Where are the "jobs that Americans won't do?"

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Back in the day I took any crappy job that I could get. I don't think that things have changed that much. When did these jobs become "jobs that Americans won't do"? It happened soon as the illegals moved in. Not before. Pretty much every region could find enough workers to wash dishes, do landscaping and clean houses. My nephew is working his way through college by doing landscaping. There are very few illegals in his area. But the job still gets done. People who can't afford to hire Americans either don't landscape or do it themselves. The print shops that I visited in Jersey, Minnesota and California were loaded with illegals. The ones in other states were not. If one company cheats and hires illegals the others must follow in order to compete. You can't survive paying a living wage with health care, over time, sick days and benefits while your competition hires people who will work a 12 shift with no breaks and no O.T. You are either forced to cheat the system yourself or to go out of business. It is all driven by corporate greed. When the illegals showed up, thats when we got the "jobs that Americans won't do." We did them before they got here.

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rigel1
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I'd say that those jobs would have been in what are now the rotting tomato fields of Alabama

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mdhess
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Apr. 9, 2010 11:43 pm

You're right about jobs getting done with or without immigrants but lets put the blame where it belongs - with employers who want to pay less than what jobs are worth. One of my own pet peeves is the fact that many building contractors began gaining a competetive edge by hiring undocumented workers as journeyman carpenters and paying a small fraction of what the job is worth. Construction jobs used to be good, middle class jobs that supported families but then contractors began using migrant labor on the sly. For instance, after hurricane Katrina some big name (and infamous) contractors actually brought trailers in that were nothing but rolling bunkhouses and used undocumented workers to fulfill government contracts. That's outrageous!

If immigration policy targeted the impetus for illegal immigration - sleezy employers - with severe sanctions then the problem would eventually resolve itself and we could go back to having mostly an agricultural labor force that operates legally. We wouldn't be incentivising illegal entry and we wouldn't be keeping the immigrants who are here in a state of perpetual anxiety. But some peoplewant things both ways; they want to pay rock bottom prices for goods and services but aren't toleratant of the very people who will work for a low enough wage to make those prices possible. My conclusion is that conservatives like it the way it is so that it makes exploitation that much easier.

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mdhess
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Quote mdhess:

You're right about jobs getting done with or without immigrants but lets put the blame where it belongs - with employers who want to pay less than what jobs are worth.

You are so spot on. I don't blame anyone who lives in one of those third world hell holes for trying to find a better life. But we cannot become the lifeboat for all of the world. We need to create 100,000 jobs per month simply to keep up with population growth. We need less people not more.

Back to your point. We need to get serious with the greedy employers who cheat the system. Enough is enough.

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rigel1
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You must not have gotten the memo: the expression is now "jobs Americans AREN'T doing." That goes back... almost six years.

http://www.newshounds.us/2006/05/18/bush_changes_it_from_jobs_americans_wont_do_to_jobs_americans_arent_doing.php

chilidog
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

rigel, I appreciate that you agree that the problem stems from greedy employers wanting to take advantage of a cheap labor pool but I have to reiterate that all of the harsh rhetoric directed toward undocumented immigrants serves to keep that population in a state of high anxiety which makes them all the more easily exploitable. What I'm saying is that I believe that the hysteria around immigration is intentionally being hyped by some so as to make the undocumented work force that much more easily exploitable. Most of the hysteria comes from those who have been worked into a frenzy by ideologues or by opportunisist who profit from fomenting hate (you know of whom I speak) but it also works to the advantage of those who profit from the exploitation of undocumented workers. With so much attention on them, undocumented immigrants don't dare to complain about whatever conditions they are subjected to and they become ever more willing to work for less and less money. The hysteria around immigration has created a modern day captive work force. It may not be as harsh, cruel and inhumane as the original slave work force but it too is a labor force that is left with no legal redress, albeit to a much less severe extent, like the original American Slaves were. So capitalism has fostered yet another grotesque manifestation, within the larger work force, just as it always does.

