Will the Economy Become A Tool For Us—Or Will We Be Tools For the Economy?

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Karolina
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Karolina wrote:
Update: I am bringing back this "thread from the dead" for a moment, because I think that we are getting close to possibly having "something big" happen globally very soon, which might tip the see-saw one way or the other.

Since we have been visited by many people who seem to want to distract us from our path of understanding truth that might lead to a world that is abundant and just for all people, I thought it might be a good point to restart asking the most important question on the globe right now:  

Will the economy be a tool for us — or will we be tools for the economy?

 

The only truly damaging division in the human species is: 

1)  Those who celebrate the oligarchical system of government and economy, a system where the lives of all humans who are not the oligarchs is based on the violent lives of less evolved, less complex species on earth, i.e. all species without self-awareness or extended imagination. This system has been promoting for most of humanity the austere and burdensome ideas: health as not a human right but in fact a "survival of the fittest," "alpha-animals dominating the herd by force," "hierarchy positions in the herd," and "the cruelty aspects of nature".

                                                      vs.

2)  Those comfortable when their imagination is inspired in the more human system of government and economy, which is based on love, as binding security and compassion—and also creativity, as freedom to develop ideas which help the evolvement, safety, and prosperity of the human species and its environment, including but certainly not limited to any form of classical art or personal art.

This system, democracy, developed by great minds and philosophies throughout history, has in the United States since 1776 and until recently, been promoting the provision of healthy lives for all of it's citizens, as well as promoting the continuing creative spiritual evolution, progress and prosperity for the entire human species and everything that it touches. 

 

Divisions such as  liberals vs. conservatives,  democrats vs. republicans, rich vs. poor,  aristocrats vs. riff-raff,  men vs. women,  blacks vs. whitesgays vs. heterosexuals,  religions vs. religions,  countries vs. countries,  nations vs. nations,  alliances vs. alliances,  etc., are meaningless as such, and only dangerous when embraced and developed for the agenda of an oligarchy or by those who celebrate the oligarchical system.  

Often the agenda is just to maintain divisions in the livestock (i.e. people), so that the group stays divided & conquered. Sometimes it is so that unthinking lemmings will keep overly aware geniuses from throwing those oligarchs and their evil minions into the padded high security insane asylum cells where they belong.

But there are times when these divisions are developed and manipulated for agendas that contain much more of "the cruelty aspects of nature", for example the financially diminishing and population reducing wars that can be the consequence of the alientation between an otherwise meaningless division of humanity. That keeps the oligarchies feeling secure, powerful, and in control.

Anyone who understands this truth, will also understand the precariousness of this point in time that we are in—everything is at a standstill for a second. We still have a chance to decide and act—do we want an economic system that favors the 99% as much as the 1%?

OR do we want a system that encourages continous disaster and violence for many of the world's 99%—but which will ultimately also bring disaster and violence to the 1% and the entire planet?

In 1776, as in most revolutions, the division was quite clear:

1.   The colonies wanted to be free of the oligarchical system to be able to develop a government and an economy that would be a tool for everyone—the entire 100%.

They wanted to declare themselves to be an independant Constitutional Republic, with checks and balances within that Constitution whereby no one would find it easy to corrupt the government—as long as the people kept up on the news, demanded truth on everything and were able to make truthful, clear choices about their leaders in the government elections.

2.   The British aristocracy, on the other hand, wanted their military to "tame" their annoyingly strong-willed American livestock into a herd of lemmings and then to secure and maintain a few power-addicted "alphas" into power positions, so as to keep that American herd—poor, hungry, stupid and available for their needs. 

This time will not be the first time that we will be bringing the system based on the principles in the Constitution, in particular Hamilton's "General Welfare," back to the government and the economy of the United States.

We now have over 225 years of up-and-down history on the U.S.- Oligarchy see-saw. If we keep ourself, our children, and everybody else educated, keeping up on true news, demanding truth on everything, able to make truthful, clear choices about the candidates in all government elections and keep in our minds the history of our nation, we will be able to move forward without repeating past mistakes.

Let us not allow our nation be continuing in the direction whereby human beings are once again to be the tools, the livestock, of an oligarchical economy. 

Let us bring back, full-force, our most human economic system — to be a tool for us.

