The Illinois state Senate knows how an economy works

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Senators there are working on legislation to increase the state’s minimum wage from $8.25 an hour to $10 an hour. An analysis by the Economic Policy Institute found that more than a million workers will have more money in their pockets thanks to the minimum wage hike, and thus will have more money to spend in their local economies.

What technocrats in Europe and Republicans in the United States who are pushing austerity don’t understand is that economies function best when people are spending money – not when rich people have a lot of money sitting in the bank. Raising the minimum wage, building new infrastructure projects, and broadening the social safety net will all be effective in getting working people spending money again and getting our economy growing again. Let’s hope other states follow Illinois’ lead.

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Thom Hartmann A...
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Really? Isn't the state of Illinois a fiscal mess? Their budget sucks. Aren't companies leaving Illinois to escape the punishment?

As for minimum wage. If someone is performing a job that brings $8 dollars/hr to a company what happens when the goverment sticks its nose in and demands that the company pay $10? One of three things. Either they raise prices to account for the increased expense, the job is eliminated because it loses money or the company hires an illegal, pays him $7/yr and cheats the system.

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rigel1
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Money spent vitalizes an economy. Money hoarded stagnates an economy. Like it or not in order for an economy to work in a manner that is prosperous for both labor and corporations, money has to be distributed more evenly amongst the populous. That can be done either through higher wages and more jobs for the lower tier of a community or a higher tax on the upper tier of the community. Jobs aren't eliminated when there is demand. More spending money creates more demand. If a company cheats the system then they are going to have to pay the price eventually.

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Bush_Wacker
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Quote Thom Hartmann Administrator:What technocrats in Europe and Republicans in the United States who are pushing austerity don’t understand is that economies function best when people are spending money – not when rich people have a lot of money sitting in the bank. Raising the minimum wage, building new infrastructure projects, and broadening the social safety net will all be effective in getting working people spending money again and getting our economy growing again. Let’s hope other states follow Illinois’ lead.

Hear! Hear! I am proud of Illinois!

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Karolina
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Quote Bush_Wacker:

Money spent vitalizes an economy. Money hoarded stagnates an economy. Like it or not in order for an economy to work in a manner that is prosperous for both labor and corporations, money has to be distributed more evenly amongst the populous. That can be done either through higher wages and more jobs for the lower tier of a community or a higher tax on the upper tier of the community. Jobs aren't eliminated when there is demand. More spending money creates more demand. If a company cheats the system then they are going to have to pay the price eventually.

Sure. There are plenty of small businesses who would love to expand but they cannot. At least 50% fail. Many because they cannot meet payroll. They are barely getting by. They simply do not have the ability to "hoard" anything. What about the small family-owned drive thru that is barely paying the rent? Now the state has come in and is forcing them to pay their two high school kids 10 bucks/per hour to stock shelves. This will cost them hundreds of dollars per month. Maybe they can't afford it. What should they do?

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rigel1
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Quote Karolina:
Quote Thom Hartmann Administrator:What technocrats in Europe and Republicans in the United States who are pushing austerity don’t understand is that economies function best when people are spending money – not when rich people have a lot of money sitting in the bank. Raising the minimum wage, building new infrastructure projects, and broadening the social safety net will all be effective in getting working people spending money again and getting our economy growing again. Let’s hope other states follow Illinois’ lead.

Hear! Hear! I am proud of Illinois!

Yeah, they said they needed a major tax increase to balance their budget. They blew it. They are 8.3 billion dollars in debt after the tax hike. Who is gonna pay off their spending spree? There is no doubt that many small businesses that are teetering on the edge of survival will not be able to afford government mandated pay raises. It will cause some to fail. If you are proud of the people who drove Illinois into the ground, then your standards are incredibly low.

Check it out. The truth is painful. They are a mess.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-26/news/ct-met-illinois-state-budget-report-20110926_1_pension-costs-pension-systems-lawmakers

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rigel1
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Quote rigel1:
Quote Bush_Wacker:

Money spent vitalizes an economy. Money hoarded stagnates an economy. Like it or not in order for an economy to work in a manner that is prosperous for both labor and corporations, money has to be distributed more evenly amongst the populous. That can be done either through higher wages and more jobs for the lower tier of a community or a higher tax on the upper tier of the community. Jobs aren't eliminated when there is demand. More spending money creates more demand. If a company cheats the system then they are going to have to pay the price eventually.

