Let Greece Go

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It is time for Greece to withrdraw from the Eurozone and for the Greek people to accept the consequences. As Mencken noted, "Democracy means the average person knows what he wants and deserves to get it, good and hard."

bfgen's picture
bfgen
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Apr. 18, 2012 12:09 pm

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But then how would the banksters get all that money from the EU?

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doh1304
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Dec. 6, 2010 10:49 am

They never will, because those debts are impossible to pay...and they were designed to be that way, to bring this austerity to the common man.

Like all vermin, banksters probably will try to put up a fight to get and keep what they've laid their claim on. IMO, if countries pull out they might be threatened with war. I hope that I am wrong, and I hope that Greece and the other countries do what is best for their people!

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Karolina
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Nov. 3, 2011 7:45 pm

Much if not most of Greece's debt is held by public lending institutions, like the Eurobank and the IMF, which means that taxpayers are on the hook. Private lending institutions will have to take the rest of the hit, which means that it will be a cold day in hell before they ever make another loan to the Greek government.

Living without the possibility of private borrowing will be a memorable lesson for the Greek people.

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bfgen
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Apr. 18, 2012 12:09 pm

It won't be mattering much because right now all of Europe, including those "private lending institutions", as well as "public lending instotutions" are on their way to absolute bankruptcy.

But people still need to eat, have a roof over their heads, have access to clean water and health care and medicines—NO MATTER HOW THE OLIGARCHS & BANKSTERS HAVE SCREWED UP THE TRANS-ATLANTIC ECONOMIC SYSTEM.

It is my hope & prayer that ALL the people, in ALL of the Trans-Atlantic system will be safe, and that no war will be allowed to be started to solve the problems of the oligarchs & banksters.

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Karolina
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Nov. 3, 2011 7:45 pm

As long as there are taxpyers, public institutions never go broke

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bfgen
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Apr. 18, 2012 12:09 pm

FINALLY! They'll be taxing the rich at the pre-W.Bush level!

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Karolina
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Quote Karolina:

They never will, because those debts are impossible to pay...and they were designed to be that way, to bring this austerity to the common man.

So the people who spent billions of dollars to buy Greek bonds designed it in such a way that Greece would not pay them back? And they did this in order to force Greece to raise taxes and lower government spending?

I am having trouble grasping the logic that led you to this conclusion.

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WorkerBee
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Apr. 28, 2012 12:22 pm

The Euro was set up as a monetarist system to loot the countries and throw them away like empty shells. That's the mode of an empire.

The real question is, what is produced by that system? Are the nations growing rich in physical wealth, i.e. productive employment, health care, education? Or are all those things being sacrified to the god of money?

In the beginning it also functioned to neuter Germany so that the re-unification would not result in a productive giant by bringing East Germany up to the productive level of West Germany. And as you see, that actually went the other way... :-)

That's the best I can do of a Mother's Day ... Ciao.

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Karolina
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Nov. 3, 2011 7:45 pm

The New French govt, and the Dutch, are going to beat down the Germans, and force an end to austerity or an end to the Euro. The German Banksters stand to lose everything if they allow Merkel to let France, the Netherlands, Greece, Spain and Ireland go, so a solution will materialize as if by magic. Either inflation of the Euro, or massive stimulus paid by the Germans/ French/ Netherlands/ Italy to put people to work across the Eurozone.

Start by studying:

Y = C + I + G + NX

MV= PY and

IS-LM

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Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

The Euro was one of many steps designed to cement European integration. Some saw a unified Europe as a political and economic counterweight to both the Americans and the Chinese; others considered the Union to be permanent solution to the "German problem." Without the Euro, Europe begins to fray a bit, jeopardizing that vision. Germany unchained from its neighbors would not diminish the Bundesrepublik's economic or political power, but it would allow for unilateral actions by Berlin. Personally, I would worry if I were one of Germany's neighbors in that eventuality.

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bfgen
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Apr. 18, 2012 12:09 pm

The trouble with invasion as a means of debt collection is that the war results in damages that reduces the value of the property gained. And unlike Sweden and Norway, the average Greek citizen has a lower education, and Greece lacks large petroleum deposits, gold mines, fresh water etc. If anything, the average Greek, if conquered and now a part of the Federal German Republic will have better social programs, and more affordable healthcare, along with better educational opportunities.

In short, Greece is a shithole compared with Germany. The German Banksters ought to have known this. Done some due diligence. Get some eyeballs on what it is was they were lending money on. If they looked at Greece, Portugal and Italy as great investment areas, and thought the best way to develop them was to lend money to those govts with no conditions on where the money went, well then these banksters should see what they can collect.

OR... they can accept higher inflation, or higher spending on infrastructure for a decade. Or, watch the summer riot season bloom into an orgy of burning cities, murder and mayhem. And the German and British banksters will have only themselves to blame.

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Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

Wait a minute....are people suggesting that Germany actually would become a militaristic society again?

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WorkerBee
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Apr. 28, 2012 12:22 pm
Quote WorkerBee:

So the people who spent billions of dollars to buy Greek bonds designed it in such a way that Greece would not pay them back? And they did this in order to force Greece to raise taxes and lower government spending?

Obviously you don't understand Predatory Capitalism. The person who bought these insecurities did not buy for himself or spend his own money, he took a management fee to spend someone else's money, preferably a pension fund's. And yes, the underlying reason was to destabilize not only Greece, but the EU and hopefully even the US. The same people who created the insecurities now own the bonds that the EU has printed to fail to pay off the Greek debt. The EU debt is now so large that it can never be paid, creating an enormous source of income and power to the banksters over governments - money they would otherwise use to (for example) investigate securities fraud.

