Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels took his state backwards on Wednesday – signing legislation to make Indiana the 23rd “right-to-work” state in the nation. It’s the first state in ten years to go right-to-work and also the first state in the nation’s manufacturing belt to adopt a right-to-work law, which starves labor unions of much-needed funding.
So what can workers in Indiana expect now? First off – lower wages. It’s really right-to-work FOR LESS – as the average worker makes more than $5,000 less in wages a year in right-to-work-for-less states versus free-bargaining states. They can also expect less healthcare – as 21% fewer workers on average receive employee-sponsored healthcare in right-to-work-for-less states.
And finally – workers can expect more workplace injuries. Without unions to ensure safe working conditions – right-to-work-FOR-LESS states experience 51% more workplace injuries and deaths. So the only winners here are transnational CEOs who don’t give a damn about their workers – and don’t give a damn about democracy. That’s what unions are – democracy in the workplace – and they are just as essential to creating a stable middle class as democracy in our government. So Republican Governor Mitch Daniels didn’t just declare war on unions in Indiana – he also declared war on the middle class.
Comments
The race to the bottom continues thanks to the regressive party of dumbf..ks in this state.....70% of the people wanted to put it on the ballot to be voted on but those that hate workers and their rights decided to hurry up and ram it through before the super bowl. I hope the traffic is tied up so bad in Indy this sunday no one goes anywhere....One day when the majority are tired of taking shit from these regressive idiots they'll do something about it. Daniels is just doing to this state what he helped do to this country when he worked for by far the dumbest president we've ever had...Surely everyone hasn't forgot the appointed one and what he left us all?........Chuckle
Here's a little reminder in case you forgot.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ux3DKxxFoM....It's still funny as heck to watch.
You can still be a member of a union and be in a right to work state. The right to work state opens up union shops to non-union employees. So you do not have a group of people confiscating a portion of your labor to support their political views if you agree with them or not while making the union leadership rich enough to part of the one percent.
The sad fact is that at one point in time the unions were a necessary in the countries history, however, the current state and federal laws make the unions obsolete. The unions today do nothing but drive the cost of labor so high that it makes the U.S. none competitive with foreign products. Now some of this can be countered by tariffs and import taxes.
If the unions were truly out for the workers benefits the union leaders would not be millionaires or billionaires. They would use a portion of the dues to support those workers that have been laid off as a supplement to unemployment. This could be done through investments into the companies that employ union labor.
OK,show me the billionaire labor leaders to back up your pr. The labor laws of the US are very anti-labor, and under the GOPimps even the few that are good are not enforced. Union busting is a billion dollar business, and BAIN makes money screwing workers out of pensions.
Were unions 'obsolete,' there would not be the GOPimp campaign against them. They would just be allowed to wither and die. Have you read the thread about gated communities and dues compared to Right to Work for less? Try answering that one before you repeat a lot of ignorant nonsense like the post #3 here.
What is obsolete is the Wall St. Myth that vampire capitalism creates wealth for all. Small business is socialism, and we are all for it. We are also for the laborer being worth his/her hire, but quoting Scripture has been given a bad name by the Public Christians on the Right. Jesus was a Progressive.
I will look for that thread and check it out.
The billionaire might have been a stretch but trumka is worth hundreds of millions of dollars along with a lot of other union leaders. trumka gave himself a 44 percent raise over the last few years do you think the rank and file of the union get that much money.
What is the total union membership in the U.S. I believe it is some place around 7 percent of the total employed population. this number is way down from the hey day of the unions so they are on a slow death spiral. the 7 percent are trying to control what the other 83 percent of the workers in the country are doing. through the wagner act the federal government gave the unions the right to use force to consifacte a portion of your labor in order to benefit the leaders of the union.
small business is not socialism it is capitalism, small business are privately owned and operated. the owner invested his time and capital inorder to grow his business and make more money for himself and his family.
socialism is the social ownership of all means of production and a group control of the economy. socialsim leades to poverty and missery see greece for an example.
