anything the financial markets manipulate....

And, please, quit trying to use the term 'libertarian' as an insult upon me, Antifascist. I've used that term for going on five years to me how I politically prioritize individual rights in authorizing anything like political authority in my stead--you and I have been over that many times--including the point of 'substantive logic' (putting the thinker in as one of the 'facts' of the logic) vs. 'formal logic' (keeping the thinker out in describing issues as a separate logical maneuver)....

Quote Antifascist:

There is nobody here that can tell us what you are talking about.

You say that as you ignore what I said, Antifascist--how convenient for you....

Quote Antifascist:

I, on the other hand, have provided two metals experts that are pulling their hair out saying that stocks will crash further and metals will skyrocket.

In its 'validation in the financial markets'--a very WALL STREET MANEUVER, Antfascist. So, how it that FUCKING WALL STREET?

Quote Antifascist:

Should or should we not buy silver and gold? Come on!

Should we or should we not base the market on production and goods--and NOT HOW WALL STREET VALIDATES THE FINANCIAL MARKETS? Including gold and silver....it's the same 'bubble and burst' game that has created the problem we are in now--and 'I' thought you were 'against fascism'.....

Quote Antifascist:

You are just talking bar room economics.

Is that what you want to call the economy that is based on real labor and production now, Antifascist? 'Bar room economics'. Your claim against fascism and even libertarians like Ron Paul and his insistence on the 'market value of gold' is dwindling as we speak, Antifascist.....

The rest of the post, I have no time to comment.

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Kerry
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I know what 'fact' there is in 'gold' as a substance--even have examples of its use in the productive economy--what I don't see is how 'gold' is any more a 'fact' in the financial markets than anything the financial markets manipulate....

What could this possibly mean?

you say 'gold' is 'too law' (what, not 'manipulated enough'), what lies in the FACT of 'gold' to determine that?

Again, you want to personalize this argument and ignore the ten plus experts that have explained the manipulation, but you will not go there because it is over your head. Personal characterization is the only thing you know how to do.

In its 'validation in the financial markets'--a very WALL STREET MANEUVER, Antfascist. So, how it that FUCKING WALL STREET?

Again, it sounds like you have an insight, but I don’t think anyone else has the slightest idea what you are talking about. Is pulling your money out of the banks somehow validating the banks because you have to go there to withdraw your money? You can’t even find a decent contradiction. You are debating voices in your head?

Should we or should we not base the market on production and goods--and NOT HOW WALL STREET VALIDATES THE FINANCIAL MARKETS? Including gold and silver....it's the same 'bubble and burst' game that has created the problem we are in now--and 'I' thought you were 'against fascism'.....

What does this have to do with fascism? How does hedging your cash with silver and gold make one a fascist? This is yet another pseudo-argument on your part. Schizophrenics argue like you have in this thread.

Is that what you want to call the economy that is based on real labor and production now, Antifascist? 'Bar room economics'.

Again, shifting the target of my criticism: I am referring to your lack of comprehension of economics—you are unstudied, uncritical, and incomprehensible. It is one thing for you to believe in this silliness, but you insist that others agree with your nonsense. It is obvious that the only things you have done is memorize libertarian talking points, internalized it, and talk endlessly in circles with a pretentious tone of self-indulgent false expertise. Is there anyone here that can translate what Kerry said into simple, plain, ordinary English? And then call it “Libertarianism”?

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Folker Hellmeyer and James Turk talk about Europe, inflation and gold

In this video Folker Hellmeyer, chief analyst at Bremer Landesbank, and James Turk of the GoldMoney Foundation, talk about the problems facing the eurozone and the coming pick up in inflation. Hellmeyer doesn’t see a recession coming in Europe. However he believes that inflation will pick up and go back to the levels of the 1980s. In his opinion, the disinflationary period following the 1980s is widely misunderstood and was caused by the opening of communist countries which lead to overcapacities in global labour markets. Those resources have now been exploited and can’t buffer inflationary pressures any longer. They agree, that the government inflation statistics have been modified to show lower numbers – as claimed by John Williams of shadowstats.com – leading to a growing inflation-burden on the middle classs.

Hellmeyer sees a strong accumulation of gold by emerging markets’ central banks. He thinks that the experiment of un-backed currencies over the last 40 years was a mistake and that we need to go back to a system in which gold plays a major role. He will not give a forecast on specific prices for gold and silver for the next 5 to 10 years, but he is sure that the prices will be much, much higher in the future. He therefore advocates that every citizen sets up his own gold and silver standard. Gold and silver can’t be printed and are in demand. Paper prices can’t fool markets for long, says Hellmeyer.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Gold is down over $250 from my original post. The facts show I was right.

Gold has a well established trading range and we are at the top of it. Which means there is little upside and a huge downside.

And I noticed that you want to discuss metals, but act like you don't know that the metals market is being manipulated to keep prices down. That means you are either really stupid, or unbelievably psychopathically dishonest and I think it is the latter.

Wrong. I do not want to discuss metals and I do not know the metals market. I posted this because of all the hype in the media to buy gold and the record prices reminded me of the housing bubble. Plus, I know the secret is to buy low and to sell high.

Maybe it is profit taking and not manipulation. After all, the secret is to sell high. I think the manipulation of gold was done on the way up with all the pumping.

Why the name calling? How can you diagnose somebody as "unbelievably psychopathically dishonest" from a couple of sentences? Your argument would be stronger without the insults and guesses. Just stick to the facts like Joe Friday.

