Am I Still A Liberal?

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I'm in my 50's and have voted democratic all my life. I have read liberal publications and books for the past 30 years. i can't listen to a right wing show for more than 5 minutes w/o changing the channel. Yet, my experience on another liberal radio show message board and being banned now makes me question whether liberalism has morphed into something I can't follow anymore.

Here are some of my experiences. If you criticize Obama for anything, I was called a righty and racist. I questioned why there were so many Wall Streeters in his administration and it was ignored, but not without being attacked personally. Where are the proscecutions for the Banksters-there were plenty in the S+L failures? I bring up points from PBS shows like Bill Moyers and Frontline that show the administration in a less than rosy light, nobody actually watches the shows before attacking me as a righty. I bring up Sen. Schumer voting for the repeal of Glass-Steagall and all I got was it was the republicans fault. I bring up Jonathan Haidt's book The Righteous Mind after I saw him on Bill Moyers and asked for an effort to understand the conservative mind and was vilified. Their star college professor on the message board told me he didn't need to read the book-he just dismissed the book from the critics he read.

I always tried to make reasoned arguements and never used foul language or personal attacks, but I was dismissed and attacked with obscenities, vile and venom. Basically I saw these 'liberals' exhibiting the same behavior as they accused the tea party of. They truly believe college should be free and college loans should be forgiven. They truly believe all people should have houses and all mortgages should be forgiven. They called me jealous when i questioned whether my neighbor mail carrier should be making the $87K/year he claims and that maybe $40K/year with benefits would be appropriate for a manual job with limited skill requirements and education. They are unable to use the words 'personal' and 'responsibility' in the same sentence. They truly believe in a money tree-they make no effort to figure out a way to pay for any programs other than tax the rich. These 'liberals' won't admit it, but they are acting like moral hazard in America is dead. Since Wall Street ignored moral hazard, they want their payback regardless of the 'oppressed' responsibility for their situation. You lied on your loan-no problem. You walk away from your house because it's underwater-don't dare send me a 1099 for the balance even though it happens on every other type of loan. Sure, nobody held a gun to my head when I signed that student loan but it should be forgiven because Wall Street is evil. Of course, the stupid law that didn't allow student loans to be discharged in BK should be changed, but there should be no loan forgiveness. The rich and Wall Street don't play by the rules so why should I? Meanwhile, everyone who plays by the rules just watched in disgust as their tax money goes to bailouts for those who didn't play by the rules. I say just admit moral hazard is dead and we should all act like it's the anything goes Wild West. Get anything you can anyway you can. These 'liberals' are stuck in their own Fox News type of echo chamber and have no interest in trying to work things out in this destructive polarized country we now find ourselves it. How's that repubs and demos hating each other working out for you?

Now I admire the Danes, Dutch and the Swedes for their economic systems. But unless Americans are willing to raise taxes to those levels, it won't work here. I wish it was still times of govt plenty, but it's not. And it may never change or at least take years to remedy. I'm sorry everything has to be cut back in these times, but it's reality. Since it appears there will never be any clawback for the money that was stolen, we have to make to with less in these times.

Help me out-was the other message board an aberration? Or has my age and life experience changed me from a flaming impractical liberal to a cautious, progressive independent?

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm

Comments

Where did all the liberal/progressives go... they simply died out as a species.

http://www.politicususa.com/the-dimensions-of-fundamentalist-christian-d...

DRichards's picture
DRichards
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

oops, wrong link to the above post. Sorry!

http://www.american.com/archive/2012/may/why-the-future-will-be-more-rel...

DRichards's picture
DRichards
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Lovecraft. Don't know what message board you were at, but there are plenty of people here who raise your questions, I'm not sure what they call themselves, but that aside, none get banned for it.

And that too aside, I can see that the discourse that correlates actual, philosophical liberal thinking with the political party known as the Democratic Party has changed in various ways in my lifetime, even if those who continue to think in those terms have not. If you want to read a pretty fair overview of what has taken place I'd recommend something like Chris Hedges' The Death of the Liberal Class.

Here's a Youtube of Chris talking about it. Chris would not be banned from this site. Referring to him is OK, apparently, I have, I'm still here. And Thom himself has had a discussion with Chris on his Great Minds segment. Chris is not intended as a paradigmatic model, by any means, just an example that I think reflects many of us not as pulled to the right as the Democrats have been over the last forty years as a result of what can be seen by any perceptive observer as a systematic assault on liberal values going back to the early seventies.