I don't believe conservatives really want to solve the immigration problem. I think they just want to piss and moan about it and make a lot of noise so that, while they pretend to be the responsible ones who are concerned about this issue, they actually profit from the status quo in several ways: there is a cheap captive labor force available to them, the availability of an easily exploitable labor force drives down the overall wage scale and... they can exploit the issue politically.

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mdhess
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Apr. 9, 2010 11:43 pm

rigel, on this point and on education, you need to get away from your evil associates on the Right and get with those of us who want to do something to solve the problems.

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Quote DRC:

rigel, on this point and on education, you need to get away from your evil associates on the Right and get with those of us who want to do something to solve the problems.

I sorta refrain from offering you personal advice even though you could clearly use it. You may want to consider extending the same courtesy towards me.

Fair enough?

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rigel1
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Quote chilidog:

You must not have gotten the memo: the expression is now "jobs Americans AREN'T doing." That goes back... almost six years.

http://www.newshounds.us/2006/05/18/bush_changes_it_from_jobs_americans_wont_do_to_jobs_americans_arent_doing.php

Tough break. If a company must cheat the system to survive then maybe it should fail. If you cannot figure out a way to make your company work while abiding by US labor laws, then sorry about your luck. You don't get to cheat and under cut companies who are playing by the rules.

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rigel1
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Recently I was in Wyoming in the office of a supplier to the oil fields. He was complaining that he could not get any good help. Yes, you have to live in Wyoming to get there jobs and it is very cold there, but those jobs will pay very well. I'll bet the same situation is true in North Dakota.

Sometimes you have to move to where the jobs are and do something you don't really want to do. Just about everybody has had that experience once in their life.

So where are the jobs that Americans don't want to do? Some of them are in North Dakota and Wyoming.

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mauiman58
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Quote mauiman58:

Recently I was in Wyoming in the office of a supplier to the oil fields. He was complaining that he could not get any good help. Yes, you have to live in Wyoming to get there jobs and it is very cold there, but those jobs will pay very well. I'll bet the same situation is true in North Dakota.

Sometimes you have to move to where the jobs are and do something you don't really want to do. Just about everybody has had that experience once in their life.

So where are the jobs that Americans don't want to do? Some of them are in North Dakota and Wyoming.

Too bad. You don't get to cheat because cannot attract and keep workers. Too bad, so sad. Get a better business plan. Obey the rules, or fail.

Make a better offer and people will come.

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rigel1
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Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am

In regards to this comment: "If you cannot figure out a way to make your company work while abiding by US labor laws, then sorry about your luck. You don't get to cheat and under cut companies who are playing by the rules."

The truth of it is, it doesn't work like this. Companies DO get to cheat and under cut other companies who are playing by the rules. We are in the commercial janitorial business and operate a small company with 22 employees. There are so many companies that cheat the system by hiring undocumented workers and they get away with it. There is only so much you can do, when you follow the rules, to remain competitive before you are forced to minimize your profit so much that you go out of business. The grocery stores and office buildings in our area that hire out janitorial services don't care if the night workers have documents or not. They don't care if they are being paid a fair wage. They care about their bottom line. Out of frustration we have called INS and ever other government agency we could think of, even our congressman. Do you think they care? No. The truth of it is this: there is nothing you can do about it. Those companies that are "cheating the system to survive" are the ones that are NOT failing. The ones that are trying to "play by the rules" are the ones that are failing. So if any of you have any suggestions, I would love to hear them.

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mwarning
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Feb. 8, 2012 9:43 am
Quote mwarning:

. There are so many companies that cheat the system by hiring undocumented workers and they get away with it. There is only so much you can do,any suggestions, I would love to hear them.

Okay. Here is a suggestion. E-verify. It's not perfect but its pretty doggone reliable. Make it the law of the land and it will free up millions of jobs for Americans and force companies to pay a legal, living wage.

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rigel1
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Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am

rigel, only Progressives have been calling down the employers. The Chamber of Commerce and the Right have totally failed to address illegal employers and have demonized illegal immigrants as if they were denying hard working Americans real job opportunities. I never blame the slaves for slavery, but the racist Right loves to make out like people trying to escape IMeffed Mexico are non-humans.

