Why is it that people continue to ignore the heart of the problem with American democracy?

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chilidog
workingman wrote: in Las

workingman wrote:

in Las Vegas the voting machines were set up to vote for Harry Reid no mater whom you voted for, his son Rory Reid was the person in charge of the voting machines for the country.  he was also running for political office and had the support of the unions that installed and maintained the systems if any problems arose. 

I never heard this story before.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201010280005

http://mediamatters.org/research/201010270031

Art
Art's picture
Quote:I never heard this

Quote:
I never heard this story before.
On the advice of Workingman, I Googled "Harry Reid voting machine". I got lots of articles from right wing blogs, several FoxNews entries and one from the LA Times. The voters referred to are Joyce Ferrara and her husband. According to The Hill, Those blogs also want us to know that Reid's son, Rory, is in charge of the voting machines because he is a County Commissioner. Personally, I thought the Registrar or the Board of Elections would be in charge of the voting machines.

workingman
workingman's picture
Anulap wrote: You have it

Anulap wrote:

You have it incorrect the difference of capitalism and crony capitalism as well as communism and socialism for starters...

capitalism is the risking of capital be it labor, material, or money to make a profit.

Crony capitalism is corporations using the force of government to their advantage over competion. Like gm and ge using obama administration to their benefit.

Socialism is government ownership of the major means of production for the benefit of all at the expense of all. They will allow you to own small businesses but only under gravity crushing regulations.

Communism is government ownership and control of everything.

Socialism is the watered.down verdion so people still have the illussion of being free to achieve or to pursue happiness.

Posted from phone excuse typos

DRC
DRC's picture
So, bossman, are you saying

So, bossman, are you saying that the GOPimps are for "capitalism" and it is Obama who brings the cronies?  Really!

It seems to me that if you believe in the ability to "risk" one's money to do good business and create value, that you would hate the military empire and Wall St. for substituting their Corporate plutocracy and oligarchy. 

 

workingman
workingman's picture
DRC wrote: So, bossman, are

DRC wrote:

So, bossman, are you saying that the GOPimps are for "capitalism" and it is Obama who brings the cronies?  Really!

It seems to me that if you believe in the ability to "risk" one's money to do good business and create value, that you would hate the military empire and Wall St. for substituting their Corporate plutocracy and oligarchy. 

 

I used those two companies as an example, both.parties do it. The military is a constitutional requirement plud it is needed to provide security for the citizens of the country.

Wall street is needed so most of the businesses in the world can get money through investment to expand, research and development, as hire more people.

Anulap
Anulap's picture
A standing army is not

A standing army is not needed.  We have a right to a militia, but not a standing army.  That's just ingrained thoughts.  Also, Wall Street is most definitely not needed given that the central banking system is actually against what the founding fathers wanted with a strong government.

 

ah2
workingman wrote:Democracy is

workingman wrote:
Democracy is about equal access to voting and participation in the system. We already have that in america unless you are in the country illegally or are convicted felons. Capitalism is an economic system where everyone has equal opportunity to suceed or fail. This system is not.perfect but is better than amything else humans have tried. There are booms and busts however these are made worse by government intervention. Excuse typos posted from phone

Wow this just bears no resemblance to reality what so ever.  Equal access already in America?  You have to have your head under a rock or somewhere worse to even attempt to make that claim with a stright face.

There are places in cities like Chicago and New York where you can literally cross a street and see a $10,000 per pupil difference expenditure in the school districts.  Women and minorities still only get paid about 70 cents to the dollar that white males get.  Incarceration rates in some cases are 13 times for blacks than they are for whites for petty crimes like marijuana possession.  Disproportionality in Special Education identification about 3-4 times the rate for Latinos and Black than for Whites or Asians.

Need I go on?  You seriously would have to be a complete flippin idiot to think that we have anything even close to equal opportunity in this country.

Want equal opportunity?

1.  Eliminate all inheretance.  You cannot pass wealth from one generation to the next.

2.  All school funding goes into a national pool and every child gets the same amount + expenses for special education accomodation.

3.  Mandate equal pay laws across the country.

4.  Eliminate differential sentencing.  If you did the crime do the time.  Adjust punishments accordingly.  If we knew that we had to send EVERYONE to jail for marijuana possession and not just all the Black kids, do you think there would be a prison sentence attached to it?  Hell no.

5.  Publically financed campaigns.  All candidates get the same money and it comes from a common pool.  No more buying politicians to advance personal or corporate interests.

6.  Eliminate voter ID laws or make it possible to register and obtain an ID at the voting booth.  Make voting day a national holiday.  State voting days are state holidays for everyone.  Those businesses that typically stay open (restruants, etc.) are legally required to provide their employees with a 6 hour block of time during the day to go vote.  All public transportation is free on voting day.  etc.

Getting the idea yet.  Equal opportunity my ass...

polycarp2
working man wrote: capitalism

working man wrote:

capitalism is the risking of capital be it labor, material, or money to make a profit.

Crony capitalism is corporations using the force of government to their advantage over competion. Like gm and ge using obama administration to their benefit.

Socialism is government ownership of the major means of production for the benefit of all at the expense of all

poly replies: You could probably use a lesson in economic and social theory.

Capitalism at its core is nothing more than generating a surplus to maintain or expand production. Capital is real stuff, seeds, factories and the like. Under our application of capitalism, money is a director of real capital.. There have been many, many various applications of capitalism throughout human history. Ours is just one of them. and is prone to periodic collapse.

Socialism is nothing more than direct worker ownership of their workplace. It is not government ownership. That's an aberration of socialism. The term has been so misconstrued over the years, it's now called Parecon...Participatory Economics..Socialism requires the basic fundamentals of capitalsim to function.. Every system does..It doesn't, however, require our peculiar application of it.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease".

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
Quote:Democracy is about

Quote:
Democracy is about equal access to voting and participation in the system. We already have that in america unless you are in the country illegally or are convicted felons.
Unless you are black, or poor, or hispanic. The 90,000 blacks stripped from the voter registration in FL 2000 would disagree with the notion of of one citizen one vote. If you are a citizen with a governor that is a brother to a candidate your vote won't count, and if the candidate has a father that put a justice on the supreme court, the votes won't count for anybody except the son of the guy that gave the justice a job.

Republican motto, 'In fraud we trust'.  If you can't win, cheat, business ethics at it's finest.

Coalage1
How did the repubs steal

How did the repubs steal Tennessee in 2000?  How come Gore couldn't win his home state?   Like I said in the other thread...he wins Tennessee, election over, most forget about what happened in Florida.

 

Art
Art's picture
Quote:How come Gore couldn't

Quote:
How come Gore couldn't win his home state?
Probably because Tennesee is a solid red state. Wouldn't you think?

Coalage1
They elected him, and his

They elected him, and his father, to the senate.  So he must have had some support there even if it was a "red state".  It was his home state for Chrissakes.

DRC
DRC's picture
The deluge of FAUX fear and

The deluge of FAUX fear and flag wrapped Bible thumping might have had something to do with it.  That and the fact that Bill neither used his presidency to get anything useful done nor kept his zipper up.  Given what we got instead, I would think that those who voted Bush/Cheney would be wearing sackcloth and ashes, begging for forgiveness.  But, no, they still keep their Bibles flagged and their hatred for anyone who disturbs their mythology.

Choco
Choco's picture
Workingman advocating for

Workingman advocating for capitalism is like Federal Reserve advocating for asset backed currency. Not so much. Workingman, (I recognize the Luntz-type wordplay). For whom do you work?