Though it seems irrelevant I strongly suggest : http://www.amazon.com/Fanshen-Documentary-Revolution-Chinese-Village/dp/0520210409 (though I do not recommend buying from Amazon) The relevant points are the descriptions of pre-revolution town economics, where a system of debt was used not for the economic benefit of the rich - who were nearly as destitute as the poor, mostly because of the very system - but to enforce their social power. Though it is called Predatory "Capitalism" it is really not an economic system, it is a social system.

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doh1304
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Dec. 6, 2010 10:49 am

Germany need not invade anybody in order to render Europe in chaos.

All Berlin need do is adopt those policies frequently championed on this Board: protective tarrifs and non-tariff trade barriers.

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bfgen
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Apr. 18, 2012 12:09 pm

Did you expect the Wall Street sellers like Goldman Sachs told buyers the Greeks couldn't pay them back while they were collecting their fees and commissions? Of course, the ratings agencies gave their blessings too.

lovecraft
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May. 8, 2012 12:06 pm

Greece will be fine, they can reinstate the drachma, and devalue it so tourists will flock and spend money the way they do in India, and Malaysia, and China. They may still be in the Euro trade zone, the same as Sweden, and Denmark are, but with a devalued currency a duty free trade zone is probably worthless anyhow. The most expenses in the future are all the ATM recalibratons. Maybe their mint can print a new Drachma to the same measurements as Euro dollars. Electronic transfers in should be no problem, as all vendors accept e-payments. Electronic out would be problematic for awhile.

I was in Brazil when they switched from Cruzeira to Real, and I never noticed. There was also a celebratory night with horns honking and some fireworks, when they threw the ruling class out.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Yep, Greece will be fine. Once a devaluation destroys the savings accounts of the Greeks and the country's lines of foreign credit dry up, their exports will soar as the rest of Europe gladly accepts its "beggar-thy-neighbor" trade policies. Celebrations and honking horns across the peninsula!

Why didn't America think of that?

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bfgen
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Apr. 18, 2012 12:09 pm
Quote lovecraft:Did you expect the Wall Street sellers like Goldman Sachs told buyers the Greeks couldn't pay them back while they were collecting their fees and commissions? Of course, the ratings agencies gave their blessings too.

Wall Street is crooked, not stupid.

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bfgen
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Apr. 18, 2012 12:09 pm
Quote WorkerBee:
Quote Karolina:

They never will, because those debts are impossible to pay...and they were designed to be that way, to bring this austerity to the common man.

So the people who spent billions of dollars to buy Greek bonds designed it in such a way that Greece would not pay them back? And they did this in order to force Greece to raise taxes and lower government spending?

I am having trouble grasping the logic that led you to this conclusion.

poly replies: It's the same sort of scheme that brought about the U.S. financial collapse. Securitize mortgages that can't be re-paid, Peddle them off as triple A investments to your clients, then place a derivative bet that they will collapse and reap the rewards.

Losers in the scheme went under. Winners in the scheme got control of additional banks and taxpayers paid them their winnings when the losers couldn't.

I once knew a man who only sold property if he knew he'd be able to repossess . Same sort of thing. He got the buyers money...and his property back every time.

There are $600 trillion in global derivative bets in a global economy that produces only $47 trillion per year. Not enough money on the planet to bail that when it begins imploding.

Don't you know how financialized capitalism works? It's a global economic suicide machine. The Bank of England estimates a loss in global economic output of up to $200 TRILLION from the 2008 fiasco...5 times the entire world's annual output. The fiascos and scams remain on-going.

Greece is just one little facet of what is unfolding.The global Great Depression of the 30's will look like boom times before all is said and done.

There was a thread, "Why Don't Dems Prosecute Bankers?". Why would they? Bush's head of the Fed was re-appointed as Obama's Head of the Fed. One of the chief banksters now has his signature on every piece of currency issued by the Treasury. He was rewarded with the title Secy of the Treasury.

If you don't like it, vote for the other wing of the Corporate/Financial Party that we call Republicans. Nothing will change. "The finance industry has effectively captured our government"- Simon Johnson, former Chief Economist International Monetary Fund.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/the-quiet-coup/7364/

The same can be said for many governments of Europe.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

.

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Poly, yesterday I watched Real Time With Bill Mahr, and one of his journalist guests was CNBC's Chief International Correspondent Michelle Caruso-Cabrera.

In the discussion, Bill Mahr & Bill Bradley were talking about the JPMorgan loss, and about how it seems that none of the new laws for regulating the banks are being followed. When one of them suggested that maybe bringing back Glass-Steagal is a possibility that might be better, Caruso-Cabrera said loudly to be heard over them that Glass-Steagall did not have anything to do with any on the things that went wrong in any of the problems in our economy now. When they questioned her statement, she gave "derivitives" to be one of the things that Glass-Steagall had nothing for. Bill Mahr muddled something about needing to get that fact-check.

I'm sure what "derivatives" are or how they work. Would you have any idea if what that journalist said is true?

I am wondering if she, having an economics degree from Welsley College, is not just another secret bankster worshiper trying to help the entire global marketplace implode as scheduled, for the benefit of ...... the stealthiest?

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Karolina
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Why the Web of Life is Dying...

Could you survive with just half of your organs? Think about it. What if you had just half your brain, one kidney, half of your heart, one lung, half a liver and only half of your skin? It would be pretty hard to survive right? Sure, you could survive losing just one kidney or half of your liver, but at some point, losing pieces from all of your organs would be too much and you would die.

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