Blame Bush

53 posts / 0 new
Last post
Marlin60

When does Obama become responsible?

Comments

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
More importantly , when does

More importantly , when does Bush become responsible?  According to conservatives and right wingers all over the US everything Bush did was golden and everything we have now is on the shoulders of President Obama.  So let's not get the cart before the horse.  There's still some reckoning to be done before you get to move on.

10 years of Bush tax cuts design to (cough-cough) create jobs had us losing jobs by the millions when he left office.  A full blown recession had begun well before he left office.  We were thrust into a dishonestly perpetuated war.  Let's figure out where Bush ends before we determine where Obama begins.

Art
Art's picture
The one who actually did it

The one who actually did it stays responsible forever and ever. Obama only has his own part to be responsible.

rigel1
rigel1's picture
Bush_Wacker wrote: More

Bush_Wacker wrote:

More importantly , when does Bush become responsible? 

Who cares? He's not running for anything. Rehashing all of the past "sins" of Bush has never solved a single problem.  When we need a leader, we get a finger pointer in chief.

Art
Art's picture
Quote:Rehashing all of the

Quote:
Rehashing all of the past "sins" of Bush has never solved a single problem.  When we need a leader, we get a finger pointer in chief.
If I had been a Bush supporter, I'ld get my panties in a twist every time I heard his name, too.

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
rigel1 wrote: Bush_Wacker

rigel1 wrote:

Bush_Wacker wrote:

More importantly , when does Bush become responsible? 

Who cares? He's not running for anything. Rehashing all of the past "sins" of Bush has never solved a single problem.  When we need a leader, we get a finger pointer in chief.

What do you mean who cares.  If I burn down a house then I'm responsible, not the restoration company cleaning it up.  If you ask the company cleaning it up "who did this?" would they then be nasty finger pointers if they pointed me out? 

I'm ready to hold the current President respnsible for everything he's responsible for but I can't even begin to do that until I can weed out the mess from previous Presidents.  I suppose the 15 trillion dollar debt was created by Obama as well.  We wouldn't want to point fingers now would we.

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
How quickly they forget.  I

How quickly they forget.  I don't.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2008/09/21/29510/bush-legacy-taxpayer-funds/

rigel1
rigel1's picture
Bush_Wacker wrote: rigel1

Bush_Wacker wrote:

rigel1 wrote:

Bush_Wacker wrote:

More importantly , when does Bush become responsible? 

Who cares? He's not running for anything. Rehashing all of the past "sins" of Bush has never solved a single problem.  When we need a leader, we get a finger pointer in chief.

What do you mean who cares.  If I burn down a house then I'm responsible, not the restoration company cleaning it up.  If you ask the company cleaning it up "who did this?" would they then be nasty finger pointers if they pointed me out? 

I'm ready to hold the current President respnsible for everything he's responsible for but I can't even begin to do that until I can weed out the mess from previous Presidents.  I suppose the 15 trillion dollar debt was created by Obama as well.  We wouldn't want to point fingers now would we.

Here is the difference. Obama is happening now. He is relevant. Bush is not running. We cannot change anything that he has done. The American people have pretty much had it with the blame Bush excuse for everything. Obama refuses to man up. I would recommend that the libs keep campaigning against President Bush. That would be the best gift you could give us. keep it up. I insist.

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
You can't change the future

You can't change the future unless you learn from the past.  This isn't about blame.  It's about not making the same mistakes.

Art
Art's picture
Quote:Rehashing all of the

Quote:
Rehashing all of the past "sins" of Bush has never solved a single problem.  When we need a leader, we get a finger pointer in chief.
What is it you want Obama to "man up" (great Michele Bachman rhetoric) and tell us? When he tells us that he's given us 23 straight months of job growth, and that the economy is improving, he always adds "but not fast enough". What else do you want him to "man up about"? Liberals have a beef with him for being much too nice to the Republicans, but that's not something that really involves you guys.

rigel1
rigel1's picture
Bush_Wacker wrote: You can't

Bush_Wacker wrote:

You can't change the future unless you learn from the past.  This isn't about blame.  It's about not making the same mistakes.

I don't think that is the way most people see it. This is unprecedented. The blame game has never gone on this long. The tired, worn out Bush, Bush, Bush drone is sounding desperate.

I encourage all Obama supporters to continue to do it.

Calperson
Calperson's picture
Art wrote: When he tells us

Art wrote:

When he tells us that he's given us 23 straight months of job growth, and that the economy is improving......

You're a good little prole aren't you? There is no need to afraid of Big Brother staring back at you via the tele screen. It is not necessary to parrot the Pravda line all of time. All you have to do is step outside and observe the REAL society as it is today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SV-xPS5-GxE

Here is an excellent summary and analogy of how Obama increased our debt more in his first term than all previous Presidents combined!

 

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
Cal, try looking up real

Cal, try looking up real statistics from real sources.  Even my feeble mine knows that Obama took over when the debt was at just over 10 trillion.  It is now just over 15 trillion.  Do you know what that means?  That means that all other Presidents combined had to add up to at least 10 trillion.  That's assuming that no President ever actually reduced it or it would be more than that.  Follow along with me now.

15 trillion take away 10 trillion equals 5 trillion.  Obama has increased our debt by 5 trillion dollars.  5 trillion dollars is not equal to or more than 10 trillion dollars.  OK!

Now GW. took over when we had about a 5 trillion dollar debt.  He added 5 trilion to it.  He basically doubled the debt while in office.  Obama has another 5 trillion to go if he wants to keep pace and double it before he leaves office.  He's on pace to do just that but we'll see.