When dealing with the autistic right, who also are consistently present on this site -- apparently in keeping with Thom's openness to debate them -- and dealing with their consistently patterned binary terminologies that force everything into the free market or socialism mode of thought, it's not hard to see how that movement to the right has been so successful. If it were up to the autistics, we'd all be autistic. Their lives would be so much simpler that way. It's really dumbed us down when we've participated. But some of us keep plugging away at those out-dated efforts to achieve enlightment, and Thom's administrators tolerate us.

.ren's picture
.ren
Joined:
Apr. 1, 2010 7:50 am

I go to the second paragraph and knew that Lovecraft is a rightwing imposter. He was obviously never called a racist or a righty by anybody on a liberal radio show for questioning about the wallstreeters. He was probably personally criticized for being a right-wing imposter.

It's amazing how many of these trolls we have been seeing here. It's also amazing how stupid they think we are.

Art's picture
Art
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

WOW! It's just like I'm on the other message board. I was always accused of being a right wing imposter. The funny thing is when I comment on local conservative boards, I'm attacked for being a liberal. I don't know about others, but I have neither the time or interest to pretend to be someone else and only want to express my actual views and experiences. I shouldn't have to justify any liberal credentials and can never prove how long I've watched PBS shows like Frontline and Bill Moyers, listened to local radio like NPR station KPCC and Pacifica station KPFK or whether I've voted democratic for 30+ years. I questioned mortgage bailouts, the impotent healthcare reform, the mistake of underestimating the job problem and focusing on healthcare, the absence of any changes to Wall Street regs to prevent a reoccurance after 4 years, the absence of any changes to the Patriot Act from the Bush years, etc. I will not apologize for not following the demo party line. I like progressive ideas-just make sure they are fair and paid for. Here in CA for the past 30 years, I have watched many a half baked progressive idea implemented and run into the ditch by bad management, diverted funds and unintended consequences.

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm

[quote=lovecraft]

I'm in my 50's and have voted democratic all my life. I have read liberal publications and books for the past 30 years. i can't listen to a right wing show for more than 5 minutes w/o changing the channel. Yet, my experience on another liberal radio show message board and being banned now makes me question whether liberalism has morphed into something I can't follow anymore.

[b] Of course they are 2 different camps for the same Globalist Authoritarian Agenda. Left-wing authoritarians = socialists and your Right-wing authoritarians = fascists. Both groups taketheir orders from the Bilderberg Group and is promoting Globalism. [/b]

Here are some of my experiences. If you criticize Obama for anything, I was called a righty and racist. I questioned why there were so many Wall Streeters in his administration and it was ignored, but not without being attacked personally. Where are the proscecutions for the Banksters-there were plenty in the S+L failures? I bring up points from PBS shows like Bill Moyers and Frontline that show the administration in a less than rosy light, nobody actually watches the shows before attacking me as a righty. I bring up Sen. Schumer voting for the repeal of Glass-Steagall and all I got was it was the republicans fault. I bring up Jonathan Haidt's book The Righteous Mind after I saw him on Bill Moyers and asked for an effort to understand the conservative mind and was vilified. Their star college professor on the message board told me he didn't need to read the book-he just dismissed the book from the critics he read.

Fall of the Republic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

The Obama Deception

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

I always tried to make reasoned arguements and never used foul language or personal attacks, but I was dismissed and attacked with obscenities, vile and venom. Basically I saw these 'liberals' exhibiting the same behavior as they accused the tea party of. They truly believe college should be free and college loans should be forgiven. They truly believe all people should have houses and all mortgages should be forgiven. They called me jealous when i questioned whether my neighbor mail carrier should be making the $87K/year he claims and that maybe $40K/year with benefits would be appropriate for a manual job with limited skill requirements and education. They are unable to use the words 'personal' and 'responsibility' in the same sentence. They truly believe in a money tree-they make no effort to figure out a way to pay for any programs other than tax the rich. These 'liberals' won't admit it, but they are acting like moral hazard in America is dead. Since Wall Street ignored moral hazard, they want their payback regardless of the 'oppressed' responsibility for their situation. You lied on your loan-no problem. You walk away from your house because it's underwater-don't dare send me a 1099 for the balance even though it happens on every other type of loan. Sure, nobody held a gun to my head when I signed that student loan but it should be forgiven because Wall Street is evil. Of course, the stupid law that didn't allow student loans to be discharged in BK should be changed, but there should be no loan forgiveness. The rich and Wall Street don't play by the rules so why should I? Meanwhile, everyone who plays by the rules just watched in disgust as their tax money goes to bailouts for those who didn't play by the rules. I say just admit moral hazard is dead and we should all act like it's the anything goes Wild West. Get anything you can anyway you can. These 'liberals' are stuck in their own Fox News type of echo chamber and have no interest in trying to work things out in this destructive polarized country we now find ourselves it. How's that repubs and demos hating each other working out for you?

