Proctor and Gamble's corporate hell.

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P & G is not a great company. They are preparing to lay off 5,700 employees merely to raise the stock value.

They also have a policy of force ranking their employees. They have quotas for success and failure. According to their business model, a certain percentage of employees must fail. If the number of successful employees is too high, then somebody must be targeted for failure in order to meet their failure quota. If they can't find a legit reason for failure, they have no problem with making one up. The quota must be met. There are no exceptions.

They also pit women and minorities against white men. If a white man and someone in a protected group are competing for a job, the white man will have the women's group, the African American group, the latino group or another group to contend with as well. They are powerful and couldn't care less who has earned the promotion. They seem to believe that they can use racism and sexism to cure racism and sexism. This does nothing to promote diversity, it causes resentment. It's become a real mess. It can be a hell hole at times.

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rigel1
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Comments

Generally progressives like to pile on when ever there is any criticism of corporate America. I'm a little surprised.

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rigel1
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Did I miss something? Is Procter and Gamble a Progressive or Democratic business? If your assertions were true, it would be more corporate management stuff that we don't applaud and an unfair labor practice. But, criticism of affirmative action has always been an empty charge about poor white guys instead of anything real about unqualified or less qualified people stealing their jobs. What is your point here? Can you prove that white men are really being screwed by this corporation because that would be news. We do have lots of teachers with seniority being fired for being more expensive cane cutters. We can find cheaping out by corporate, but not progressive policies causing anything like this.

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DRC
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Quote DRC:

We do have lots of teachers with seniority being fired for being more expensive cane cutters. We can find cheaping out by corporate, but not progressive policies causing anything like this.

Funny you mentioned teachers. Because the union has really cost a lot of teachers their jobs. Example: In Buffalo N.Y. The teachers "health care" provides for free and unlimited plastic surgery. You can get a butt job this week and a boob job the next. What is the deductable? Zero, zip, nada. So who is paying? The tax payers.

So think about it. When the schools come begging for more money what are people to do? They will gladly pay for busses and books but give up more of their hard earned money so some vain teacher can get lipo? Disgusting!

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rigel1
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The Better World Shopping Guide lists P&G as the 14th worst corporation in the world, and I've been boycotting them for a long time (of course, that's easier to do when you're an overprivileged, white male).

Of course, their ranking doesn't have anything to do with affirmative action or the ignorant notion that affirmative action is itself racist.

Affirmative Action for Dummies Try not to take offense at the title, rigel.

Affirmative Action for White Folks

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Garrett78
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Quote Garrett78:

The Better World Shopping Guide lists P&G as the 14th worst corporation in the world, and I've been boycotting them for a long time (of course, that's easier to do when you're an overprivileged, white male).

Of course, their ranking doesn't have anything to do with affirmative action or the ignorant notion that affirmative action is itself racist.

Affirmative Action for Dummies Try not to take offense at the title, rigel.

Affirmative Action for White Folks

I did not know about the rating. But it fits. Every P&G employee does know this. They do pit each worker against his co-worker. And all of the protected groups against white males. Some of these men have families to feed and have never discriminated against anyone. Yet they are being punished for someone else's past sin. It is impossible to favor one group without discriminating against another. You can bust your ass for the company and try to get a promotion, but if not enough members of a protected group have been promoted you will be torpedoed. They are not above making up lies to do it. It's all about the numbers.

When I was with P&G I tried like hell to be color blind. That is the way I would prefer to live my life. But the company is so hyper focused on race and gender they make this impossible. Sad really.

I am a white male as well, but I am not over priveledged. Lower middle class backround. I did not earn over $25,000 until I was 37 years old. It was tough, but I earned every dollar that passed through my hand and didn't complain about it. I did something about it.

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rigel1
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Quote rigel1:

I am a white male as well, but I am not over priveledged.

Yeah, you are.

Seriously, man, read White Like Me. I dare you. It's a great starting point for understanding white (over)privilege.