Gold's current price: $1598.50
Original post price: $1861.30

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spicoli
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Jun. 4, 2010 12:12 pm
Quote Antifascist:
Quote Kerry:

I know what 'fact' there is in 'gold' as a substance--even have examples of its use in the productive economy--what I don't see is how 'gold' is any more a 'fact' in the financial markets than anything the financial markets manipulate....

What could this possibly mean?

What I've already said, Antifascist:

It's not a 'weasel word', Antifascist--what is ANY 'FACT' IN THE FINANCIAL MARKET BASED ON? Why, nothing more and nothing less THAN THE VALUE GIVEN IT. There is no more 'fact' on the 'value of gold' in financial markets than that.

I don't see 'speculation in the financial markets' as FACTS, Antifascist. Despite what 'formal logic' they propose to be using.....it's more like gambling (and there is a 'logic' to that, also)--not like a natural science...and, as I said, with the gambling industry, the one in position to 'make the house rules' never loses money.....

Quote Antifascist:

Again, you want to personalize this argument and ignore the ten plus experts that have explained the manipulation, but you will not go there because it is over your head. Personal characterization is the only thing you know how to do.

Yes, that is the distinction I made on your Republican Neoliberalism thread with Feenberg's points on 'substantive logic' vs. 'formal logic'. However, when it comes to anything of a political nature (and economics has a political nature), do you really think it is appropriate to make judgments thatdon't involve personal characterizations? I think that was the entire point that Feenberg was making with how previous thinkers logically internalized their political conduct (the basis for 'substantive logic')--externalizing that to 'something other' as a basis for the determination of political order is exactly what Feenberg described as the 'logical set-up for civilization's end' by not thinking that the rationale for anything that has a political component, or nature, to it has to carry a personal characterization of it. There is no such thing as 'objective justice' without its 'subjective appreciation' otherwise--certainly not one that can be created by an otherwise 'formally logical' premise that carries no human (as in 'personal') input....

Quote Antifascist:
Quote Kerry:

In its 'validation in the financial markets'--a very WALL STREET MANEUVER, Antfascist. So, how it that FUCKING WALL STREET?

Again, it sounds like you have an insight, but I don’t think anyone else has the slightest idea what you are talking about. Is pulling your money out of the banks somehow validating the banks because you have to go there to withdraw your money? You can’t even find a decent contradiction. You are debating voices in your head?

What determines what your money is worth even if you pull it out of the bank, Antifascist? And, how is 'gold' in any way determined differently than that? Is this a community 'using that gold' in whatever way it can be used in production--or is it something else 'valuing that gold' apart from its productive use? And, since it is something else 'valuing that gold' apart from its productive use--and speculating on that 'value' (you know, is it 'too high', or is it 'too low')--how is that any different from any speculation in the financial markets--and how does that represent anything that could be said to be 'against fascism'?

My dictionary says that fascism 'stands for a centralized autocratic often militaristic government'--and what can determine the value of 'gold' apart from its productive uses other than an autocratic central power like what is represented by the financial markets?

Quote Antifascist:
Quote Kerry:

Should we or should we not base the market on production and goods--and NOT HOW WALL STREET VALIDATES THE FINANCIAL MARKETS? Including gold and silver....it's the same 'bubble and burst' game that has created the problem we are in now--and 'I' thought you were 'against fascism'.....

What does this have to do with fascism? How does hedging your cash with silver and gold make one a fascist? This is yet another pseudo-argument on your part. Schizophrenics argue like you have in this thread.

Yeah, everyone lately loves to use labels without explaining themselves--including you 'Antifascist'. The 'pseudo-argument' is in acknowledging that the very industry YOU are relying on to 'validate that gold', the speculating financial markets, are the very ones that endorse the autocratic centralizing processes that promote the very fascist tendencies that you claim to be against. And, YOU claim that 'I' am schizophrenic? You are not recognizing your own complacency in supporting a fascist-creating industry that YOU NEED to 'validate your gold' above and beyond anything that 'gold' represents in its productive value--so, you are schizophrenic that accepts this dichotomy of appealing to the very industry that your cliams on 'antifascism' would otherwise reject--or you are a sophisticated and subtle liar in claiming that you are 'Anti-fascist' to begin with--the very industries that you rely on to 'validate that gold' are some of the most fascist-proned industries in the world...capitalizing on the idea that military force creates 'monetary value' in empires moreso than the 'productive economy' that each community within it may be based on....

Quote Antifascist:

Again, shifting the target of my criticism: I am referring to your lack of comprehension of economics—you are unstudied, uncritical, and incomprehensible.

What is this? Has everyone decided to be a condescending ass in thomland? Even Antifascist who takes pride in having the longest running thread here--keeps researching and posting on it for its support--claiming that there is something more in this 'validation of gold' than what the neoliberal republicans tell Antifascist what it's worth? And, then, turns it on me as being not 'analytical enough' to see it. See what, Antifascist? I see your hypocrisy, if that's what you mean....

Quote Antifascist:

It is obvious that the only things you have done is memorize libertarian talking points, internalized it, and talk endlessly in circles with a pretentious tone of self-indulgent false expertise. Is there anyone here that can translate what Kerry said into simple, plain, ordinary English? And then call it “Libertarianism”?

And, here comes the other label--libertarianism. Now, maybe I'm not as smart as Antifascist thinks Antifascist is, but if Antifascist will look back on our discussions, this insistence on the 'validation of gold in the financial markets' is more right in line with THE LIBERTARIAN RON PAUL than it is in 'my understanding' of it--or anything that I said about it.....but, as with all hypocrites, Antifascist, the 'label' counts when the rationale and reason doesn't, doesn't it? Just like what you might accuse the neoliberal republicans of doing.....

