Thom on conservative history

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He just called hiltler conservative. Does thom know what nazi stands for? It stands for national socialist party so we have been attacked by the left.

Commonsense461
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You are incorrect and are therefore false. Hitler was an ally of Mussolini who was a right-wing facist and was in opposition to Stalin and the Communist Soviet Union. Hitler had leftists in Germany killed as he opposed them. Hitler's views on genetic superiority are similar in many ways to the views of right-wing extremists in the U.S.

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Robindell
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Robindell:

You are incorrect and are therefore false. Hitler was an ally of Mussolini who was a right-wing facist and was in opposition to Stalin and the Communist Soviet Union. Hitler had leftists in Germany killed as he opposed them. Hitler's views on genetic superiority are similar in many ways to the views of right-wing extremists in the U.S.

Then why would he call his party the national socialist Party?

Commonsense461
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Quote Commonsense461:
Quote Robindell:

You are incorrect and are therefore false. Hitler was an ally of Mussolini who was a right-wing facist and was in opposition to Stalin and the Communist Soviet Union. Hitler had leftists in Germany killed as he opposed them. Hitler's views on genetic superiority are similar in many ways to the views of right-wing extremists in the U.S.

Then why would he call his party the national socialist Party?

Because he was the ultimate liar and con artist. Duh!!!!!!!!!! He would have called his party the international red cross socialist liberal progressive right winged conservative party if he thought that would win over the country. He was evil in the truest sense of the word.

Most lunatic dictators are.

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Bush_Wacker
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No doubt Hitler thought of the "Ayran Race" as not only as a society but the only legitimate citizens of German society, and these citizens were to be the masters of all other nations, or at least as many as could be taken over and defeated. That was central to his lunacy.

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Robindell
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany#Pre-war_economy:_19...

Commonsense461
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O look... The left so desperate to distance themselves from themselves. What Hilter did was show the what any left wing policy would look like in its final form. You simple cannot have socialism without authoritarianism. Just look at the modern day Obamacare, it will collapse almost instantly without forced participation.

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Capital.0
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May. 22, 2012 2:21 pm
Quote Capital.0:

O look... The left so desperate to distance themselves from themselves. What Hilter did was show the what any left wing policy would look like in its final form. You simple cannot have socialism without authoritarianism. Just look at the modern day Obamacare, it will collapse almost instantly without forced participation.

If it collapses it will because the republican party will sabotage it. They just can't stand the thought of money they planned on diverting to the gratuitous being rediverted to those nasty needy people. Oooooh. I have to wash my hands just for typing it.

Hitler showed that racism, antisemitism, facism, and caring for only whom you believe to be "worth it" will always end in failure. That sounds a helluva lot more like right wing policy than anything the left could come up with. Of course you know that, you are just hitting the sound byte trail. Going for the evening sTROLL.

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Bush_Wacker
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Quote Bush_Wacker:
Quote Capital.0:

O look... The left so desperate to distance themselves from themselves. What Hilter did was show the what any left wing policy would look like in its final form. You simple cannot have socialism without authoritarianism. Just look at the modern day Obamacare, it will collapse almost instantly without forced participation.

If it collapses it will because the republican party will sabotage it. They just can't stand the thought of money they planned on diverting to the gratuitous being rediverted to those nasty needy people. Oooooh. I have to wash my hands just for typing it.

Hitler showed that racism, antisemitism, facism, and caring for only whom you believe to be "worth it" will always end in failure. That sounds a helluva lot more like right wing policy than anything the left could come up with. Of course you know that, you are just hitting the sound byte trail. Going for the evening sTROLL.

Any proof cause keysian economics is preety leftist

Commonsense461
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Jul. 2, 2012 8:48 am
Quote Bush_Wacker:

If it collapses it will because the republican party will sabotage it. They just can't stand the thought of money they planned on diverting to the gratuitous being rediverted to those nasty needy people. Oooooh. I have to wash my hands just for typing it.

suuuuurrrreeeee. CBO comes out with it's new score later this month with it's "New" understanding of tax/penality portion of the law. Should be enlightening.

Hitler showed that racism, antisemitism, facism, and caring for only whom you believe to be "worth it" will always end in failure. That sounds a helluva lot more like right wing policy than anything the left could come up with. Of course you know that, you are just hitting the sound byte trail. Going for the evening sTROLL.

O yea... Democrats were never racist asshats during the Civil rights filibusters. But since racism is niether a left or right policy. You would agree that expansion of the health services, abolition of market based lending and income from interest, nationalisation of industry, expropriation of land by the state without compensation, guaranteed employment and universal education are for the most part Left wing agendas.

Let alone his 1920 platform consisting of "The common good must come before self-interest.", "The nationalization of Trust (Corporations)."

regardless of the lame dismissal of Hilter as a Conman, blah blah blah..... He rode on the backs of The left and thier policies to the natural end result.