 

Comments

polycarp2
The U.S. solved production

The U.S. solved production problems a long time ago. It's never solved distributing what's capable of being produced.to those who need it.

At a monastery, we produce what's needed and distrubute it to those requiring it. . When we produce too much, we go on vacation until the surplus is used up...then we go back to work. Unemployment is a time of celebration for a job well done...rather than a time of evictions, austerity and dispair.

 Our economy serves the members who make it up. All share equally in it's ownership. It's operated in a democratic manner. One monk = one vote.

Different system The economy is a tool, not a master.

Retired Monk -"Ideology is a disease"

rigel1
rigel1's picture
Karolina wrote:     Divisions

Karolina wrote:

 

 

Divisions such as liberals vs. conservatives, Democrats vs. Republicans, blacks vs. whites, rich vs. poor, aristocrats vs. riff-raff, everyone else vs. communists, men vs. women, gays vs. heterosexuals, religions vs. religions, countries vs. countries, nations vs. nations, alliances vs. alliances etc.,

Here is what works for me. I have opted out of all of the divisions that you mention. With the exception of maybe one. I do like the exchange of ideas between libs vs. cons. But too often it devolves into an insult fest. How sad that we cannot behave like adults when discussing politics. As for the rest of the divisions. They are beneath me. I have no time for them. I am at peace.

Karolina
Karolina's picture
Yes, Rigel, I think that they

Yes, Rigel, I think that they are meaningless divisions for any of us who are striving for perfection on all levels.  

They have certainly always been meaningless to me.

Karolina
Karolina's picture
Polycarp, so is the answer to

Polycarp, so is the answer to this problem in the US  "Produce less." ?

Or, would it be  "Estimate how much production is needed, and then stop before there is too much product." ?

Or, exactly what ??? 

I feel that right now we need to be thinking in terms of how to ASAP solve the many problems that face us, while there is still a bit of time. This is no doubt visible by the kinds of things that I write, and my effort to stay in a "Pollyana" frame of mind as much as possible. Optimism is probably the only thing that can save us, giving us the energy to keep fighting until our goals are understood and then accomplished.

I went to your page yesterday and read your blog post "Monks have sad days too" — and I totally related to the feeling of hopelessness due to world situations. I have found that the seeming hopelessness of this era in time paralyzes my spirit. Consequently, I have decided to stay optimistic, no matter how naive that may seem to other people. I try to do whatever little bit I can to learn, understand and fight to help keep human life and human civilization on earth intact—evolving, progressing & prospering for all humans—the 100%.

 

polycarp2
Karolina wrote: Or, would it

Karolina wrote:

Or, would it be  "Estimate how much production is needed, and then stop before there is too much product." ?

poly replies: You'd probably do better figuring out how to distribute what's needed rather than claiming surpluses of food when people are hungry and surpluses of transport when people are on foot.

Colo. slaughtered some of its dairy herds because of surpluses of milk. I know kids who could readily utilize it. and don't have any.

Your system has no means of distributing everythng it could potentially produce...even when there is a  need for it. Instead, you cut back on production when your distribution system (money) fails.. Poverty amidst potential plenty become the norm.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

Karolina
Karolina's picture
I couldn't understand why in

I couldn't understand why in your earlier note where you posted about exess production, you were focusing on a detail that is being impractically managed in the current US economy—I am focused on the problems that are right now damaging the US economy, the world economies, and what needs to be done to correct those problems.

Before anything else is done, Glass-Steagall has to be passed so that we can disentagle our finances permanently from the Wall Street banksters. Then the US needs to reinstitute bank credit through a newly established National Bank. With bank credit, even when the Euro finally crashes and the US is bankrupt, we can rebuild a production economy, to replace this foolish "service economy." How much "service" can the 99% offer the 1%, especially when the 99% is starving more & more?  Without production, we will certainly turn the US into a nation of beggars, hobos, death, and a few billionares.

When the US economy is supporting its citizens, then will be the time to worry about what we should do with the exess......

polycarp2
Well, right now the world

Well, right now the world economy is geared to servicing banksters and financiers. Their claims exceed the globe's economic output. The system is imploding as it has to.   It's imploding upon itself. Governments are feeding the implosion rather than addressing it.