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Kerry
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Antifascist:

Kerry, it's time to take your medication. If you have so time, maybe you can study the metals experts I provided...but then you are a Libertarian and all that libertarian mumbo jumbo amounts to doing nothing, and complaining that the metals market is like a casino...shock!!! You're a damned genius!!!! If you are in cash, you are going to lose your ass.

Oh, more stupid than that as far as your position goes, Antifascist--I'm into hoarding NOTHING. I am dependent totally upon my services making my living. And, if it gets to where that doesn't work or I can't do that for any reason, I don't mind the simple life--and, if I can't do that under my own volition for whatever reason, I don't mind dying.....at any rate, away from the self-important hoarders.....I'm not here to impress anyone with my possessions....in thomland or my personal life.....

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Kerry
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Plus, I know the secret is to buy low and to sell high.

Well, then good. I hope your strategy works. Gold is predicted to drop to $1410...the 250 down you mentioned is insignificant...the coin dealers plus percent is only about $95.00 on Gold Eagles, hardly as much as tax. So you buy your way and I will buy my way...the amounts are insignificant. I heard all the same arguments when gold was at $350...that's what happens with tunnel vision. Prices for gold under $1,600 is a huge bargain. Buyers are backing up the truck to buy gold knowing the window of opportunity will not be long. All the European banks are about to collaspe but our media is instead encouraging Americans to stay in the stock market and buy worthless paper.

Kerry, it's time to take your medication. If you have so time, maybe you can study the metals experts I provided...but then you are a Libertarian and all that libertarian mumbo jumbo amounts to doing nothing, and complaining that the metals market is like a casino...shock!!! You're a damned genius!!!! If you are in cash, you are going to lose your ass.

‘Bargain’ gold spurs buying in Dubai

Jim Rickards - This Will Send the Price of Gold to the Moon

Jim Rickards! is so cool! (listen at 8:50 minutes)...no libertarian mumbo jumbo here...

Big institution like banks, and individual investors trading on margin have to come up with cash to cover bank customer account cash withdraws and their margin calls so they are having to sell the yacht, the sports car, the second wife, and lastly--their gold. They don’t want to sell their gold, but they must to come up with the cash to cover bad stocks paper. When these big investors pee on themselves and finally sell their gold—this selling causes the price of gold to drop! That is when the little guys with cash (not cash in the fucking bank) go in and suck up the gold when the price dips—but before the last dog dies.

Now get this, Egon von Greyerz , ( listen at 2 minutes) Founder and Managing Partner of Matterhorn Asset Management AG & GoldSwitzerland, is saying that the price of gold could drop to $1410 shortly. Gold is heading to $5,000 next year to even $10,000 per ounce! Yahoo! All major sovereign states and banks are bankrupt! This has never happened before! Pensions will be worthless!

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
I'm not here to impress anyone with my possessions....in thomland or my personal life.....

We are not impressed. Male escorts will have a difficult time also in the financial collapse.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Antifascist:Well, then good. I hope your strategy works. Gold is predicted to drop to $1410...the 250 down you mentioned is insignificant...the coin dealers plus percent is only about $95.00 on Gold Eagles, hardly as much as tax. So you buy your way and I will buy my way...the amounts are insignificant. I heard all the same arguments when gold was at $350...that's what happens with tunnel vision.

I thought the object was to make money... not lose it! $250 is not insignificant.

No, the same argument was not made when gold was $350. Gold was not historical highs then. My argument is why would you buy gold at historical highs when the secret is to buy low and sell high.

I do not own gold and I am not interested in owning gold.

Gold's current price: $1590.94
Original post price: $1861.30

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spicoli
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Jun. 4, 2010 12:12 pm

Of course, everyone's an idiot but you, Antifascist. Even the idiots that can see how you do seem to say one thing--but do another. I mean how does the centralizing power structure that determines the value of gold apart from its use in production do that other than by its preeminent position to impose such a value? Of course, 'freely run' by the greedy motives of those who support it--just like gambling but with a very thin appearance of being 'free' from the interdiction of the centralizing forces that really create it. It is no more 'natural' to use as a 'rational concept for civilization' than war is 'natural' to government--and it carries the same centralizing enforcement of empire into the economy as much as any imposition upon those who really work to produce and serve--with exactly the same form of fascist elements to do it with, also.

But, no, certainly don't think of anything like a government securing and guaranteeing individual rights to real individuals--that is so blase' for those who feign a 'community interest' when their actions indicate more a motive towards personal gain (as, according to Antifascist, any 'critical analysis' would indicate)....I, for one, would rather the person admit it is for personal gain--then, I would know what I was up against.....this pretending and going around as if one is 'too smart for a power structure based on individual rights' is, once again, as far as I can see it, ruining this country....perhaps that's the whole point--'we' deserve what 'we' promote--the 'validation of gold' against its 'real worth' in production and all....by those 'too smart' to guage political implementations by personal characterizations.....why, any 'idiot' should know that, right, 'Anti-fascist'?

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Kerry
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I heard all the same arguments when gold was at $350...that's what happens with tunnel vision. Prices for gold under $1,600 is a huge bargain. Buyers are backing up the truck to buy gold knowing the window of opportunity will not be long. All the European banks are about to collaspe but our media is instead encouraging Americans to stay in the stock market and buy worthless stock paper. Those that own their home know the value of their investments has dropped 50% and is getting worst. Of course the price of homes is only relevant if they decide to sell, otherwise it is theoritical. Same with metals. In five years silver will be worth $1000 per ounce. Some experts say $20,000 per ounce for gold. A median priced home in California is priced at $200,000. 401Ks will drop 80% in value. The Fed will not allow a full deleveraging of the system, they will flood the system with paper, that is what will cause the dollar to lose 70% to 80% of its purchasing power.