A trillion dollars today is the equivalent to a billion dollars yesterday as well so don't be surprised if he even surpasses the 20 trillion mark.

One more thing.  I'm speaking in political tongues here.  Neither Bush, nor Reagan, nor Clinton, nor Obama added to the national debt.  They have a hand in the cookie jar but Congress is the banker.

Art
Art's picture
Quote: The tired, worn out

Quote:
 The tired, worn out Bush, Bush, Bush drone is sounding desperate.
Not to me, it doesn't. Only to you guys who think that W was a wonderful President. It's a necessary reminder of how we got to this place, You bet we're going to keep it up.
Quote:
analogy of how Obama increased our debt more in his first term than all previous Presidents combined!
Analogy? You need to read some real statistics. But no matter. The people who are going to decide this election don't care that much about the debt. Not even that republicans are wholely responsible by refusing to put the touch on your beloved "job creators" to help with the debt. They want jobs. Republicans block Obama's jobs stimulus bills. Everybody knows that. 

I see that Mitch McConnell isn't so copascetic with House Republicans on holding the line on debt levels. Do think McConnell may know something that the kids in the House don't know?

The chance of getting people to open a Youtube link about the debt are between zero and none.

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
People are so easily fooled. 

People are so easily fooled.  We are like puppets to the puppet master.  It's in our nature to be distracted by whatever they want us to focus on.  We can't help ourselves.  Here's a good example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=316AzLYfAzw

Choco
Choco's picture
Marlin60 wrote: When does

Marlin60 wrote:

When does Obama become responsible?

If you ever saw PeeWee Herman's movie you will see a pretty good analogy. PeeWee drives a car off the cliff and as it is plunges through thin air headed for a terrible crash, he wakes up the man sleeping next to him in the passenger seat. PeeWee is Bush, the man is Obama.

Choco
Choco's picture
Here's 2.3 Trillion we should

Here's 2.3 Trillion we should be looking for. Can't blame Obama for this.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rumsfled's+2.3+trillion&mid=3D7BB380AF7D24F569D13D7BB380AF7D24F569D1&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1

Here's what 2.3 trillion looks like: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rumsfled's+2.3+trillion&mid=3D7BB380AF7D24F569D13D7BB380AF7D24F569D1&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1

 

Choco
Choco's picture
And there's this paltry sum

And there's this paltry sum that you can't blame Obama for:

The Guardian,Wednesday 6 July 2005

So, Mr Bremer, where did all the money go?

At the end of the Iraq war, vast sums of money were made available to the US-led provisional authorities, headed by Paul Bremer, to spend on rebuilding the country. By the time Bremer left the post eight months later, $8.8bn of that money had disappeared. Ed Harriman on the extraordinary scandal of Iraq's missing billions. 

When Paul Bremer, the American pro consul in Baghdad until June last year, arrived in Iraq soon after the official end of hostilities, there was $6bn left over from the UN Oil for Food Programme, as well as sequestered and frozen assets, and at least $10bn from resumed Iraqi oil exports. Under Security Council Resolution 1483, passed on May 22 2003, all these funds were transferred into a new account held at the Federal Reserve Bank in New York, called the Development Fund for Iraq (DFI), and intended to be spent by the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) "in a transparent manner ... for the benefit of the Iraqi people".

The US Congress also voted to spend $18.4bn of US taxpayers' money on the redevelopment of Iraq. By June 28 last year, however, when Bremer left Baghdad two days early to avoid possible attack on the way to the airport, his CPA had spent up to $20bn of Iraqi money, compared with $300m of US funds. The "reconstruction" of Iraq is the largest American-led occupation programme since the Marshall Plan - but the US government funded the Marshall Plan. Defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Bremer have made sure that the reconstruction of Iraq is paid for by the "liberated" country, by the Iraqis themselves.

The CPA maintained one fund of nearly $600m cash for which there is no paperwork: $200m of it was kept in a room in one of Saddam's former palaces. The US soldier in charge used to keep the key to the room in his backpack, which he left on his desk when he popped out for lunch. Again, this is Iraqi money, not US funds.

DdC
DdC's picture
Whenever the subject of any

Whenever the subject of any of the Bush Klan is mentioned,
One thing's a gimmee. Obama is a red herring.

Booshammy

Village Idiot

Phaedrus76
Phaedrus76's picture
rigel1 wrote: Bush_Wacker

rigel1 wrote:

Bush_Wacker wrote:

rigel1 wrote:

Bush_Wacker wrote:

More importantly , when does Bush become responsible? 

Who cares? He's not running for anything. Rehashing all of the past "sins" of Bush has never solved a single problem.  When we need a leader, we get a finger pointer in chief.

What do you mean who cares.  If I burn down a house then I'm responsible, not the restoration company cleaning it up.  If you ask the company cleaning it up "who did this?" would they then be nasty finger pointers if they pointed me out? 

I'm ready to hold the current President respnsible for everything he's responsible for but I can't even begin to do that until I can weed out the mess from previous Presidents.  I suppose the 15 trillion dollar debt was created by Obama as well.  We wouldn't want to point fingers now would we.

Here is the difference. Obama is happening now. He is relevant. Bush is not running. We cannot change anything that he has done. The American people have pretty much had it with the blame Bush excuse for everything. Obama refuses to man up. I would recommend that the libs keep campaigning against President Bush. That would be the best gift you could give us. keep it up. I insist.