.Understand how the monetary/economic system functions, then solutions can be proposed.. Unless solutions address the underlying problems, they won't work. Sort of like treating pneumonia by trimming one's toenails.

Money is a tool to provide for the exchange of goods/services.  Instead, money is being used to suck money out of the global economy and in the process is destroying the exchange of goods/services. 

Animated video: The banking/financial system. How it developed, how it functions, the inevitable consequences. It's so simple, even my12-year old niece grasped it.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=money+as+debt&mid=AAF7BA4DE3212084220EAAF7BA4DE3212084220E&view=detail&FORM=VIRE2

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

demandside
demandside's picture
The economy must be embedded

The economy must be embedded in society; society must not be embedded in privatization, securitization and self-righteousness/ bankster self-interest. Social growth must replace conventional growth.  Prosperity can be understood in terms of education and sustainability.  To read the 35-page manifesto from the Friedrich-Ebert foundation "Social Growth," click on

http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/id/ipa/08836.pdf

and "Housing as a Human Right" and "The Right to Development" at http://www.freembtranslations.net

 

Karolina
Karolina's picture
Poly, I have watched the

Poly, I have watched the video, just now, and enjoyed it.  Much of what was presented I already knew, which is why I saw that when the Euro collapses, Britain's banks (who are running Europe's banks) and our Federal Reserve will lose everything, and we will be able to truly be a soveriegn nation again, if we disentangle ourselves from the Wall Street bankers. We will have an opportunity—provided that there are true patriots, not agents for Wall Street and the British (oligarchical) banking system, in our leadership positions—to totally put Hamilton's plan into action. Finally, in the US  no one will be getting wealthy without actually producing something for the common welfare.

Incidentally, I thought that it was quite funny (not) that the US Presidents who were onto the fact that whoever controls the money of a nation has the control of that nation, were assasinated. They forgot to include JFK. I sometimes wonder how it was that FDR was not assassinated.

BTW, about what you said here "The system is imploding as it has to.   It's imploding upon itself. Governments are feeding the implosion rather than addressing it."—as this has been visibly happening, it has made me wonder if this is not being done specifically to start reducing the world population even before a new world war. By insisting on creating severe austerity, it becomes a sort of culling of the "excess humans."

elgiabo
elgiabo's picture
The problem is the

The problem is the federal-reserve banking system.

Banks Versus the American Dream
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atmVLBrON60

The Money Masters.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=The+money+changers&ei=Zd4QSMjvB47YqAKQtJmzBA

That and crony-capitalism.    Billions for solar companies that supported Obama but haven't produced a damn thing nor created one job.

There are literally 12 million patents at the US Patent Office just waiting to be acted on for economic revival.  However the banks won't lend these people any money for an economic reocvery.  However if you are Solyndra you'll get all the millions you ever need even if you fail.

THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE AMERICAN ECONOMY RIGHT NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Karolina
Karolina's picture
Demandside, your links seem

Demandside, your links seem very interesting, and I'll be fully reading them as I am able.

demandside wrote:
The economy must be embedded in society; society must not be embedded in privatization, securitization and self-righteousness/ bankster self-interest. Social growth must replace conventional growth.  Prosperity can be understood in terms of education and sustainability.

To read the 35-page manifesto from the Friedrich-Ebert foundation "Social Growth," click on
http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/id/ipa/08836.pdf

and "Housing as a Human Right" and "The Right to Development" at
http://www.freembtranslations.net

Elgiabo, I watched the first half-hour of your second link, and I will be watching it in "segments" as I am able. I believe that I watched it a few years ago, but a thorough refresher course is always good.

The first link, "Banks Versus the American Dream" brought me to a blank video box on YouTube, with only "This video has been removed by the User. Sorry about that." for an explanation.

elgiabo wrote:
The problem is the federal-reserve banking system.

Banks Versus the American Dream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atmVLBrON60

The Money Masters.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=The+money+changers&ei=Zd4QSMjvB47YqAKQtJmzBA

That and crony-capitalism.

 

I guess the Federal Reserve oligarchs don't want everybody in the US to suddenly find out what a horrible scam it is—it's a PRIVATE BANK with NOTHING FEDERAL, NOTHING RESERVED. 

