As I said my friends, this is a tad bit radical.
Two things: There is a surplus of crooks and there is a shortage of organ donars.
Occasionally we hear of a healthy person donating a kidney to a friend or even someone they have never met. I am in awe of people like this. They are better than me. How many kids have died while waiting for a kidney? If someone is sentenced to ten years in prison for a non-violent crime, why not let them have the opportunity to cut their sentence in half by donating a kidney. This would be the ultimate "time off for good behavior." This would not be forced, this would be the free choice of the prisoner. It would reduce prison over crowding and save lives. Sounds like a win-win.
Two more things: Again, we have prison over crowding and we have "jobs that Americans won't do."
Offer non violent offenders an opportunity to earn a living. Let them reduce their sentences by 20% by working in the fields. Pay them $5 dollars/ hr. Let them earn a little money to be used when they are released. Again, it would be voluntary. If it were me, and my choice was to rot in a cell for ten years or go out in the sunshine, earn some money and get out two years early, I would take the latter. Also, after their release, they would have the option of staying on at $10 hour until they could find better work. Again. A win-win.
Comments
Another version of slave labor is not exactly the answer to absurd sentencing policies, the War on Drugs and the racist, anti-poor two tiered legal system. We already have prison industries, and there is the incentive of good behavior as measured by the prisons to reduce time served. None of this really gets at the redemptive potential of what was once called a "reformitory" or "penitentiary." Both terms refer to a theory of redemption, but I think our retributive justice ought to be replaced by something less interested in vengeance. There are people who need to be separated from society because we can do little or nothing to help them be decent human neighbors and citizens. There are a few whose crimes need to be made an example of, but I think that is about the abuse of power and not what scares or offends us emotionally. This is why I refuse to join those who want child rapists tortured. I want them kept away from children, but I have no idea why they are tempted to commit these crimes and I refuse to make my ignorance or their horror stories cause for rituals of violence. I would rather protect and care for the kids.
Let them reduce their sentences by 20% by working in the fields. Pay them $5 dollars/ hr.
I might be amenable to this idea if the state gets to charge the farmer/agribusiness corporation $60/hr for the services.
Probably cheaper for us than the arrangement we have now with agribusiness.
Let them reduce their sentences by 20% by working in the fields. Pay them $5 dollars/ hr.
I might be amenable to this idea if the state gets to charge the farmer/agribusiness corporation $60/hr for the services.
Probably cheaper for us than the arrangement we have now with agribusiness.
You are correct they would have to pay. I don't believe in giving them a free ride. I don't claim to have any idea what that rate should be.
Another version of slave labor is not exactly the answer to absurd sentencing policies, the War on Drugs and the racist, anti-poor two tiered legal system. We already have prison industries, and there is the incentive of good behavior as measured by the prisons to reduce time served. None of this really gets at the redemptive potential of what was once called a "reformitory" or "penitentiary." Both terms refer to a theory of redemption, but I think our retributive justice ought to be replaced by something less interested in vengeance. There are people who need to be separated from society because we can do little or nothing to help them be decent human neighbors and citizens. There are a few whose crimes need to be made an example of, but I think that is about the abuse of power and not what scares or offends us emotionally. This is why I refuse to join those who want child rapists tortured. I want them kept away from children, but I have no idea why they are tempted to commit these crimes and I refuse to make my ignorance or their horror stories cause for rituals of violence. I would rather protect and care for the kids.
I would not see it as slave labor because the inmate would participate via his own free will. Maybe he would see it as his own attempt a redemption. Maybe he wants some extra cash. Maybe he just wants to spend some time in the sun. Or maybe to prepare himself for release. Either way, it might be a humane way to escape the doldrums of prison.
Some of these prisoners have no real skills to offer employers. We could house them in a barracks on the property during planting or harvesting season. Heck we could even give them the opportunity to build their own barracks from scratch and learn valuable skills. Kind of like a vocational school. The key here is that nothing is forced. The inmate would decide if this program was right for him.
Regarding the violent offenders. I would agree. Just keep them away from the people they can hurt. No work release for them.
