Re-elect Capt. Obama

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Re-elect Capt. Obama

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elgiabo
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Quote elgiabo:

Re-elect Capt. Obama

http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix3/Cartoon_of_download.jpg

BTW........This isn't a Libertarian free market message board here on The Thom Hartmann Program

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Sprinklerfitter
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Sep. 1, 2011 6:49 am

Osassinator's re-election is apparently in full propaganda mode with the phony bullshit about unemployment and the "improving" economy.

http://www.thedailybell.com/3581/Anthony-Wile-Elite-Campaign-to-Re-Elect-Obama-in-Full-Swing

bullwinkle
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Dec. 28, 2011 2:31 pm

There has been no recovery.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-real-economic-picture-2.html

bullwinkle
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Dec. 28, 2011 2:31 pm
There has been no recovery
Too bad the whole rest of the world isn't privy to this special knowledge.

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Art
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I guess I am missing something, there is a recovery?

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Semi permeable ...
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Ask the unemployed mother and father with 2 kids that are about to lose their home. Ask the unemployed factory worker family man that has given up on finding a job and his benefits have run out so he is no longer even counted as unemployed. Ask the single mother of 3 who is working part time and has to choose between paying the rent or utilities or buying food for the kids this week. Ask the couple who worked for 35 years and saved for retirement and it has been stolen or embezzled. Ask the out of work construction worker whose wife died and he lost their home so he and his 2 kids are sleeping in the car. Ask the small business owner whose business is off 50% and overhead has gone up 50% due to rising utility costs, high fuel prices, higher property taxes, higher government fees and permits. Ask the college grad with $50,000 in student loan debt and can't find a job.

In fact ask nearly anyone (except a bureaucrat or Oterminator supporter) and they will tell you that the economy sucks.

The unemployed rate has gone down due to people giving up and lost their benefits or taken a part-time job just to feed his kids. They don't count those.

bullwinkle
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Dec. 28, 2011 2:31 pm

The people who make these official judgments generally use objective eveidence. (Ya know. Charts, graphs, tables, numbers. That kind of stuff).

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Bullwinkle, were you to blame those who have stood in the way of the recovery and who have constantly presented more of the same crap as the answer to the disaster created by that crap, you would have a shred of credibility in your lame post.

Obama will get re-elected if there is any attention to these 'minor' details. Romney is Wall St. on steroids. His rhetoric defies statistics, and even if Obama's recovery is tepid rather than what Progressive policies would have produced, what he represents is totally dogmatic. Stop being an idiot if you can.

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Art- So if you too are suggesting a judgement then I assume you will be using what yuou suggest is required of others. The last time we tried to have a conversation about objective evidence we did not get very far ya know

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Quote bullwinkle:

Ask the unemployed mother and father with 2 kids that are about to lose their home. Ask the unemployed factory worker family man that has given up on finding a job and his benefits have run out so he is no longer even counted as unemployed. Ask the single mother of 3 who is working part time and has to choose between paying the rent or utilities or buying food for the kids this week. Ask the couple who worked for 35 years and saved for retirement and it has been stolen or embezzled. Ask the out of work construction worker whose wife died and he lost their home so he and his 2 kids are sleeping in the car. Ask the small business owner whose business is off 50% and overhead has gone up 50% due to rising utility costs, high fuel prices, higher property taxes, higher government fees and permits. Ask the college grad with $50,000 in student loan debt and can't find a job.

In fact ask nearly anyone (except a bureaucrat or Oterminator supporter) and they will tell you that the economy sucks.

The unemployed rate has gone down due to people giving up and lost their benefits or taken a part-time job just to feed his kids. They don't count those.

You are right bullwinkle and all of these tragedies can be attributed to the policies of the republicans. You know, the one's that think that having a refrigerator is a luxury that welfare recipients should not have. The one's who want to completely gut the social safety nets we have in place to help those losing their jobs and starving in the streets. Come to think of it, doesn't the champion of the libertarians want to eliminate these evil government practices as well. Yet you are laying blame at the feet of a democratic president who has fought to keep policies in place that will help the needy and down trodden and who has yet to even finish his first term in office. Classy.

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Bush_Wacker
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Art- So if you too are suggesting a judgement then I assume you will be using what yuou suggest is required of others. The last time we tried to have a conversation about objective evidence we did not get very far ya know
I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours. Mine's real easy to get to.