Are you telling people not to buy precious metals? If so, you're an idiot.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Well, my own family bought gold when it was well under $400 an ounce. The purpose was to preserve purchasing power...not to make a profit They haven't bought or sold gold for several years. The goal was accomplished.

Things have their perceived value and their true value. The true value of a house is what it would cost to duplicate it. The true value of gold is what it costs to produce it. The true value of that $20 shirt made in China is probably 50 cents. If you really want that 50 cent shirt, you'll pay $20 for it. People pay more for things than they are worth all the time.

If people agree gold is worth more, it is. If they agree it's worth less, it is.

What's the value of a drop of water in the desert when you're dying of thirst? What's the value of a drop of water in a flood?

Supply and demand come into play. Same with gold. If demand goes up, the price will go up. If demand goes down, the price will go down. Place your bets on tomorrow's perceived value, and keep in mind that its true value is what it cost to produce it..

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease".

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Thank you Polycarp...and DRC...for your great comments!!! Get a load of this....

Silver's Price Backwardation is 'Scary' and 'Frightening' - Pointing to Disappearing Supplies

SEE GRAPH

Silver is in backwardation phase i.e. when spot price is higher than future price. It’s rare in commodities, but it’s happening here. During my last visit to Chicago/New York in Aug-2011 and I was talking to some senior analysts at UBS, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs who were bullish on silver and its reaching its record pace going forward. While production has been sharply declining for many years and demand is rising sharply especially from China. The chart below illustrates exactly what’s happening:

Sources: IMF, GFMS, Commodity market, Conversation with Jim Rogers.

Breaking news: If you analyse the chart, the world will run out of silver by 2020. Scary and dangerous situation ahead. But I am happy, since my clients have already taken position in silver and this is the best investment of the decade. And I am not the only one who believes in this. Jim Rogers—the most well respect commodity guru, the person who taught me the strategic insight about commodity market is also bullish on silver.

Such opportunities are incredibly rare and fleeting. It’s not every day that the existing supply of a major investment asset goes extinct. In a recent Forbes interview, Dr Stephen Leeb called this situation “scary” and “frightening,” but said “An investment in silver could be an absolute huge, huge winner. Already, silver is becoming more difficult to come by.”

Physical silver seems to have simply evaporated from the Indian markets, with delivery going from immediate, to three days to a week now, and that too without a guarantee of delivery. Earlier this year, BullionVault.com reportedly posted a page on their website stating, they weren’t accepting orders for silver in London. And one of the largest online dealers of silver bullion – the American Precious Metals Exchange – is now offering to buy back silver coins for a generous premium.

Gold 200 day moving average (Green Line)

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Antifascist
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from above:" Breaking news: If you analyse the chart, the world will run out of silver by 2020.

"Such opportunities are incredibly rare and fleeting. It’s not every day that the existing supply of a major investment asset goes extinct"

poly replies: Hmmmm.Like water in the desert perhaps? Silver has industrial applications....required in manufacturing many products other than as use for decorative trinkets.

I know where a couple million bucks worth of silver are laying on the ground in a huge pile It's been there for years.. Trailings from extinct mining operations. The costs of processing it, however, exceed its value. Calico Ghost Town (now a county park) outside of Barstow, Calif..Take the train ride, and they'll point it out to you.

After smelting, it could be several days of global industrial supply. Non-renewable resources of the planet are finite. When used up and gone.... they are gone.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease".

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Wall Street would rather you buy financial paper that is a bet on financial paper that is backed by nothing. Derivatives. If you're a big enough player, the government and the Fed will bail your fanny when you lose it. Nearly $12 trillion so far and counting.

If you're a small player...you should have known better. Bail your own fanny.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Gold 200 day moving average (Green Line)

Oh, a message to Spicoli. You keep posting these numbers:

Gold's current price: $1590.94

Original post price: $1861.30

Well, those numbers as you present them are meaningless...this is a Dummy's way of looking at it. That is because buying the dips over the spread of time can bring down a person's AVERAGE purchase price per ounce of gold, or silver. So even if you buy at $1861.30 your average price per ounce can still be low like $1,000.

Newbies overlook the influence of averages and don't realize that over time your average can drop even if you bought relatively higher a few times in a volitile metals market.

The metals market is being ripped sawed to scare away Newbies because the Wall Street Thugs know that new buyers are frightened away by volitility. That's what happens with tunnel vision.

Watch out for Wall Street Trolls! I see them at all the metals websites. They want you to lose your ass!

Darn! Gold is going up. I was hoping to buy at $1,400 to lower my average purchase price.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Notice that when the NY NYMEX opens silver drops (this has happened since the new Hong Kong metals desk opened this year) and when Hong Kong opens silver regains its price. This is because the New York desk inputs bullshit futures sells driving down the price.

See the live clock count down of office hours of NY NYMEX and Hong Kong at the bottom of the silver chart.