So, the judge or prosecuter has a friend/ kid/ buddy who needs a kidney/ heart/ liver. Suddenly, miraculously, a large number of potential good matches get arrested... I mean, that is an impossible scenario.
As for using prison labor working the fields, and once again, it amounts to a form of slavery. An amazing coincidence of higher numbers of arrests and convictions around harvest time. Threats of violence against those who'd consider not working in the fileds... I mean, again, impossible scenario.
Oh wait, that is exactly the way things use to work.
We could also sentence them to serve on ships at sea. The press gang empties the jails and drunks are on the way to Shanghai. Such ugliness!
And rigel, the Right gets all upset at the idea that inmates might take college courses and be able to qualify for a profession after serving their time. They have no problem with torture and abuse, but anything that might turn someone around positively is considered coddling and offends these 'taxpayers.' They want to pile on the time, not give prisoners a break.
Real vocational and college education and real work training for real jobs are liberal ideas, and we have supported community placement and job experience, just not unpaid and wildly underpaid labor competing with regular labor. Our comments have been about the practice of exploitation of prisoners for the profit of others justified as 'job training.' You know, all that rhetoric about learning the meaning of hard work and responsibility presuming that prisoners are lazy bums who just need to have more discipline. Can't let the slaves read and learn because they will revolt.
I can see how you might have meant well, but this idea would need a lot of work to make it be fair and positive instead of exploitation.
Honestly, your idea scares the shit out of me. With the existing influence of private money on our public justice system, with judges and prison lobbiests colluding, it won't be long before addicts and petty thieves will be parted out like cheveys.
Such ideas are so morally myopic as to induce wonder and doubt about humanity at large.
A better idea is to end free trade, require domestic laws for federal and local government, and strengthen unions, making American workers better off. Also dump do time, do drugs laws, and make marijuana legal.
Stronger middle class, and fewer people going to prison, equals less trouble with prison overcrowding.
Hopefully, one of the prisoners will offer a brain transplant for Rigel...
Honestly, your idea scares the shit out of me. With the existing influence of private money on our public justice system, with judges and prison lobbiests colluding, it won't be long before addicts and petty thieves will be parted out like cheveys.
Such ideas are so morally myopic as to induce wonder and doubt about humanity at large.
We can't be scared in to inaction. Sometimes real change means real boldness. Is there a possibility for abuse and corruption? Of course there is. But isn't this the case with everything? We do have to be careful, but we must not be paralized with fear and worry over what might happen in a worst case scenario. If we insist on perfection and zero risk, then we condemn ourselves to the status quo.
Your point in not possible. How could "addicts and petty thieves be parted out like cheveys" if the program is voluntary? We are giving them a choice. I am a firm believer that choice is good. An opportunity to be productive and earn some money. There are no choices or money with slavery. We cannot be frozen with fear.
In prison, where the threat of death and violence are the tools used by the authorities to control the inmates, how is anything voluntary? If a warden had a child who needed a transplant there will be no choice. You are proposing an entirely evil and repellent policy to address prison overcrowding, when we can just change sentencing guidelines to reduce the number of inmates.
Is it really a choice though? Whether you wanted to work or not, could you really say no to getting outside and earning time off of your sentence. That would not really be a "choice". Even if they were doing the work that most people don't want to do you would have millions bitching about "convicts" taking away American jobs the way they complain about the illegal aliens right now. It would be just another political tool of sorts.
Is it really a choice though? Whether you wanted to work or not, could you really say no to getting outside and earning time off of your sentence. That would not really be a "choice". Even if they were doing the work that most people don't want to do you would have millions bitching about "convicts" taking away American jobs the way they complain about the illegal aliens right now. It would be just another political tool of sorts.
Probably right. Can't do this because people might complain. Well people will complain anyway. In case you haven't noticed, thats what we do. We should sit on our hands and do nothing. Make no attempt to make things better because we cannot guarantee that it will be perfect. We need to live in fear of any progressive change. Leave em in their cells to rot. Good call.