It was established by the British, its title was chosen to fool the public, and it got the job of controlling all of the creation of our money in 1913. Before the Christmas Holiday, stealthy  Congressmen deliberately stayed behind to put the bill through after everyone else was on their way home, so that no one was able to vote "NAY."

President Woodrow Wilson signed it in, years later admitting that he had made a horrible mistake of putting the creation of the United States money into the hands of a different nation.

Nice.

 

Karolina
Karolina's picture
IMO the feminist backlash is

IMO the feminist backlash is profoundly evil, however it is no surprise to me.

Here I define the attitude and behavior of human beings as either good or evil:

All forms of human subjugation or any subjugation: BAD.

All forms of humanity, sharing and respect: GOOD.

That's all.

We are experiencing the beginnings of a long-planned subjugation of all human beings under a global oligarchy. That is what we all need to be aware of. That is the big fight.

When the danger of oligarchy and the danger of human extinction due to war, genoside, starvation, etc. is gone—we will also be rid of the feminist backlash as well as all of the mean bigotries that are arising right now.

.ren
.ren's picture
Karolina wrote: IMO the

Karolina wrote:

IMO the feminist backlash is profoundly evil, however it is no surprise to me.

Here I define the attitude and behavior of human beings as either good or evil:

All forms of human subjugation or any subjugation: BAD.

All forms of humanity, sharing and respect: GOOD.

That's all.

We are experiencing the beginnings of a long-planned subjugation of all human beings under a global oligarchy. That is what we all need to be aware of. That is the big fight.

When the danger of oligarchy and the danger of human extinction due to war, genoside, starvation, etc. is gone—we will also be rid of the feminist backlash as well as all of the mean bigotries that are arising right now.

You've set up an interesting good/bad binary there, Karolina.  But there's a huge challenge involved in achieving the good, which of course we want to achieve.

In a society where growth is possible, whether uncontrolled or controlled, infinite growth can negatively impact at least some human freedom features in the  "good" side of the binary equation by aggregately changing the circumstances that make those unsubjugated freedoms possible.  And any effort to talk about controlling growth usually creates controversy.  Note that I'm speaking across political spectrums here.

Currently we are living with a set of human ideals whereby infinite growth is the measure of good and those ideals are embedded in the society itself, especially its sense of freedom (of which the rest are jealous, that's why they attacked us, so said Bush), Can we dissect the aspects of that society that are taking us towards what is very obviously going to be some sort of disastrous collapse?

And with that question, I would like to see polycarp2 bring in his favorite Al Bartlett lecture: Arithmetic, population and energy. This is essentially the cold hard physics of the issue that must be addressed.

If we want peace, democracy, and a full spectrum of human rights, we must also figure out together how to achieve the ecological conditions essential for these things to exist.  If we don't, at a certain point even the one percent won't have much. 

Nature puts her foot down and steps in to set the limits.  And she's not bargaining when she does.  We need to understand nature -- and it seems from lots of good archaeological and anthropological evidence that many of our fore-bearers did, so maybe we can find some answers there.  We need to internalize Bartlett's lecture.  To ignore it -- to ignore that social justice and the ecological basis for life are inseparable -- is to pursue intellectual dishonesty... and that's the devils trap, not that humans aren't infinitely capable of that!  But the thing is, intellectual dishonesty is ultimately self and species defeating, so there's no point in playing that game.

Meanwhile, I agree with you.  If indeed there is a feminist backlash taking place, it is profoundly evil.  It was the feminists in the 1970s on the college campus I attended after my military subjugation and internment in the Vietnam theater with whom I was most simpatico. We were speaking the same language of cultural subjugation.  There were others, Camus, the existentialist who refused to be called an existentialist.  Chomsky in his writings on anarchism, language and individual freedom.  Krishnamurti who defies categorization. It's a universal language.

Karolina
Karolina's picture
In another thread, in

In another thread, in response to a version of my #1 post here, Pshakkottai just recommended an essay by Patrice Ayme Will to Vice

You might also find it very interesting, if you have not yet seen it. 

Let me just say though, that right now we have a passive-aggressive war going on, as seen by the police beatings of the protesters at the NATO Summit in Chicago, and we need to understand that we must fight that fight, tooth, nail and focused subconscious metaphysical energy (some people call it prayer). 