No, we are not running against Bush. Why don't you explain how much more Captain Magic Underpants Gov. Rmoney is going to take rightwing economics? Show me a graph where Rmoney is going to do more of what Bush did, more tax cuts for job creators who never create jobs.

chilidog
Calperson wrote: Obama

Calperson wrote:

Obama increased our debt more in his first term than all previous Presidents combined!

 

whiskeyman
whiskeyman's picture
 How are you going to blame

 How are you going to blame bush for this, when the CBO says

  • For the 2013–2017 period, before accounting for the macroeconomic effects, CBO estimates that the President’s proposals would add a total of $1.5 trillion to deficits, resulting in a cumulative deficit of $3.2 trillion over that period . The economic feedback from the President’s proposals would yield projected deficits totaling between $3.0 trillion and $3.2 trillion over that period.
  • For the 2018–2022 period, before accounting for the macroeconomic effects, CBO estimates that the President’s proposals would add a total of $2.0 trillion to deficits, resulting in a cumulative deficit of $3.2 trillion over that period. The economic feedback from the President’s proposals would yield projected deficits totaling between $3.3 trillion and $3.6 trillion over that period.

 It's no wonder that it was voted down by the senate, even his own party nows that he is taking us in the wrong direction  This presidency is a train wreck and Obama is the conductor.

Art
Art's picture
No doubt, the CBO bases its

No doubt, the CBO bases its projections on continuation of current unsustainably miniscule tax rates on wealthy people. 

whiskeyman
whiskeyman's picture
  LIberals say tax the rich

  LIberals say tax the rich more , tax the rich more.  Same old song and dance. how about cutting spending? Or taxing everyone? we all have the benefit of living in the united states, but not all of us has had to pay for it. Why should a person be punished for being successful? Thats what you are saying when you say tax the rich more, the rich have too much they should give it to me even though I haven't done a thing to deserve it.

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
I pay a helluva lot more in

I pay a helluva lot more in taxes than my sister.  She barely makes enough to get by.  I don't feel that I'm being punished for being more successful than she is.  I'm being asked to pay in a little more than someone who makes less money than I do in order to help out.  That is the fundamental difference between someone like you and I.  I feel self satisfaction when asked to help and you feel that you're being punished when asked to help.

Choco
Choco's picture
And the conservatives say,

And the conservatives say, wealth distribution is wrong: Yet we see our tax dollars being redistributed to the military industrial complex via direct award govt., no bid, cost-plus contracts: Halliburton, Blackwater, Dyn Corp, Northrup Gruman, Boeing, GE, GM, Carlyle Group, as a result of corporate, PNAC-style global dominance imperialism. Then there's the insane oil depletion allowance subsidies to oil corporations who seem to have the greatest use for our taxpayer military to pound countries into submission. We also redistribute wealth to pay for corn subsidies for ConAgra and Monstanto and dump cheap corn and soy on the world markets destroying the economic viability of Mexican and South American farmers. I just can't believe how so many conservatives champion the cause of the super wealthy no matter how that money is garnered--note, not earned.

The biggest issue facing our economy according to some conservatives is that the lowest paid among us, the minimum wagers, are making too much money, while as Thom mentioned on Friday, the average CEO income was $12 million per year. That is not earned, that is gaming the system and that is what we are against.

 

Art
Art's picture
Quote:LIberals say tax the

Quote:
LIberals say tax the rich more , tax the rich more.  Same old song and dance. how about cutting spending? Or taxing everyone?
Who has the lifestyle money? That's the only thing the Federal lifestyle tax is for. People who don't pay Federal lifestyle taxes don't have enough lifestyle money to pay taxes on. These people who have less lifestyle money pay a hugely disproportionate percentage of all the other taxes relative to their income. Conservatives don't get this. 

Marlin60
Bush_Wacker wrote: I pay a

Bush_Wacker wrote:

I pay a helluva lot more in taxes than my sister.  She barely makes enough to get by.  I don't feel that I'm being punished for being more successful than she is.  I'm being asked to pay in a little more than someone who makes less money than I do in order to help out.  That is the fundamental difference between someone like you and I.  I feel self satisfaction when asked to help and you feel that you're being punished when asked to help.

Do you help your sister directly?  Asked to help?  Taxes are take, no one asks.  I pay close to 30% in state, federal and local taxes, I feel robbed! 

chilidog
If you're a single

If you're a single self-employed person in California (perhaps the highest-tax state) you can make $200k and pay 38% of your income in Federal, State, and Self-Employment taxes, before any taxpayers' subsidies for your house payments.

So if you're paying close to 30% you're doing pretty good, probably well into six figures.

 

DdC
DdC's picture
►►► LIberals say tax the rich

►►► LIberals say tax the rich more , tax the rich more.

Will you get over this silly hatfield mc'coy feud, the revenuers are about to take everybody out. It's the multinational G-20 top 1% pulling the strings of both parties. The GOP is just more obedient and thinks they are entitled to get what the top 1% have if they just go along. The Neocons in Congress are hurting republicans as much as liberals. Outsourcing jobs means outsourcing competition too. GOP business is screwed more than someone on food stamps or minimum wage. Higher you go the farther you fall. Sucking up to your own henchmen is insanity. I wonder if GOPers even know what tax is? It's tax that pays for the roads corporations tear up, but don't help fix sheltering their responsibility in Cayman Islands banks. I heard 5000 share one building. Outsourcing trickle down screws everyone twice. We believe the tax break will go toward creating American jobs when they say jobs they mean third world sweatshops and 3 dollar a day India slave markets. To the top labor cost takes from profits. Americans want safe work places, thats money off the top. Americans want a decent wage to live comfortably but that takes from the top. Norquest would rather sell the National Parks to private enterprises. Like damming the Colorado river and making a lake out of the Grand Canyon. Extracting ore and gas right out from under peoples homes. And please set me straight on why the hell clean air and water is so damn terrible for republicans? I've beat the abortion horse pretty hard showing the hypocrisy of the GOP. Pesticide and police action abortions are somehow different than a woman making a choice. If you can profit its ok?