[b] Both authoritarian sides want to restrict free speech cuz that's what authoritarians do. [/b]

Now I admire the Danes, Dutch and the Swedes for their economic systems. But unless Americans are willing to raise taxes to those levels, it won't work here. I wish it was still times of govt plenty, but it's not. And it may never change or at least take years to remedy. I'm sorry everything has to be cut back in these times, but it's reality. Since it appears there will never be any clawback for the money that was stolen, we have to make to with less in these times.

Help me out-was the other message board an aberration? Or has my age and life experience changed me from a flaming impractical liberal to a cautious, progressive independent?

[b] First regauge your politcal compass...

www.politicalcompass.org [/b]

Then educate yourself with these films....

The American Dream Film-Full Length

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM

The Money Masters.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=The+money+changers&ei=Zd4QSMjvB47YqAKQtJmzBA

Endgame

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261&q=Endgame+&ei=1t4QSPaoB5q2rAKJzaywBA

This will give you and others the real news and info you need to fight the true enemy that is Globalist.

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
Joined:
Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm

Instead of whining say something intelligently liberal. I'm giving you a chance to say something intelligent if you want to, lovecraft. The people here that say the following (which we've heard many times) are not progressives, liberals, lefties or anything else. This sounds more like you have something of a cartoon vision of the left and you're reading off a list that some right wing think tank has compiled, with no idea what the people you claim to be so familiar with are really like.

Quote lovecraft:

Basically I saw these 'liberals' exhibiting the same behavior as they accused the tea party of. They truly believe college should be free and college loans should be forgiven. They truly believe all people should have houses and all mortgages should be forgiven. They called me jealous when i questioned whether my neighbor mail carrier should be making the $87K/year he claims and that maybe $40K/year with benefits would be appropriate for a manual job with limited skill requirements and education.

What do you think of this from Chomsky?

Plutonomy and the Precariat
On the History of the U.S. Economy in Decline

By Noam Chomsky

.ren's picture
.ren
Joined:
Apr. 1, 2010 7:50 am

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php

http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php

http://www.believeinamerica.com/

If you want to find like minds....

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
Joined:
Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm

I'm not sure what a liberal view is, but let's try these. In a given society, basic needs such as shelter, clean air and water, power and communication should be available at an affordable cost to everyone. Shelter can be an apartment-it doesn't have to be a $200K house. Communication can be a phone line-govt shouldn't subsidize $200/mo internet cable smartphone bills. Euthanasia and abortion should be legal and rare. Drug use should be legal-but criminal actions resulting from the use should be charged. The rich and corporate should pay their fair share of taxes-which they are not. Student loans should be dischargeable in BK-not forgiven. All children K-12 should have access to a good education. But the govt should not mandate expensive special ed programs without providing the funds.

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm
Quote lovecraft:

I'm not sure what a liberal view is, but let's try these.

It was your approach in the first paragraph of your original post that made me suspicious. But I thought I'd just let you expose yourself in whatever way you see fit. The paragraph I quoted above was a dead giveaway.

I don't consider myself a democrat, but I've never felt the need to apologize for it, here nor on any site. I just talk about stuff from my point of view, which is generally radical, critical, tending towards anarchistic, which involves dealing with life existentially and well away from the ever absurdities of incongruous government programming. Nor do I consider my view in any way categorically "liberal" but that's never stopped conservatives from labeling me. It's like they need to or else they are lost at sea.

I have noticed that those who tend to self identify as conservatives seem to have a difficult time understanding people who don't start from a categorical label in their thinking and then dice everything into a sort of black and white binary stir fry from there. If you don't see yourself doing that, it's like you are trying to be a musician but you're tone deaf.

.ren's picture
.ren
Joined:
Apr. 1, 2010 7:50 am

I too have been called a "righty" and "racist" even though my immediate family is predominately black.

If you are looking for a place where intelligent people gather for insight and knowledge... sadly, this is NOT the place for it.