Is it really a choice though? Whether you wanted to work or not, could you really say no to getting outside and earning time off of your sentence. That would not really be a "choice". Even if they were doing the work that most people don't want to do you would have millions bitching about "convicts" taking away American jobs the way they complain about the illegal aliens right now. It would be just another political tool of sorts.
Probably right. Can't do this because people might complain. Well people will complain anyway. In case you haven't noticed, thats what we do. We should sit on our hands and do nothing. Make no attempt to make things better because we cannot guarantee that it will be perfect. We need to live in fear of any progressive change. Leave em in their cells to rot. Good call.
Hey, I appreciate that you're throwing ideas at the wall but not all of them stick. I don't know which is better, leaving them in their cells to rot or returning to the good ol' chain gang days of yore.
Is it really a choice though? Whether you wanted to work or not, could you really say no to getting outside and earning time off of your sentence. That would not really be a "choice". Even if they were doing the work that most people don't want to do you would have millions bitching about "convicts" taking away American jobs the way they complain about the illegal aliens right now. It would be just another political tool of sorts.
Probably right. Can't do this because people might complain. Well people will complain anyway. In case you haven't noticed, thats what we do. We should sit on our hands and do nothing. Make no attempt to make things better because we cannot guarantee that it will be perfect. We need to live in fear of any progressive change. Leave em in their cells to rot. Good call.
Hey, I appreciate that you're throwing ideas at the wall but not all of them stick. I don't know which is better, leaving them in their cells to rot or returning to the good ol' chain gang days of yore.
As I said, its a radical concept. Way, way out of the box. But I think it may have promise.
Only if you go wildly liberal and learn something about what has been advocated instead of repeating the chain gang, prison industry and low end job training crap that has been all too common. We could end prison overcrowding by getting out of the War on Drugs and ashcanning the "three strikes, you're out" vindictive sentencing. But that would never fly with the angry cons of punishment for profit.
Only if you go wildly liberal and learn something about what has been advocated instead of repeating the chain gang, prison industry and low end job training crap that has been all too common. We could end prison overcrowding by getting out of the War on Drugs and ashcanning the "three strikes, you're out" vindictive sentencing. But that would never fly with the angry cons of punishment for profit.
Sure or we could do the easy thing and enforce current law. 25% of California's prison space is occupied by illegal aliens. After they complete their sentences, boot them out of the country and start enforcing immigration laws. That would save billions.
The trouble is that we spend our hard-earned tax dollars to feed them, provide them with health and dental care and they do nothing but nothing but screw around and act surley. But enough about Congress. The prison system is bad too.
Yes, but the latter stand a chance of rehabilitaion.
After they complete their sentences, boot them out of the country
Don't we do this now?
After they complete their sentences, boot them out of the country
Don't we do this now?
I don't know that they get sent home. I hope so. The bigger problem is that we let them in totally unregulated in the first place. We don't distinguish between rapists, killers or thieves. The welcome mat is out to all.
Uh... "Prison over crowding" is not the same as "prison overcrowding".
btw - it's been tried, last year. It didn't work. Apparently you cannot pay people enough to be slaves -they would rather be prisoners.
Back in the early 1980's a strange thing happened in California. The recidivism rate jumped from 15% to 85%. The cause was very quickly traced - CA had instituted mandatory sentencing (effectively doubling sentences) and cancelled its GED program. Apparently if you throw someone in jail for a year and teach him how to read when he gets out he goes straight, but when you lock him up for two years and then throw him out with no skills he gets angry and desperate and does stupid things.
What did CA do when reality stepped up and kicked them in the ass? Passed 3 strikes and made it worse.
And btw - if you're a farmer, which would you prefer, $2.50 an hour for an experienced (illegal) immigrant, or $5 an hour for an untrained and resentful criminal? And if you have that choice, what happens when even a legal worker demands a raise to, let's say, minimum wage?
Uh... "Prison over crowding" is not the same as "prison overcrowding".
I'm not really sure what your point is? Please explain.
Can't you hear the sirens? It's the grammer police pulling you over. (For once I actually spelled that wrong on purpose).