ART ;) of education

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Since this topic was off subject anyway...

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
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Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm

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Quote:

I am just sick of old people who go through life with a High School education trying to talk intelligently on subjects they know nothing about.

It really burns my butt to be forced to respond to an ad hominum like this.

Two Masters degrees. One MST and one MBA. Care to tell us about your educational background?

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Here's a cool U.S. Census interactive map

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/popmap/

It's a little hard to work with. Go to Los Angeles County, click on "Place" and the "Race" tab. Look at the cities bordering the 710 freeway on the west, the 57 freeway on the east, the 60 freeway to the south, and the 210 freeway to the north. Start with Monterey Park and Alhambra in the west and go to Diamond Bar and Walnut to the east.

There's at least 1.3 million Asians in Los Angeles County and 0.5 million in Orange County.

I'm guessing this trend is similar in the San Francisco Bay, Seattle, and other parts of the country.

This looks like an interesting book but I haven't read it:

http://www.amazon.com/City-Industry-Genealogies-Southern-California/dp/0...

chilidog
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Art:

Quote:

I am just sick of old people who go through life with a High School education trying to talk intelligently on subjects they know nothing about.

It really burns my butt to be forced to respond to an ad hominum like this.

Two Masters degrees. One MST and one MBA. Care to tell us about your educational background?

I have a Masters in Aerodynamics, and a Bachelors in History and Politics as well as a Bachelors in Biology.

What are your degrees in Liberal-Arts and other useless college topics ? MBA okay plenty of people get MBAs and have no idea the differences bewteen capitalism, socialism, communism, barter, etc. My dad had a term for people who held college degrees who knew not a damned thing... "educated fools." I knew a teacher once who didn't know what ammunition you use in a water pistol. Before my dad retired he saw it all the time where these college grads would be promoted to supervisors and they wouldn't have a clue as to what the job entailed.

What is MST anyway ?

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antikakistocrat
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Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm

An MST is a Master osf science in Teaching. It was here that I learned what it took to be a teacher and decided that it wasn't for me. I'm sorry you have such a low regard for MBA degrees, although I had to shudder from embarrassment for sharing the same degree with George W. Bush.

Maters of Aerodynamics, huh? I see that there are 5 schools worldwide to offer this degree. Must be very select. Basically, then, you are an engineer. Which raises a question.
Why are you unemployed?

A report from startup Identified shows just how in demand engineers are. People with engineering degrees on Identified have Identified scores that are 1.2 times those of liberal arts majors with equivalent work experience, meaning they are more sought after for jobs. But even in non-technical fields, people with engineering degrees are more sought after than liberal arts majors with the same years of work experience.
Perhaps there is a grand conspiracy in the States to deprive people named Antikakistocrat of employment.

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Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Art:

An MST is a Master osf science in Teaching. It was here that I learned what it took to be a teacher and decided that it wasn't for me. I'm sorry you have such a low regard for MBA degrees, although I had to shudder from embarrassment for sharing the same degree with George W. Bush.

Maters of Aerodynamics, huh? I see that there are 5 schools worldwide to offer this degree. Must be very select. Basically, then, you are an engineer. Which raises a question.
Why are you unemployed?

Cuz the Globalists are de-industrializing America so they can bring in their North American Union. The only engineering jobs are the service sector engineering jobs. Now the engineering jobs that actually produce stuff is being systematically discriminated against in the SBA's across America. If it is not a service-sector job the SBA's don't want to know you. Industrialists need not apply.

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
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Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm

Does any of that matter? You say you want a job. You are an engineer. Engineers are in demand. What's the problem? What kind of jobs are "service-sector engineering" jobs. do you mean things like "custodial engineering", or "fast-food conceptual engineering"? Are these Union jobs? Why don't you just join one of those Unions? (They didn't teach us about this stuff in the School of Business Administration).

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

PSST Art: Thom doesn't have a college degree and neither do I for that matter. Probably not a good issue to bring up. However I have been asked to teach computer science at colleges because their current professors back in the day didn't know how to teach it. In my case I dropped out of my university studies because my band was starting to get booked a lot and possibly be a national act back in 1967 and I didn't want to mess up my GPA. I figured I might finish up sometime but never did. Experience actually doing things was what counted in the tech industry over any degree and still does for some companies.

