What is the progressive stance on day traders and short selling? How about automatized trading?

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Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture

I'm just wondering.

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chilidog
What's wrong with any of

What's wrong with any of these?

Unless you're talking about naked shorts, which I think everyone opposes.  Except the guys who get away with it.

I buy stocks and I have stops.  I guess I oppose the algorithm programs that trade millions of shares in a second, or whatever volumes they accomplish.  Some human analysis should be involved.

Did they ever get to the bottom of that "fat finger" trade that sent the DJIA down 1,000 points in like 10 minutes on May 6, 2010?

 

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
chilidog wrote: What's wrong

chilidog wrote:

What's wrong with any of these?

Unless you're talking about naked shorts, which I think everyone opposes.  Except the guys who get away with it.

I buy stocks and I have stops.  I guess I oppose the algorithm programs that trade millions of shares in a second, or whatever volumes they accomplish.  Some human analysis should be involved.

Did they ever get to the bottom of that "fat finger" trade that sent the DJIA down 1,000 points in like 10 minutes on May 6, 2010?

 

All naked shorting or just what's been banned by the SEC? 

Believe it or not that was caused by Toto out in Kansas:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/business/02flash.html?_r=1&ref=waddellandreedfinancialinc

I don't know if they ever caught the "guy" who was in charge.

media_muse
What's wrong? Like the rest

What's wrong?

Like the rest of our economy there is NOT A LEVEL playing field. Or The fatties have all the advantages of being TOO FAT TO FAIL.

For one example - I'm aware of Comcast and their tricks when the trades are going down. Strange how their "allegedly" impeccable service fails moments before the end of the Wall Street Day trading. Strange how this does NOT happen to the fatty bloated bailed out traders. 

AWEmazing - We the people could do this - bail them out - while NOT having access to the same impeccable uber technology as the fatties. Apparently - despite needing to be bailed out  - they have at least figured out how to make their technology "impeccable" .

We the people are nothing more than folks with fatuous foibles - who will take whatever is the Kool-aid du jour.

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
media_muse wrote: What's

media_muse wrote:

What's wrong?

Like the rest of our economy there is NOT A LEVEL playing field. Or The fatties have all the advantages of being TOO FAT TO FAIL.

For one example - I'm aware of Comcast and their tricks when the trades are going down. Strange how their "allegedly" impeccable service fails moments before the end of the Wall Street Day trading. Strange how this does NOT happen to the fatty bloated bailed out traders. 

AWEmazing - We the people could do this - bail them out - while NOT having access to the same impeccable uber technology as the fatties. Apparently - despite needing to be bailed out  - they have at least figured out how to make their technology "impeccable" .

We the people are nothing more than folks with fatuous foibles - who will take whatever is the Kool-aid du jour.

Are you against all day trading? Day trading is important, because it provides liquidity to the markets. Automated trading really isn't a huge problem. Most automated computers try to make their money in seconds. Most people are invested in the markets for the longterm. What a computer does over a second doesn't really effect them. 

workingman
workingman's picture
They hate it you are making

They hate it you are making money with no work off the backs of workers. They do not consider anything where you have to use your brain work unless you are a professor or marxist politican.

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
workingman wrote:They hate it

workingman wrote:
They hate it you are making money with no work off the backs of workers. They do not consider anything where you have to use your brain work unless you are a professor or marxist politican.

Lots of people complain about how all our mindless jobs went to China. They want the cost of everybody else to go up so we can pay them to do a mindless task. It's like they're afraid of learning a useful skill, because it requires just a little more effort. It's kind of funny.

media_muse
No, I am NOT against day

No, I am NOT against day trading. YoU can't read my lips so here is my answer again:

Entitlement Society wrote:

Are you against all day trading? 

media_muse wrote:

What's wrong?

Like the rest of our economy there is NOT A LEVEL playing field. Or The fatties have all the advantages of being TOO FAT TO FAIL.

For one example - I'm aware of Comcast and their tricks when the trades are going down. Strange how their "allegedly" impeccable service fails moments before the end of the Wall Street Day trading. Strange how this does NOT happen to the fatty bloated bailed out traders. 

I believe day trading is important - another way for folks to be creative for their own financial well being in this spiraling decling debacle of greediness we are faced with. But NO little person can win BIG like the top CARNIVOROUS INSATIABLE UNSOCIAL PSYCHOPATHIC BANKSTERS/ TRADERS/ HEDGERS / EGOMADSTERS.