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Antifascist
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Morgan Stanley Deconstructs The Funding Crisis At The Heart Of The Recent Gold Sell Off, And Why The Gold Surge Can Resume: Submitted by Tyler Durden on 12/20/2011 11:10 -0500

A week ago, we touched upon the likelihood that the recent gold sell-off was driven primarily due to a quirk in liquidity provisioning in which gold plays a key role via its "forward lease rates", or the Libor-GOFO differential. Specifically, in "As Negative Gold Lease Rates Collapse, The Gold Sell Off Is Likely Coming To An End" we said, "In a nutshell, negative lease rates mean one has to pay for the "privilege" of lending out one's gold as collateral - a prima facie collateral crunch. The lower the lease rate, the greater the use of gold as a source of liquidity - and since the indicator is public - it is all too easy for entities that do have liquidity to game the spread and force sell offs by those who are telegraphing they are in dire straits and will sell their gold at any price if forced, to prevent a liquidity collapse." Said otherwise, the lower lease rates drop, and they recently hit a record low for the 3M varietal, the likelier it is that gold may see substantial moves lower. Today, Morgan Stanley's Peter Richardson recaps precisely what was said here, in a note titled "Recent fall in gold prices points to bank funding costs." Granted, MS only looks at the first part of the equation - the dropping lease rates, and ignores the re-normalization in gold, aka the tightening in lease rates. Well, with the 3M forward lease rate now almost back to unchanged, it appears our speculation that the gold sell off, with spot at $1575 on the 15th, is over were correct, and gold is now $40 higher, and just below the critical 200 DMA that everyone saw as the catalyst of gold going to $0. So what does MS have to add to our analysis? Well, much more optimism for one, because not only does the bank think we are right that the collapse in negative lease rates (i,e., the flattening to practically unchanged) mean the sell off is over, but such a normalization of the gold lease market has "the makings of a renewed upward assault on the recent all-time high.... Our current gold price forecast for 2012 of US$2,200/oz remains in place under these circumstances...."

...We expect this to result in a consolidation in the gold price above the key technical downside support level of US$1,543/oz before the adoption of more stimulatory measures by central banks, and the US Federal Reserve in particular, provides the catalyst for a renewed rally. If, as we expect, the timing of this policy initiative coincides with a normalizing in the gold lease market, then the makings of a renewed upward assault on the recent all-time high will be back in place. Our current gold price forecast for 2012 of US$2,200/oz remains in place under these circumstances.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

When the central banks have enough gold in their vaults to do business under the new system, gold will be revalued and fiat money...dollars...will be devalued. Then there will be printing of money like there is no tomorrow. So far the printing is not intended to fix the debt crisis, but only to kick the can down the road. When the massive printing starts, the intent will be to debase the currency and fix this banking mess. When the central banks have enough gold, only then will money printing be restrained.

And if you have cash, you're fucked because it will only be worth 80% of its current value. If you have precious metals, live a decent life as best you can.

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Antifascist
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Investors are furious that they can’t get back the gold and silver they stashed with the failed brokerage MF Global.

The Silver Rush at MF Global

And the clients are still being charged storage fees for their missing gold and silver. You can't make this stuff up. CANADIAN MF Global customers didn’t lose a dime…..thanks to REGULATIONS.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/the-systemic-risk-revealed-by-mf-globals-collapse/2011/12/14/gIQAtrTI1O_story.html

So much for Libertarian Pie In The Sky Utopian self regulation. LOL!!!!

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Antifascist wrote:
Kerry wrote:
Should we or should we not base the market on production and goods--and NOT HOW WALL STREET VALIDATES THE FINANCIAL MARKETS? Including gold and silver....it's the same 'bubble and burst' game that has created the problem we are in now--and 'I' thought you were 'against fascism'.....

What does this have to do with fascism? How does hedging your cash with silver and gold make one a fascist? This is yet another pseudo-argument on your part. Schizophrenics argue like you have in this thread.

The silver and gold markets in a bubble? The experts disagree

No Bubble as Gold, Silver Rise On US Dollar Woes.

"No Gold Bubble Until $3,000"

Gold and Silver Bull Market - 1970s vs. Today - Mike Maloney

The problem with Libertarians is that they don't know anything, except how to argue tautologies, "The Free Market is free and freedom is Liberty and so Free Markets are Libertarian...." LOL! Libertarian Pie In The Sky Mumbo Jumbo Utopianism.

"We’re struggling to get the physical out of these guys (producers) because they have so many people banging on their door, saying, ‘Sell it to us direct.’ What these buyers are doing is essentially taking gold out of the system, which means the bullion banks can’t leverage that gold anymore. So this is a huge, dynamic shift that wasn’t there before... You have to keep in mind this recent plunge was orchestrated with borrowed gold and that borrowed gold is now gone. That’s why gold can’t go much lower. Any dips in price will be aggressively purchased. As I said earlier, right now we are witnessing a historic bottom.”
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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Well, it looks like I missed my chance to pickup $1400 gold. LOL!!!

Gold Takes Out 200DMA...The Other WaySubmitted by Tyler Durden on 12/20/2011 19:46 -0500

"Gold again proves it is not the safe haven many had hoped for, breaking the 200-day moving average, the first time since 2009 and signaling that prices may drop to US$1400/ounce." So begins a post by a "market strategist" from Roubini Global Economics as of less than a week ago. Well, since as the chart below shows gold just took out the 200-DMA, this time in the opposite direction upside, having proven the recent drop was nothing but a buying opportunity as was suggested by the non-Ph.D. community, we assume that using the author's logic, gold has proven that it is in fact a safe haven, and that since it is not going to $1400 it can only go to infinity.... Or is that us taking liberties with our lack of an economics Ph.D. a little too far?

Here is another live metals technical chart at Kitco.com

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

No kidding?

London Trader - There are Tremendous Silver Shortages

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

So where is this Libertarian Free Market...Oh, in Libertarian Heaven because "The Free Market is free, and freedom is Liberty so Free Markets are Libertarian which means Libertarians are for the free markets which is the same as freedom...”

So where the fuck is Obama "The Black Judas" on this blatant fraud in the markets? The Black Wall Street Ad Man has been in office for years!!!