Jesus wanted the masses to take care of the people less fortunate then themselves, however, he wanted you to do it because it is the right thing to do, not forced to do it at the end of the roman spear. modern day example is tax law welfare system. the government uses force to take what you have earned in order to give it to those who have not earned the money.
Look Unions screwed themselves by voting for Demcorats that always betray them to the Globalists.
I don't know how many union people mindlessly vote Democrat despite all the evidence of them going to Bilderberg meetings and trying to bring American into neo-feudalism.
People just don't bother to educate themselves about anything then wonder why they get governed by their inferiors.
I've heard it from union people all my life of how they support Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden just cuz they are Democrats. The same people who work against them at Bilderberg meetings.
Unions have doomed themselves by their own ignorance.
The GOP. The party of scab labor.
if you do your job and do it well you will not need lawyers to represent you in any dealings with the company managment. I worked for a union shop once all of the problems I had while at that shop were caused by the union leadership. To the point I had to kick them out of the meeting with the company managment to address the union caused problems.
the expense comes in when you get caught drinking on the job, sleeping on the job, or knowling destroying company property all of which I have seen union employees do. I have heard the shop stewart tell the new guy to not work so hard and to slow down cause he is making the other guys look bad. I have seen the unions load the job so heavy with un-needed employees that for every one that was needed three were watching him work.
yes the unions have done some good but they have done some bad as well.
liberals Ideas so good they have to be forced on you
One thing you need to learn jones NO UNION I know of is going to hire a non-union type to begin with and let them become free loaders on the backs of others..
Has your stupid ass ever heard of trade unions throughout the United States? I was in mine for 36 years before retiring. I know of no union offical in my union or the UA who is rich as you claim. They don't make that much more than a journeyman does. I know that for a fact. Your claim is pure ignorance and I can only imagine where you get that kind of crap from.
People like you with what I call scab mentality will do more damage to the working folks in this country than any union ever did or will do. How your types can enjoy seeing others wages suffer says a lot about you personally. I've seen enough of your posts already to know you're another ignorant wingnut troll that brings the same old worn out talking points here. My guess is you get your shit from where the rest of the wingnut trolls get theirs from and that is from the idiots on the radio or the idiots on fixed news. You need to go back in time and see who the first major corporation was that started outsourcing jobs in this country and who they were buddies with in the white house. Maybe you'll learn something usefull for a change.
Right to work doesn't work for the average wages earners since you've always had the right to work for less. Right to work is just another way to slowly destroy the middle class in this country who made it what it was. Your type of mentality does nothing but quicken the pace to the bottom.
Mr. Art summed it up pretty well about your kind.
Maybe you should look into what the leaders are paid and where they live. I will guarantee the national leaders in Washington are pulling in 300,000 to 400,000 a year minimum while flying around the country in a union provided jet.
as far as Union shops not hiring non union types to begin with or freeloaders on the backs of others. that is the whole argument to overthrow or defeat the right to work legislation along with it will drive down wages. Do you honestly think that the average electrician is worth 70 to 80 dollars an hour? Or that your Washington leadership gets paid the same amount as a journeyman.
With the unions, trying to lock down every job site as a union site you need right to work laws so the people that do not want to part of a union can get a job.
But than again the unions believe that you can’t have a job unless you are in the union but you can’t get into the union with out having a job.
Liberalism ideas so good they have to be forced on you
Here is a paragraph from an article talking about high paid union leaders.
Another handsomely paid union leader is Gus Bevona, who heads a 6,500-member New York local of the Service Employees, for which he is paid $422,727. Mike Riley, head of the Southern California Teamsters Joint Council 42, was making more than $400,000 until Teamster reform president Ron Carey eliminated an entire level of Teamster officials. Riley reportedly still makes about $250,000 from his local union and the joint council.