One solution for anti would be to look into "transposition of skills." What does he know that might apply to other fields especially ones of interest. The latter is important for if the job is more than just a paycheck the better the worker and more likely to be hired. I actually transposed a lot of my music skills into writing computer software because the endeavor is somewhat similar to music composing.

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captbebops
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Probably not a good issue to bring up
I didn't bring it up. So you are a musician, too. Life-long avocation. Compose, too. Correlates well with math skills and probably has a lot to do with spatial relations and other left-brain functions. Doesn't require school, either. Does require lots of experience, study and immersion.

It was our Anti that made an issue of education and stupidity.

(Have you posted any of your music online that I could listen to)?

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Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

And the leader of the tribe that offshored jobs is the leveraged buyout king the unicorn Mittens Romney.

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Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm
Quote captbebops:

One solution for anti would be to look into "transposition of skills." What does he know that might apply to other fields especially ones of interest. The latter is important for if the job is more than just a paycheck the better the worker and more likely to be hired. I actually transposed a lot of my music skills into writing computer software because the endeavor is somewhat similar to music composing.

I appreciate the sentiment but building a plane skills can pretty much only be used for building a plane.

Hell even the welding field is chock full of hiring freezes.

I have been working non-related jobs ever since.

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
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Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm

Here's one of 36 pages i our local Craig's List

Apr 30 - Welder and Welder-Fitters - Day Shift - (Swan Island) skilled trades/artisan

May 22 - TGAW (TIG) Welder - (Troutdale) manufacturing

May 10 - WELDER - (Clackamas, OR) manufacturing

Apr 24 - Experienced Sprayarc Welder - (Portland) general labor

May 24 - Pipe Welder/Fabricator - (SW Portland) general labor

May 23 - TIG Welder/Fab Shop - (Woodland, WA) skilled trades/artisan

May 23 - Experienced TIG Welder - (Clackamas) skilled trades/artisan

May 16 - Welder / Fabricator - (SE Portland) skilled trades/artisan

May 11 - Welder - (Tigard, OR ) manufacturing

May 11 - Ag Fabricator/Welder - (Yamhill, OR) skilled trades/artisan

May 9 - WELDER/FABRICATOR/MECHANIC - (Oregon/WESTERN US) skilled trades/artisan

May 8 - WELDER/METAL FAB - (PORTLAND) manufacturing

May 1 - Production Welder - (Portland, Oregon) manufacturing

Apr 30 - WELDER MIG/TIG - (PORTLAND) manufacturing

Apr 27 - Mill Wright, Loader Operator, Welder - (Tigard) skilled trades/artisan

May 22 - Welder - (Troutdale) manufacturing

May 21 - Woodworker/Welder - (Tualatin) manufacturing

May 16 - Tig welder/fabricator - manufacturing

May 13 - Dynamic TIG welder/fabricator - (SE) skilled trades/artisan

May 10 - Welder/Fitter - (Portland, OR) skilled trades/artisan

May 9 - Welder / Laborer - (Vancouver, WA) general labor

May 7 - Experienced Welder - (Portland) skilled trades/artisan

May 4 - Tig Welder - (Clackamas) manufacturing

May 2 - Welder/Fabricator - skilled trades/artisan

Apr 27 - Fabrication / Tig Welder wanted - (St. Helens, OR ) img manufacturing

May 9 - Fabricator - (Clackamas) skilled trades/artisan

May 24 - WELDERS NEEDED - STAINLESS - (PORTLAND, OREGON) img skilled trades/artisan

May 18 - MARINE WELDERS/FITTERS ~ PIPEFITTERS - (VANCOUVER,WA) skilled trades/artisan

May 17 - Calling All Warehouse, Welders, And Machinist Candidates! - (West Side) manufacturing

May 17 - Detailer, Welders and Ironworkers needed - (Vancouver, Washington) skilled trades/artisan

May 10 - Experienced Millwright and Electrician Positions Open - (Longview, WA) skilled trades/artisan

May 2 - General Laborers and Carpenter Apprentices - (Portland) skilled trades/artisan

May 1 - Fabricator - (Portland, Oregon) manufacturing

Apr 30 - Calling All Warehouse, Welders, And Machinist Candidates! - (West Side) manufacturing

Apr 24 - Certified Welders - Multiple Positions Available - (Hillsboro, OR) skilled trades/artisan

Apr 24 - Mig Welders - (Gresham) manufacturing

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I have to admit my ignorance about the North American Union, despite my high school education and advanced age.So, I looked it up.