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Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I forgot Art you have a magic number that you cannot or will not explain the significance of . The numbers of the unemployed underemployed and discouraged are not significantly improved. Those facing foreclosure are not seeing relief. CEO to worker ratios are not improving. Overall wages are down. Cost of education at the college levels is at an all time high and primary schools have had their budgets slashed Housing prices remain flat at best. But I am sure you have a fact that renders all this uselss or at least out of touch with the bigger reality

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SP, work hard for an electible or revolutionary future, but please do not pester those who see the difference between Obama and his opponents in the real political world. We can agree that the leader of the American Empire is constrained and is "the emperor" of the deathstar that America has become. Long term vision cannot blind us to short term realities. I will not punish others for my emotional satisfaction.

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DRC With all due respect i have said nothing about Obama and whatever role he is playing. All I did was question on whether there has been a recovery and whether Art can participate in a real discussion about some matters. I do understand that righties here will jump on the divisions within the left and for the most part i find their agreement with me disingenious and opportunistic to say the least. But I am sorry to say I will not resign my differences just because the rights nature as garbage collector for any fact they think may suit them is on display for us

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All I did was question on whether there has been a recovery and whether Art can participate in a real discussion about some matters.
In order to discuss whether or not we are in a recovery, we have to discuss the numbers. "Economic recovery" has a concrete, objective definition. You can present us with all the apocalyptic story-telling that you want, but these narratives don't really address whether we are in a bonafide recovery or not. That, in my opinion would be a "real discussion".

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Sure using the standard analytic perpetuated by the institutions the analytics are designed to protect. Most of the issues I alluded to ,such as unemployment, cost of education,and the rest, are quite real and have some real numbers attached to them do they not? But as long as you can somehow attach the wealth of the one percent to the overall wealth of the nation and then claim see we as a nation are just fine you can imagine you have stated the real truth, I suppose you can claim a hysterical objective high ground of some sort

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But as long as you can somehow attach the wealth of the one percent to the overall wealth of the nation
Ah, I assume you are referring to the increasing value of America's Net National household Wealth and what that means. I'm encouraged that you understand the significance in terms of wealth inequality.
Most of the issues I alluded to ,such as unemployment, cost of education,and the rest, are quite real and have some real numbers attached to them do they not?
Yes. They certainly do have some real numbers attached to them. Most of those numbers are not traditionally counted in the measure of an economic recovery. Perhaps we need a new index. Something on the order of a "Gross National Happiness index". There is such a thing.

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Ah, I assume you are referring to the increasing value of America's Net National household Wealth and what that means. I'm encouraged that you understand the significance in terms of wealth inequality.

SPM replies- Well good I am glad you acknowledge this as well, unless you are instead trying to make smarmy points with a seemingly patronizing attittude

Art said

Yes. They certainly do have some real numbers attached to them. Most of those numbers are not traditionally counted in the measure of an economic recovery. Perhaps we need a new index. Something on the order of a "Gross National Happiness index". There is such a thing.

SPM replies- Yes I am aware of this, and i am begining to believe we are not necessarily so opposed to one another. If you feel compelled to equate economic recovery with the strict defenition applied by the mainstream economists that is fine. But to the degree such tendencies in semantics allow the public to be deluded about the "truth" about our economic realities, I oppose them. I am not clear whether you are perpetuating such myths simply for the sake of semantic correctness, or for something more diabolical that us conspiracist types are always seeing behind every corner.

So if your claim is that this is the definition according to mainstream economics then fine. But it is my opinion is that we would be better off to distinguish how different the various mainstream statistics are from what they purport to represent rather than simply repeating them without such a distinction

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Semi, Liberals have all kinds of disagreements about President Obama's performance in the face of a devastating economic near-collapse. FDR didn't do much better in the early years of his administration. In either case, nothing improves until there is a genuine economic recovery (in the "semantically correct " sense). I don't mind if we want to bemoan all the horrible things that the Republicans have visited on us, but it sheds little light on what our prospects actually are. Everything from here on depends on Government policy. I would say almost exclusively tax policy. The electorate gave FDR a Democratic Congress. Even then, it took him years to fully commit to Keynsian ideas. It was those ideas that led to unprecedented wealth equality in America.

With everything negative we can say about Obama, I'm not sure he hasn't done a pretty fair job, given the lousy Congress we have given him. (I see Obama has, once again, disappointed me by appointing Monsato former executive and lobbyist as food and drug czar. There is a possibiity that the post is just throwing a bone to the right and that it has no real power. We don't know).

All the ills you complain about are today's reality and will take years to correct. Whether that ever happens depends on the Presidential and Congressional environment. Keep complaining, but at least acknowlege where we stand today. We are in the beginning of an economic recovery.