What I am saying in the next paragraph is that the unions say that the passage of right to work will force them to hire freeloaders, while in the next breathe saying that they will never hire freeloaders. Which is it that you do not want to be forced to do it or that you would never do it anyway?
No the government does not set the wages unless it is a Davis bacon wage job, or it is a public union where you have politicians beholden to the unions to get elected and than sitting down with the same unions to negotiate a new contract. However the point is that at some point no matter how skilled the worker is the wage will get so high that the worker is not longer worth that in salary.
You are correct the government should not stack the deck against the unions and it should not stack the deck for the unions. We should repeal the Wagner act and all other pro union legislation that way we would be on a fair playing field.
I suppose that could come from an article of some sort, but there isn't much there go on.
Let me help educate your mis-informed ass.....
First....I don't know of any electrican that makes that per hour any where in the US. If you meant to say that's what the company charges per man per hour for each journeyman you would be in the ball park.
Second.....This comment is pure ignorance on your part..........You said........With the unions, trying to lock down every job site as a union site you need right to work laws so the people that do not want to part of a union can get a job........Now there is no such thing..period......Have you ever heard of a bidding process for jobs and how it's illegal to rig bids to favor one contractor over another? In your case it's obvious you haven't or you wouldn't have made such a stupid ass comment.
Third....I know what kind of money our leaders make because I get a financial report every year. If we don't like what they are doing we can vote them out. Try that with a non-union company and see what happens to you next. I belong to a skilled trade union not manufacturing. What those other unions pay their leaders is their business and damn sure isn't none of yours. Besides they have thousands more members than ours. Our union has about 12,000 members nationwide and our dues help cover the great insurance we have and retirement for past members who have put their time in. It also cover the apprentices who go to class during their 5 year apprenticeship. Since I'm now retired I sure in the hell don't mind the $3,800 plus a month I get. In two more years when my wife retires from the hospital and gets her pension and we both will get our SS too unless people with your kind of mentality in government try and steal that too. Hopefully we will still be able to make ends meet.
If you don't want to pay your fair share for living in the greatest country on this planet I'd suggest you take your ass and move to a place that fits your mentality. You would probably be right at home in one of the many counties in Africa where there is no government or law and order.
You really need to stick to a subject you know something about because when it comes to unions and right to work laws you haven't a clue to what the hell you are talking about.
I'd also suggest you spend more time starring at a blank tv screen and leaving the radio off. You'll be smarter in the end for doing it.
Because they don't believe that politicians and their cronies in the unions should dictate pricing in the labor market.
In contrast, right-to-work states believe that supply, demand, and economic realities should dictate pay rather than quid pro quo unsustainable politically motivated schemes of political favors for bribes and special interest votes.
Indeed, we tried this 'politician becomes the pay czar or police in the economy' scheme starting in the Soviet Union in 1917.
And guess what, it failed.
Politicians and political interests cannot be trusted to determine prices in a modern economy involving trillions of transactions per day. Even the most well-intentioned poltician (if any ever existed) fails utterly. Equally important is that surrendering this power always breeds corruption in government.
I haven't a single problem with the higher salaries of some Union leaders. They certainly aren't out of line with their responsibilities and definitely not in the ballpark with CEO salaries. Why would anybody care if the membership is content? What does it have to do with non-union people? For that matter, what's wrong workers voluntarily paying these salaries to a leader that they feel is worth it? Are we feeling a little envious because we aren't valued to the same extent?
Do you have any frickin idea how labor rates come about in different markets around this country? I'd say you and the other wingnuts around here don't have a frickin clue.