Sure. There are plenty of small businesses who would love to expand but they cannot. At least 50% fail. Many because they cannot meet payroll. They are barely getting by. They simply do not have the ability to "hoard" anything. What about the small family-owned drive thru that is barely paying the rent? Now the state has come in and is forcing them to pay their two high school kids 10 bucks/per hour to stock shelves. This will cost them hundreds of dollars per month. Maybe they can't afford it. What should they do?

You can't disregard something that will help the majority just because a small percentage of business might be affected. When you pay better wages then employees have more money to spend. That increase in revenue should be more than enough to pay the extra $1.50 per hour wage for an employee. If not, maybe the business isn't meant to succeed.

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Bush_Wacker
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Quote Bush_Wacker:
Quote rigel1:
Quote Bush_Wacker:

Money spent vitalizes an economy. Money hoarded stagnates an economy. Like it or not in order for an economy to work in a manner that is prosperous for both labor and corporations, money has to be distributed more evenly amongst the populous. That can be done either through higher wages and more jobs for the lower tier of a community or a higher tax on the upper tier of the community. Jobs aren't eliminated when there is demand. More spending money creates more demand. If a company cheats the system then they are going to have to pay the price eventually.

Sure. There are plenty of small businesses who would love to expand but they cannot. At least 50% fail. Many because they cannot meet payroll. They are barely getting by. They simply do not have the ability to "hoard" anything. What about the small family-owned drive thru that is barely paying the rent? Now the state has come in and is forcing them to pay their two high school kids 10 bucks/per hour to stock shelves. This will cost them hundreds of dollars per month. Maybe they can't afford it. What should they do?

You can't disregard something that will help the majority just because a small percentage of business might be affected. When you pay better wages then employees have more money to spend. That increase in revenue should be more than enough to pay the extra $1.50 per hour wage for an employee. If not, maybe the business isn't meant to succeed.

Do you really believe that $10/hr is a livable wage in Illinois? I doubt if many could survive on $15. $10 is a cruel joke. Shouldn't the M.W. be at least $15/hr?

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rigel1
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Quote rigel1:Do you really believe that $10/hr is a livable wage in Illinois? I doubt if many could survive on $15. $10 is a cruel joke. Shouldn't the M.W. be at least $15/hr?

Happily, I have no doubt that this is just a start—but a start in the correct, moral direction!

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Karolina
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Raising minimum wage will only cause everything that is touched by or sold in a store that has minimum wage employees to be more expensive. This will have a temporaey increase in their ability to buy more items but as the prices rise to keep up with costs they will end up in the same place they started barely making it.

Companies do not hoard money, individuals do not hoard money they do save for a rainy day. But that is their right in a free society. Companies and individuals will spend they money they earn as they see fit.

The government can not legislate the poor away, they can only distibute missery and poverty equally.

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workingman
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Wow workingman, you really do drink the koolaid. You are against even the bottom of the barrel getting a little boost. Listen to yourself. You think that hardworking Americans should make even less money than they do already. What has happened to the conservative party? What happened to the true character of American brotherhood?

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Bush_Wacker
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Quote Bush_Wacker:

Wow workingman, you really do drink the koolaid. You are against even the bottom of the barrel getting a little boost. Listen to yourself. You think that hardworking Americans should make even less money than they do already. What has happened to the conservative party? What happened to the true character of American brotherhood?

I am not against people making more money I am against government forcing people into poverty and economic slavery.

What would happen to the economy if the government raised minimun wage to 400,000 a year the minimum wage of an nfl player. It would result in massive inflation the ruch would get richer and the poor would get more poor. We need the government to stop trying to legislate the poor away they only make it worse.

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workingman
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How do you think the economy and the general welfare of the US would be right now if there wasn't a minimum wage? Do you think that the country would be walking on clouds and painting rainbows? There must be a standard of some kind set that allows at the very least a chance to better ones self. Even 10 bucks an hour is only a little over 20 grand a year. My health insurance premiums alone cost almost half of that. If there is no cap to the price of neccesities then how can there be a set in stone minimum wage that doesn't change with inflation? Government is not trying to legislate the poor away, they are trying to legislate the gap between the rich and the poor. Too large of a gap and the whole house of cards is going to come tumbling down.