I thought DRC expressed it beautifully:

Quote DRC: It really matters that we not ignore the pathology that is the Right while we advocate for real change and real democracy. I will vote for Obama. I will dream of voting for Kucinich or someone like him. I will not confuse the two, but if all I have as a choice is a GOPimp, I will not forget how many people will die for my emotional relief. Disgust is a cheap emotion in this case.
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I would also suggest that the issue is not "economic recovery" as much as it is "democratic recovery." We are diverted from the essential issue of our citizen participation in power by the mumbo jumbo of the economists and those who promise bread and circuses instead of community. Clinton's opportunistic and triangular election strategy would have been worth the candle had he done anything with his eight years. Robert Reich resigned in disgust for good reason.

Obama is definitely a step up from Clinton in tone, and he may be able to emulate FDR in a second term, although not having the threat of a third could make the analogy imperfect by itself. Obama also has an empire and a failed foreign policy FDR did not have.

Progressives would do well to get back to democracy and politics while helping communities find ways to survive the Corporate World Order. Korten's formula for successful development begins with "indigenous ownership" of anything and includes a post-industrial emphasis on "artisanal" means of wealth creation. This is a way of dealing with green solutions and the value of human labor and creativity in finding the answers rather than hoping that "technology" will be dropped down from heaven.

If you are hoping to motivate people to get busy doing what needs to be done, don't spend so much time bewailing the impotence of the Democrats and the duopoly other than to focus attention where it needs to be placed. I do not think it works in national electoral politics, but Green Party and Progressive alternatives at local and regional levels can be an effective use of elections. It is not about becoming Obama fans, but it is about assessing whether the criticism leads anywhere positive.

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Art- In all actuality my interest on this thread is really about describing the economy, and in particular describing the implications of what recovery signifies. Quite honestly i have little interest in evaluating Obama. i guess that is pretty cynical but at least i am not one that goes on Obama bashing tirades. i will argue the frames which we use to evaluate his performance and the conditions that guide our political landscape in general, but the intrigue of day to day Washington and trying to identify all of the administration secret strategies is just kind of surreal to me.

So when i discuss evaluating our present economic condition , i think i can say, to the best of my objective capabilities, that my evaluation is not tied to an opinion of Mr Obama

DRC- Again I fail to understand what i have said in this thread regarding Obama and the Dems. I suppose I have said some unflattering things about them elsewhere, but I really do not think I spend much time with the issue. if you could quote something it might help me understand your objections. That being said much of what you had to say before your final paragraph was spot on

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Quote Sprinklerfitter:
Quote elgiabo:

Re-elect Capt. Obama

http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix3/Cartoon_of_download.jpg

BTW........This isn't a Libertarian free market message board here on The Thom Hartmann Program

Ever watch Thom's show? He does not censor opinions. Even when he disagrees. That is why I watch.

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rigel1
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Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am

I watch him all the time when I'm at the camp. I'll be back up there starting the first of april to mid november when we close back up. We have the dish network there where at the house we only have cable and he's not on our cable outlet. I guess I could watch him on the computer but I'm usually too busy doing other more important things like reading all the bullshit filled posts by you wingnut trolls. I'm glad you watch thoms show, now if you will only learn from it you'll be a better person.

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Sprinklerfitter
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FEMA camp:?

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DRC wrote: Obama is definitely a step up from Clinton in tone, and he may be able to emulate FDR in a second term, although not having the threat of a third could make the analogy imperfect by itself.

poly replies: The party of FDR went extinct decades ago. It exists in name only. The standard of FDR is being raised by the Justice Party, not by the Dems or their wolf in sheep's clothing.

QUOTE: "The American people are disgusted with Congress, hold President Barack Obama in low regard and are ready for fundamental change. They understand that voting for Democrats and Republicans simply reaffirms a failed system and accomplishes little more than moving its players around.

On jobs, Obama’s speech and job performance have been pathetic, Anderson said. Getting done everything he says he wants to do wouldn’t come close to meeting the needs of the nation’s working people.

“How does he, with a straight face, talk about getting jobs back to the U.S. without even mentioning free trade agreements and the need to significantly renegotiate those agreements to put them in better balance in terms of worker rights and environmental protections?” he asked.

The answers don’t even have to be creative, Anderson said. Obama can hearken back to Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s Civilian Conservation Corps and Works Progress Administration programs. He could put people to work rebuilding the nation’s infrastructure – bringing every one of its buildings over 30 years old up to LEED certified standards, for example.

“He’d be hiring hundreds of thousands of people, putting them to work, reducing energy usage and ending up with a far improved federal infrastructure,” he said.

As president, Obama should make the case to the American people the way FDR did on Social Security.

