Keystone XL bringing crude to refine and export to Asia

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leftist-wright
leftist-wright's picture

One of the reasons I love this show is that Thom documents his statements, however, I don't have the documentation and I would like it on this topic because my right wing relatives from Wharton School, no slouches at debate, don't believe me on this and keep referring me to blogs that say either US or China will get this oil.  I remind them that the export will be refined oil, giving us only the economic use of the oil to refine, but they then say that refined oil can be used by whoever buys it in the US, or as export.  Please help me with this.  Too many people think if we don't get this toxic sludge China will, thereby moving leaps and bounds ahead of us.

 

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Dr. Econ
Dr. Econ's picture
Perhaps the idea is that

Perhaps the idea is that China is a big growth in demand for oil, while ours has been holding steady.

Thus, any increase in oil production would go to China.

I think the main point is that such a small quantity on the world market will not effect the price.

anonymous green
China has all the oil and

China has all the oil and natural gas it needs, so does America, so does Canada.

Given that the fossil fool theory is an antiquated lie, and that hydrocarbons are ubiquitous and abundant, why not make the debate about whether all the gas and oil wells we list as 'dried up', really are dry?

Since of course they are not, and we could supply all our energy needs from our own resources, the issue is really whether our laws should allow oil corporations the freedom to lie to us and allow science to lie for them so that they can continue to claim more real estate, dig more wells, and build more pipelines, and create more environmental destruction.

 

 

 

Dr. Econ
Dr. Econ's picture
I think those statements can

I think those statements can be easily disproven given the price of oil. Maybe I will check your other post.

anonymous green
What does the price of oil

What does the price of oil have to do with my comments?

The price of oil is dictated by the politicians who allow our nation's resources to be owned by the wealthy, and allow us to be chained to their unsatisfiable greed.

Dr. Econ
Dr. Econ's picture
"China has all the oil and

"China has all the oil and natural gas it needs" - if we had "all we need", then the demand would fall and the price would drop.Instead, oil is in short supply and highly demanded - thus the price is high.

And, if you knew of a way to get cheaper oil, you could sell a lot of it, and make a profit, so it make sense to invest in such a venture.

DRC
DRC's picture
The point about Keystone is

The point about Keystone is that the tarsand crap could be refined near the source far more safely than pumping it across America.  The pipeline will allow the Canadian company to get its oil to the international market, meaning that it will not help American supply and demand pricing, and in fact will reduce the supply because it can go international.  Prices rise for Americans.  We also get the externalities and ecological degradation.  Even if it fits the Canadian business plan, it does not serve American interests in general.  It might give a few people a few jobs for awhile, but not as much as any alternative plan to get this oil.

On the other hand, sequestered hydrocarbons do increase the CO2 in the atmosphere and does not produce a balanced cleansing cycle.  The measure goes up.

I agree that we are run by a corporate elite, but that is why we are not the leader in renewable and sustainable energy.  There is no good reason to stay on the Petrometh any longer than we have to.

anonymous green
Methane is not a

Methane is not a 'sequestered' hydrocarbon.

It's out-gassing into our atmosphere from every pore on the planet and oxidizing into CO2.

DRC
DRC's picture
That which occurs in the

That which occurs in the natural cycle above the ground goes right into the air, but when it is buried and released much later, it adds to the above ground total.  Ancient sunlight and all that.

anonymous green
Methane is not million year

Methane is not million year old shrimp gumbo.

It's formed by chemical reactions in the core the planet, just like everywhere else in the known Universe.

Earthquakes are the result of the movement of methane from below ground into the atmosphere.

Look at the last 4,000 years of earthquake and volcanic activity.

We exist in a time of geologic crisis, which began its upward curve about 350 years ago.

This geologic crisis is what is affecting the climate.

Methane is the fuel that can help us survive, and it is 'burning itself, regardless, or irregardless as the Idiot Bush would have said.