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Bush_Wacker
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Quote Bush_Wacker:

How do you think the economy and the general welfare of the US would be right now if there wasn't a minimum wage? Do you think that the country would be walking on clouds and painting rainbows? There must be a standard of some kind set that allows at the very least a chance to better ones self. Even 10 bucks an hour is only a little over 20 grand a year. My health insurance premiums alone cost almost half of that. If there is no cap to the price of neccesities then how can there be a set in stone minimum wage that doesn't change with inflation? Government is not trying to legislate the poor away, they are trying to legislate the gap between the rich and the poor. Too large of a gap and the whole house of cards is going to come tumbling down.

I think I would be just fine, the industrial revolution happened without government force.

What do you think it would look like if they raised minimum wage to nfl mimimums?
You can not legislate the gap away either because there will always be some people who dont save or care to or are not quailified to make lots of money.

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workingman
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Quote Karolina:
Quote rigel1:Do you really believe that $10/hr is a livable wage in Illinois? I doubt if many could survive on $15. $10 is a cruel joke. Shouldn't the M.W. be at least $15/hr?

Happily, I have no doubt that this is just a start—but a start in the correct, moral direction!

How much do you think prices will go up? How about 12 bucks for a big mac? If $15/hr is good, wouldn't $20 be better? My teenage daughter is a gymnastics coach, if they were forced to pay her 20 bucks an hour, only the rich could afford to attend. They would have no team. So goverment is going to regulate morality? Geez they could never screw that up could they? I think they regulate morality in North Korea. Why don't you go check it out before you put all of you faith in government Gods.

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rigel1
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Quote Bush_Wacker:

How do you think the economy and the general welfare of the US would be right now if there wasn't a minimum wage? Do you think that the country would be walking on clouds and painting rainbows?

No. Here is what would happen. Very few companies pay minimum wage.It is very difficult to attract employees at M.W. Even in this economy. The market determines the pay rate. I have raised three daughters and none of them ever worked for M.W. If an employer offered M.W, they would simply go somewhere that pays better. McDonalds, Walmart, Starbucks, Stride-right etc. Very few people settle for MW even for a first job. The M.W. companies are in constant turnover. Very few high school kids in their first job offer any skill that is worth ten bucks/hr. Illinois is trying to micro manage the private sector. I don't know about you, but I don't need to be micro managed.

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rigel1
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Lol.

Minimum wage should be regulated by the government in favor of the people who have to do the work to earn it.

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Karolina
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Quote Karolina:

Lol.

Minimum wage should be regulated by the government in favor of the people who have to do the work to earn it.

What do you think minimum wage should be how much inflation do you think will be caused by it.

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workingman
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Quote rigel1:
Quote Bush_Wacker:

How do you think the economy and the general welfare of the US would be right now if there wasn't a minimum wage? Do you think that the country would be walking on clouds and painting rainbows?

No. Here is what would happen. Very few companies pay minimum wage.It is very difficult to attract employees at M.W. Even in this economy. The market determines the pay rate. I have raised three daughters and none of them ever worked for M.W. If an employer offered M.W, they would simply go somewhere that pays better. McDonalds, Walmart, Starbucks, Stride-right etc. Very few people settle for MW even for a first job. The M.W. companies are in constant turnover. Very few high school kids in their first job offer any skill that is worth ten bucks/hr. Illinois is trying to micro manage the private sector. I don't know about you, but I don't need to be micro managed.

Minimum wage sets the bar. Just because a small percentage of workers actually work for that much doesn't change the fact that college graduates in specialized fields are often times making 10 dollars an hour. With a higher minimum wage then those kinds of jobs will have to pay more. It's a domino effect. Did you know that if you take only the bottom 90% of wage earners in the country , their median wage is about $30,000 dollars a year? That means there has to be millions and millions of people working for very low wages in this country. Is it any wonder that the top 10% of the country has so much more wealth individually than the bottom 50%?

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Than why don't we set the minimum wage at 80,000 for high school graduates, 180,000 for college graduates and add another 100,000 for each new degree earned or year of experence until you max out at 10 years. That why everyone makes a lot of money, unfortunately everyone would be just as broke as before because prices would rise to follow. You can not raise wages to out pace prices.

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workingman
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Quote workingman:Than why don't we set the minimum wage at 80,000 for high school graduates, 180,000 for college graduates and add another 100,000 for each new degree earned or year of experence until you max out at 10 years. That why everyone makes a lot of money, unfortunately everyone would be just as broke as before because prices would rise to follow. You can not raise wages to out pace prices.