►►►Same old song and dance. how about cutting spending?

How about distinguishing between people who breath air and bleed and objects like corporations that don't. Again you miss the boat over what a tax is. One trillion dollars in taxes paid for the lie in Iraq, another trillion in taxes went to lies about cannabis. Two trillion in TAX to bail out wall st  banksters and then Afghanistan and the other dozen or so Police Actions all run on TAX! But instead you cry in your beer over some mother on food stamps. Tax money preventing citizens from going hungry is well spent over tax going to India for cheap labor.

►►►Or taxing everyone? we all have the benefit of living in the united states, but not all of us has had to pay for it.

Taxing everyone? Do you realize that is the scam politicians discovered that actually cost us more due to the redundancy. In the case of patients, 1/3 of their home health care cost is taxes. Taxing tax paid citizens is double bureaucrats also taking taxes. Military and DEA rolling joints for 4 people while they spend billions busting people for the same damn thing? Plus policing the planet of potheads all spending taxes. Not from Mittney or the poor but us working class gullibles pay for it. As you send our jobs overseas less tax is produced and so the middle class dwindles just as Norquest and the other Neocons, world banksters and multinational corporations want. They're building a middle class in China and India, who needs America consumers? Or a living wage Unions help workers obtain? Why are taxes not a problem when Norqi receives them selling war toys or insurance scams? Now do you realize how stupid teabags sound? Like little kids ranting in the playground about things they have no clue about. Shooting themselves in the foot each time. At the end of the day Palin helped Exxon rip off Alaska and Americans paying 99 cents out of every dollar for their their clean up costs. Tax money dude. Same with BP and the damage caused by Cheney's frickin fraking. Just goofy to be so obedient to a cause that does you harm. Ever notice there's not much difference between Taxes and Texas?.

Exporting DEAmocracy on Tax dollars.

Only Four Remaining People Can Get Government Pot as Medicine - 10/14/01

Money Spent on the War On Drugs so far this Year[

Why Do You Think They Call it DOPE?

* Cannabis Hemp: The Invisible Prohibition Revealed
* The Elkhorn Manifesto
* Marijuana and Hemp: The Untold Story
* The Nation of Apathetic Puppets By John Pilger
* Maintaining Dysfunction

Cover-Ups, Prevarication's, Subversions & Sabotage 02/01/11
That you pay for with taxes! You pay for lies with taxes, get it?

Religious drug treatment in Texas Taking Taxes
Not even necessarily christians, you're paying taxes for "religion"?
Over the door of one church-based drug treatment center in Houston, a sign printed in foot-high letters announces: "Drug Addiction Is NOT a Disease. It's a Sin."

US Government Patents Medical Pot
So the liar drug thug czar spends millions in tax dollars saying there is absolutely no medicinal value in cannabis "marijuana" and then spends more taxes on patents for medicinal pot. Chumps!

Why can’t the US legalize drugs?
There’s ‘too much money in it, ~ Hillary Clinton

Thousands of U.S. agents x $60/hr...
and local police officers

DEA to raid Humboldt County... 400 agents x $60/hr...
More taxes spent and no teabog whining?

Median Hourly Rate by Years/Experience
1-4 years   $44.38      
5-9 years   $44.21      
10-19 years   $55.00      
20 years or more   $73.00

►►►Why should a person be punished for being successful?

That is plain silly. A Faux News rerun? No one is. Why should you get government tax funding and not have to pay it back like the Pharmaceuticals or Exxon welfare? Linkletter made millions in the 50's on TV and paid 90% income tax and still made millions. But it allowed my dad to feed and house the family. Schools were clean and the roads maintained. Living wages were the reason our country grew. Each paying their fair share. In case it hasn't sunk in. Band aids cost tax money for the poor. But as history shows, it cost less than the lacerations before the bandaids. Its a simple cost savings any family understands. If little Johnny puts on his rain coat he won't catch cold. Prevention. Utopian tax phobic seem to forget why we have workers safety programs and health care and food stamps and HUD. It's cheaper for the tax payer in the long run. Same reason GOPerverts want to trash teachers and steal school funding for vouchers the for profit schools can bilk from the pot. Bandaids should not become staples I agree. But foodstamps are cheaper than stealing food and going to private for profit prisons at $72k. Lesser evils are why we take care of our seniors and poor. Its not socialism, its common sense and a tad of compassion. Butch about the billion dollar fighter jets and stealth crap and small town police tanks. Plenty to bitch about without picking on the most vulnerable.

►►Thats what you are saying when you say tax the rich more, the rich have too much they should give it to me even though I haven't done a thing to deserve it.

Its true and they got it by flim flamming laws to cut checks and balances the naive Congressional twits authorized. Are you that blind or just stubborn and greedy for what ain't ever gonna trickle down to you? If the rich played fair with the tax we would not be in such debt that Bush ran up. Without off shore dodging taxes workers could have lower tax burdens. The rich got rich ripping off the middle class and now you want to cry that they got busted? You feel sorry for the thugs robbing banks with guns too? They cheated to get rich in the first place and until that hole in the vault is patched with sensible campaign financing and removing the lobby money. Nothing will change. Instead of safety nets the Americans will be condemned to the streets. More shanty towns you can drive around and bitch about.