Right to work bullshit laws only exist for one purpose and that is to drive wages down down and fucking down. When you have no one (UNIONS) that fight for all labor to keep wages up care to guess what is going to happen in the future with pay for everyone? You ANTI-UNION hardheads need to get that through your thick skulls. You can start from texas and go east and see what low wages have created for the majority of those folks who live in poorer states. This is what right to work will do to my state in the coming years if it's not over turned. Maybe you people want to live in a shit hole state like those down south but I'd perfer not too. When you destroy the UNIONS you will eventually destroy the working middle class and we all know what follows after that. Why some of you hate UNIONS so much who knows but without organized labor to fight for ALL wage earners the race to the bottom will continue at a faster pace. Is this really the kind of country you people want to live in?
Here is the dishonesty in these anti-union people's views. If there is a race to the bottom associated with this new law, if there a loss of wages and/or benefits over time, who pray tell will pay the workers' bills if their income is lowered or doesn't keep up with inflation. What if some workers no longer are able to receive health insurance from their employer and have no where else to turn but to Medicaid? The truth is that conservatives don't want others to have anything, not adequate compensation from a private sector employer, not from a public sector employer, and not from government assistance programs if jobs no longer provide the necessary resources to survive on.
I refer all you right to work for less idiots back to the gated community or homeowner association dues example where dues are assessed and paid to get benefits, and they are hardly voluntary although unions often have to represent free-loaders who refuse to join. The point is that homeowners get benefits from their dues, but it is even more true in the American labor market where the laws binding unions are ridiculous. Union busting is big business, and bosses who want to be tyrants love to kick labor as though the workers threatened their authority. Bosses like this ought to be kicked hard in the nuts by the people who make them wealthy.
If you are offended by the executive salaries you quote for labor leaders, try the much higher "pay" that goes to people who do far less of value. Corporate is filled with overpaid drones in management and then there are the CEO's. It ought not be very hard to find competent talent from labor unions or overseas to do what these Peter Principle geeks get golden parachutes for doing badly. I might be willing to level all pay if corporate were not so much worse, and those who complain about unions instead of management don't get it or just hate unions and labor.
Do you really want to argue that corporate determines value in its executive payoffs? I think politicians who are accountable to the people would do a much better job than any private sector megacorp. Of course, when Bain shows up to take their fees for bankrupting companies, that money is 'earned.'
Faith in the free market is a pipe dream. I prefer believing in reality.
I guess the case is made.
First....I don't know of any electrican that makes that per hour any where in the US. If you meant to say that's what the company charges per man per hour for each journeyman you would be in the ball park.
the IEBW rates are roughly 35 dollars per hour take home with another 35 dollars an hour for the retirement package A and B. so if a company is going to hire them they have to budget 120 dollars an hour to pay for the electrican.
Second.....This comment is pure ignorance on your part..........You said........With the unions, trying to lock down every job site as a union site you need right to work laws so the people that do not want to part of a union can get a job........Now there is no such thing..period......Have you ever heard of a bidding process for jobs and how it's illegal to rig bids to favor one contractor over another? In your case it's obvious you haven't or you wouldn't have made such a stupid ass comment.
yes the unions are trying to get every job to be a union job they even want into walmart. when I lived in Hawaii after the marine corps I went to a job site the GC told me I had to be in the union to get a job, I went to the union hall they told me I had to have a job to be allowed to enter the union.
Third....I know what kind of money our leaders make because I get a financial report every year. If we don't like what they are doing we can vote them out. Try that with a non-union company and see what happens to you next. I belong to a skilled trade union not manufacturing. What those other unions pay their leaders is their business and damn sure isn't none of yours. Besides they have thousands more members than ours. Our union has about 12,000 members nationwide and our dues help cover the great insurance we have and retirement for past members who have put their time in. It also cover the apprentices who go to class during their 5 year apprenticeship. Since I'm now retired I sure in the hell don't mind the $3,800 plus a month I get. In two more years when my wife retires from the hospital and gets her pension and we both will get our SS too unless people with your kind of mentality in government try and steal that too. Hopefully we will still be able to make ends meet.
your union leaders might not pay themselves as much as some union leaders do. however I thought the whole thing to the union is everyone get paid a good living wage for work performed and the leaders were from the rank and file. sounds like the rank and file get screwed and the leaders get big pay big benefits while you suckers work to support the lazy. your union dues do not go to your retirement plans they go to fund political campaigns and your leaders lifestyle. the employer who pays your salary pays your retirement benefits as well.