The North American Union (NAU) is a theoretical economic union, in some instances also a political union, of Canada, Mexico, and theUnited States. While the concept can be viewed as loosely based on the European Union, occasionally including a common currency called the Amero or the North American Dollar, the union of the North American continent, and beyond that to Central and South America, has been the subject of academic concepts for over a century. One reason that it has not become a major subject of discussion is individual development in each region that failed to prioritize a larger union.

More recently some form of union has been discussed or proposed in academic, business, and political circles, for decades.[1][2][3][4]However, government officials from all three nations say there are no plans to create a North American Union and that no agreement to do so has been signed.[5][6][7] The formation of a North American Union has been the subject of various conspiracy theories.[8][9][10][11]

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

It was documented in ENDGAME: Blueprint for Global Enslavement.

So since it went viral on the internet the Bilderberg plan has since passed to the annals of history.

Much like the Nazi "plan" to set up a fascist dictatorship back in 1934 that General Smedley Butler blew the whistle to Congress over.

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
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Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm
Quote Art:

Here's one of 36 pages i our local Craig's List

Apr 30 - Welder and Welder-Fitters - Day Shift - (Swan Island) skilled trades/artisan

May 22 - TGAW (TIG) Welder - (Troutdale) manufacturing

May 10 - WELDER - (Clackamas, OR) manufacturing

Apr 24 - Experienced Sprayarc Welder - (Portland) general labor

May 24 - Pipe Welder/Fabricator - (SW Portland) general labor

May 23 - TIG Welder/Fab Shop - (Woodland, WA) skilled trades/artisan

May 23 - Experienced TIG Welder - (Clackamas) skilled trades/artisan

May 16 - Welder / Fabricator - (SE Portland) skilled trades/artisan

May 11 - Welder - (Tigard, OR ) manufacturing

May 11 - Ag Fabricator/Welder - (Yamhill, OR) skilled trades/artisan

May 9 - WELDER/FABRICATOR/MECHANIC - (Oregon/WESTERN US) skilled trades/artisan

May 8 - WELDER/METAL FAB - (PORTLAND) manufacturing

May 1 - Production Welder - (Portland, Oregon) manufacturing

Apr 30 - WELDER MIG/TIG - (PORTLAND) manufacturing

Apr 27 - Mill Wright, Loader Operator, Welder - (Tigard) skilled trades/artisan

May 22 - Welder - (Troutdale) manufacturing

May 21 - Woodworker/Welder - (Tualatin) manufacturing

May 16 - Tig welder/fabricator - manufacturing

May 13 - Dynamic TIG welder/fabricator - (SE) skilled trades/artisan

May 10 - Welder/Fitter - (Portland, OR) skilled trades/artisan

May 9 - Welder / Laborer - (Vancouver, WA) general labor

May 7 - Experienced Welder - (Portland) skilled trades/artisan

May 4 - Tig Welder - (Clackamas) manufacturing

May 2 - Welder/Fabricator - skilled trades/artisan

Apr 27 - Fabrication / Tig Welder wanted - (St. Helens, OR ) img manufacturing

May 9 - Fabricator - (Clackamas) skilled trades/artisan

May 24 - WELDERS NEEDED - STAINLESS - (PORTLAND, OREGON) img skilled trades/artisan

May 18 - MARINE WELDERS/FITTERS ~ PIPEFITTERS - (VANCOUVER,WA) skilled trades/artisan

May 17 - Calling All Warehouse, Welders, And Machinist Candidates! - (West Side) manufacturing

May 17 - Detailer, Welders and Ironworkers needed - (Vancouver, Washington) skilled trades/artisan

May 10 - Experienced Millwright and Electrician Positions Open - (Longview, WA) skilled trades/artisan

May 2 - General Laborers and Carpenter Apprentices - (Portland) skilled trades/artisan

May 1 - Fabricator - (Portland, Oregon) manufacturing

Apr 30 - Calling All Warehouse, Welders, And Machinist Candidates! - (West Side) manufacturing

Apr 24 - Certified Welders - Multiple Positions Available - (Hillsboro, OR) skilled trades/artisan

Apr 24 - Mig Welders - (Gresham) manufacturing

Wish I was in that state now instead of Florida.