Phaedrus76
Phaedrus76's picture
Entitlement Society

Entitlement Society wrote:

workingman wrote:
They hate it you are making money with no work off the backs of workers. They do not consider anything where you have to use your brain work unless you are a professor or marxist politican.

Lots of people complain about how all our mindless jobs went to China. They want the cost of everybody else to go up so we can pay them to do a mindless task. It's like they're afraid of learning a useful skill, because it requires just a little more effort. It's kind of funny.

So, the conservatives create policies to move jobs to China, and that is natural. But any move to either compensate those who lost because of these policies is wrong.

How about we just reverse the policy of free trade, because it is too expensive.

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
A Tobin tax on transactions

A Tobin tax on transactions would make everyone who is not a trader feel better and it would reduce the deficit. London has a transaction tax of about .25%, that is a quarter of a percent. Ours could start at .075%, that's 3/4 of a 10th of a percent. Oh can you hear the squealing?? Sounds like that guy in Deliverance, just like a human making a pig sound, or is it a pig trying to sound human. 

media_muse
Hmm..me wonders about your

Hmm..me wonders about your comments here....

I wonder... where you left you mind?

Perhaps if you were a "worker" you would be aware that often times AMONG the "mindless" work is a plethora of a "mind needed" to work.

I'm wondering about you - you remind me of my last boss. At my last job my cheap stingy ass allegedly "progressive" green male boss guy finally gave me a raise. Although he called himself "boss"  - well, he was bossy, & bolstered BY testosterone so I guess that qualifies for BOSS - he thought everything he did was "mindful" and everything I did was "mindless".

But how did I get that raise? After working for the cheap ass stingy for 3 years one day after learning another computer system to keep our office going Mr. Stingy Ass commented that now I was probably going to want a raise. I said "of course not, I learned all the other programs here and you haven't given me a raise. Every time I have performed it hasn't made a difference. so I just call it "performance punishment". I perform and you punish me for it."

Mr. Stingy Ass gave a little laugh cough - almost choked because, well...what I said was true and FUNNY ! He couldn't wiggle his fat stingy ass out of that. So I got my pathetic little one time wage increase. There are now three who cover my job - 2 guys & one unguy. So now I call him Mr. Stud_pid Stingy Ass. He felt entitled, I wonder... is he is part of your Entitlement Society?

Entitlement Society wrote:

Lots of people complain about how all our mindless jobs went to China. They want the cost of everybody else to go up so we can pay them to do a mindless task. It's like they're afraid of learning a useful skill, because it requires just a little more effort. It's kind of funny.

Oh yeah, almost forgot - Mr. Stingy Ass pays the guys more than the unguys / females. He & ALL the guys were very well paid & all had health insurance as the "Entitled Executive" class. Yeaaah - let's hear it "E" - ENTITLEMENT FOR THE ENTITLELERS! YAHOOOOOO!

al3
al3's picture
Entitlement Society

Entitlement Society wrote:

Lots of people complain about how all our mindless jobs went to China. They want the cost of everybody else to go up so we can pay them to do a mindless task. It's like they're afraid of learning a useful skill, because it requires just a little more effort. It's kind of funny.

Whatever. This view is most often held by those who wave the flag and crow "freedom" like others take a breath, yet see nothing wrong with feeding a massively growing economic superpower that happens to be using authoritarianism as its "comparative advantage" against free people and economies Western democracies have taken generations to build.  Oh, but a cheaper Iphone will save us.  Oh, at that price I can buy one every year. Great!

"Let them eat cake" didn't have a good outcome then either..

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
Entitlement Society

Entitlement Society wrote:

workingman wrote:
They hate it you are making money with no work off the backs of workers. They do not consider anything where you have to use your brain work unless you are a professor or marxist politican.

Lots of people complain about how all our mindless jobs went to China. They want the cost of everybody else to go up so we can pay them to do a mindless task. It's like they're afraid of learning a useful skill, because it requires just a little more effort. It's kind of funny.

A lot of people have learned a useful skill but will never get paid for it.  Many of those "mindless jobs" were done by good men and women who worked hard all of their lives to make a better life for themselves.  Isn't that what the conservatives want us to do?  They tell us to work hard at the "mindless" tasks and leave the "useful" tasks to the movers and shakers.  Pretty soon all of the manufacturing and assembly work will be gone over seas and if you want to make a desent living you're going to have to go into debt to the tune of 50 or 60 grand in order to achieve it.  Once again Mr. America here stands up for the 1% and insults the hard working 99%.