“FDR went out and fought for Social Security because it was the right thing to do,” he said. “He didn’t throw it out there and let Congress fight over the little pieces and end up with this horrific compromise.”

Full article here: http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02/07/rocky-anderson-overthrow-the-dictatorship-of-money/

The standard bearer of the Democratic Party of FDR and its ideals isn't within the Democratic Party...and hasn't been for many decades. I'll probably vote the Justice Party and for the former Mayor of Salt Lake City,.I won't waste my vote voting for more of what I don't want..I won't support either wing of the Corporate Party.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Quote Semi permeable memebrain:

FEMA camp:?

NO.......we have two camps, places, houses or what ever you want to call them very close to the lake but not on the lake. The corp won't allow any building on the lake which is fine with me. We have our own website for the camps....Wildridge.org....I think. Find the one at Patoka Lake in Southern Indiana at you're at the right place. 720 sites in there and it's like a little city of its own. 24 hour security on a gated community with a club house, pool and everything else for kids and most of it is open year around. This isn't a place for high rollers but most on there are retired to middle class working folks. We've been there for a long time and look forward to going back every year. The 10 lane boat ramp we use most of the time for the pontoon is about 1 1/2 miles at the most by road. As the crow flies it's about half of that or less. When I take my fishing boat out I generally go to less crowded ramps in the 10mph areas of the lake. It's a very pretty lake and the water is very clean. Info about it is on the web too.

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Sprinklerfitter
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It was a joke Sprinklerfitter, but it sounds like a nice place

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Poly, Obama could not get any of that past this Congress and you know it. Attack the problem, not just the prisoner of power. I am not here to say that incrementalism or working within the system will be anywhere near enough, but I refuse to beat up on the better while giving the worse a pass just because we know and do not expect better from them. Of course Obama cannot reclaim the New Deal Democrats from what Truman did to sell it out, much less what came later. The Democrats did not create the American Empire even if they went along with it.

We are always more disappointed in those we hope might do something than in those we know will do evil.

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DRC
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

The cartoon isn't even clever. It lacks imagination and it is so predictable that this would come from the conservative character assasination machine that its downright mundane. It wasn't Capt. Obama that steered the ship of state onto the rocks, it was Capt. Alcoholic er, um, I mean Capt. Bush aided by his compliant Republican accomplices in Congress who allowed Wall Street to plunder the wealth of the middle class and thereby crash the economy. What is Obama's fault is not beginning his term with a sweeping investigation into the criminal behavior on Wall Street and in the Bush Administration.

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Quote mdhess:

The cartoon isn't even clever. It lacks imagination and it is so predictable that this would come from the conservative character assasination machine that its downright mundane. It wasn't Capt. Obama that steered the ship of state onto the rocks, it was Capt. Alcoholic er, um, I mean Capt. Bush aided by his compliant Republican accomplices in Congress who allowed Wall Street to plunder the wealth of the middle class and thereby crash the economy. What is Obama's fault is not beginning his term with a sweeping investigation into the criminal behavior on Wall Street and in the Bush Administration.

Your last sentence is my biggest gripe with Obama. If the shoe was on the other foot the repugnuts would have spent billions investigating the dems. Just look at how they went after clinton over a BJ. Who ever said crime doesn't pay was wrong. The events around 9/11 need to redone as well by outside investigators not insiders like the last one.

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Sprinklerfitter
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While I would dope slap the cons about impeachment and hang Cheney as part of the vet parade to honor those who served in his illegal war, I don't want tit for tat with incivility. I may disagree with Obama's purple haze, but the idea that setting a higher tone and avoiding the reactionaries 'justifications' about partisanship is terrible is not so. I can disagree about holding the war criminals accountable in principle, but I have to wonder if it would not have been taken as partisan payback instead of justice.

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Quote polycarp2:

The answers don’t even have to be creative, Anderson said. Obama can hearken back to Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s Civilian Conservation Corps and Works Progress Administration programs. He could put people to work rebuilding the nation’s infrastructure – bringing every one of its buildings over 30 years old up to LEED certified standards, for example.

Building roads so that Mexican trucks can burn Saudi oil to transport Chinese goods across the fruited plain isn't going to help much.

As you mentioned the key is trade agreements.

chilidog
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

One day when the repugnuts get back into the white house(hopefully never) you'll see partianship like never before especially if they can weasel their way back in this year. There's only one way to deal with people like that and throwing the rotten apple or apples back in the barrel isn't it. They have been raging a cultural war against the middle class the last 30 years and it's time we elected progressives that will push back and hard instead of going along for the ride to the bottom. I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen either.

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