I will be able to make ends meet when I retire because I am responsible and save and invest money on my own, I do not need the union and the governmnet to come whip my arse for me so that I will be able to live when I retire.
name one law that the unions helped pass that has fundimentaly changed how work in the U.S. is done in the last 25 years?
In the last 25 years, the Reagan Revolution attack on labor has been the rule, so it is hard to find real labor progress in this regressive and reactionary period. Before that, you have everything from the weekend to protection from unsafe working conditions to pensions and healthcare. A lot of what you describe critical of your experience with unions is better understood as the product of hostile forces against unions. I doubt the job requirement for being a member was a union idea. If it was intended to prevent agitators and sabatoge, it could be about the 'guild.' We could easily deal with any problem with unions were the politics of union busting and 'right to work for less' not around.
If you are lucky enough to be able to get a fair price for your work, good on you. But to pretend that the workers are paid what they deserve while the bosses are robbed is myopic delusion. Management ought to want an organized workplace instead of being "massa" and able to kick workers around to prove who is boss. Countries with strong unions are doing better than we.
Businesses that have to have stakeholders on their boards cannot decide to move away from the workers and leave communities destitute for marginal increases in profitability for the investor class. I hope you read the post above about the homeowners association. The analogy is perfect and your case is baseless. Unions are not perfect. There can be abuses. But the abuses are far less than when bosses run amok or when predator finance runs the show. Unions are also democratic and you can hold the abusers accountable. If you need better labor laws to do so, we Progressives are there for you.
Good luck on your own. I know, when you fall from your perch you will be able to expect us to help you, unlike the attitude you have towards others in need. If you can take care of yourself, fine. But a lot of people cannot and we will not ignore them while we make you an icon. If you are among the wealthy whose unproductive capital needs to be returned to productivity, we will require you to pay taxes on the marginal wealth because it is the right thing to do. Like it or not, I could not care less.
I have read the thread about home owners assoc. and union dues. I live in a community with a home owners assoc. I hate it as soon as I can get out I am. the board is run by a bunch of retired union workers that had no power or say in their lives so now they are on the board they can force others to live as misserible as they are. the home owners assoc. board breaks their own rules on a regual basis while trying to tell me what kind of grass i can plant and how maany bushes I can have in my lawn, how many pets I can have, and how often I can have over night guests. the home owners assoc. is just another way to get people used to a communistic control just like a labor union.
liberalism ideas so good they have to be forced on you.
where are progressives progressing too?
your freedom to be you included my freedom to not support you.
I can see you're a good little puppet for whom ever your master is. Even got parroting the talking points down pat. So do you believe in equal rights for all or not? The question requires a yes or no not more talking points from another wingnut parrot.
To say that a labor union is "communistic control" would be the same as saying that IBM or General Mills or DuPont are communist communal corrporations, where anyone can become an investor at that hotbed of commie activity, the New York Stock Exchange. To desire a good income is o.k. by you for executives or owners of privately held businesses, but not by those who not in management. Corporate behavior is troubling in many respects.
A Wal Mart worker in Illionois set himself on fire in the parking lot. There have been several books written on both the business and labor practices of Wal Mart as well as the economic effects on local communities and even on the national economy. Professional academicians have done most of these studies. One warehouse employee found out that he was not being paid any overtime and quit.
America was founded on the idea of basic rights. Professionals such as lawyers and historians and others have studied what many people in this country are ignorant of due to their own intellectual failings: that working conditions were often poor and compensation inadequate.
