I live near a city where there is a serious problem with metal theft. People are stealing copper and other metals from construction sites, air conditioners and just about any place where copper is used. So how has the city responded? In true big government fashion they have decided to punish everybody. Their answer is to require anyone who wishes to sell scrap metal to pay a fee, undergo a backround check and obtain a vendors license. So if you want to recycle metal from your home improvement project, or you are electrician who wants to scrap extra wire or simply someone who collects soda cans from the office, you are screwed. You are presumed guilty and must be proven innocent. And you have to pay to do it. What this will do is destroy the inner city recycling centers. People will simply drive a few minutes until they are outside of city limits and do business with another center that does not have to deal with government tyranny. Who will be hurt? The poor people of the city who cannot afford a vendors license or a trip out of the city.
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That sounds a lot like the new voter registration laws that the GOP is trying desperately to put in place all over the country. That's not true big government fashion, that's true bad government fashion. Not to mention very GOPish in nature. Keep on voting conservative!
That sounds a lot like the new voter registration laws that the GOP is trying desperately to put in place all over the country. That's not true big government fashion, that's true bad government fashion. Not to mention very GOPish in nature. Keep on voting conservative!
Well B.W. I don't know if you noticed, but I did not bring party afilliation into the conversation. Stupidity has no party. But since you brought it up, eight of the nine council members in this city are democrats. Tyranny.
That sounds a lot like the new voter registration laws that the GOP is trying desperately to put in place all over the country. That's not true big government fashion, that's true bad government fashion. Not to mention very GOPish in nature. Keep on voting conservative!
Well B.W. I don't know if you noticed, but I did not bring party afilliation into the conversation. Stupidity has no party. But since you brought it up, eight of the nine council members in this city are democrats. Tyranny.
I was guessing they were. Seems the way things are working these days. The story just immediately made me think of the voter registration jargon. I'm glad you responded, I had just told my wife that it was probably some democrat that was responsible. Little did I know that it was 8 of them.
That sounds a lot like the new voter registration laws that the GOP is trying desperately to put in place all over the country. That's not true big government fashion, that's true bad government fashion. Not to mention very GOPish in nature. Keep on voting conservative!
Well B.W. I don't know if you noticed, but I did not bring party afilliation into the conversation. Stupidity has no party. But since you brought it up, eight of the nine council members in this city are democrats. Tyranny.
I was guessing they were. Seems the way things are working these days. The story just immediately made me think of the voter registration jargon. I'm glad you responded, I had just told my wife that it was probably some democrat that was responsible. Little did I know that it was 8 of them.
You're a good man B.W. Open minded. I wish more of us were.
For lovers of local solutions to our problems, this is a fine example. The reason people are stealing the metals? We might begin with the war on drugs. We might add the amount of poverty and GOPimp sabotaged employment situation. I am not sure why aluminum cans are a problem, and we have no problem with recycling metal and building supplies in Oregon. There is no exclusive monopoly on dumb, but why do you only bring issues where it is democrats involved? I think we have plenty of critics of democrats on this board. I don't see this example as a party problem.
Suggest your solution.
For lovers of local solutions to our problems, this is a fine example. The reason people are stealing the metals? We might begin with the war on drugs. We might add the amount of poverty and GOPimp sabotaged employment situation. I am not sure why aluminum cans are a problem, and we have no problem with recycling metal and building supplies in Oregon. There is no exclusive monopoly on dumb, but why do you only bring issues where it is democrats involved? I think we have plenty of critics of democrats on this board. I don't see this example as a party problem.
Suggest your solution.
I had no intention of bringing pary politics into the discussion. I was not the first to mention it. My solution? Try to find and arrest those who have commited crimes. Sometime you succeed, sometime you won't. Punishing the law abiding is not an answer.
In San Franisco this problem comes from the early 90's. Here it was the yuppie house flippers claiming that neighborhood recycling centers lowered real estate values - in other words, bigoted nimbys. At least temporarily the issue was defanged by the people electing a 5-4 Green majority to the Board Of Supervisors. This led to a (partially, but sufficient) purging of the corrupt elements of the local Democratic Party (most of the Greens returned to the DP after 2000 and became a reform movement) On the other hand, there are neighborhoods in SF where you cannot take a week's vacation even if you can afford it because your home will be stripped of its wiring when you get back.