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
Bush_Wacker

Bush_Wacker wrote:

Entitlement Society wrote:

workingman wrote:
They hate it you are making money with no work off the backs of workers. They do not consider anything where you have to use your brain work unless you are a professor or marxist politican.

Lots of people complain about how all our mindless jobs went to China. They want the cost of everybody else to go up so we can pay them to do a mindless task. It's like they're afraid of learning a useful skill, because it requires just a little more effort. It's kind of funny.

A lot of people have learned a useful skill but will never get paid for it.  Many of those "mindless jobs" were done by good men and women who worked hard all of their lives to make a better life for themselves.  Isn't that what the conservatives want us to do?  They tell us to work hard at the "mindless" tasks and leave the "useful" tasks to the movers and shakers.  Pretty soon all of the manufacturing and assembly work will be gone over seas and if you want to make a desent living you're going to have to go into debt to the tune of 50 or 60 grand in order to achieve it.  Once again Mr. America here stands up for the 1% and insults the hard working 99%.

My dad worked in manufacturing. All he has is a high school diploma. He quickly became a top manager at the firm. Then in the 80's the business dried up and the firm went under. He decided to go into real estate and get his real estate license. It was a little rough at first, but after a little while he was making six figures annually. What's the difference between him and progressives? He adjusted. He didn't expect the government to protect his job from China. He found another way to make a living. There are plenty of jobs out there just waiting for people to get certified. People are just too stubborn and too lazy to learn how to do something new. Learning is a life long process. It doesn't stop after you graduate high school and get a job in manufacturing. In a world that's always changing and always innovating nobody should feel entitled to work in the same field for 40 years.

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
al3 wrote: Entitlement

al3 wrote:

Entitlement Society wrote:

Lots of people complain about how all our mindless jobs went to China. They want the cost of everybody else to go up so we can pay them to do a mindless task. It's like they're afraid of learning a useful skill, because it requires just a little more effort. It's kind of funny.

Whatever. This view is most often held by those who wave the flag and crow "freedom" like others take a breath, yet see nothing wrong with feeding a massively growing economic superpower that happens to be using authoritarianism as its "comparative advantage" against free people and economies Western democracies have taken generations to build.  Oh, but a cheaper Iphone will save us.  Oh, at that price I can buy one every year. Great!

"Let them eat cake" didn't have a good outcome then either..

China will pass us eventually with or without our help. They have learned a great deal from studying Singapore and they want to go back to being the most powerful nation in the world. Now we can isolate ourselves from them or build a healthy relationship. 

media_muse
Hmm...feeling stubborn and

Hmm...feeling stubborn and lazy are you?

To quote your entitled sense - "In a world that's always changing and always innovating nobody should feel entitled to work in the same field for 40 years." Nor ought they expect that what worked for their dad in the 80's would work 32 years later - especially in an decimated economic arena.

Entitlement Society wrote:

My dad worked in manufacturing. All he has is a high school diploma. He quickly became a top manager at the firm. Then in the 80's the business dried up and the firm went under. He decided to go into real estate and get his real estate license. It was a little rough at first, but after a little while he was making six figures annually..... In a world that's always changing and always innovating nobody should feel entitled to work in the same field for 40 years.

Do you thing that the banking industry & the financial leaders are stubborn & lazy? They make obscenely good money and no matter how studpid & lazy they are - we hard working American taxpayers take care of them.

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
media_muse

media_muse wrote:

Hmm...feeling stubborn and lazy are you?

To quote your entitled sense - "In a world that's always changing and always innovating nobody should feel entitled to work in the same field for 40 years." Nor ought they expect that what worked for their dad in the 80's would work 32 years later - especially in an decimated economic arena.

Entitlement Society wrote:

My dad worked in manufacturing. All he has is a high school diploma. He quickly became a top manager at the firm. Then in the 80's the business dried up and the firm went under. He decided to go into real estate and get his real estate license. It was a little rough at first, but after a little while he was making six figures annually..... In a world that's always changing and always innovating nobody should feel entitled to work in the same field for 40 years.

Do you thing that the banking industry & the financial leaders are stubborn & lazy? They make obscenely good money and no matter how studpid & lazy they are - we hard working American taxpayers take care of them.