Sprott's Call for Silver Producers to Hold Back Metal Strikes Chord

Source: JT Long of The Gold Report (12/21/11)

On November 30, Eric Sprott, chairman of Sprott Inc. and one of the largest holders of physical silver and silver equities globally, issued a call to action to 17 of the world's largest silver producers to limit the sale of the metal until prices increase. In this Gold Report exclusive, we asked the activist investor and insiders what impact such a declaration could make in one of the most volatile subsets of the resource sector.

COMPANIES MENTIONED: BHP BILLITON LTD. - ENDEAVOUR SILVER CORP. - PAN AMERICAN SILVER CORP.

In an open letter to silver producers at the end of November, Sprott Inc. Chairman Eric Sprott cited an overleveraged banking system, weakening dollar and increasing demand as reasons to hold profits in silver rather than selling all production and putting the proceeds in the bank. "Given the current environment, we see much greater risk holding cash in a bank than we do in holding precious metals," Sprott said.

Interviewed mid-December Sprott, who is a major investor in physical and silver equities, explained why he wrote his letter. "I have always liked silver because I look at the physical supply and demand metrics and they scream that silver should be higher. But the price is being kept down by paper silver traders who are abusing the market."

As proof, Sprott pointed to the day last April when silver hit $50 an ounce (oz) and then immediately dropped $6/oz in 13 minutes when almost none of the markets were open. "A billion ounces of paper silver traded that day. The mining industry only produces about 700 million ounces (Moz) a year. The major financial institutions, which had been shorting silver for a long time, refused to let silver break $50/oz so they manipulated the market to keep a lid on it," Sprott charged....

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

This bit of ancient history is more up to date than today's news....

“To an observer, Germany in the mid-Thirties seemed like one vast beehive. The wheels of industry were humming and everyone was as busy as a bee. For the first year Nazi economic policies, which were largely determined by Dr. Schacht-for Hitler was bored with economics, of which he had an almost total ignorance-were devoted largely to putting the unemployed back to work by means of greatly expanded public works and the stimulation of private enterprise. (Rise and Fall of The Third Reich, Simon and Schuster 1960, William L. Shirer, pp. 259) “

“Schacht explained to Hitler that since "armament had to be camouflaged completely until March 16, 1935 [when Hitler announced conscription for an army of thirty-six divisions], it was necessary to use the printing press" to finance the first stages….

All of Schacht's admitted wizardry in finance was put to work to pay for getting the Third Reich ready for war. Printing banknotes was merely one of his devices. He manipulated the currency with such legerdemain that at one time it was estimated by foreign economists to have 237 different values. He negotiated amazingly profitable (for Germany) barter deals with dozens of countries and to the astonishment of orthodox economists successfully demonstrated that the more you owed a country the more business you did with it. His creation of credit in a country that had little liquid capital and almost no financial reserves was the work of genius, or-as some said-of a master manipulator. His invention of the so-called "Mefo" bills was a good example. These were simply bills created by the Reichsbank and guaranteed by the State and used to pay armament manufacturers. The bills were accepted by all German banks and ultimately discounted by the Reichsbank. Since they appeared neither in the published statements:of the national bank nor in the government's budget they helped maintain secrecy as to the extent of Germany's rearmament. From 1935 to 1938 they were used exclusively to finance rearmament and amounted to a total of twelve billion marks.In explaining them once to Hitler, Count Schwerin von Krosigk, the harassed Minister of Finance, remarked that they were merely a way of "printing money. (Rise and Fall of The Third Reich, Simon and Schuster 1960, William L. Shirer, pp. 260) “

" Buried under mountains of red tape, directed by the State as to what they could produce, how much and at what price, burdened by increasing taxation and milked by steep and never ending "special contributions" to the party, the businessmen, who had welcomed Hitler's regime so enthusiastically because they expected it to destroyorganized labor and allow an entrepreneur to practice untrammeled free enterprise, became greatly disillusioned. One of them was Fritz Thyssen, one of the earliest and biggest contributors to the party. Fleeing Germany at the outbreak of the war, he recognized that the "Nazi regime has ruined German industry." And to all he met abroad he proclaimed, "What a fool [Dummkopf] I was!"

In the beginning, however, the businessmen fooled themselves into believing that Nazi rule was the answer to all their prayers. To be sure, the "inalterable" party program had sounded ominous to them with its promises of nationalization of trusts, profit sharing in the wholesale trade, "communalization of department stores and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders" (as Point 16 read), land reform and the abolition of interest on mortgages. But the men of industry and finance soon learned that Hitler had not the slightest intention of honoring a single economic plank in the party program-the radical promises had been thrown in merely to attract votes. For the first few months in 1933, a few party radicals tried to get control of the business associations, take over the department stores and institute a corporate state on lines which Mussolini was attempting to establish. But they were quickly thrown out by Hitler and replaced by conservative businessmen. (Rise and Fall of The Third Reich, Simon and Schuster 1960, William L. Shirer, pp. 261) “

“Earlier, the Law Regulating National Labor of January 20, 1934, known as the "Charter of Labor," had put the worker in his place and raised the employer to his old position of absolute master-subject, of course, to interference by the all-powerful State. The employer became the "leader of the enterprise," the employees the "following," or Gefolgschaft. Paragraph Two of the law set down that "the leader of the enterprise makes the decisions for the employees and laborers in all matters concerning the enterprise." And just as in ancient times the lord was supposed to be responsible for the welfare of his subjects so, under the Nazi law, was the employer made "responsible for the well-being of the employees and laborers." In return, the law said, "the employees and laborers owe him faithfulness"-that is, they were to work hard and long, and no back talk or grumbling, even about wages.