Corporate Welfare Rats
Corporate welfare corrupts the political process. One perverse, but predictable outcome of a $100 billion-plus corporate welfare state is that industry begins to view Congress, rather than consumers, as their real customers. Moreover, industry has done an all effective job at protecting their subsidies.

At DEA, our mission is to fight drug trafficking in order to make drug abuse the most expensive, unpleasant, risky, and disreputable form of recreation a person could have.
-- Welfare Queen Donnie Marshall,
xAdministrator of the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA)

Kochroach & Aleech...                                                                                                                          ... the sound of taxes and dignity being sucked away from Americans...

Koch Roaches A.L.E.C. Drug Detention Centers
Today many have had their eyes opened regarding the huge profits made off of what is commonly called the "Prison Industrial Complex."  Suddenly awareness has turned from disbelief to anger as taxpayers realize the screwing private prison companies, their lobbyists and elected Legislators have been giving them for more than three decades now.

At the same time, the United States blasts China for the the use of prison slave labor, engaging in the same practice itself. Prison labor is a pot of gold. No strikes, union organizing, health benefits, unemployment insurance or workers' compensation to pay.

Marlin60
chilidog wrote: If you're a

chilidog wrote:

If you're a single self-employed person in California (perhaps the highest-tax state) you can make $200k and pay 38% of your income in Federal, State, and Self-Employment taxes, before any taxpayers' subsidies for your house payments.

So if you're paying close to 30% you're doing pretty good, probably well into six figures.

 

Yes, I am doing well, no guilt or appologies.  Did it through hard work, or as some on this site say "white privalege".  Just would like keep a little more for my family.

whiskeyman
whiskeyman's picture
  This the most conspiracy

  This the most conspiracy laced site I have ever visited. Never mind the person behind the curtain he is doing nothing. What if the people that you tend to believe, are the ones that are pulling the stings and you are the puppets. Big corp. big oil, big govt, they are the ones that you need to hate. But don't forget big education filling those minds with this mindless drivel, turning your minds into useless goo. But wait Thom says that education is the key, never mind the strings in thom's hands they are doing nothing, Hmmm . And if you are making barely enough to get by, welcome to the club, but that does not entitle you or me to someone else's money.

Art
Art's picture
Quote:that does not entitle

Quote:
that does not entitle you or me to someone else's money.
Bumper sticker.

No, Article I Section 8 entitles some people to other people's money. Hard to accept, but it's been that way for 236 years.

DdC
DdC's picture
►whiskeymanThis the most

►whiskeyman
This the most conspiracy laced site I have ever visited.

Oh man that's original. When you can't think of a response just cry "conspiracy"? Hey ace just name the damn conspiracy. The refs I leave are history. It happened, Boosh junior spent a trillion dollars of tax money on the lie in Iraq. What frickin conspiracy? Buzzwords are weak.

A Few Buzzwords

Never mind the person behind the curtain he is doing nothing.

►whiskeyman
Oh a denialists too, weak. If there is a man behind the curtain as you claim "doing nothing" then what the hell is it doing there then? It's a metaphor whiskers. The international corporatists with no allegiance to the US are pulling the strings of American politicians and its clear who goes along with them. You can't even muster up courage to defend your actions and whiny gibberish. Just blame the poor. Weak.

The solution is simple. Eat the rich

►whiskeyman
What if the people that you tend to believe, are the ones that are pulling the stings and you are the puppets.

If "you" means Americans and their selected officials then yes duh. Do you ever even think for yourself or just repeat gossip from Faux? Neocons are dixie democrats and blue dawgs selling war machines the same as GOPerverts. Nothing to do with democracy or even American lifestyles. Just blame the vulnerable, stealing crumbs from the starving is your version of America I want no part of. I enjoy sleeping at night, how do you live with yourself knowing your hate towards your neighbors is not without consequences? You bash the workers right to a fair wage and they have to work two jobs to make ends meet. Less family time and supervision of their kids. You bash teachers for one reason, cheaper labor with uneducated and less whistleblowing and no guts to object. Take what you give them eh? Pushing small businesses to compete with India's slave market and China's sweatshop everytime you buy from wallmart. Traitors, and you haven't a clue that you're even supporting treasonous dogs. Pitifools.

►whiskeyman
Big corp. big oil, big govt, they are the ones that you need to hate.

Hate doesn't do any good for anyone. Big Corp, Big Oil, Big Pharma Big Prison and Big Gov is who I object too. Not in and of themselves. For what they have flim flammed the past 40 years. You give them welfare and cry about student aid? You say you hate big government and yet jerk your pom poms at the Prison Industrial Complex and probably get your rocks off drooling over the Military Industrial Complex. Wars fabricated in Heritage thimktanks along with no bid contracts for cheney's haliburton. Like I said a trillion dollars and not a mumbling word from the teabog dippies.

►whiskeyman
But don't forget big education filling those minds with this mindless drivel, turning your minds into useless goo.