I can't think of many jobs in this country that are tougher than being a 1st year analyst for a top tier investment bank. First of all, the top banks only recruit at like the top 20 schools in the country and want kids with over a 3.7 GPA. You work over 100 hours a week and at times are expected to pull multiple all nighters in a row. Compare that to someone working at GM. Progressives like to bash those in the financial industry, but I don't think they realize how hard it actually is. In fairness, nor do the Ivy League grads who get suckered in with the promises of big salaries and bonuses. Most people can't handle it.

al3
al3's picture
Entitlement Society

Entitlement Society wrote:

China will pass us eventually with or without our help... 

I would rather them pass us without our help. 

al3
al3's picture
Entitlement Society wrote: In

Entitlement Society wrote:

In a world that's always changing and always innovating nobody should feel entitled to work in the same field for 40 years.

Except for investment bankers, right?

Entitlement Society wrote:

I can't think of many jobs in this country that are tougher than being a 1st year analyst for a top tier investment bank. .......Compare that to someone working at GM.....

Yeah, whatever.  At least GM workers can't put "crashed global economy" on their resumes.

Rodger97321
Rodger97321's picture
On the original question. As

On the original question.

As one unofficial nonspokesman for Progressives [notadem], I believe we are for honest transactions of actual stuff.

Legality is not defined by whether or not the person in charge of enforcing the laws chooses to earn their paycheck.

The word "trading" infers that there is a thing to be traded (not imaginary goods or services).  Imaginary purchases should only be made with imaginary money.

You cannot have an honest deal based of a dishonest product.  And you cannot honestly sell a thing which you do not own.

douglaslee
douglaslee's picture
A former chairman of NYSE

A former chairman of NYSE agrees with you, and wants commodities futures and derivitives to be traded through an exchange. Anything else should be considered the same as online gambling. The Tobin tax can accept the gambling notion, and the tax is equivalent to an ante, and the house's cut of the pot.

chilidog
Entitlement Society

Entitlement Society wrote:

You work over 100 hours a week and at times are expected to pull multiple all nighters in a row. Compare that to someone working at GM.

I'm thinking the compensation is relative.

I've never worked 100 hours a week, but I have worked 70 hour weeks in finance.  And when I was in college I stocked shelves in a grocery store on the graveyard shift.  I will NEVER work that hard again.

 

Bush_Wacker
Bush_Wacker's picture
  Entitlement Society

 

Entitlement Society wrote:

You work over 100 hours a week and at times are expected to pull multiple all nighters in a row. Compare that to someone working at GM.

And what do those financiers produce?  They are serving the few and the elite.  The worker at GM earns a hard living while producing something worthwhile for the general public.  That "mindless" worker does something to support the grass roots sections of the country.  Comparing both the labor involved and the results, the GM employee blows the financier out of the water.

 

 

 

 

media_muse
 Hmm....what a pile of crocky

 Hmm....what a pile of crocky contradictions you have placed before me here! From my observations most people  handle doing their job extremely productively. I guess you've missed all the talk / reports about how workers here in the US of A are the most productive in the world? Of course, they weren't talking about the investment bankers - that is another tawdry tale of usury & abuse of the utmost slackerly kind.

Mr. Entitlement - your entitlement is oozing out here - in an ugly way. You don't even seem to realize that your entitled ass didn't even realize that you blew your argument apart? You talk about how hard it is for those smart investment guys. How hard they study. How hard they work.... If they are so smart & such hard workers  why did they need us DUMB lowly sappy real worker peons to bail out their withered balls & butts? It appears they have no brains to speak of so I left that part out.

Fairness? For the gluttonous lazy cheap ass hustler usurious  He-men who siphon off the hard work of honest folks ?                         Fairness for the these cheap hustlers - who laugh at us - when they - because the governing overlords permits them - the smart lazy ass parasitic pricks to prolifically pick pocket us ?

We just don't get a much better example than this: the entitlers contradiction. They want "fairness" for them and the rest of us suckers have the "unfairness".

Fair would be for those over paid lazy immature gluttonous cheap ass hustlers to return the money they cheated and stole from us. Then, they ought to be sent into the desert for a "Survivors" training camp - a year might help their heads fall out of their butts. If that happens then I will suggest the next protocol for the redemption of their withered hearts and souls.

I wish I could laugh here but the silliness of your ignorant seriousness prevents me. I have been a business owner - 80 hours per week would be an average for me. We did manufacturing of custom ceramic tile. We employed 25 - 45 employees. When the greedy gangsters of Enron Hustlers Inc decimated the energy concerns for the state of California we managed to hold on. But I saw the demise of a long history of arts & crafts in California fade away. Many small & medium business - which actually physically produced beautiful, useful, cost effective items for sale - destroyed. Because of the hustlers at Enron & their consorts.