After that—I have never felt that humans have to stay on this planet only. There's a whole Universe out there to explore and live in, if science and technology are allowed to progress on & on .... BUT, along with a progression of our peoples' humanity and respect for everyone and everything.

IMO our problem is that too few people actually THINK, and so nature has to clobber us — because we as a species are not adapting to the changes that growth brings.

.ren
.ren's picture
Karolina wrote: In another

Karolina wrote:

In another thread, in response to a version of my #1 post here, Pshakkottai just recommended an essay by Patrice Ayme Will to Vice.

I'm familiar with the arguments.

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Karolina,you hit the problem

Karolina,you hit the problem on the head(with 1% vs 99%),do you agree hitting the solution on the head with "public own banks"??

Karolina
Karolina's picture
I think I've made my view

I think I've made my view very clear on this blog — as our government gets its corrupting "ALECs," other nations, and lobbyists out of its hair, we need to get a National Bank that can start the US back on the path to prosperity on all levels. 

Karolina
Karolina's picture
.ren wrote:In a society where

.ren wrote:
In a society where growth is possible, whether uncontrolled or controlled, infinite growth can negatively impact at least some human freedom features in the  "good" side of the binary equation by aggregately changing the circumstances that make those unsubjugated freedoms possible.  And any effort to talk about controlling growth usually creates controversy.  Note that I'm speaking across political spectrums here.

Ren, when I first read your post yesterday, I thought that when you said "growth," you were talking about human progress—economic growth for everybody, growth of education for everybody, growth of science, technology, music, art, good health for everybody.

I guess that I am a little bit focused on the things that I love.

Now that I have just watched Part 1 (first four videos) of the lecture that you suggested, I am thinking that what you meant was mainly about the growth of the human population. Am I right?

.ren
.ren's picture
Karolina wrote: Now that I

Karolina wrote:

Now that I have just watched Part 1 (first four videos) of the lecture that you suggested, I am thinking that what you meant was mainly about the growth of the human population. Am I right?

No.  Infinite growth as a concept is more integrated with human-created technology and more complicated than that.  I don't think focusing on the human population issue that's come about as a result will solve the other problems of complexity growth I am imagining when I do most of my postings.  I realized after your earlier follow-up post I am posting the wrong subject matter here.  So I'll bow out.

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
There are other ways to

There are other ways to achieve the goals of a healthy society. I'm partial to the Scandinavian consensus as opposed ti the Washington consensus. South American suffered tremendously from pursuing a Washington consensus path, mass executions and genocide at the behest of Washington [owned by corporate interests]. Bolivia has rejected that consensus, which leads to subjugation to the bankers.

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
/bolivia-washington-consensus

/bolivia-washington-consensus

Quote:

Bolivia has transformed itself by ignoring the Washington Consensus

By breaking with orthodox prescriptions for progress, Evo Morales has helped to forge a new Bolivia centred on 'living well'

 The reknowned economist Michael Hudson has exposed the imf and Wash consensus as a scam to ruin the countries that adopt it.

It's kind of like a drug pusher, the imf gets the country with natural resources addicted to the banks, the more indebted they get the tighter the yoke. Survival means turning over their resources to multinationals.

btw, Evo Morales is a native indian, a people that know how to live well without destruction.

Quote:

During 2011, the country's economy grew at 5.3%, above the Latin American average. It is not an isolated event. The economy has been constantly expanding since 2007, averaging 4.5% a year.

These economic and social successes have been attained following an alternative route to neoliberalism. Evo Morales's government did the opposite of what the Washington Consensus recommends: it nationalised hydrocarbons, electricity, telecommunications and mining; renegotiated the presence of direct foreign investment in the country; implemented an expansive fiscal policy and closed borders to the free importation of economically strategic products. The state took 34% of the economy under its control.

This exceptional performance was obtained even though remittances decreased, the United States revoked the most-favoured nation status for some Bolivian products, and in spite of a global recession. The oil income is now three times that of 2005. The tax revenues went up. The international currency reserves are up to more than $12bn dollars. The banking savings-and-loans system has been "Bolivian-ised" and the external debt has been reduced. The bid now is that Bolivia will take a "big industrial leap" in the next five years so that it ceases to be an extractor of natural resources and begins to export value-added goods.