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
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Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm
Quote antikakistocrat:

So since it went viral on the internet the Bilderberg plan has since passed to the annals of history.

So why are you still so upset about it?

delete jan in iowa
Joined:
Feb. 6, 2011 12:16 pm

antikakistocrat.....

Why don't you reinvent yourself, turn over a new leaf, find a new career. You are acting like the buggy makers when there wasn't a market for what they made..... those guys found another way.

Why are you wasting the talents you have like this? Stop playing around on the internet and create a life!!!!

You are young, this opportunity of being alive right now is so very precious, and you are wasting your chance.

delete jan in iowa
Joined:
Feb. 6, 2011 12:16 pm

Conspiracists are always winners. Their arguments have a determined flexibility whereby any new and inconvenient truth can be accommodated within the theory itself. So, embarrassing and obvious problems in the theory may be ascribed to deliberate disinformation originating with the imagined plotters designed to throw activists off the scent. One believer in a conspiracy to assassinate the Princess of Wales claimed that it was the very proliferation of absurd theories concerning Diana that first convinced her that this was MI6 at work seeking to cover up its real role in the killing. Few, however, match the schoolboy ingenuity of Korey Rowe, the producer of Loose Change, a highly popular documentary about 9/11, who, when challenged about the glaring factual mistakes in his film, replied, "We know there are errors in the documentary, and we've actually left them in there so that people discredit us and do the research for themselves."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123127032

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Bush_Wacker
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Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am
Quote antikakistocrat:
Quote Art:

Quote:

I am just sick of old people who go through life with a High School education trying to talk intelligently on subjects they know nothing about.

It really burns my butt to be forced to respond to an ad hominum like this.

Two Masters degrees. One MST and one MBA. Care to tell us about your educational background?

I have a Masters in Aerodynamics, and a Bachelors in History and Politics as well as a Bachelors in Biology.

What are your degrees in Liberal-Arts and other useless college topics ? MBA okay plenty of people get MBAs and have no idea the differences bewteen capitalism, socialism, communism, barter, etc. My dad had a term for people who held college degrees who knew not a damned thing... "educated fools." I knew a teacher once who didn't know what ammunition you use in a water pistol. Before my dad retired he saw it all the time where these college grads would be promoted to supervisors and they wouldn't have a clue as to what the job entailed.

What is MST anyway ?

I’m not into the whole academic elitism scene. I won’t comment at all regarding my education. It is totally irrevellevant. The world is loaded with educated derelicts. You can’t teach wisdom, good judgment, decency or tenacity. John Edwards is highly educated. Lincoln was self taught. There are plenty Of John Edwards types, but I don’t see many Lincoln’s around here.

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rigel1
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Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am

I have a masters degree in death. Taught by the u.s. Marine corps. With a ba in electronic engineering. Along with a lot of real world experience with self taught knowledge.

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workingman
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Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am
Quote workingman:I have a masters degree in death. Taught by the u.s. Marine corps. With a ba in electronic engineering. Along with a lot of real world experience with self taught knowledge.

"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but thus one is mine."

Semper Fi.

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rigel1
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Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am
Quote workingman:I have a masters degree in death. Taught by the u.s. Marine corps. With a ba in electronic engineering. Along with a lot of real world experience with self taught knowledge.

No, you have a masters degree in killing. Big difference. Morticians have masters degrees in death. I know many people who have a BA in Electrical Engineering but I don't know any with a BA in Electronic Engineering. You are the first.

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Bush_Wacker
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Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am
Quote Bush_Wacker:
Quote workingman:I have a masters degree in death. Taught by the u.s. Marine corps. With a ba in electronic engineering. Along with a lot of real world experience with self taught knowledge.

No, you have a masters degree in killing. Big difference. Morticians have masters degrees in death. I know many people who have a BA in Electrical Engineering but I don't know any with a BA in Electronic Engineering. You are the first.