I am so sick of guys who think they are the smartest guys in the room, that they deserve more than anyone else because they have think they are SOOOOOOOO "smart". In reality their "smartness"  means they have NO personal ethics or morals. I am so sick of guys who can laugh and call their clients muppets or worse - because they think they are so smart. I am so sick of these salicious slimey slithering slackers.

Entitlement Society wrote:

media_muse wrote:
Do you thing that the banking industry & the financial leaders are stubborn & lazy? They make obscenely good money and no matter how studpid & lazy they are - we hard working American taxpayers take care of them.

I can't think of many jobs in this country that are tougher than being a 1st year analyst for a top tier investment bank. First of all, the top banks only recruit at like the top 20 schools in the country and want kids with over a 3.7 GPA. You work over 100 hours a week and at times are expected to pull multiple all nighters in a row. Compare that to someone working at GM. Progressives like to bash those in the financial industry, but I don't think they realize how hard it actually is. In fairness, nor do the Ivy League grads who get suckered in with the promises of big salaries and bonuses. Most people can't handle it.

You really ought to get out more - see the world. Learn about life rather than entitlement.

Sheesh, have you ever consider what our world would be like if everyone was a bankster?

Aloha...

drc2
At least "Entitlement

At least "Entitlement Society" puts the correct frame on his financeer world.  They do believe they have the right to make money out of money without any responsibility for the consequences to "the economy."  The fact that this dogma is popular does not make it true.  Money does not make money legitimately.  Money can be invested in the creation of value, but even when we look at which investments in service and production will "make money," we still have not addressed the deeper issues of value.  Cons complain about Hollywood liberals and the value of their work v. the kind of hard work ES brags about.  Having seen the insides of business schools and who gets hired for this work, I find his assessment of their minds highly inflated.  They may be excellent technicians and predators, but they have learned very little about what is of value in this world.

Day trading does not provide the liquidity the market needs.  There was a market before there was a computer.  But suppose we talk about actual investors actually making investment decisions rather than just playing programs or speed buying/selling to gain fractional advantages.  Nobody is trying to slow down real investing.  The gaming of the system does have to end.  What David Korten has taught us is that the real economy is not aided by Phantom Wealth, it is devalued by it.  He was a Wall St. vet who wondered why all the money they were making wasn't producing value on the ground.

Pierpont
Pierpont's picture
Entitlement Society wrote:Are

Entitlement Society wrote:
Are you against all day trading? Day trading is important, because it provides liquidity to the markets.
Ya ya, and we need speculators in the commodity markets for the same reason.

Pierpont
Pierpont's picture
ES wrote: What is the

ES wrote:
What is the progressive stance on day traders and short selling? How about automatized trading?

I'm just wondering.

 

As one who sees the stock market as generally diverting money from productive purposes to speculation... I think all three should be discouraged though a heavy transaction tax. The tax system should be geared to encourage productive uses of capital, not to subsidize a casino economy.

Program or automated trading reportedly now makes up the majority of trades on Wall St and takes the human element out of the market... and without that, is it even a real market anymore reflecting the views of actual people?  I don't mind giving some breaks on capital gains taxation for those who invest in IPOs etc that benefit us all... say in the area of health care... but not for those who speculate for its own sake. They should be taxed at a rate higher than labor.  

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
Bush_Wacker

Bush_Wacker wrote:

 

Entitlement Society wrote:

You work over 100 hours a week and at times are expected to pull multiple all nighters in a row. Compare that to someone working at GM.

And what do those financiers produce?  They are serving the few and the elite.  The worker at GM earns a hard living while producing something worthwhile for the general public.  That "mindless" worker does something to support the grass roots sections of the country.  Comparing both the labor involved and the results, the GM employee blows the financier out of the water.

 

 

 

 

Banker is a vary broad term. Investment banking is also a very broad term. When somebody says they are an investment banker I usually suspect they mean that they are involved with mergers and acquistitions. Merging companies takes a lot of work. 

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
al3 wrote: Entitlement

al3 wrote:

Entitlement Society wrote:

In a world that's always changing and always innovating nobody should feel entitled to work in the same field for 40 years.

Except for investment bankers, right?