Now you want to either explain what the hell your spurting out or do I just label you a conspiracist? Filling their minds with that ole science stuff that goes against the profits of leaking crude oil or clearcutting forests or mountaintop removal? That education that you believe gets people living wages and workers benefits? You prefer the dumbing down of citizens so they don't object to oppression. Typical GOPervert weakness. Cannibalism actually. Your fellow Americans are in the same boat you are trying to sink. Same old story, you save a dollar on teachers salaries and larger classrooms and spend 20 dollars down the road. Same as preventive health care or paying 10 times more for emergency room care. Which you would be happy to stop doing and then let them die in the waiting rooms. Just sorry greedy idiots if you ask me. Private for profit schools take from the general fund so public school classes are larger, pay is less and kids get the short end of the straw while you pocket a couple bucks.. I see why education is so troubling. If you ever learn to comprehend what you read you'd be a flaming liberal overnight.

►whiskeyman
But wait Thom says that education is the key, never mind the strings in thom's hands they are doing nothing,

That makes no sense, not a surprise. Just us old stoners try to understand what the hell you're ranting about and this ones got me stumped. Guitar strings? What stings does Thom have in his hands? You mean like Oxyrush and his addicted ditto's? Thom and I don't agree on many things, including the buzz word "marijuana". Or that the political process as it stands can make a difference. Not until we remove the fascism imho. But at least he isn't going along in the same direction. We may be paddling upstream against the raging river but you think to paddle downstream without a whimper might get you favor with the 1%? You and everyone here is part of the 99% and fighting for the top makes you a wingnut. Benedict Arnolds to King George while your neighbors suffer. If you are in the top 1% why the hell would you waste your time on a message board? Go enjoy your wealth. No I think you're just confused and a bigot, from not receiving a good education you never learned that racism and bigotry is taught just like the science you fear. I assume by the logo that you ride a Harley? Better gas milage than a hummer. Does your concern over global warming mean Glen Bluck won't like you anymore?

►whiskeyman
Hmmm . And if you are making barely enough to get by, welcome to the club, but that does not entitle you or me to someone else's money.

No I'm doing as well as I want to. I could make more but then it would take up more time. I don't mind paying taxes but when I do it cost the patients 1/3 of the health care. Disease taxes should be eliminated and covered by the offshore accounts of Willard Mittney. Someone else's money as you spew is bullshit. Someone rigged the taxes for the rich. Make it fair and no one cares if the rich get rich. I don't envy moneysluts, I pity them and sometimes despise them. No that is hogwash Faux spews for selfish people to fell better about exploiting the workers and poor. Tax is spent on American people or foreign investments and labor. Your choice is to be a traitor to your country. As you jerk off the red white and blue plastic wallmart flag, Unknowingly buying bullets that kill American kids desperate enough to join up rather than live with unemployment. But the kicker is the flag is made in China with Iraqi crude oil so your trading with the enemy doesn't sound like its patriotic to me. Selling your sovereignty, on sale. Foolish.

Seniors Home Care!
New growth industry warehousing seniors.
Charging them a Disease Tax for Homecare, where's Norqi?
Where's the Teaboggons?

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
The trillion dollar deficit

The trillion dollar deficit cited on Obama's watch, the one in 2009, was W's. You see the budget and associated expenditures and pitiful revenues are done the previous year. I know it's hard for right wingers to understand fiscal policy, you know, numbers and things are hard.

The wars which bush started have to be paid for, Obama didn't start them. The injured vets are going to have to be treated, though republicans tried to not treat them, cut spending they said. Deny vet treatment but don't touch rich people's money. Obama is treating vets, injured in wars W started and didn't pay for. 

Obama is also treating the vets injured in the military actions he was responsible for, like Libya, oh yea that one didn't cause any injuries.  No multi billion dollar green zone, and embassy citadel needs to be built there either. When did the bills come due for all the bases in Iraq, and Afghanistan?  How much are the continuing costs into perpetuity?  I think those expenses were agreed to before Obama was elected. 

Had the party of no agreed to infrastrucure the economy would by now be humming and generating revenue. But since everything he proposed was filibustered, we got only a pittance of what could have been done. Right wingers have trouble with science, that's a given, but they also have trouble with civics, because we don't have a dictator. They cry for leadership, but spoiled brats that they are, they throw tantrums and won't do what the POTUS wants. Not only that, they are going to take their ball and go home so no one can play.

DRC
DRC's picture
Where did the interesting

Where did the interesting cons with a shred of intellectual or moral integrity go?  Marlin is an empty headed, cold-hearted troll.  Calperson is utter sleazeball by comparison, and boozerman is a raving drunk on Old GOP.  Of the bunch, rigel manages to be half-way decent, but cannot get any perspective on what the GOPimps in Congress do to keep Obama from doing what is needed.

Now, as to the question of how Obama deals with them, we have some disagreement on the Center to Left with many wishing for a much more partisan confrontation and accountability from a real Justice Dept.  Meanwhile, Bush/Cheney get the blame for deficits and war crimes, for lost opportunities and utterly partisan failures.  The GOPimps get the blame for party over country and disloyal opposition in service of the powers that got us where we are today. 

The system gets the blame for not allowing a Progressive challenge to the Corporate duopoly so that we are stuck with lesser evil and utterly awful, but not with any lessons really learned from a long neocon ride away from democracy. 

If there were a "loyal opposition," we could have real bipartisan attention to repairing America and getting out of the wars of Empire.  We could be pursuing real energy policies instead of held hostage to oil.  The banksters would be in jail and banking would be an honest business.  We would not be having "birther" and "he's a Muslim" idiocy, and there would not be a theocratic push to end abortion when more than half the country does not agree with the theology behind this crap. 