Unions cannot and do not address all problems relating to employment. But a substantial number of people in this country according to a recent study are on shaky economic grounds if they were to experience some kind of financial emergency.
First....I don't know of any electrican that makes that per hour any where in the US. If you meant to say that's what the company charges per man per hour for each journeyman you would be in the ball park.
the IEBW rates are roughly 35 dollars per hour take home with another 35 dollars an hour for the retirement package A and B. so if a company is going to hire them they have to budget 120 dollars an hour to pay for the electrican.
Second.....This comment is pure ignorance on your part..........You said........With the unions, trying to lock down every job site as a union site you need right to work laws so the people that do not want to part of a union can get a job........Now there is no such thing..period......Have you ever heard of a bidding process for jobs and how it's illegal to rig bids to favor one contractor over another? In your case it's obvious you haven't or you wouldn't have made such a stupid ass comment.
yes the unions are trying to get every job to be a union job they even want into walmart. when I lived in Hawaii after the marine corps I went to a job site the GC told me I had to be in the union to get a job, I went to the union hall they told me I had to have a job to be allowed to enter the union.
Third....I know what kind of money our leaders make because I get a financial report every year. If we don't like what they are doing we can vote them out. Try that with a non-union company and see what happens to you next. I belong to a skilled trade union not manufacturing. What those other unions pay their leaders is their business and damn sure isn't none of yours. Besides they have thousands more members than ours. Our union has about 12,000 members nationwide and our dues help cover the great insurance we have and retirement for past members who have put their time in. It also cover the apprentices who go to class during their 5 year apprenticeship. Since I'm now retired I sure in the hell don't mind the $3,800 plus a month I get. In two more years when my wife retires from the hospital and gets her pension and we both will get our SS too unless people with your kind of mentality in government try and steal that too. Hopefully we will still be able to make ends meet.
your union leaders might not pay themselves as much as some union leaders do. however I thought the whole thing to the union is everyone get paid a good living wage for work performed and the leaders were from the rank and file. sounds like the rank and file get screwed and the leaders get big pay big benefits while you suckers work to support the lazy. your union dues do not go to your retirement plans they go to fund political campaigns and your leaders lifestyle. the employer who pays your salary pays your retirement benefits as well.
I will be able to make ends meet when I retire because I am responsible and save and invest money on my own, I do not need the union and the governmnet to come whip my arse for me so that I will be able to live when I retire.
name one law that the unions helped pass that has fundimentaly changed how work in the U.S. is done in the last 25 years?
The retirement package is not 35 per hour. In my union ours was around $7.50 per hour maybe a little more and sprinklerfitters were the highest paid skilled trades most of the time anywhere in this country with generally the best insurance and retirement. I know ours is twice what the electricans around here get after retiring. Our labor rate was around $80.00 per hour and I know since I did service work the last 12 years out of the 36 years plus I worked in the trade. The rest of your comments are pure ignorance and proves you don't have a fucking clue to what your mumbling about which is normal for the wingnut stooges who visit this site.
One law?....How about the one where the government made colleges install fire protection after several students were killed? You asked for one and there it is. I can give you more but I've already wasted more time on you than you're worth.
I'd say you would make a great member of the 3rd riech back in its day.
Conservatism...for the truly ignorant.
the college fire law is a good law but it is not what i asked. I asked for you to name one law that fundimentally changed how people work in the U.S. like back in the day when ford pushed for weekend off.
you must know nothing of the 3rd riech back in the day, I would have been fighting against them just as I am fighting against their resurgence now. the 3rd riech loved the labor unions they could not have taken over without them just like the modern day progressive party. trying to control every aspect of your life.
The labor "unions" beloved of the Third Reich were control mechanisms, not democratic worker representation and collective bargaining. They are like the unions in China. Don't make such ignorant comments or expect to be understood for the dumbass you appear to be.
I expect the rest of your neighbors cannot wait for you to move away so somebody who understands what being a good neighbor can move in. You seem to think parking your junk cars and old refrigerators in your front yard is fine. It is not.