Now you are being purposely ridiculous. There are economists who can tell you what an adequate minimum wage could be without creating massive inflation. Wages should be relative to what an average person needs to live adequately. There are too many college graduates out there making 25 thousand a year and that's not enough to even start a family and own a home. Rent has gotten almost as expensive as buying a house now. The numbers just don't add up for what is supposed to be a prosperous nation and the American dream. But you keep beating the drum for big business and rich people. I'll keep beating the drum for the average Joe.

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Bush_Wacker
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Whatever it takes to eliminate the vast difference between the people at the top, financially, from the people at the bottom, financially. That's what we need to be aiming for.

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Karolina
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Quote Bush_Wacker:
Quote workingman:Than why don't we set the minimum wage at 80,000 for high school graduates, 180,000 for college graduates and add another 100,000 for each new degree earned or year of experence until you max out at 10 years. That why everyone makes a lot of money, unfortunately everyone would be just as broke as before because prices would rise to follow. You can not raise wages to out pace prices.

Now you are being purposely ridiculous. There are economists who can tell you what an adequate minimum wage could be without creating massive inflation. Wages should be relative to what an average person needs to live adequately. There are too many college graduates out there making 25 thousand a year and that's not enough to even start a family and own a home. Rent has gotten almost as expensive as buying a house now. The numbers just don't add up for what is supposed to be a prosperous nation and the American dream. But you keep beating the drum for big business and rich people. I'll keep beating the drum for the average Joe.

College graduates that are making minimum wage probably have a degree.in a completely useless course of study like underwater basket weaving or 12th century asian poetry

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workingman
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Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am

Let me get this straight... ILL senators are being praised for attempting to raise the minimum wage because it will put more money in the hands of the people... and that is just what the ailing economy needs. If that is the case, then why did they increase the individual income tax by 67%. That increase took a lot more out of the hands of the entire working middle class than what would be put back into the ILL economy by increasing the minimum wage. The truth of the matter is ILL politicians have no clue. That is why ILL (and Chicago for that matter) is in horrible financial shape along with NY and CA.

ILL (with 2 former governors in jail at the same time) is the last state to use as a example of good social or fiscal responsibility. What a joke.

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I think most business can handle a 2 dollar an hour increase for minimum wage employees without significant inflationary effects, especially the big box and fast food industries that typically pay these low wages. The amount a consumer is willing to pay for an product before he/ she will simply not buy/ or purchase less of a product predicts the cost of something. Even necessities are subject to this basic rule. Look at gasoline over the last 4 four years. The market simply can't sustain over 4 dollar a gallon gas and anything over 3 people start cutting back on unnecessary driving. I will succeed two points: $10 an hour is no living wage for Illinios, and $15HR woulnd't even cut it in northern Illinios, and yes some very small, mostly retail business owners will probably be adversely affected, but that is also a larger testament of how large retail chains and their enormous buying power have all but pushed most small retailers out of business already. As for big gubmint manndaitun min wage at NFL player rates....not even plausible. Bad arguement. the bottom line is low wage earners spend all thier money and that helps create demand. the driving force of an unsustainable perpetual growth economy.

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J DAILEY
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Feb. 23, 2012 7:43 am

So you are admiting that you can not legislate the poor away or even a living wage. You can however legislate the rich away by making them poor.

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workingman
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Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am

We are so far from anything like "levelling" that this kind of bleat is nutty and then offensive. We can legislate that the high marginal taxation of income beyond "rich" be reinvested productively in the economy and society. The idea of ending poverty may be idealism beyond our reach, but reducing it as much as we can is a good deal, some real bang for our bucks.

Nobody has really called for the establishment of a national monastic community where we would legislate away wealth by requiring a poverty of possessions and sense of sharing and mutuality. We are barely suggesting that the economic system be rebalanced in any effective manner because the debate is so off-center and distorted. Obama really is not doing nearly enough. Refer to France.

drc2
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Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm

No, I'm saying;

, A $2HR min. wage hike is not nearly enough. The rich (the big box store and fast food CEO's etc.) are very well insulated and will remain rich regardless of a living min. wage. They will be less rich, but still very...very rich.

Those small business owners whose business model requires very low wages be paid to their employees to sustain a living wage for themselves will not survive a living wage increase

,And our economic model requires us to consume more exponentially year after year to be maintained at a livable level for most people (because it directs all wealth to 1% of the population) and as such is unsustainable over the long course of human existence because our precious resources will be wiped out. You can "legislate the poor away" by legislatively changing our ridiculous economic model. As a good start we could end usury. This current economic system will continually fail.