However, the Bolivian story is not one of "progress", but of forging an alternative economy, one which stems from the original peoples and nations. At the centre of its proposal is the Suma Qamaña, a notion that has been incorporated into the constitution and that is translated as "living well", meaning to be in harmony and equilibrium with other people and with nature. It is a proposal born in the community, and it is based, not in the logic of economic profitability, but on producing goods according to nature. As Evo Morales has said: "We don't believe in the linear, cumulative conception of progress and of an unlimited development at the cost of other people and of nature. To live well is to think not only in terms of per capita income, but of cultural identity, community, harmony among ourselves and with Mother Earth."

Novel concept, living without exploiting.

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Koralina,any ideas on how to

Koralina,any ideas on how to "get/create" a public bank/central bank? If this is "the solution",shouldn`t this be #1 on everybody to-do list? If not,why not?? Maybe they don`t care, they`re waving the white flag?

Karolina
Karolina's picture
Maybe it will be #1 soon—just

Maybe it will be #1 soon—just be patient! It's a virtue!  :)

The thing is that we have a full national "recession" now, not just state "recessions". There are still banks called “National”, but they are not any more national than the Fed Reserve is federal. 

The National Bank would have local banks and would emit credit through the regional banks. From there to other banks, which are either state or federally chartered. 

In other words, it would function structurally like the Fed, but the difference is, what will be emitted is not just money, but targetted credits for infrastructure improvements and such. This way the banks can forward the credit to local businesses that will be participating in the government approved projects.

 FDR is smilling somewhere.

Karolina
Karolina's picture
Luis Hernández Navarro

Luis Hernández Navarro wrote:
...Two in every three Bolivians are indigenous people. Her answer, however, was not an isolated occurrence. It reflects the persistence of a white, deeply anti-indigenous Bolivia, which survives today even though deep changes have been introduced, including the approval of anti-racist legislation.

In spite of the force of racial discrimination, on 22 January 2006, the Aymara Indian and cocalero unionist Evo Morales was elected president. Since then, the Bolivian state and society have undergone a profound transformation. The country has been decolonised. Indigenous people hold key cabinet positions in government and also in political institutions, while their standard and quality of life have been notably improved.

In the past six years, Bolivia has become one of the Latin American countries most successful at improving its citizens' standard of living. Economic indicators such as low unemployment and decreased poverty, as well as better public healthcare and education, are outstanding.

Between 2005 and 2010, the proportion of those in moderate poverty went down from 60% to 49.6%, while extreme poverty fell from 38% to 25%. Likewise, the unemployment rate decreased from 8.4% to 4%. The United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) points out that Bolivia is the top country in Latin America in terms of transferring resources to its most vulnerable population – 2.5% of its GNP.

According to Alicia Bárcena, executive secretary of the UN Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean, "Bolivia is one of the few countries that has reduced inequality … the gap between rich and poor has been hugely narrowed."

One of the key tools in reducing poverty has been the expansive distribution of economic surplus among the population, through direct cash transfers and bonds in programmes such as Juancito Pinto and Juana Azurduy, the Renta Dignidad, and salary increases. These payments have contributed to increasing the number of children attending school, broadening the coverage of public pensions to alleviate extreme poverty among senior citizens, and delivering subsidies to mothers excluded from social security, so as to reduce children's mortality and expand pre- and post-natal attention.  ...

Without a doubt, this is the most heart-warming economics article that I have ever read! Thanks for the link Douglaslee!

The ideas are interesting and apparently successful. I wonder if they would some how be able to be applied in a much larger nation? We certainly need their results.

I know the indigenous people in that area have been living a socialist lifestyle for centuries, so this is what they are conditioned to be comfortable with. We have many people here who have been conditioned for decades to only insist on fascist oligarchical governments and economies. We'd have some left-wing re-education to do on the FOXies. :)

BTW, I am about to Google Scandinavian Consensus, but if you have a site where it is explained, I would appreciate the info!

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Karolina,i will be patient

Karolina,i will be patient when mother nature is.With all the dead canaries in the mine,we need to get our act together.The solution is common sense,but i see nobody in progressive leadership talking about it.A depression/recession should be more the reason for a public bank than against it.I can see FDR smiling when the "people have control of their money".Poverty will end when people have control.Our leadership is bankrupt to ignore this solution.  