Wages were set by so-called labor trustees, appointed by the Labor Front. In practice, they set the rates according to the wishes of the employer-there was no provision for the workers even to be consulted in such matters-though after 1936, when help became scarce in the armament industries and some employers attempted to raise wages in order to attract men, wage scales were held down by orders of the State. Hitler was quite frank about keeping wages low. "It has been the iron principle of the National Socialist leadership," he declared early in the regime, "not to permit any rise in the hourly wage rates but to raise income solely by an increase in performance.' In a country where most wages were based at least partly on piecework, this meant that a worker could hope to earn more only by a speed-up and by longer hours. (Rise and Fall of The Third Reich, Simon and Schuster 1960, William L. Shirer, pp. 263) “

“Compared to the United States, and after allowances were made for the difference in the cost of living and in social services, wages in Germany had always been low. Under the Nazis they were slightly lower than before. According to the Reich Statistical Office, they declined for skilled workers from 20.4 cents an hour in 1932, at the height of the depression, to 19.5 cents during the middle of 1936. Wage scales for unskilled labor fell from 16.1 cents to 13 cents an hour. At the party congress in Nuremberg in 1936 Dr. Ley stated that the average earnings of full-time workers in the Labor Front amounted to $6.95 a week. The Reich Statistical Office put the figure for all German workers at $6.29. Although millions more had jobs, the share of all German workers in the national income fell from 56.9 per cent in the depression year of 1932 to 53.6 per cent in the boom year of 1938. At the same time income from capital and business rose from 17.4 per cent of the national income to 26.6 per cent. It is true that because of much greater employment the total income from wages and salaries grew from twenty-five billion marks to forty-two billions, an increase of 66 per cent. But income from capital and business rose much more steeply-by 146 per cent. All the propagandists in the Third Reich from Hitler on down were accustomed to rant in their public speeches against the bourgeois and the capitalist and proclaim their solidarity with the worker. But a sober study of the official statistics, which perhaps few Germans bothered to make, revealed that the much maligned capitalists, not the workers, benefited most from Nazi policies.

Finally, the take-home pay of the German worker shrank. Besides stiff income taxes, compulsory contributions to sickness, unemployment and disability insurance, and Labor Front dues, the manual worker-like everyone else in Nazi Germany-was constantly pressured to make increasingly large gifts to an assortment of Nazi charities, the chief of which was Winterhilfe (Winter Relief). Many a workman lost his job because he failed to contribute to Winterhilfe or because his contribution was deemed too small. Such failure was termed by one labor court, which upheld the dismissal of an employee without notice, "conduct hostile to the community of the people... to be most strongly condemned." In the mid-Thirties it was estimated that taxes and contributions took from 15 to 35 per cent of a worker's gross wage. Such a cut out of $6.95 a week did not leave a great deal for rent and food and clothing and recreation.(Rise and Fall of The Third Reich, Simon and Schuster 1960, William L. Shirer, pp. 264) “

“After June 1935 the state employment offices were given exclusive control of employment; they determined who could be hired for what and where. The "workbook" was introduced in February 1935, and eventually no worker could be hired unless he possessed one. In it was kept a record of his skills and employment. The workbook not only provided the State and the employer with up-to-date data on every single employee in the nation but was used to tie a worker to his bench. If he desired to leave for other employment his employer could retain his workbook, which meant that he could not legally be employed elsewhere. Finally, on June 22, 1938, a special decree issued by the Office of the Four-Year Plan instituted labor conscription. It obliged every German to work where the State assigned him. Workers who absented themselves from their jobs without a very good excuse were subject to fine and imprisonment. There was, it is obvious, another side to this coin. A worker thus conscripted could not be fired by his employer without the consent of the government employment office. He had job security, something he had rarely known during the Republic.

Tied down by so many controls at wages little above the subsistence level, the German workers, like the Roman proletariat, were provided with circuses by their rulers to divert attention from their miserable state. "We had to divert the attention of the masses from material to moral values," Dr. Ley once explained. "It is more important to feed the souls of men than their stomachs."

So he came up with an organization called Kraft durch Freude ("Strength through Joy"). This provided what can only be called regimented leisure. In a twentieth-century totalitarian dictatorship, as perhaps with older ones, it is deemed necessary to control not only the working hours but the leisure hours of the individual. This was what "Strength through Joy" did. In pre-Nazi days Germany had tens of thousands of clubs devoted to everything from chess and soccer to bird watching. Under the Nazis no organized social, sport or recreational group was allowed to function except under the control and direction of Kraft durch Freude. (Rise and Fall of The Third Reich, Simon and Schuster 1960, William L. Shirer, pp. 265) “

Antifascist's picture
Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Germany also controlled what consumer items were available within Germany. Most were earmarked for export..in exchange for armaments materials. They weren't available within Germany itself.

A better book on the German economic system is probably the one written by the economic historian Adam Tooze. - "Wages of Destruction - The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy".

Functioning in a world on the gold standard...without any gold. itself... was a tremendous economic feat..Unfortunately, Hitler's economic team was brilliant though he himself was a complete dunce in that regard...not much different than our own "leaders".

Economic considerations forced Germany into war 5 years before it was planned. The nation was heading for an economic collapse unless it obtained the resources of its neighbors. Armaments depleted the economy. Sound familiar?

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Jim Sinclair - The Gold Panic & What to Expect in 2012

“The amount of discontent and bearishness among people who know better is enormous. It’s moved from bearishness to some form of anger.