And read this: http://www.timwise.org/2008/01/when-blacks-attack-reflections-on-white-victimology-and-the-ironies-of-institutional-racism/

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Garrett78
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There's no more "protected" or overprivileged group than white males.

Another of Wise's works that I highly recommend is one of his most recent books titled, Colorblind.

Historical injustices continue to impact the present. And racism is not a thing of the past, even if it's less overt. It's systemic/institutionalized and pervasive. Claims of so-called "reverse racism" are preposterous. http://www.timwise.org/2002/06/honky-wanna-cracker-examining-the-myth-of-reverse-racism/

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Garrett78
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Quote Garrett78:
Quote rigel1:

I am a white male as well, but I am not over priveledged.

Yeah, you are.

Seriously, man, read White Like Me. I dare you. It's a great starting point for understanding white (over)privilege.

And read this: http://www.timwise.org/2008/01/when-blacks-attack-reflections-on-white-victimology-and-the-ironies-of-institutional-racism/

Name three things that have been given to me because I am white. Then name one or two that have been given to people because they are black. Any good job that I have had, being black has been a huge advantage. I don't need to read a book to know what I see. When I have to I.D. my race on a job application, I don't think it is because they are looking to hire more whites. Do you?

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Quote Peggy McIntosh:

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

If books aren't your thing, perhaps a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA

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From a previous poster: Name three things that have been given to me because I am white

poly replies: I found it a bit amusing that Garrett's list was way longer than 3....and found a bit of dispair in the accuracy of it.

I see it everyday. Who doesn't if they keep their eyes and ears functioning?.Look at the world from another viewpoint, and its quite obvious.

Retired Monk -"Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

rigel, try listing your "race" as European-American instead of White, and then try to understand why there is a difference. I hope you are reading the posts responding to you and learning. I wish White people would get over their whining about people who are not White being equal FOR A CHANGE. When that happens, in the very rare instance, it is so refreshing to see what not having your advantages really is like. Otherwise they just happen and you have no idea. That is why this nonsense gets traction, that and conservative nostalgia for the "good old days."

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DRC
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Quote polycarp2:I found it a bit amusing that Garrett's list was way longer than 3....and found a bit of dispair in the accuracy of it.

Crap, he did only ask for 3, didn't he? I could have sworn he wrote, "50." Oh well.

McIntosh's well-known piece is just the tip of the iceberg. Tim Wise, Eduardo Bonilla Silva and others get a lot more in-depth.

I suspect many folks are unaware of the studies that have demonstrated how covert racism impacts people of color both psychologically and physiologically. Anyone who wishes to can read a bit about that here: Colorblind by Tim Wise

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Garrett78
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Just my opinion, and I've expressed it before: affirmative action if a losing issue for the left. Bringing it up only enflames and energizes the right (OMG that list.) The trend is, and has been for a long time, for racial and cultural tolerance. At least in Southern California. Of course bigotry still exists, but for the most part those people leave for places like Arizona and Idaho and Utah.

chilidog
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I only point out that the whiners are those who have lost their 400 years of White Male affirmative action. Oh, they really have not lost it that much yet. But oh the pain and suffering of these opponents of the culture of victimization! The only disadvantage of being a White Male is being associated with these louts. Fortunately, I find women, gays and people of color who can judge me on character instead of by skin color and gender. Love the irony.

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DRC
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Quote DRC:

rigel, try listing your "race" as European-American instead of White, and then try to understand why there is a difference.

I find it offensive that I have to list my race at all. If I can solve problems or be productive it has everything to do with my talents and nothing to do with what I look like. To place so much emphasis on what people look like is devisive. It causes resentment. But there is no doubt that many liberals (not all) want this. They want race do be an issue, they need race to be an issue. And if they can't find any real racial issues, they will happily make some up. The last thing they want is for America to get over it's racial divide.