I want Obama to stop repressing whistleblowers in the NSA and to end drone bombing everywhere.  I would have thought we could end illegal employer license and even get weed out of the crime issues.  Instead of crazy gun libertarianism, we could have responsible hunting protections and sport shooting liberty.  Instead of Koch-heads, we could have small government conservatives having real discussions about the problems of Big Government and how local organizing could do a better job facing the environmental and social issues, including poverty.

We would not be blaming Bush had the GOPimps and their partisans ever taken a shred of personal responsibility for what they inflicted upon America.  Obama is responsible for doing what he can, not for what he is prevented from doing by you creeps.  How do you like the hypocrisy of the permanent filibuster when you would have shrieked about "the dictator" had the Dems been aggressive in the first two years when they had a paper thin majority undercut by a few Corpadems?

As to boozerman's deficit numbers, when you have crashed an economy, you have to spend to get out of the ditch.  You have to deal with food stamps from people who lost jobs.  When your GOPimp Governors fire teachers and other state workers, unemployment insurance and other benefit accounts increase and tax revenues go down.  Who is doint this if not the ALECult of Rightwingism?

Take some responsibility for your own crap, cons.  Marlin, go troll somewhere else.

mauiman58
mauiman58's picture
I think this says it all

I think this says it all about Obama.  Thsi biggest problem this country faces is that there is a 1 trillion dollar a year shortfall as far as the eye can see.  And Obama is spending s lot of time promoting the Buffett rule as if it will solve the problem.  The Buffett rule brings in a whopping 5 billion a year.  Yet the current POUS is so caught up in class warfare that he is willing to engage in this class warfare rather than come up with any meaningful solutions. Symbolism over substance at its finest, and that is all the Democratic party is.  Truly pathetic!

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
A nation of spoiled

A nation of spoiled brats

Right wingers don't know science, or civics, and they also don't know history

Quote:

FP: What's the most broken in our system? Is it fiscal fecklessness? Is it gerrymandering? Is it the way the Senate works? Is it filibustering? Is it campaign finance?

EL: Those are all symptoms. As a foreigner, I do sometimes see campaign finance as the root of all evil, but I also understand that the First Amendment makes it very hard for people to envision a scenario where it's going to be properly controlled. And I think the Supreme Court's going in the wrong direction. But when you ask ‘What's the most broken?' there's a richness of embarrassments to select from. Take the Supreme Court, for example. I don't know how they're going to rule on "Obamacare" in June, but I do know that eight of them are pretty much spoken for and there's one swing vote.

You could also look at the polarization of the Senate, which can't be explained by gerrymandering since state boundaries are fixed. [It] now has an essential tool of paralysis -- the filibuster -- that the minority use as a matter of routine, as they do in California. I do think in this respect California is very much America's future, in positive technological ways, but also in the political sense. Sacramento is barely capable of functioning. I think Washington is taking on those features and that makes governing really difficult. If you believe that America is a story of essentially the government being out of the way and then the nation flourished, then this might all look fine. But if you have a proper understanding of American history and you know what role government played in American development and in American capitalism, then this isn't fine at all.

Let the free market fix the bridges they say. Get gov't out of the way. The job creators could be the same ones a great republican [Eisenhower] used to build the interstate highway system. But that would invigorate the economy and the brats would rather raise the whole country than cooperate.

DRC
DRC's picture
Ok, but where is any

Ok, but where is any "substance" from the GOPimps?  If your cult cannot even pass the Buffett rule and then ask for more, why do you get your panties all twisted about why Obama has not come after you with the Braveheart swords?  If you think this is trivial, why do you say that Obama is caught up in class war?  O, I so wish we had some militance to shove your effing disasters up the orifices they came out of.

If you oppose all the efforts to put people back to work and to build the infrastructure of 21st Century America, stop complaining about the costs of feeding and caring for those your GOPimp banksters and  Kochhead governors have screwed.

We have a revenue problem and until we get the richest Americans to become part of the country and "give back," we will have deficits.  Such hypocrisy!

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
Marlin60 wrote: Bush_Wacker

Marlin60 wrote:

Bush_Wacker wrote:

I pay a helluva lot more in taxes than my sister.  She barely makes enough to get by.  I don't feel that I'm being punished for being more successful than she is.  I'm being asked to pay in a little more than someone who makes less money than I do in order to help out.  That is the fundamental difference between someone like you and I.  I feel self satisfaction when asked to help and you feel that you're being punished when asked to help.

Do you help your sister directly?  Asked to help?  Taxes are take, no one asks.  I pay close to 30% in state, federal and local taxes, I feel robbed! 

I help her out directly from time to time...........to time.  You have the right to feel robbed.  I have the right to feel good.  They could tax me at 50% and I would still be better off than half of my country.  We're all brothers and sisters so I'll keep helping and keep trying to get businesses to hire more and pay better.  I would rather do that than complain about my circumstances.

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
mauiman58 wrote: I think this

mauiman58 wrote:

I think this says it all about Obama.  Thsi biggest problem this country faces is that there is a 1 trillion dollar a year shortfall as far as the eye can see.  And Obama is spending s lot of time promoting the Buffett rule as if it will solve the problem.  The Buffett rule brings in a whopping 5 billion a year.  Yet the current POUS is so caught up in class warfare that he is willing to engage in this class warfare rather than come up with any meaningful solutions. Symbolism over substance at its finest, and that is all the Democratic party is.  Truly pathetic!