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J DAILEY
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Feb. 23, 2012 7:43 am
Quote J DAILEY:

No, I'm saying;

, A $2HR min. wage hike is not nearly enough. The rich (the big box store and fast food CEO's etc.) are very well insulated and will remain rich regardless of a living min. wage. They will be less rich, but still very...very rich.

Those small business owners whose business model requires very low wages be paid to their employees to sustain a living wage for themselves will not survive a living wage increase

,And our economic model requires us to consume more exponentially year after year to be maintained at a livable level for most people (because it directs all wealth to 1% of the population) and as such is unsustainable over the long course of human existence because our precious resources will be wiped out. You can "legislate the poor away" by legislatively changing our ridiculous economic model. As a good start we could end usury. This current economic system will continually fail.

Both big box stores and small business will react exactly the same with a government forced wage increase. They have two choices and will exersice both, they will raise prices as much as possible to cover the cost of the new labor fee and layoff workers that are not worth the new rate in order to keep their profit margin the same. The only result is higher cost of living with higher unemployment. Thos employed will be in the same position just at a higher pay with less purchasing power. If this new labor rate cannot be made up those two ways the small business closes their doors and everyone is fired.

Posted from phone excuse typos

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workingman
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Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am
Quote workingman:So you are admiting that you can not legislate the poor away or even a living wage. You can however legislate the rich away by making them poor.

I will admit that, sort of.

You probably can't legislate to make "rich" poor because the rich can flee with most of their wealth. Today anyway.

I am not a big proponent of the minimum wage. The problem is the hoarding. Tax the hoarded wealth and redistribute it however you please.

chilidog
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote chilidog:
Quote workingman:So you are admiting that you can not legislate the poor away or even a living wage. You can however legislate the rich away by making them poor.

I will admit that, sort of.

You probably can't legislate to make "rich" poor because the rich can flee with most of their wealth. Today anyway.

I am not a big proponent of the minimum wage. The problem is the hoarding. Tax the hoarded wealth and redistribute it however you please.

See I disagree with that people do not hoard money they save for retirement or a better life they earned it let them keep it. It is up to them to spend it as they see fit.

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workingman
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Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am

I already know you are a big fan of the Earls of Hyannis Port, but I'm not. IMO Old Joe Kennedy's "work" shouldn't continue to enable endless generations of playboys, rapists, and murderers/negligent homiciders to dominate our politics.

chilidog
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

pay attention

businesses that employ at low wages operate to make a maximum profit. there is a threshold between operation cost ,profits and price of a product/'s that can't be crossed or consumers will stop buying whatever it is the bussiness is raising the price on. if the business lays off too many workers that also cuts into profits as operations won't function properly and the risk of costly mistakes rises. there comes a point where it is cheaper to pay the wages, keep the employees, and either slightly raise the price or keep it the same at an initial loss in order to maintain maximum profits. these bussiness arn't going to close up a profitable business just because it became a little less profitable. in retail the consumer plays a big role in the cost of something by buying alot of it or none of it. if starbucks coffee was going for $7 a 1lbs bag at the local food store and then jumps to $10.50 overnight due to speculative coffee trading, people will buy less or none, and the price will adjust somewhere in the middle to maximize profits even if the profitability is less than it was at $7 a 1lbs bag. on a larger scale a bussiness may absorb the cost entirely as an increase anywhere may minimize profits as a whole.

on a slightly related subject. i don't know why Thom is so smitten with Illinios dems. they are some of the most corrupt. they are currently pushing huge austerity for all public sector workers (which won't even make a dent in deficit) instead of seeking realistic (not raising taxes) revenue streams. it seems as if you were a dem that didn't play ball you got pushed out with the redistricting. t

can anyone please teach me how to use this site. i prefer to type in word then cut and paste, but when i do everyone sees all the code at the top of my posts. also is there an e-mail function connected with this site that alerts you when someone has replied to one of your comments? so far this site is somewhat cumbersome to me in that respect. i don't have 9hrs a day to sit in front of a computer screen, and there are so many good conversations/ debates it becomes diffcult to keep track of where you have been if a few days have gone by.

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J DAILEY
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If you cut and paste a lot, its best to do on a separate software in Helvetica w/ 12 pt, then copy and paste the whole thing in. You'll be able to check spelling then too—not that you need that.