Karolina
Karolina's picture
I agree Tayl. I wasn't being

I agree Tayl. I wasn't being patronizing, just trying to keep a very difficult situation light. Believe me I am more likely to feel anxiety before anyone else, so I have had to teach myself to "make it light" as I work on "the problem." 

The ALECs and such are also trying to buy & corrupt the often already corrupted state governments. This is another reason that I believe it is imperative that our federal government be immediately corrected.

Only then can we proceed successfully with a plan to regulate the banks and Wall Street, put in the public banks including the National Bank in place of the Fed, and start the economy & employment of millions of people with government approved projects under the Hamiltonian credit system.

If the states start to think of themselves as 50 little independent units of people on the North American continent, we have lost the war and the globalists are smiling everywhere.

Then, even with public banks in our states, we will be the 21st century version of Dark Age serfs. Corporate serfs. People potentially as deeply subjugated as the genocide victims in the cruellest places in Africa. We will have lost all of our power to legally help ourselves.

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Karolina,sorry for late

Karolina,sorry for late reply.I hear you on keeping a difficult subject light.I think we can agree on the problems,but the solutions? What`s the best way to "correct the government"? I say grassroots put their 2 cents together and start a public bank. This can set the foundation for economic freedom from the money kings.A public bank can give us the power to get our democracy back.What would be the problem of 50 independent public banks if they have a national economic constitution?? How can the economic kings smile when they control our money "no-more"?? Was King George smiling when America declare independence? Another issue,public banking is more than economics,it`s moral,social/political, and religious.Lessons learn from present and past failures. 

Karolina
Karolina's picture
I agree with you on

I agree with you on this—right now, sadly, It seems as though the only chance that we might have is putting our energy into grass roots efforts. While we still have a bit of power left.....

The "economic king" will not be smiling, but will be immediately figuring out a different way to extract money from the US citizens—unless the banks are reregulated with the the Congressinal passage of the Glass-Steagal Act, word-for-word.

The ones who say that the Glass-Steagall Act is an out dated set of banking regulations, is actually saying that this is a timeless set of banking regulations that keeps banking honest, safe, corruption free—and unable to create massive economic disasters that benefit a few, as they bring tragedy to the 99%.

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Karolina,the 99% have all the

Karolina,the 99% have all the power,but how will it be use? Right now ,the 1% is using it. We can limit the use by giving back to ourselfs,if they(1%) try to stop it,it will be all-out war.Nobody will go back to "slavery"(whatever label it is) Man made laws are as good as they`re reinforce by the laws of nature. Anybody that break public banking law should be kick out of civilization.Glass-Steagall Act was good in its time,but the 1% always got around it. It`s outdated now because whether it`s private banks or Wall st banks,capitalism is killing the "planet earth"! We need a new economic system,and public banking base on economic democracy is the replacement.I see no better idea out there? This is a vision to carry humanity into the future. Time we "spread the solution",so most of us don`t look forward to "Judgement Day". When the people know of a "better mousetrap"(public banking) the economic kings with their old capitalist mousetrap will be "out of business". Let`s spread the "public banking word"!   PS  I like your updated thread,it`s very strong.

Karolina
Karolina's picture
Without Glass-Steagall,

Without Glass-Steagall, corruption will not be regulated out and both public banking and private banking will not be effective. There is no way around that.

As long as there are any loopholes the fascists, the neo cons, the libertarians, the rights, the foreign nations, the private banks, the ALECs, etc., etc., etc., will find ways to get inside of anything that has the money of the people that they live to loot.

The only way to keep parasites permanently away is to diligently protect against their infestation. Glass-Steagall was that protection for 7 decades.

Once vermin are allowed to take control of a situation, it is a long, hard battle to regain freedom from the destruction they cause, as we can all see now.

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Karolina,"greed is good"

Karolina,"greed is good" capitalism is the reason for regulation.As long as that concept is accepted,all the regulations in the world won`t work! A system that spread economic equality and justice,won`t need so many regulations.Public banking is that kind of system.We learn greed is good,we can unlearn it,we have no choice, if we want to survive. You can believe,"it`s no way to avoid it". 