One of the most recent waves of metal theft for recycling to hit the Baltimore-Washington area has been copper rain gutters and downspouts (which can be very expensive to replace if you live in an historic district, where 'period' replacements are required). This is in addition to copper pipes and wiring from construction sites or abandoned housing. In earlier years, the hot items were light poles from city and county streets, sewer hole covers, catalytic converters, and any solid-looking metal statues or lawn ornaments in someones yard that could be carried away. There have been some changes in procedures for providing identification at a recycler, but due to complaints, some of the proposed requirements were watered down. All it takes is one 'legitimate' recycler doing a little business on the side to turn stolen items into cold cash.
Tyranny.
What is this going to be the "Aluminum Can Party"? Toss those cans in the harbour! But watch where you throw the 'tyranny' word. You might just cause it to lose meaning if you toss it about so carelessly.
That seems like a sensible policy. It should cut down on theft as it reduces the return for thieves and increases risk of getting caught.
The less intrusive way to do it would be to just require a valid photo ID, attach that to a free permit (uh oh someone may have to pay tax for this policy), maybe require some sort of documentation as to how they acquired the scrap. They do this for electronic waste recycling. And of course it would be better if it were a county policy instead of a city policy, even better statewide.
It would be best if people didn't have to strip houses to eat.
Tyranny.
What is this going to be the "Aluminum Can Party"? Toss those cans in the harbour! But watch where you throw the 'tyranny' word. You might just cause it to lose meaning if you toss it about so carelessly.
You are right. We do toss these words about carelessly. Conservatives use terms such as "socialist and tyranny" way too easily. And liberals throw around words such as "racism and fascism" without any merit. We all need to do better.
Fascism is the union of Commerce and the State, what Mussolini also called Corporatism. But, it also implies stuff that could be out of our American context even if it falls very short of democracy. Let's agree that the issue is democracy and a proper role of government; and if you guys will treat socialism as an objective term instead of "tyranny," it might help us avoid polemics.
On the issue of racism, it is such an indelible part of America where White continues to mean a lot more than European/American or merely a less than accurate reference to skin color, that I cannot treat the "post-racialism" claimed by people who continue to make an issue of America "losing" anything in the demographic shift toward more ethnic diversity as real. My own experience, and the reason others have cited Tim Wise, is that the way to be freed from racism is to appreciate and own how drenched we have been in it. Being "dry drunks" on racism is not the same as getting over or past it. It just means you aren't drinking it and intend to go sober. It does not mean that you have become aware.
You are right. We do toss these words about carelessly. Conservatives use terms such as "socialist and tyranny" way too easily. And liberals throw around words such as "racism and fascism" without any merit. We all need to do better.
It is not just liberals, and it is not without merit. There are very thoughtful arguments on these things being played out. The words have not lost meaning, like 'socialism' and 'tyranny' have, Jonah Goldberg notwithstanding. The threat of 'socialism' in this country is absurd. The threat of fascism is not. And it is not exclusive to any political party. The party identification, the right/left paradigm, and the absurd accusations of 'socialism' are distractions from this fact. There is no "both sides do it" nonsense. Most people have no idea what the two sides really are. The destruction of language helps to insure that.
You are right. We do toss these words about carelessly. Conservatives use terms such as "socialist and tyranny" way too easily. And liberals throw around words such as "racism and fascism" without any merit. We all need to do better.
It is not just liberals, and it is not without merit. There are very thoughtful arguments on these things being played out. The words have not lost meaning, like 'socialism' and 'tyranny' have, Jonah Goldberg notwithstanding. The threat of 'socialism' in this country is absurd. The threat of fascism is not. And it is not exclusive to any political party. The party identification, the right/left paradigm, and the absurd accusations of 'socialism' are distractions from this fact. There is no "both sides do it" nonsense. Most people have no idea what the two sides really are. The destruction of language helps to insure that.
We kinda strayed from the topic a bit.
Metal being stolen in Denver is copper from the construction of the light rail system.. It's adding to the costs and pushing the completion date further down the road.
If politicians have anything to do with it....it's in not addressing the survival needs of those stealing it. People will find a way to eat and keep a roof over their head, one way or another,
Corruption isn't limited to Repugnants.There is plenty of it floating around the Dem Party as well. My own Dem Congressman isn't free of it. I've addressed his corruption in another thread.
Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease" .