Who is really engaging in class warfare.  Why is it that 5 billion a year in extra revenue is laughed at by the conservatives including yourself but you'll fight like hell to pass a farm bill that cuts "a whopping" 23 billion dollars over 10 years that includes food stamps for the poor?  Less than 3 billion dollars in cuts is HUGE for the conservatives to keep from the poor but 5 billion a year in income from the super rich is just picking on rich people.  Gag me with a spoon.  The right wing rhetoric is stinking up the barn again.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2012/04/20/congress_begins_uphill_battle_to_pass_farm_bill/

The current five-year farm bill expires at the end of September, and the Senate Agriculture Committee on Friday released a draft of its plan to redesign safety nets that help farmers weather bad times while achieving some $23 billion in deficit reduction. The full committee is to vote next week on the plan, which consolidates conservation programs and takes several steps, such as stopping lottery winners from getting assistance, to make the food stamp program more accountable. Of that $23 billion in savings projected over next 10 years, $4 billion comes from food stamps.

mauiman58
mauiman58's picture
Bush_Wacker, I don't know all

Bush_Wacker, I don't know all the details of the situation you discuss here, but certainly both sides have to find a way to make a significant dent in the 1 trillion dollar a year shortfall that is every year as far as the eye can see.  And sorry, there are going to have to be some program cuts to reduce expenditures, there is no way around it. There is no way you can reasonably "tax the rich" for more than about 10-15% of this gap.  And you might be able to get 100 billion a year by making draconian cuts in the military.  That still leaves a large gap that has to made up by spending cuts.  I know you "Progressives" don't like to hear this, but those are the facts, like it or not. 

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
You said it maui.  Both sides

You said it maui.  Both sides have to do their part in this.  That means the Norqusition (Norquist) needs to come to an end.  Whoever sold their soul to this guy needs to swallow it and get back to the negotiating table.  If they don't then both sides can't participate.  Taxes can't be locked into place while really important social programs are cut to shreds to make up the difference.

mauiman58
mauiman58's picture
The problem is that the

The problem is that the feeling on the right is that the goverment is getting enough money and if they get more, they will just waste more.  Sorry I can't disagree with that, but if I was in charge I would give in a little on taxes to come to a solution.  However I am not in charge.

So I can agree with you that the "no tax increases at all in any circumstances" is a bit ridiculas, but the howls that come from the left every time there is a proposal to trim Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security have to stop.  These programs simply cannot survive in their present form, they are simply way too expensive.

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
mauiman58 wrote: The problem

mauiman58 wrote:

The problem is that the feeling on the right is that the goverment is getting enough money and if they get more, they will just waste more.  Sorry I can't disagree with that, but if I was in charge I would give in a little on taxes to come to a solution.  However I am not in charge.

So I can agree with you that the "no tax increases at all in any circumstances" is a bit ridiculas, but the howls that come from the left every time there is a proposal to trim Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security have to stop.  These programs simply cannot survive in their present form, they are simply way too expensive.

Does it really matter how expensive they are?  If there is waste then by all means trim off that waste but not you or any other conservative on the planet can convince me that feeding a starving child is too expensive or that saving a life is just too expensive.  If we let a super rich man's money be more important than basic humanity then we should all be damned to hell.

mauiman58
mauiman58's picture
Sorry that kind of logic will

Sorry that kind of logic will bring the entire economy down.  There is only so much money to go around, and there is a limit (like it or not) to how much money we can spend on these programs.  And if the entire economy goes doen, then everybody loses.

So yes, there is a limit to what we can spend on these programs.  And we are at about 150% of that limit right now.  If we don't do something sooner rather than later the US economy will look like Greece and Italy, a total disaster.  And taxing the rich is like spitting in the ocean, a total mirage, there is no way that will ever solve the problem, the rich don't make enough money to fill in this gap.

DRC
DRC's picture
Wrong again, but even wronger

Wrong again, but even wronger about how nations work.

mauiman58
mauiman58's picture
OK, so I guess money just

OK, so I guess money just grows on a tree and is unlimited.  As soon as you find the money tree that can support these programs please point it out ot me so I can plant one for myself.  Sorry I don't think that tree exists, and there are a whole lot of others looking for it (and not finding it either). 

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
mauiman58 wrote: OK, so I

mauiman58 wrote:

OK, so I guess money just grows on a tree and is unlimited.  As soon as you find the money tree that can support these programs please point it out ot me so I can plant one for myself.  Sorry I don't think that tree exists, and there are a whole lot of others looking for it (and not finding it either). 

If you google "fiat money system" then you will see that money does indeed grow on trees.  How did we pay for 3 wars?  How did we pay for massive bank bailouts?  Did our taxes go up to pay for it?  We were already in debt so it didn't come from some surplus bag of gold buried in the backyard.  It was simply printed into existence by the banks so that the US could "borrow" it.  You can't justify spending money on bombs while you let citizens die.  I would rather go into "fake" debt to feed needy Americans than to go into "fake" debt to kill hundreds of thousands of people we have never even met.

mauiman58
mauiman58's picture
Two wrongs do not make a

Two wrongs do not make a right.  And the debt is not fake, it is very real.  If the war was wrong, it was wrong.  But using that to justify taking the entire economy down for everyone is UNBELIEVABLE and totally IRRESPONSIBLE!!!!!!!!!

And PS the war is over.  So you cannot blame that for the problems going forward.  Only irresponsible Democrats and Progressives that refuse to accept reality are the problem now.

Choco
Choco's picture
The wars are not over, we're

The wars are not over, we're still paying fifty percent of every tax dollar to support 800 military bases around the world and that money is not spent on infrastructure, teachers, schools, hospitals, etc. It's a big transference of money from the middle class to the wealthy elite cartel of bankers, military and American oil sheiks.