This IS the place for a few members to engage in seeking truth and knowledge. But beware, along the way you will be ravaged and sabotaged by hateful, cowardly liars.

Dr. Econ, Phaedrus76, DRC are the WORST of the bunch.

My belief (much like the "war" on terror) the notion of calling people out as Republican trolls is a "message board false flag." Meaning, the one's that do the accusing... are the one's who are the REAL trolls.

Time after time, they have out right LIED to try and make a point. Seriously, Fox & Friends are not as good/bad as the troglodytes here on this message board! The only people who do that are the TRULY mad and the TRULY paid shills.

As the famous philosopher once put it, "He who smelt it... dealt it."

I have never witnessed a larger gorge of integrity from "The Messenger" (Mr. Harttman) and his listenership (The false flag farters!). Aside from religion... obviously. I mean the term "Holy War" is like "F-ing for chastity".

But the motley crew here are a close 2nd.

Fletcher Christian's picture
Fletcher Christian
Joined:
Feb. 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Lovecraft: you can’t take this personally. About 9 months ago, when many were bashing Obama, I made a statement that I didn’t agree with president Obama, but that looking out there at the alternatives, he was the best bet. I also coupled that with saying that we should get involved in local politics and try to move it to the left. Which, if you listen to thom on the regular, he says something similar. For that I was called a troll. This happened twice, and in one post there were two other posters tag teaming and at the end they high fived each other and concluded I was a secret republican for supporting Obama.

I took it personally for a few moments, became indignant, cursed and then thought, I don’t know these people per se, so what the hell? I am entitled to my opinion and I gave it. I was hoping for cordial discourse at the time, I didn’t get it but so what? I continue to post occasionally, and when I get a response that seems to be attacking, I restate my point. If there is still contention, I move on. Don’t take it personally. You are entitled to your opinion, post what you like. Just know some are not going to agree with you and will be nasty in their disagreement. L Liberals have differing opinions just like anyone else.

The up side is that you also get some posts that give insight. Looking forward to a conversing with you in the future. peace

scriber1's picture
scriber1
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

This is a blog of opinionated individuals. This is not the Thom Hartmann board of directors. I've been called everything under the sun. It comes with the territory. It is up to you to prove yourself with your words. That's all you have for ammunition on the interwebs. Maybe you think of yourself as a hard core liberal and maybe you are more moderate than you think. I would rather not describe myself with man made labels. I just let my words and action define who I am. To some on this board I'm a liberal nutjob and to others I'm a fence stradling moderate. I haven't been accused of being a right wing shill yet but I'm sure it will happen eventually.

The bottom line is that you should let your thoughts and opinions be heard and pay no attention to any labels that might be pinned on you. It doesn't really matter what you are, only who you are. There are some conservatives on this board that I can argue with to no end but I still consider them good hearted people. rigel, capital, mauimann, workingman. I hate their politics but I don't hate them. We differ greatly in our opinions but we are all still fellow Americans.

Bush_Wacker's picture
Bush_Wacker
Joined:
Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am

Hopefully, Bush_Wacker... that means that I am not considered conservative.

Because I am not.

I am independent.

I just watched a show on PBS and there was a sort of "test" as to whether one was a republican or democrat. I was "NEITHER" and "BOTH".

I'm on the right path.

confirmation

counselor

Fletcher Christian's picture
Fletcher Christian
Joined:
Feb. 15, 2012 12:49 pm

I stayed out of this, because I thought that Ren was doing fine, but since I was brought up...

I love personal responsibility. Mr. Trump has had his business declare bankruptcy how many times? Where is his responsibility? The good people at Arthur Anderson the accounting firm which was a partnership, walked away from roughly 5 billion in personal debts thanks to Dubya, where was their personal responsibility? Just as each person is responsible for themsleves, each employer is responsible for their own business, including making sure their employees adequate compensation, and yet in AZ the median personal income is about $25,000, which is far from adequate.

Complaining about a post office employee who has a good deal? Why not complain that the rest of the US workforce does not have similar compensation, through union representation?

Moral hazard has been dead fr the rich in this country 30 years. Each time some large company seems to be going under, the entire rightwing machine moves to save them. Using the govt to help the least among us seems a much better use of our money.

The 2 distinctions I make on the bailouts are these.

1- on the Auto companies, do you believe the Japanese, Koreans, and Germans would allow their companies to go out of business? Of course not, figuring out where Toyota ends and the nation of Japan begins is impossible. VW is owned by 2 German states.