I now understand why you vote with the other Hoosiers I knew when I lived there. A Southern state in the North, and it looks and acts like it. The right to be dumbass redneck crackers does not include the right to be a burden on your neighbors. Go find the appropriate trailer park, but not the one where people are trying their best to make it. Find the meth labs and trash heaps because you will fit right in.
http://bigcorporationusa.blogspot.com/2011/06/thank-union-35-ways-unions-have.html
The labor "unions" beloved of the Third Reich were control mechanisms, not democratic worker representation and collective bargaining. They are like the unions in China. Don't make such ignorant comments or expect to be understood for the dumbass you appear to be.
I expect the rest of your neighbors cannot wait for you to move away so somebody who understands what being a good neighbor can move in. You seem to think parking your junk cars and old refrigerators in your front yard is fine. It is not.
I now understand why you vote with the other Hoosiers I knew when I lived there. A Southern state in the North, and it looks and acts like it. The right to be dumbass redneck crackers does not include the right to be a burden on your neighbors. Go find the appropriate trailer park, but not the one where people are trying their best to make it. Find the meth labs and trash heaps because you will fit right in.
you really are obtuse i said they could not have taken over with out the labor unions once they were in power they forced everyone into the control labor unions that you are talking about.
what makes you think that I have junk cars and old washers in my front yard. I have self respect and make enough money to have new cars and a landscaper to take care of the lawn. I just do not want old bitter ex union want-a-be thugs telling me what i can or can not do to my house.
liberism ideas so good they have to be forced on you
You're a good wittle trooper or is it a ranger?
Conservatism..........For DOLTS only.
yes I am a good little trooper in the right against total government control. some thing liberals want.
How do you feel about Corporate America owning the government as they do now?
You think your vote really matters anymore?
corporations, unions or any other powerful organziation should be banned from paying for a candidates campaign. this would make sure that no candidate is beholden to any one powerful group.
liberalism ideas so good they have to be forced on you.
its funny how the koch brothers are always brought up but no one ever brings up georg soros.
its funny how the koch brothers are always brought up but no one ever brings up georg soros.
How many rich and powerful individuals and corporations and organizations, can afford to pay (bribe) politicians for tax breaks and other advantages just for the rich?
How many poor and lower class and ma & pop companies, can afford to pay (bribe) politicians for tax breaks and other advantages for the poor?
Which beneficiary has more political clout? The rich (mostly republicans) or the people living in cardboard boxes down the alley (mostly democrats) ?
This is why true democracy is always an uphill battle.
That is correct the builders establish the housing assoc. and the home owners elect the board members . The people that run are usually old bitter retired people. that had no power in their lives now on the board can make everyone that lives in the area as miserable as they are. The reason unions do not operate business is they are made up of people that are too scared to own and operate their own business so they use thug tactics in order to force their control over the business they choose to take over.
Hey if life is so miserable in Texas and all those southern states, why does anyone still live there? When a company posts a job in the south, how do they get any applicants? The point that is missed here by a lot of union supporters in the concept of competition. If you are making $10-15 a hour more as a union employee, you had better be worth that extra $10-15 dollars. If you are not, then you risk having the business move to the south, or worse yet Mexico. Then what has the union bought you at that point? Unemployment, that's what.
A businesses first responsibiltiy is make the owners money, period, end of discussion. Yes, they will try and pay as little as possible for their labor, but a good business realizes they have to attract and retain good people to survive, and they cannot do that without paying the going rate. And they need to create the impression that they pay for performance.
Yes everyone shouold have a safe and healthy work environment. And yes, I do tip my hat to what the unions did in the early 1900's to raise working conditions for all Americans. And those improvemtns are still with us today.
You can't blame a business for opening in a right to work state where they think that they will get more for their money spent on labor. You would do the same thing in their shoes. So the unions have to create the impression that the extra cost of dealing with them is worth it for the companies invoved. That is a tall order indeed.