The only thing the Right is doing to stop illegal immigration is to turn America into a Third World nation where there are no jobs to attract them here. Please stop the misdirected taunts and focus on who is doing the damage.

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Quote DRC:

rigel, only Progressives have been calling down the employers. The Chamber of Commerce and the Right have totally failed to address illegal employers and have demonized illegal immigrants as if they were denying hard working Americans real job opportunities. I never blame the slaves for slavery, but the racist Right loves to make out like people trying to escape IMeffed Mexico are non-humans.

The only thing the Right is doing to stop illegal immigration is to turn America into a Third World nation where there are no jobs to attract them here. Please stop the misdirected taunts and focus on who is doing the damage.

I do not disagree with what you said. Progressives should be calling out employers. The righties need to follow your lead on this. But you have grossly mis read me. First of all. I don't taunt. It's not the way that I operate. Secondly. For me, finding blame is not nearly as important as finding solutions. That is why I support E-verify. It would make it much more difficult for companies to cheat.

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rigel1
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Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am

OK, but the taunted may disagree with how you come across. Claiming to be fair and balanced is not the same as being so. As I said elsewhere, when you make a civil and correct post, I applaud it. When you don't or miss your stated goals for decency, I take you on. How we are perceived is not always what we intend. It is easy to know what I meant to say, but much harder to hear how others hear me. I would appreciate more focus on the people in power and less parroting of Rightwing talking points, as you did on 9/11 and terrorism. I thought that was eggregious.

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DRC
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

The owners could have teams harvesting within hours if he wanted to, One phone call to /which_side_are_you_on/ SEIU.

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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Reigle1 I agree with what I think is the spirit of your post, namely that employers want the cheapest and most pliant workers they can. You cannot blame them for that. That is one of the ways that they will succeed against their competitors.

The question is how do we solve this problem? I think that we need to hold the employers responsible if they hire undocumented workers. You cannot really fault the illegal workers them selves, after all they just want to feed their families. If they could not get jobs here, they would not be here.

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olenzekm
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Oct. 26, 2010 11:01 am

Just curious, what causes you to assume that there is cheating going on here? Is that beause this is the oil business, therefore anyone in that busines is cheating? That's a mighty big assumption don't you think? Or do you just assume that anyone in a business that is making money is cheating?

Most businesses do not cheat. The majority do play by the rules, and they do not get the headlines.

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mauiman58
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Jan. 6, 2012 6:45 pm

And enough businesses don't play by the rules that there are an estimated 10 million illegals in the country. Contrary to right-wing talking points, they aren't earning their living by being in social safety net programs. They work. Somebody is hiring them. Our illegal immigrant problem is an illegal employment problem conducted by businesses..

States require proof of citizenship to obtain safety net benefits.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease",.

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Polycarp, the jobs I am refering to are skilled jobs. Best I can tell the company I was dealing with does not hire illegals. It may surprise you, but I agree wholehartedly that businesses should play by the rules. I think you will find the bigger the company, the less likely they are to hire illegals. I have always had to produce a passport for any new job I have taken. The company I am reffering to here is a multi-billion dollar corporation who would be foolish to do anything less than that.

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mauiman58
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Quote mauiman58:

I think you will find the bigger the company, the less likely they are to hire illegals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyson_Foods#Employment_of_undocumented_immi...

chilidog
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Chilidog, 2 points:

I repeat, I totally agree with you that anyone who hires illegals should have the full weight of the law thrown at them. No toleration for that.

I'll still stand behind my statement that the larger the company, the less likely they are to have illegals. Not that there aren't exceptions to that, like Tyson foods.

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mauiman58
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Jan. 6, 2012 6:45 pm

You are going to have to do it on the state levels cuz the Federal level is corrupted by Globalists who want to turn America into a 3rd world hell hole.

Just like Arizona is doing.

The states is where Americans have to make their stands.

Endgame

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261&q=Endgame+&ei=1t4QSPaoB5q2rAKJzaywBA

The immigrints are being used as pawns in the Globalist grand scheme of things.

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antikakistocrat
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Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm

Check out this article on the oil industry:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-rig-workers-nearly-100-140600665.html

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