Electrical is lights and things like that eletronic is circuit boards things like that.

workingman's picture
workingman
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Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am
Quote Art:

Here's one of 36 pages i our local Craig's List

Apr 30 - Welder and Welder-Fitters - Day Shift - (Swan Island) skilled trades/artisan

May 22 - TGAW (TIG) Welder - (Troutdale) manufacturing

May 10 - WELDER - (Clackamas, OR) manufacturing

Apr 24 - Experienced Sprayarc Welder - (Portland) general labor

May 24 - Pipe Welder/Fabricator - (SW Portland) general labor

May 23 - TIG Welder/Fab Shop - (Woodland, WA) skilled trades/artisan

Art, if you've managed to carve out a life in the Pacific Northwest it speaks volumns to your adapability, determination and overall intelligence. The Pacific Northwest is an incredibly challenging place to create a life. My hat goes off to you!

NONE of these guys have any room to knock you!!!

delete jan in iowa
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Feb. 6, 2011 12:16 pm

Art is not a welder he was showing me the list of jobs.

I must admit he surprised me. Ususally a lot of seniors are people who made it through high school got a great job out of high school, worked for 30-40 years and retired well.

Now-a-days it is impossible to do and many seniors have a hard time understanding why, and trying to explain it to most of them is an exercise in frustration to say the least.

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
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Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm
Quote Art:
Probably not a good issue to bring up
I didn't bring it up. So you are a musician, too. Life-long avocation. Compose, too. Correlates well with math skills and probably has a lot to do with spatial relations and other left-brain functions. Doesn't require school, either. Does require lots of experience, study and immersion.

It was our Anti that made an issue of education and stupidity.

(Have you posted any of your music online that I could listen to)?

Yup, getting a degree in music in college won't make one a musician. But that is also true with computer programming. You have to have talent for it.

I have a bunch of tunes, mostly political on my YouTube channel. Here's "Occupy the Future":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuVxn0RdLNc

The more jazz oriented "Earth Day at the Waterfront Park":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Er9w3HD8zk

captbebops's picture
captbebops
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

thanx for the links. The country flavor is one I'm still adapting to at my age. The Waterfront music is very pretty.

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Ususally a lot of seniors are people who made it through high school got a great job out of high school, worked for 30-40 years and retired well.
see, this is typical of today's kids who have no clue what America was like post-WWII. Formal education was the way we did it in my day. And it was easy to get. (My first term of college cost $99. I was appalled when it went to $111. Even then, textbook indenturement was a swindle). In those days, college was a goal in itself. Many of us didn't even know where we were aiming halfway through. The goal was broad exposure to a wide variety of options and broad enrichment in the ways of the world. Liberal Arts created Renaissance people. Some were able to create this atmosphere for themselves without college. Most didn't. Vocational training was there for those who knew specifically what they wanted to do and didn't need extensive exposure to the world as a way to earn a living. Of these people, those with the curiosity to seek out broad enrichment often developed an eccentric but esoteric view of the world. Some of these have given us our greatest advancements. It took all kinds.

Post-Reagan education has come to more resemble the vocational school model, only directed more toward careers that actually can't be learned without full, 4 year+ curriculae. Yes, there are a lot of educated idiots out there. Unfortunately, there are more stick-people with extensive education who can't spell, use punctuation, or tell you who Moby Dick is. But man, can they write code. That was the computer revolution of the 90s. It was good for Industry. Not so good for humanity.

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Though tuition wasn't free in Washington state it wasn't very expensive. The dorm cost more and I was attending school away from home so the latter was not an option. My folks felt hurt when I dropped out as I didn't tell them and they learned from the university. But then I was the one paying the bill not them. And I really didn't want to argue with the reason which was also that I was beginning to miss classes due to band tours so that quarter was going to be terrible grade wise. Otherwise I was an honors student in my field. Even my advisor agreed and the university even if I needed help avoiding the draft. I went partly through the draft physical I should have never attended as I had forgotten I had been sidelined in PE years earlier for "flat feet" and as soon as noticed that at the physical I was out.

My thing about education early on was that I felt I was there to learn things not get a piece of paper. One of my profs talked about the phd boards where the candidates didn't even know first year student stuff. I did a little tutoring for a family member who was getting a comp sci degree and found she had not knack for it at all but she got the paper and even a masters in it. Went back to trimming dogs for a living.

Art, I provided the two links because for a diverse selection. I know some folks don't like country/folk so I put the light jazz link there. I can write about any kind of music including symphonic and there are a number of diverse pieces there and "Republican Cry Babies" is just a jab at Boehner and Issa who are famous for their crying spells and I wrote a background pieces that "hints" at the Beatle's "Cry Baby Cry." Check out the comments for that one as a war got started there between libs and cons.