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rigel1
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Quote rigel1:
Quote DRC:

rigel, try listing your "race" as European-American instead of White, and then try to understand why there is a difference.

I find it offensive that I have to list my race at all. If I can solve problems or be productive it has everything to do with my talents and nothing to do with what I look like. To place so much emphasis on what people look like is devisive. It causes resentment. But there is no doubt that many liberals (not all) want this. They want race do be an issue, they need race to be an issue. And if they can't find any real racial issues, they will happily make some up. The last thing they want is for America to get over it's racial divide.

I am calling bullshit.
Who started the thread, and included women and minorities?

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Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

rigel made a claim that P and G had a 'reverse discrimination' employment policy that harmed him. I asked for proof, got none, and called him a whiner.

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DRC
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Quote rigel1:
Quote Garrett78:
Quote rigel1:

I am a white male as well, but I am not over priveledged.

Yeah, you are.

Seriously, man, read White Like Me. I dare you. It's a great starting point for understanding white (over)privilege.

And read this: http://www.timwise.org/2008/01/when-blacks-attack-reflections-on-white-victimology-and-the-ironies-of-institutional-racism/

Name three things that have been given to me because I am white. Then name one or two that have been given to people because they are black. Any good job that I have had, being black has been a huge advantage. I don't need to read a book to know what I see. When I have to I.D. my race on a job application, I don't think it is because they are looking to hire more whites. Do you?

1. Acceptance by the majority

2. Respect from the majority

3. A Chance from the majority

Note: These aren't material things. It's never been about material things.

These are a right of birth if your skin is light enough. If your skin is too dark then these things must be earned.

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Bush_Wacker
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Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am

P&G has a system for grading workers, which apparently includes grading on a curve. The people on the bottom end of that curve get fired. That is how they roll. Does it suck? Well if you are on that crummy employee end of the curve, sure.

Some people at P&G have figured out a way to form constituencies, to help each other in their individual careers. Because, I am assuming, they have some peer grading going on. So strong individuals who have no friends at P&G get lower scores from the people who belong to one group who score worse than the friendly "connectors" who belong to multiple groups.

But, aren't people who quickly make friends, work well with others as individuals and as work groups the sort of employees P&G wants more of? Aren't those the types who make better managers?

People who don't work well with others, don't make good team members and don't get along well with the P&G system are the ones who get the lower scores so they get selected out. You are crying that they "make up" reasons, but the reason is largely "you don't fit".

A good manager would work with a person to help them fit, work to get the most out of each person, find the best role for each member. But, that is kind of a namby pamby solution, it is easier to just fire the bottom group off the bell curve.

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Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm
Quote DRC:

rigel made a claim that P and G had a 'reverse discrimination' employment policy that harmed him. I asked for proof, got none, and called him a whiner.

It's not provable. And I don't feel the least bit obligated to prove anything anyway. Only people who are at the company and see it first hand know the drill. I tell of my life experiences. People are free to believe what they choose. Here is the good news. You can chose not to believe it and I can chose not to care. We can both be perfectly happy with that. We can also agree that you are an excellent name caller. One of the best I have seen. Tommy Gardner, my 6th grade classmate was the best, but you run a close second. See DRC, we have reached common ground!!!

Stay thisty my friend.

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rigel1
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Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am

If you want to complain about the way corporations fire experienced and higher wage employees to replace them with people they can pay less, fine. If you want to be angry about the reduction and elimination of benefits for younger hires, fine. Just don't blame the people hired for the greed of the management. I really don't give a damn about the whining of White Men about the inclusion of women and people of color in America. I have yet to see reverse affirmative action replace the advantage of white men. I have certainly seen no decline in ability in women and people of color compared to them.

I have heard a lot of ugly whining and racism and misogny. You come here to provoke, and back at you whiner.

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DRC
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote DRC:

I have heard a lot of ugly whining and racism and misogny. You come here to provoke, and back at you whiner.