Entitlement Society wrote:

I can't think of many jobs in this country that are tougher than being a 1st year analyst for a top tier investment bank. .......Compare that to someone working at GM.....

Yeah, whatever.  At least GM workers can't put "crashed global economy" on their resumes.

If technology gets to the point where it puts investment bankers out of business, tough for them. I don't see it happening anytime soon though.

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
chilidog wrote: Entitlement

chilidog wrote:

Entitlement Society wrote:

You work over 100 hours a week and at times are expected to pull multiple all nighters in a row. Compare that to someone working at GM.

I'm thinking the compensation is relative.

I've never worked 100 hours a week, but I have worked 70 hour weeks in finance.  And when I was in college I stocked shelves in a grocery store on the graveyard shift.  I will NEVER work that hard again.

 

Finance is mental, stocking shelves is physical. How difficult one is depends on the person. There's obviously a lot more to learn in finance.

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
media_muse

media_muse wrote:

 Hmm....what a pile of crocky contradictions you have placed before me here! From my observations most people  handle doing their job extremely productively. I guess you've missed all the talk / reports about how workers here in the US of A are the most productive in the world? Of course, they weren't talking about the investment bankers - that is another tawdry tale of usury & abuse of the utmost slackerly kind.

Mr. Entitlement - your entitlement is oozing out here - in an ugly way. You don't even seem to realize that your entitled ass didn't even realize that you blew your argument apart? You talk about how hard it is for those smart investment guys. How hard they study. How hard they work.... If they are so smart & such hard workers  why did they need us DUMB lowly sappy real worker peons to bail out their withered balls & butts? It appears they have no brains to speak of so I left that part out.

Fairness? For the gluttonous lazy cheap ass hustler usurious  He-men who siphon off the hard work of honest folks ?                         Fairness for the these cheap hustlers - who laugh at us - when they - because the governing overlords permits them - the smart lazy ass parasitic pricks to prolifically pick pocket us ?

We just don't get a much better example than this: the entitlers contradiction. They want "fairness" for them and the rest of us suckers have the "unfairness".

Fair would be for those over paid lazy immature gluttonous cheap ass hustlers to return the money they cheated and stole from us. Then, they ought to be sent into the desert for a "Survivors" training camp - a year might help their heads fall out of their butts. If that happens then I will suggest the next protocol for the redemption of their withered hearts and souls.

I wish I could laugh here but the silliness of your ignorant seriousness prevents me. I have been a business owner - 80 hours per week would be an average for me. We did manufacturing of custom ceramic tile. We employed 25 - 45 employees. When the greedy gangsters of Enron Hustlers Inc decimated the energy concerns for the state of California we managed to hold on. But I saw the demise of a long history of arts & crafts in California fade away. Many small & medium business - which actually physically produced beautiful, useful, cost effective items for sale - destroyed. Because of the hustlers at Enron & their consorts.

I am so sick of guys who think they are the smartest guys in the room, that they deserve more than anyone else because they have think they are SOOOOOOOO "smart". In reality their "smartness"  means they have NO personal ethics or morals. I am so sick of guys who can laugh and call their clients muppets or worse - because they think they are so smart. I am so sick of these salicious slimey slithering slackers.

Entitlement Society wrote:

media_muse wrote:
Do you thing that the banking industry & the financial leaders are stubborn & lazy? They make obscenely good money and no matter how studpid & lazy they are - we hard working American taxpayers take care of them.

I can't think of many jobs in this country that are tougher than being a 1st year analyst for a top tier investment bank. First of all, the top banks only recruit at like the top 20 schools in the country and want kids with over a 3.7 GPA. You work over 100 hours a week and at times are expected to pull multiple all nighters in a row. Compare that to someone working at GM. Progressives like to bash those in the financial industry, but I don't think they realize how hard it actually is. In fairness, nor do the Ivy League grads who get suckered in with the promises of big salaries and bonuses. Most people can't handle it.

You really ought to get out more - see the world. Learn about life rather than entitlement.

Sheesh, have you ever consider what our world would be like if everyone was a bankster?

Aloha...

Your post is extremely ignorant. Have you ever considered what the world would be like if everybody was shoe maker? You were the owner. How much did your typical employee work?

By the way, the government encouraged the sub-prime mortgages. 