2- on the bank bailouts, the US taxpayer, through the FDIC, was already on the hook for all the losses stemming from the deregulation caused collapse. With all the Baby Boomers mutual funds holding so much of the banking stocks, it doesn't make a lot of sense to punish them on the eve of their retirement, put 2 million bank workers on the street, and kill the credit markets just so we can have another Great Depression. I'd have preferred if the bailouts had been handled differently, end too-big-fail institutions, return to Glass Steagall, put more responsibility on the board of directors and CEO's to behave. But the rightwingers are screaming that Frank Dodd is too much! While also bitching about the bailouts, and the recession. Which without Frank Dodd, we would have another massive bank failure / real estate bubble every 7 -10 yrs.

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
Joined:
Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm
Which without Frank Dodd, we would have another massive bank failure / real estate bubble every 7 -10 yrs.
But, bu, but, that's what sounds really good to the Von Mises acolytes.

Art's picture
Art
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote lovecraft:

Communication can be a phone line-govt shouldn't subsidize $200/mo internet cable smartphone bills.

What the hell are you talking about?

chilidog
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Most local phone companies have a basic subsidized lifeline rate for the poor on land line service. I just meant the govt shouldn't subsidize an elite smartphone or cable service.

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm

OK Phaedrus-let's rock! The non rich have thrown moral hazard out the window too. Nobody forced anyone to sign loan documents where you misstated your income. Nobody forced you to buy a house you couldn't afford. Nobody said you shouldn't do some due diligence on the biggest financial transaction of your life and just not believe what a salesman told you(consumer 101). Students-no one forced you to take out student loans. Even though all these people signed legal contracts-they want to be excused from their obligations. Of course, there should be legal action in cases of fraud. But people shouldn't get a free house because of post-loan fraud(robosigning). That's why I said let's stop pretending there is any moral hazard left in America. Let's admit it's anything goes and everyone just grab what they can get when the govt picks its winners. For example, people who bought a house they can't afford-bailout; renter-nothing. For people who have their mortgages reduced-winner. Credit card and car loan debtors-nothing. Jobless vets-employer incentives to hire. The rest of the unemployed-nada. People who have been dutifully paying off their mortgages-SUCKERS!

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm
Quote lovecraft:

I'm not sure what a liberal view is, but let's try these. In a given society, basic needs such as shelter, clean air and water, power and communication should be available at an affordable cost to everyone. Shelter can be an apartment-it doesn't have to be a $200K house. Communication can be a phone line-govt shouldn't subsidize $200/mo internet cable smartphone bills. Euthanasia and abortion should be legal and rare. Drug use should be legal-but criminal actions resulting from the use should be charged. The rich and corporate should pay their fair share of taxes-which they are not. Student loans should be dischargeable in BK-not forgiven. All children K-12 should have access to a good education. But the govt should not mandate expensive special ed programs without providing the funds.

www.politicalcompass.org

http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-4.62&soc=-4.56

Did you take the test ?

It's the best way to gauge yourself ?

I am a lefty-libertraian

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
Joined:
Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm
Quote lovecraft:

OK Phaedrus-let's rock! The non rich have thrown moral hazard out the window too. Nobody forced anyone to sign loan documents where you misstated your income. Nobody forced you to buy a house you couldn't afford. Nobody said you shouldn't do some due diligence on the biggest financial transaction of your life and just not believe what a salesman told you(consumer 101). Students-no one forced you to take out student loans. Even though all these people signed legal contracts-they want to be excused from their obligations. Of course, there should be legal action in cases of fraud. But people shouldn't get a free house because of post-loan fraud(robosigning). That's why I said let's stop pretending there is any moral hazard left in America. Let's admit it's anything goes and everyone just grab what they can get when the govt picks its winners. For example, people who bought a house they can't afford-bailout; renter-nothing. For people who have their mortgages reduced-winner. Credit card and car loan debtors-nothing. Jobless vets-employer incentives to hire. The rest of the unemployed-nada. People who have been dutifully paying off their mortgages-SUCKERS!

I don't know where you live but it's different where I live. I can't buy more house than I can afford. My lender won't let me. I can't see into the future and know that my student loan interest is going to just double without notice. I can't take out a huge loan from the bank without first showing means and collateral to pay it back. I can't forsee a future financial crisis that comes from an unexpected illness. All I can do is try my best to gain financing where I can and hope to hell that life doesn't throw me too many curveballs along the way. I must be one of those SUCKERS!