... People are beginning to literally crack, defined as shifting their total focus to their emotions and away from their intellect. I’ve seen emotionalism in areas where it doesn’t belong, where it’s never existed before. I’m in total shock.

... “We’re in the most manipulated markets. We’re in the most fraudulent markets in history. There has never been a time when you can have assets disappear from people and modest inquiries take place of the leaders of that company.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Oligarch's Guide To Hitler's Rise To Power

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

How is the 'value of gold' to relate to the 'value of each worker', Antifascist? Where is 'the rubber to hit the road' of 'gold's value' up against 'each laborer's value'? Is whoever (or whatever) that values such gold going to hand out payments to such laborers in gold? Or, are they more likely to hoard it for themselves to have its 'scarcity' maintain its value? In line with your above connection Tarpley's connection to oligarchs and nazism (fascism), you have yet to note how your 'myth of gold's value' translates in the 'worth of labor's value' in the market....

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Kerry
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

You're a Libertarian....figure it out.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Another non-answer from the great philosopher 'against fascism', 'Anti-fascist'? You have no way to correlate the 'value of gold' up against the 'value of labor' in the market, do you, 'Anti-fascist'? And, as such, you aren't as really 'anti-fascist' as you claim.....despite how 'sophisticated' your posturing is...and how 'simple' you claim my position is....(you like all those 'remarks'?).....you can't even admit how hypocritical you are in claiming to be 'Anti-fascist' but so willing to play the fascist game of centralizing authority and power, anyway.....and your 'value of gold' apart from the 'value of labor' in the market is the very case in point that shows that.....

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Kerry
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Here's a "special tip" I heard and want to share it "only" with "you": keep your "money" in the "bank," and buy some "stock." Keep it on the QT.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

My 'money' flows out of banks as fast as it goes in, Antifascist. Maybe you have forgotten that I have several children--even some grown and with their own children and some in college--that I am helping to support. Plus, I am paying much more for taxes than I used to make 30 years ago....I do have a 'six figure income'--but, like so many in this economy now, I am always one paycheck away from bankruptcy....'stupid' to you, I am sure....but, it appears that your gold makes you smug and content....that's OK, Antifascist--I just realize the hypocrisy in you to claim 'anti-fascism', otherwise....

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Kerry
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Okay, you sound like you need the money. I'm not working. Glad you have a job.

Paul Brodsky - Gold Could See Five Digits in 2012

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

PETER SCHIFF EXPLAINS THE FIRST BEATITUDE

POSTED BY ANN BARNHARDT - DECEMBER 22, AD 2011 9:35 PM MST

I’m a huge fan of punctuation. Especially properly-utilized apostrophes. But I’m also a fan of ellipses and the humble comma.

(“Let’s eat Grandma!” or, “Let’s eat, Grandma!” PUNCTUATION. SAVES. LIVES.)

What the heck is wrong with this board? It inserts spaces, fonts take over and can't be removed. It consumes time to just make a simple post. Is it by incompetence or by design? Yeah, I reported itl

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

And yet another reason that I like and respect these precious metals experts: not only are they knowledgeable and clear in their explanations, but they are balanced human beings that don't just sit around looking at their portfolios. Listen to metals expert Pierre Lassonde: Chairman of Franco-Nevada in his interview on King World News (Dec. 24, 2011 at 18 minutes, 16 seconds). This gives me confidence investing in gold and silver. I should of invested years ago.

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Antifascist
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Do remember that in a severe crises, it's the farmers who end up with a lot of the gold. Gold simply isn't very nutritious.

Plant a garden. Bury your gold in it. At night.

"Only when you have cut down the last tree, eaten the last fish, and poisoned the last stream will you understand that you can't eat your money" - Cree Prophesy.

They could just as well have said, "only when global warming and resource collapse has its full impact, will you understand that you can't eat your money".

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Is It Too Late To Buy Gold and Silver? - Mike Maloney & The Elevation Group

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

edit

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

The MF Global incident should give everyone pause. The trustee is saying that MF Global customers will only get $.72 for every $1 they had invested while JP Morgan Chase is moving to the front of the line of creditors. Jamie Dimon is being given first dibs on MF Global assets and If that's the case, can you really trust your money in the COMEX (or anywhere else for that matter) since Jamie Dimon or Lloyd Blankfein can claim your assets right from under you? Who really owns the assets in your brokerage account? We all thought we did but that may not be the case in reality.

I do believe that gold and silver are good bets going forward but only if you can get actual gold or silver bars, not a slip of paper or some theoretical metal in a warehouse or brokerage somewhere. I have heard some people are going straight to the mining companies and cutting out the corrupt middlemen. Now THAT sounds like a good idea.

gwiech
Joined:
Feb. 3, 2011 4:02 pm

If you can't get physical delivery of gold or silver...DON'T BUY IT!

However, if you'd like to send me $1,700-$1,800 for some gold, I'll be glad to issue you a receipt.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease".

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
However, if you'd like to send me $1,700-$1,800 for some gold, I'll be glad to issue you a receipt.

LOL!!! and fifty people responded.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

As I understand it, the amount of gold promised is roughly 100 X the amount of actual gold available so many people are doing exactly that. Even the Allocated trades where you get a serial number for each bar you buy are tainted by fraud in that, I have heard, the serial numbers are being reused many times over.

gwiech
Joined:
Feb. 3, 2011 4:02 pm

Currently Chatting

GOP Blocks Equal Pay...again.

Just in time for election season, Senate Republicans blocked legislation aimed at closing the gender pay gap. For the third time since 2012, Republicans refused to allow debate on the Paycheck Fairness Act, and reminded women that the GOP doesn't believe in equal pay for equal work.

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