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captbebops
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Art, wow you are one of the few and the proud who actually went to college. The only other senior I knew who did, did it on the military's dime.

I grew up in the 1980s and I remember my dad and his friends always bad-mouthing those who went to college and got promoted in the corporate structure just cuz they had a paper degree even tho 3 months into their promotion they messed everything up.

By the 1990s it was understood that yeah you didn't have to go to college but then again you didn'tto have a real job either. Like our service sector economy, what a joke, it was these jobs that reinforced staying in college. Now everyone is on the same par thanks to Bilderberganomics and fractional-reserve banking.

antikakistocrat's picture
antikakistocrat
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Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm

Back in the 1970s I recall a TV PSA that showed Lincoln and mentioned that Lincoln didn't have a college degree but if you have experience there was a program where you could take some tests and get college credit and possibly even a degree. Not sure if that program is still in existence as I think the attitude now is that people need to run the hurdles nowadays whether relevant or not.

Mind you, however, that in some fields you won't get the tools you need unless you attend college. In music, since we didn't have synths and MIDI weren't available to us to hear our compositions the school had lab orchestras to play them. Nowadays one can learn orchestration on their own on their computer and just using soundfonts without a synth. Of course trying to earn a living is music is still a crap shoot and odds worse than ever given the democratization of the arts.

Computer science was taught abysmally unless you attend a few schools like Stanford, MIT or Carnegie-Mellon. I was even on a computer science advisory board for a college in the 1990s to help some desperate comp sci profs put together programs that would get their grads hired. What they were teaching at the time wasn't useful for a job. They were still teaching Pascal and the industry needed C/C++ programmers.

So in the 1990s you could get a programming job just learning out of book and be more likely to be hired than someone who took a college course. You still can BTW when it comes to moving platform targets. For instance you can't ask for 5 years experience programming the Android OS because it hasn't been around that long. Even when I hired I had to start checking HR's ads because they would put in stuff like that. LOL! These days someone at home downloading the SDK and writing some apps is more likely to have better hands on experience that with a college class.

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captbebops
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
In music, since we didn't have synths and MIDI weren't available to us to hear our compositions the school had lab orchestras to play them. Nowadays one can learn orchestration on their own on their computer and just using soundfonts without a synth. Of course trying to earn a living is music is still a crap shoot and odds worse than ever given the democratization of the arts.
ain't that the truth? Although, the masters did it all with a piano. Some had Conservatory orchestras to play their music, but the keyboard was the computer of the day. Now we have DAWs that have made it possible to create sounds that I had only dreamt about before. It still isn't much easier to get other peole to listen to it, though. I'm not sure what you mean by "democratization of the arts").

Still, excellence in music, as with any other discipline, requires combinations of opportunities and investment of time and effort that few will access. In his book Outliers, Malcolm Galdwell profiles several people who achieved excellence, Hockey players, The Beatles, a New York finance lawyer, Bill Gates. In every case, each had the advantage of extraordinary opportunities available to few. They practiced and practised. No matter the pursuit, 10,000 hours is the magic number. Simply being born in the right place at the right time had a huge impact. (He noticed, for example, that the top players in the league were born in January, February or March. The reason was quite interesting). The self-made man is a myth. Higher education helps to level the playing field. It also forces you into areas you would never have thought of.

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

"Democratization of the arts" means that anyone now has access to publish themselves due to the Internet. In the old days a record company had to be willing to sign you, spends thousands on studio and marketing a hope to make that back and a profit with your music. Indeed a crap shoot but that was a much narrower playing field. Nowadays anyone can put their music or their film on the Internet such as on YouTube but so many are doing it that it makes it hard to "stand out." There's an excellent documentary called "Press Pause Play" that examines this. It may be still on Vimeo.com.

Yes practicing and honing your skills is very important. I was a "music geek" spending untold hours practicing music and not having much of a social life. I did pay off in the better gigs just not one or two that really paid off though I came close with the leader of one famous act considering me for his next group which became even more famous.

Though I did make it to the years that would have put my pieces in the lab orchestra I played in it and learned a lot from the professors reviewing the student pieces.

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captbebops
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Nowadays anyone can put their music or their film on the Internet such as on YouTube
Recommend Soundcloud.com. Very user-friendly. You can do quite a bit for free. Take the tour. All my musician friends are using it. (I don't think it does video).