Karolina
Karolina's picture
Why would any intelligent

Why would any intelligent person want to have their money be vulnerable to the people who took the 70+ years of time to finally, after much planning & diligence, get Glass-Steagall repealed so that they could run hog wild without any regulations, and gamble our nation's money away?

Please tell me that you are not naive enough to think that the banksters have unlearned "greed is good," and so the banks should be left unregulated — or even just less regulated — than before these creeps got their free market, free capitalism, free corruption green flag. 

Why would you even think to do something so foolish?

Glass-Steagall has to be passed and enforced. Now that Europe is about to be huge changes in the European market after Greece & Spain's situaions, we need to make our US regulations official ASAP, so we are not left vulnerable as markets crumble.

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Karolina,please reread my

Karolina,please reread my post,you have misunderstood what i have said.If i`m wrong,please tell me how you come to this understanding? 

Karolina
Karolina's picture
I read your post as saying

I read your post as saying that we don't need regulations for our banks, and that what we really need is to unlearn "greed is good" banking.

I am saying that we need to make all our banking safe ASAP, as do the European countries—and that can only be done by passing the Glass-Steagall regulations, which kept the USA out of financial devastation since they were passed by FDR.

Any chartered bank, even if it has a casino arm, is under government protection. When Glass-Steagall is the law, the government is not resposible for any speculation and gambling. With Glass-Steagall, the greedy bankers have to find ways to put themselves at risk, not the country.

Private banking is the second step in having a great banking system, after regulations for all chartered banks. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding what you wrote. 

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Karolina,i`m saying

Karolina,i`m saying "regulations" won`t save the banks,the system is beyond repair.And with a concept of greed is good,there will alway be a will to break the rules(whatever) I mention public banking to replace this fail system that nobody trust,as it can bring trust,morality,justice,democracy,equality to economics and get our government back with less corruption.I just talk about banking,but the main problem is capitalism,it cannot work in a "finite world". But one thing at a time,controlling our money is the #1 issue,until we do that,the tail will keep wagging the dog.Hope you understand?  

Karolina
Karolina's picture
I understand, but

I understand, but Glass-Steagall must be reactivated. Banksters must be regulated to not be able to follow their "greed is good" impulses, unless they want to go to jail for sure.

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Koralina,lets work

Koralina,lets work together,what`s the best way to get Glass-Steagal reactivated and a public bank created?? 

jmart77
jmart77's picture
Here is a interveiw on a

Here is a interveiw on a right wing talk show, The guy is telling the truth on the banks!

http://www.kfyi.com/player/?station=KFYI-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=terrygilberg.xml&mid=22143614#.T8vMfUVUzpk.email

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Jmart77, thanks for

Jmart77, thanks for info/links. But i know more than i want to know about how bad the banking system is.What i want to focus on,is how to replace it? I ask Karolina what are her ideas and get no response. You have any ideas?

Karolina
Karolina's picture
I'm so sorry, Tayl, but I am

I'm so sorry, Tayl, but I am very busy & wasn't sure how to answer you, other than to say "Contact your congress people!" and "Spread the word.!" and "Talk to people at Occupy Movement events about making these ideas—immediate goals!"

I have found this site to have a lot of information about reenacting of the Glass-Steagal Act, about the banking system (also here), and about further ideas for US massive economy rebuilding work.

Possibly this might help you get more ideas—and this is good for anyone else who might be interested.

tayl44
tayl44's picture
Karolina,thanks for

Karolina,thanks for answers/post. The only ideas i get,is why all these other ideas of protests has fail? My only guess is we are seeing the problem the wrong way?  We`re using a moral code that don`t work,why? My guess is we`re dealing with a different moral code of the 1%,they live by "survival of the fittest",that is caveman mentality. We need protests that can respond to this thinking. We need protests that will make the 1% think that the 99% idea of survival is better than their's. Any ideas on new protests  to get the caveman to "advance" ??

Karolina
Karolina's picture
That is interesting, Tayl.

That is interesting, Tayl. Let me process your ideas, you keep thinking along those line — and let's see what we can come up with!

tayl44
tayl44's picture
The caveman banker think risk

The caveman banker think risk make money,what about cooperation replacing risk? Imagine charging interest base on cooperation not profit? The common good would be the new moral code. Karolina,how much would you charge for cooperation?