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Karolina
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LOOK THE ECONOMY IS IN THE MESS IT IS IN FOR EVERY STATE BECAUSE OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

DO ALL OF YOURSELVES A FAVOR & LEARN HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS TO FAIL AND ENSLAVE AMERICANS.

The American Dream Film-Full Length

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM

The Money Masters.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=The+money+changers&ei=Zd4QSMjvB47YqAKQtJmzBA

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antikakistocrat
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Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm

Well we can all make assumptions on what might happen. Wait and see.

I'm predicting that the fiscal disaster that is Illinois will continue or get worse. They are in big trouble.

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rigel1
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Jan. 31, 2011 7:49 am

money masters films are fantastic, haven't seen The American Dream. i'll check it out.

The Secret of OZ is another good one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI

is another good one.

even though the Fed and its global central banking cartel is a HUGE problem, the economic crisis of 08 would've still happened with the weakening then death of Glass Steagall. without regulations that " limited commercial bank securities activities and affiliations between commercial banks and securities firms." quoted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act

I agree let's kill the bank. maybe 3rd time will be the charm.

as a side note The Bank Slayer, Andrew Jackson played a big role in forming what became the democrat party

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J DAILEY
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Feb. 23, 2012 7:43 am

"J Dailey" First of all, I would like to apologize for my buddy slamming into you at a SOX game while you were trying to enter into the bathroom! We felt terrible about it then, I still feel bad about it now.

How about that Duff family!?!

Man... they must have given you fits and plenty of sleepless nights!

Illinois is a mess. Chicago is even messier.

So, J Dailey... can you tell me why you secretly privatized almost all of the commons in Chicago? I thought you were a Democrat!?! Aren't Democrats supposed to be against privatizing the commons? I thought that only Republicans like Mitch Daniels and Scott Walker did stuff like that?!?

Wait a minute... you mean BOTH parties are privatizing the commons!

Holy Crap! I've got some reading to do!

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Fletcher Christian
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Feb. 15, 2012 12:49 pm

What about the fact that the FED expands and contracts the money supply the way they see fit instead of having Congressional oversight.

Raising minimum wage does help the economy, the CEOs and upper managements of these corporations never feel it themselves anyway. No business has ever gone bankrupt cuz minimum wage has increased.

What we need to do is stop having the banks contract the money supply in the form of high interest rates and then having the banks and government engage in crony-capitalism where as the free market is deprived the working capital they need. This is why we have 45% unemployment in the private sector, currently. That's 100 million give or take.

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antikakistocrat
Joined:
Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm


The American Dream Film-Full Length

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk5ioEXlIM

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antikakistocrat
Joined:
Apr. 18, 2012 3:41 pm

The whole point of the Fed expanding or contracting the money supply is to control inflation. Can you imagine if we had to wait for congress to make a decision on that. The country would be bankrupt before it came to a vote. You can't just appoint some politician to over see what's taking place. That's basically what the Chairman is for. We have high unemployment in the private sector because the people with the money to actually produce something are making more money in the money markets with a lot less effort. We reward them for doing this when we should be discouraging it with taxes or fees. Then somebody starts screaming "that's too much government regulation!" and nothing ever changes. Just the way they like it.

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Bush_Wacker
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Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am

Noparty, I could not have said it any better. Illinois is a mess, they just raised state income taxes 66.7% and the state is still in the red! I think its 4 out of the last 6 govenors got convicted, including the last two. Yet Tomm Hartmann holds this state up as an example for others to follow? You have got to be kidding me?!?!?!?!

What's it take for this guy to recognize a rat?

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mauiman58
Joined:
Jan. 6, 2012 6:45 pm

Rigel, could not agree with you more. Their public pensions are WAY underfunded, the public workers get pensions that the rest of the taxpayers can only dream about. So what's the solution? Raise taxes by 66.7 %, soak the taxpayers even more!! And all that does is drive business and taxpayers out of the state. And still the budget is not balanced.

Scott Walker is Wisconsin is catching hell for making moves in Wisconsin to prevent Wisconsin from sliding into the mess that he sees just south of his boarder. Sorry the madness of public pensions the rest of us can only dream of has to end somehow, someway.

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mauiman58
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Jan. 6, 2012 6:45 pm

Currently Chatting

Keystone would be way worse than we thought!

We already know that the Keystone XL pipeline is a disaster waiting to happen. But, it turns out that the impact of that tar sands pipeline could be even worse than we thought. According to a new study by the Stockholm Environmental Institute, Keystone could add four times more carbon pollution to our atmosphere than the State Department originally estimated.

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