Bush_Wacker's picture
Bush_Wacker
Joined:
Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am
Nobody forced anyone to sign loan documents where you misstated your income
I take back what I said. Stop with the moral sermons already. You think the world should be a certain way. I think the world should be the way I want it. try to deal with the way things actually are and you get to vote for what you want. I'll vote for what I want. That's how it's supposed to work in a democracy.

Art's picture
Art
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

So not going comment on US car cos vs Germany and Japan supporting their's?

Crying over moves to keep families from homelessness, no worries that Arthur Anderson and Trump, and Enron walked away from their responsibilities.

Yeah, you probably are a conservative.

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
Joined:
Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm
Quote lovecraft:

Most local phone companies have a basic subsidized lifeline rate for the poor on land line service. I just meant the govt shouldn't subsidize an elite smartphone or cable service.

Is the government presently subsidizing smartphone or cable services?

chilidog
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Our own government owns majorities in many of our corporations.

Motorola is a "crony capitalist" corporation.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=6228552

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=for General Services Administration

"AIG" which is now "21st Century" is also owned by the government.

Subliminal Fascism... not only a great song from the band, "FISHBONE"... but it's also a way of life!

Cheers!

Fletcher Christian's picture
Fletcher Christian
Joined:
Feb. 15, 2012 12:49 pm

Just expressing the limits I am comfortable with.

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm

Of course, lenders are now acting rationally about loans. I was talking about the RE loans from 2000-2008. Here in SoCal we had the center of the subprime industry with Ameriquest and Countrywide.

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm

It was all done on purpose....

The American Dream Film-Full Length

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM

An elementary version of how our monetary system works.

Simplified... for those who never took economics or how the Federal-Reserve operates in High School.

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
Joined:
Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm
Quote lovecraft:

Here are some of my experiences. If you criticize Obama for anything, I was called a righty and racist.

I was dismissed and attacked with obscenities, vile and venom. Basically I saw these 'liberals' exhibiting the same behavior as they accused the tea party of.

You are still a liberal. Just not a hateful one. If you disagree with some libs, they accuse you of having a psycological disorder or character flaw. Or say you are just plain stupid. Bullies hiding behind a screen name.. There are some of those on this board. Why bother to address an arguement when you can destroy the person. They are following the lead Of Joe Stalin.

rigel1's picture
rigel1
Joined:
Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am

I'm just trying to move beyond this polarization gridlock and quagmire we are buried in. People on all sides have to stop wrapping themselves in their party's flag and cocoon and come together on something. What do we have to look forward to if Obama is reelected and Congress is divided? Another 4 years of the same. I truly believe if most of the country could have gotten together 3 years ago and applied a marshall type plan for jobs-unemployment would be down to 6 or 7% today. But look what we got! This country will go nowhere as an entrenched in your positions 50-50 polarized country. The hatred and venom both sides express for each other are not productive-hasn't 4 years been enough?

I'm even willing to give the repubs a shot. If they are as bad as some say, they will expose themselves and run off unto a ditch. Then in 2 years the demos can take back Congress and maybe things can get moving. But in our current system, important things are avoided, programs are gutted to be mostly ineffective compared to the time and energy spent to pass them and we are just circling the drain. We are trying to steer the Titanic with a paddle.

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm
I'm even willing to give the repubs a shot.
Thaen you are nuts. It's about the Supreme Court.

Art's picture
Art
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Like they have with FrankenCheney, the repubs will keep their 5 conservative justices alive as long as they need to. It's the liberals that will be retiring. It doesn't matter whether cases lose 5-4 or 6-3-they will still get voted down by the conservatives.

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm
It doesn't matter whether cases lose 5-4 or 6-3-they will still get voted down by the conservatives.
So you really are expecting a permanent radical right activist Supreme Court. That could actually be kind of fun in the long run.

Art's picture
Art
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

As I am 55 years old-for my lifetime-yep. The Bushes appointed young ones

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm

Currently Chatting

The Ferguson Effect On Our Great Grand Children

A few weeks ago, Congressman Paul Ryan released his latest proposal for tackling America’s poverty epidemic. Unfortunately, the plan does very little to combat poverty in our country, and instead, continues the devastating austerity policies that Ryan himself helped to create. Thanks to those policies, entire communities across America are underwater, and struggling to survive in tough economic times.

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