Whiner? Oh maybe a little. Have you read any of your own posts? I'm not gonna call you a whiner, cause as ya'll know, I stopped the mindless name calling thing when I left the play ground.

BUT,

You complain. You complaint A LOT!

I won't say you're whining but, man you can complain!

Mindless name calling degrads the name caller not the one who it is directed at. I have way, way too much self respect to engage.

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rigel1
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Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am

Once again, I'm reminded of those comedy sketches where the white person says, "Oh, was he black? I hadn't even noticed. You see, I don't see color." It's about as funny as seeing someone dressed in 18th Century garb tell you to "get over the past" when the topic of racism comes up.

No lengthy list of white privileges, no amount of information about affirmative action (Affirmative Action for Dummies) will get the "colorblind" (blind to both present and historical injustice, as well as the lingering impacts of historical injustices) crowd out of their state of white privilege denial. I, mean, golly gee whiz, the US is a meritocracy by god. Maybe it wasn't always, but it surely is now...and when those past injustices ended, they ended...there's no lingering effects. For instance the wealth gap that persists couldn't have a damn thing to do with, say, the fact that minorities and women weren't eligible for various Social Security provisions when first enacted. Oh no, slavery ended (sorry about that, by the way, but that's all in the past) and a civil rights act was enacted nearly 50 years ago, so we're all good. If anything, what we have now is a problem with "reverse racism" (Reverse Racism).

As rigel says, he doesn't need a book, such as White Like Me by Tim Wise or Race Matters by Cornel West. He sees what he sees, and what he doesn't see is color. Riiiiiight.

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Garrett78
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Sep. 3, 2010 9:20 am

If you want to come here and post assinine crap, I will call you on it. If you want to claim to be honest and balanced, but have nothing to say about the racism, sexism and homophobia--or the exceptionalist Americanism-- well, you deserve getting called on it. I find White Men who complain about racism in Blacks or why women are getting ahead of them to be insipid little boys. Sit on it. Or just go where you get reinforcement from the other little boys.

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DRC
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Garrett78:

Once again, I'm reminded of those comedy sketches where the white person says, "Oh, was he black? I hadn't even noticed. You see, I don't see color." It's about as funny as seeing someone dressed in 18th Century garb tell you to "get over the past" when the topic of racism comes up.

No lengthy list of white privileges, no amount of information about affirmative action (Affirmative Action for Dummies) will get the "colorblind" (blind to both present and historical injustice, as well as the lingering impacts of historical injustices) crowd out of their state of white privilege denial. I, mean, golly gee whiz, the US is a meritocracy by god. Maybe it wasn't always, but it surely is now...and when those past injustices ended, they ended...there's no lingering effects. For instance the wealth gap that persists couldn't have a damn thing to do with, say, the fact that minorities and women weren't eligible for various Social Security provisions when first enacted. Oh no, slavery ended (sorry about that, by the way, but that's all in the past) and a civil rights act was enacted nearly 50 years ago, so we're all good. If anything, what we have now is a problem with "reverse racism" (Reverse Racism).

As rigel says, he doesn't need a book, such as White Like Me by Tim Wise or Race Matters by Cornel West. He sees what he sees, and what he doesn't see is color. Riiiiiight.

That's great. I have no problem with anything you have said. My goal was to inform you of the devisive practices of P&G. I have succeeded in that. What you think of it is your own business.

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rigel1
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Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am

WTF! You have asserted an opinion about corporate practice at P&G, but you have not proved anything. What I think is that you are whining about equality of opportunity taking away your privileged class. Were your case about dumping older, experienced workers to avoid paying their pensions, we would have to see the evidence but it would be about something other than equality of opportunity in hiring.

I have a friend who was just laid off by the Post Office because he was a recent hire. Last in, first out, and all. He is a European-American male, but he does not see it as losing out to less qualified people of color and women. Stop whining and hoping that we don't notice.

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DRC
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