Art's picture
Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Also recommend Music Cafe at KVR. Good chance you will find people who will listen to your music.

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Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2011-01-18-littlelearning18_ST_N.htm

College may not be all its cracked up to be these days. Here in CA, many freshman have to take a year of remedial classes to get up to college level skills.

"Nearly half of the nation's undergraduates show almost no gains in learning in their first two years of college, in large part because colleges don't make academics a priority, a new report shows.

Instructors tend to be more focused on their own faculty research than teaching younger students, who in turn are more tuned in to their social lives, according to the report, based on a book titled Academically Adrift: Limited Learning on College Campuses. Findings are based on transcripts and surveys of more than 3,000 full-time traditional-age students on 29 campuses nationwide, along with their results on the Collegiate Learning Assessment, a standardized test that gauges students' critical thinking, analytic reasoning and writing skills.

After two years in college, 45% of students showed no significant gains in learning; after four years, 36% showed little change.

Students also spent 50% less time studying compared with students a few decades ago, the research shows.

"These are really kind of shocking, disturbing numbers," says New York University professor Richard Arum, lead author of the book, published by the University of Chicago Press.


He noted that students in the study, on average, earned a 3.2 grade-point average. "Students are able to navigate through the system quite well with little effort," Arum said."

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm
College may not be all its cracked up to be these days.
That is so disheartening! My theory is that this is because higher education is viewed only as an advanced phase of vocational training. Geared only for getting a job. Anything not directly targeted for that purpose is discounted as "underwater basketweaving".

Art's picture
Art
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Any education is great as long as you can pay for it yourself. Or get a library card.

lovecraft
Joined:
May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm
Any education is great as long as you can pay for it yourself. Or get a library card.
No, it really isn't. If education is merely intended to meet the needs of industry, then industry needs to be financing this vocational training

Art's picture
Art
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Art:
Nowadays anyone can put their music or their film on the Internet such as on YouTube
Recommend Soundcloud.com. Very user-friendly. You can do quite a bit for free. Take the tour. All my musician friends are using it. (I don't think it does video).

I'm aware of those and though it takes me far less time to produce a musical piece I really enjoy making the videos. I learn a lot from the latter though sometimes it exposes the weaknesses of the software. Funny thing is that some 40 years later a tune my band recorded back in 1967 made it into a motion picture, one of Adam Sandler's productions. That really took me by surprise but a British company had bought the catalog from the record company and apparently it was something the director was looking for.

For the record I don't even perform live anymore because it is too "atheletic." I played with a jazz trio in the 1970s and that was more pleasurable because you could play the same tune differently each time. It was just a local group that garned a sit down gig in a popular jazz bar. I actually made a better living doing that than musicians who were sidemen for name jazz musicians. I have no illusions about becoming a music "star" especially at this age.

I can also host music on my web site if I wanted to as so many web hosts have unlimited bandwidth for very low prices anymore.

captbebops's picture
captbebops
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

The extent of my formal education ended in high school but there are no shortage of recources out there to learn from.

WorkerBee's picture
WorkerBee
Joined:
Apr. 28, 2012 12:22 pm

You can have real life working experience in a certain trade and a college degree in a subject that has nothing to do with that trade and you have unlimited opportunities.

You can have that same real life working experience in a certain trade and no degree of any kind and they won't let you in the door.

Bush_Wacker's picture
Bush_Wacker
Joined:
Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am

Back in the late 1990s I got a call from a recruiter who was searching for a multimedia person to run an acquisitons division for a major corporation that (for some unknown reason) was getting into multimedia. Not my thing but they wanted to know if I knew of anyone. I did and knew people who would do that well but the recruiter told me that corporation (you all know of BTW) "required" a college degree. The excellent candidates I knew did not have one. IMO, companies that look at a degree over experience are not worth working for any more than one that wants drug tests (unless warranted but that is rare).

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captbebops
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Currently Chatting

The GOP war on workers has killed again...

It’s time to stop the conservative's war on working people in America.

Since the birth of our nation, conservatives have always been wary of average working-class Americans having too much political or economic power. John Adams, the second President of the United States and a Federalist (precursor to today’s Republicans), was very wary of the working class, which he referred to as “the rabble.”

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