Dr. Econ
Dr. Econ's picture
Wikki says natural gas is

Wikki says natural gas is decaying life, not chemically produced from the core.

anonymous green
Wikki is dead end wrong. Read

Wikki is dead end wrong.

Read "The Deep Hot Biosphere", and think about how stupid we were for ever believing that the sun revolved around the earth.

Then, consider the cosmic humor that Ahnold, despite portraying Quaid and Hauser in Total Recall, morphed through Philip Dick's posthumous imagination into Governor Cohagen, piping natural gas from Colorado and Texas into California while our natural gas fields in california remained listed as 'dried up'.

We are living a lie, and paying for something that should be as cheap as sand, methane, and being force-fed coal and oil and tar-sands that are shipped and hauled and piped around in circles, making these companies one of their own biggest customers.

Get it? It's a laugh all the way to the bank joke on you.

If every natural gas well in America had a generator on it, matched to the internal refilling of the well, we'd never need coal, nuclear, or oil based energy.  

Keeku
Keeku's picture
From reading the Koch

From reading the Koch Industries website, I suspect the Koch brothers are vested interest in the Keystone Pipeline.

Koch Pipeline Company, L.P. and its affiliates own or operate about 4,000 miles of pipelines that transport crude oil, refined petroleum products, natural gas liquids and chemicals.

Koch Alaska Pipeline Company, LLC owns an approximate 3 percent interest in the Trans Alaska Pipeline System. Another Koch company has a 28 percent interest in Colonial Pipeline Company, owner and operator of the world’s largest-volume refined products pipeline.

Flint Hills Resources LLC, through its subsidiaries, operate refineries in Alaska (North Pole), Minnesota (Rosemount) and Texas (Corpus Christi), with a combined crude oil processing capacity of more than 800,000 barrels per day. The petrochemical business includes production facilities in Illinois, Michigan and Texas. These plants produce aromatics, olefins, polymers and intermediate chemicals.  In addition, various other subsidiaries operate ethanol plants in Iowa, produce and market asphalt in the Midwest, own an interest in a base oil facility in Louisiana, and have made equity investments in bioenergy companies.

"Koch, subsidiaries to hire 300 people in Wichita"

  • The Wichita Eagle
  • Published Thursday, Dec. 15, 2011, at 6 a.m.

 
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2011/12/15/2141111/koch-subsidiaries-to-hire-300.html#storylink=cpy

http://www.kansas.com/2011/12/15/2141111/koch-subsidiaries-to-hire-300.html

"That’s according to Koch officials, who said this week that most of the jobs are professional — information technology, accounting and analysis, and engineering — and are new positions, not vacant ones."

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2011/12/15/2141111/koch-subsidiaries-to-hire-300.html#storylink=cpy

..."Other examples of commercial growth are Koch Fertilizer, which Morris said has “enhanced” its production internationally, and Koch Pipeline, which has been expanding its transportation capabilities."...

"He’s not worried about the company being able to fill those 300-plus positions in Wichita – it’s looking to fill 2,500 nationally – but filling them doesn’t happen overnight."

 Hmm.. isn't Wichita lierally right next to the planned path of the Keystone Pipeline ? ..but I'm confused.. from Harry E. Bennett's letter it sounds like they were already building it in 2010? See link below:

http://andrewottoson.com/2010/09/kansan-seeking-proof-of-keystone-pipeli...

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2011/12/15/2141111/koch-subsidiaries-to-hire-300.html#storylink=cpy
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2011/12/15/2141111/koch-subsidiaries-"to-hire-300.html#storylink=cpy"
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2011/12/15/2141111/koch-subsidiaries-to-hire-300.html#storylink=cpy

anonymous green
And every one of us who buys

And every one of us who buys the oil, the gasoline, and the other by-products of this filthy industry works for the Kochs as well.

We need a few red-white-and-blue signs that say: FREE GAS TODAY

Occupy the wealthy's money, if they won't give it away fairly.