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
drc2 wrote: At least

drc2 wrote:

At least "Entitlement Society" puts the correct frame on his financeer world.  They do believe they have the right to make money out of money without any responsibility for the consequences to "the economy."  The fact that this dogma is popular does not make it true.  Money does not make money legitimately.  Money can be invested in the creation of value, but even when we look at which investments in service and production will "make money," we still have not addressed the deeper issues of value.  Cons complain about Hollywood liberals and the value of their work v. the kind of hard work ES brags about.  Having seen the insides of business schools and who gets hired for this work, I find his assessment of their minds highly inflated.  They may be excellent technicians and predators, but they have learned very little about what is of value in this world.

Day trading does not provide the liquidity the market needs.  There was a market before there was a computer.  But suppose we talk about actual investors actually making investment decisions rather than just playing programs or speed buying/selling to gain fractional advantages.  Nobody is trying to slow down real investing.  The gaming of the system does have to end.  What David Korten has taught us is that the real economy is not aided by Phantom Wealth, it is devalued by it.  He was a Wall St. vet who wondered why all the money they were making wasn't producing value on the ground.

I'm sorry, but your post is simply wrong. Day trading does provide liquidity to the market. The long term investors are basically paying us to get in and out of the market. Without people constantly buying and selling their shares it would take much longer to get in and out of their position.

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
Pierpont wrote: ES wrote:

Pierpont wrote:

ES wrote:
What is the progressive stance on day traders and short selling? How about automatized trading?

I'm just wondering.

 

As one who sees the stock market as generally diverting money from productive purposes to speculation... I think all three should be discouraged though a heavy transaction tax. The tax system should be geared to encourage productive uses of capital, not to subsidize a casino economy.

Program or automated trading reportedly now makes up the majority of trades on Wall St and takes the human element out of the market... and without that, is it even a real market anymore reflecting the views of actual people?  I don't mind giving some breaks on capital gains taxation for those who invest in IPOs etc that benefit us all... say in the area of health care... but not for those who speculate for its own sake. They should be taxed at a rate higher than labor.  

If people can't sell their shares then they don't invest. The whole idea is of the market is to provide extra capital for companies, make a profit, and be able to sell your stake. What would be the point in investing in the company otherwise? The company would have to pay huge dividends which would lower their capital. The ignorance in this thread is amazing.

 

chilidog
Entitlement Society

Entitlement Society wrote:

chilidog wrote:

Entitlement Society wrote:

You work over 100 hours a week and at times are expected to pull multiple all nighters in a row. Compare that to someone working at GM.

I'm thinking the compensation is relative.

I've never worked 100 hours a week, but I have worked 70 hour weeks in finance.  And when I was in college I stocked shelves in a grocery store on the graveyard shift.  I will NEVER work that hard again.

 

Finance is mental, stocking shelves is physical. How difficult one is depends on the person. There's obviously a lot more to learn in finance.

I've done both, dick, and I tell you, the mental exhaustion pales compared to the physical exhaustion. And I KNEW that that manual job wasn't going to be my career, and I KNEW that if I ever didn't make it at the CPA firm I could still make a good living.  Stress is relative.

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
chilidog wrote: Entitlement

chilidog wrote:

Entitlement Society wrote:

chilidog wrote:

Entitlement Society wrote:

You work over 100 hours a week and at times are expected to pull multiple all nighters in a row. Compare that to someone working at GM.

I'm thinking the compensation is relative.

I've never worked 100 hours a week, but I have worked 70 hour weeks in finance.  And when I was in college I stocked shelves in a grocery store on the graveyard shift.  I will NEVER work that hard again.

 

Finance is mental, stocking shelves is physical. How difficult one is depends on the person. There's obviously a lot more to learn in finance.

I've done both, dick, and I tell you, the mental exhaustion pales compared to the physical exhaustion. And I KNEW that that manual job wasn't going to be my career, and I KNEW that if I ever didn't make it at the CPA firm I could still make a good living.  Stress is relative.

So dicky, because you've done both you have the right to speak for everybody? Some people prefer physical labor, because the mental labor becomes too stressful. To each their own.

Phaedrus76
Phaedrus76's picture
Entitlement Society

Entitlement Society wrote:

Bush_Wacker wrote:

 

Entitlement Society wrote:

You work over 100 hours a week and at times are expected to pull multiple all nighters in a row. Compare that to someone working at GM.

And what do those financiers produce?  They are serving the few and the elite.  The worker at GM earns a hard living while producing something worthwhile for the general public.  That "mindless" worker does something to support the grass roots sections of the country.  Comparing both the labor involved and the results, the GM employee blows the financier out of the water.