Mauiman wrote: A businesses first responsibiltiy is make the owners money, period, end of discussion. Yes, they will try and pay as little as possible for their labor, but a good business realizes they have to attract and retain good people to survive, and they cannot do that without paying the going rate
poly replies: The problem is how to get the going rate as low as Haiti's. They're working on it.
German union scale for auto workers is $60 an hour. U.S. union scale was $30 an hour..New U.S. auto workers are now hired in at $14 vs. $60 in Germany.....more than four times the U.S. wage.
Maybe if we can get the going rate down to $5, we can compete with the Germans...and sell the cars to the rising middle classes of China and India. Like any other 3rd world country, our own workers won't be able to buy what they produce. They can ride affordable bicycles or walk. Tax revenues won't be high enough to build public transit. .
Any cheap donkeys for sale?
Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"
People like this should be content to be the dictator with their families, and their own lives. In their enterprises, they are obliged to actually do business with their employees. Unfortunately, they feel that they have the right to mess with and cripple the business that their workers are in. That is, renting their labor to the business owner.
Oh, and by the way, a true Conservative, and especially a Libertarian would never ask for Government to assist in helping to restrain workers from organizing their business in any way they want. (right-to-work laws, Taft-Hartley, stuff like that).
I now understand why you vote with the other Hoosiers I knew when I lived there. A Southern state in the North, and it looks and acts like it.
I've always lovingly referred to my neighbors to the east as "our own little slice of Alabama, right next door to Chicago".
If you need to make more money you can do one of sereral things
1. Convince your current employer that you are worth more than what they are paying you, and you might leave if they don't sweeten the pot. Obviously that move does not always work, but done correctly it can work.
2. Find someone else who will pay you more to do the same job. If you are in a southern state, get yourself a union job in the north, if you can find one.
3. Upgrade your skills so you can qualify for a better job.
4. Start your own business so you now can become the evil boss man.
If you are unwilling to do any of the above, then QUIT YOUR BITCHING! The opportunities are there, if you don't take advantage of them it's your own fault!
I just can't believe that there are people in this forum defending union - busting. In an age which sees almost all gains going to the very top, corporate capture of our government, thousands of factories closing up and shipping jobs to cheap labor markets and management able to hand pink slips to workers who have devoted decades of their lives to a company just because of one bad quarterly report I am incredibly offended that some here are suggesting to people that they should just "suck it up". What they ought to be doing is exactly what the citizens did in Wisconsin when Scott Walker betrayed their trust.
No matter how high a percentage of the public expresses disdain for trade deals, wants high income earners to pay more in taxes or thinks that corporate criminals ought to be prosecuted our bought and paid for politicians just keep doling out favors to Wall Street and the Chamber of Commerce because, regardless of any promises they make to voters to get themselves elected, they know where their bread is (or will be) buttered.
So, whatever you do, DO NOT QUIT YOUR BITCHING! Unless, of course, you're a brain-dead moron who thinks that living in dormitories and working up to 14 hours a day for $0.37 an hour is a perfectly fine prospect for the future of our children and grandchildren.
The employer is there to do business with the labor market, and doing business is a 2-way street. It is encumbant on the workers to organize their business (renting their labor) in such a way as to reap whatever the market will bear, just like any other business.
To Jones and Maui
You are soaking up the conservative propaganda like a sponge. Listen to yourselves. On one hand you are saying that it's perfectly acceptable and indeed mandatory for companies to make as much profit as they can by whatever means neccesary and on the other hand you are saying that individual employees CANNOT make as much money as they can by whatever means neccesary. You can't have that both ways.
If you truly believe that it's ok for companies to do what they have to do to make the maximum amount of money then you MUST also believe that it's ok for worker's to use unions to do the same. Otherwise you are just gibbering in circles.