 

 

 

 

Banker is a vary broad term. Investment banking is also a very broad term. When somebody says they are an investment banker I usually suspect they mean that they are involved with mergers and acquistitions. Merging companies takes a lot of work. 

Yeah, piracy was a lot of work too. We used to have laws that governed what M&A firms could do, just as we have laws against piracy.

nimblecivet
nimblecivet's picture
Let's say this for ES: he

Let's say this for ES: he speaks English good.

Unfortunately, after looking over the last few posts it seems that this is one of "those" threads. They go like this: 1) a question is posed in the form of "What do progressives think of x...?" 2) the o.p. then avoids substantive response and instead 3) launches ad-hominem attacks coupled with unfounded assertions. Then, watch while the progressive members of the community attempt to construct a substantive dialogue. I didn't review the whole thread. As I expected, there are a few people "holding down the fort". That is, posting responses which state progressive responses and views for anyone reading the thread and attempting to give the o.p. at least some benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to make their case. Just from looking over the last few posts, it seems that ES makes an effort to respond to everybody. I don't know who threw the first insult, so I won't comment on people calling each other "dick", etc. It does seem as though ES is rather liberal with his use of the words "ignorant", "appalling", etc.

Note the sheer vacuous inanity of the following:

ES wrote:

I'm sorry, but your post is simply wrong. Day trading does provide liquidity to the market. The long term investors are basically paying us to get in and out of the market. Without people constantly buying and selling their shares it would take much longer to get in and out of their position.

and

If people can't sell their shares then they don't invest. The whole idea is of the market is to provide extra capital for companies, make a profit, and be able to sell your stake. What would be the point in investing in the company otherwise? The company would have to pay huge dividends which would lower their capital. The ignorance in this thread is amazing.

Quantitative easing also "provides liquidity to the market." So does Astrolube. Your point?

Funny how most people are under the assumption that "the point of the market" is to provide them with a home, honorable work, and a legacy for future generations. But I guess progressives never seem to amaze our conservative friends.

A company would not have to pay "huge dividends" unless there was a reason all of the stockholders wanted to "sell their stake" at once. Otherwise, an individual who has managed to finegle the real value of their labor (labor actually creates value unlike financial speculation), say in the form of stock options, can sell those options at whatever point is best for them without having to worry about cashing out before the next liquidity crisis.

Entitlement Society
Entitlement Society's picture
nimblecivet wrote: Let's say

nimblecivet wrote:

Let's say this for ES: he speaks English good.

Unfortunately, after looking over the last few posts it seems that this is one of "those" threads. They go like this: 1) a question is posed in the form of "What do progressives think of x...?" 2) the o.p. then avoids substantive response and instead 3) launches ad-hominem attacks coupled with unfounded assertions. Then, watch while the progressive members of the community attempt to construct a substantive dialogue. I didn't review the whole thread. As I expected, there are a few people "holding down the fort". That is, posting responses which state progressive responses and views for anyone reading the thread and attempting to give the o.p. at least some benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to make their case. Just from looking over the last few posts, it seems that ES makes an effort to respond to everybody. I don't know who threw the first insult, so I won't comment on people calling each other "dick", etc. It does seem as though ES is rather liberal with his use of the words "ignorant", "appalling", etc.

Note the sheer vacuous inanity of the following:

ES wrote:

I'm sorry, but your post is simply wrong. Day trading does provide liquidity to the market. The long term investors are basically paying us to get in and out of the market. Without people constantly buying and selling their shares it would take much longer to get in and out of their position.

and

If people can't sell their shares then they don't invest. The whole idea is of the market is to provide extra capital for companies, make a profit, and be able to sell your stake. What would be the point in investing in the company otherwise? The company would have to pay huge dividends which would lower their capital. The ignorance in this thread is amazing.

Quantitative easing also "provides liquidity to the market." So does Astrolube. Your point?

Funny how most people are under the assumption that "the point of the market" is to provide them with a home, honorable work, and a legacy for future generations. But I guess progressives never seem to amaze our conservative friends.

A company would not have to pay "huge dividends" unless there was a reason all of the stockholders wanted to "sell their stake" at once. Otherwise, an individual who has managed to finegle the real value of their labor (labor actually creates value unlike financial speculation), say in the form of stock options, can sell those options at whatever point is best for them without having to worry about cashing out before the next liquidity crisis.

Without financial speculation there is no entrepreneurship.