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Capital.0
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May. 22, 2012 2:21 pm

Thom tends to twist a lot of history. For the hundredth time this month he continued to rant about the economy following WW I and WW II. He must have forgotten that every scrap of metal, rubber, food, paint, etc. went into the national war effort. The war ends and everybody needed everything. The demand was there and all we had to do was shift the gun manufactures to return to making sewing machines again. No great magic there by either political party. The national highway system was actually created for national defense not for the convenience of the people.

The building of trains in China is the most idoic comparison he makes. China has a rapidly developing economy and it's population ia mostly without personal autos. Up until the last few decades there was no real need for modern form of transportation for the masses. If anything the Government benefited from the fact the population was not exposed to the outside world. The world demand for cheaper goods has forced them to move quickly to build more forms of transportation and power plants. China's government has the power and ability to do what it needs to get the job done without worrying about "snail darters" in a tiny wetlands is some remote province. Had Thom let his guest speak today he would have got an rational answer to his gotcha questions. As usual he turned into a shouting match.

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Redwing
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Quote Commonsense461:

He just called hiltler conservative. Does thom know what nazi stands for? It stands for national socialist party so we have been attacked by the left.

/quote] And Nazi Germany was a Christian nation. So were we attacked by Christians?

Thanks AGAIN CC for proving to us all that you're both an idiot and a troll.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 1:19 pm

Ok, so let's say Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco were all leftists.

What were every U.S. President from William McKinley to Herbert Hoover?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars

chilidog
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

It's a sad testament that people think nazis were anything but right wing assholes, willing to do their job for the money fascism paid them.

anonymous green
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Jan. 5, 2012 10:47 am
Quote chilidog:

Ok, so let's say Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco were all leftists.

What were every U.S. President from William McKinley to Herbert Hoover?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars

So I can't go after thom for wild statements but going after conservatives is ok

Commonsense461
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Jul. 2, 2012 8:48 am

Of the following fourteen defining characteristics common fascist regimes, as described by Dr. Lawrence Britt, one of you reich-wingers please point to those that liberals promote, or that you would find operating in a true, democratic republic (a liberal state):



1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

No, these are things that the reich-wing does, and it's what Hitler did, among other heinous crimes of a right-wing nature.

Liberals despise authoritarianism. Right-wing conservatives love it. Authoritarianism IS fascist and right-wing.

Horrifyingly enough, our own country now fits with many of those characteristics.

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote anonymous green:

It's a sad testament that people think nazis were anything but right wing assholes, willing to do their job for the money fascism paid them.

Not anymore sad than the left deluding themselves.

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Capital.0
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May. 22, 2012 2:21 pm
Quote Zenzoe:

as described by Dr. Lawrence Britt,

First you could tell me who Britt is and Why I should give a shit what he wrote. I use historical fact. Not a mental masturbation by a nobody.

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Capital.0
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May. 22, 2012 2:21 pm
Quote Commonsense461:
Quote Robindell:

You are incorrect and are therefore false. Hitler was an ally of Mussolini who was a right-wing facist and was in opposition to Stalin and the Communist Soviet Union. Hitler had leftists in Germany killed as he opposed them. Hitler's views on genetic superiority are similar in many ways to the views of right-wing extremists in the U.S.

Then why would he call his party the national socialist Party?

You'll have to read "The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich" to completely understand. This is a short summary if my memory is correct:

Hitler was a military spy assigned to go and spy on all the small party meetings occurring in Munich around 1920. One night he went to the NAZI party meeting. One of the last speakers said something about Versailles Treaty? which enraged Hitler enough to give a very firey response. The guys liked it so much they invited him to speak the next night.

He soon was the leader of their party but was hesitant to stay because he had planned to start his own party more to his liking (most likely NOT socialist!). But he became popular and influential. His main concerns were the Versailles Treaty and shrunken borders from WW1, blaming the loss of WW1 on the "backstabbers" which consisted of the Jews among others, and the reparations Germany had to pay and of course Aryan purity and German nationalism.

So, the socialist aspects of the NAZI Party were in place before he joined and they used them as a recruiting tool to get more disaffected Germans to join the party which grew very fast due to his fantastic speaking ability, his strong racist German nationalism and deporting the Jews.

Lots of the NAZIs were still firm believers in socialism but Hitler was mainly funded by a mysterious donor for years, then more and more industrialists who feared the communists and bankers and of course loved his ideas for rearming Germany. At one point Geobbels, a strong socialist, blasted Hitler for not being socialist enough or encouraging revolution. Hitler finally let him in on what was really going on which had NOTHING to do with socialism. More like fascism since the very rich were secretly funding him.

Goebbels never talked about socialism after that, just how he worshipped Hitler and would die for him. The Nazis took over the govt in 1933 and promptly arrested all the union leaders. Many of the more socialist Brownshirts were anxious for revolution to take over the businesses and department stores but Hitler soon neutralized them in the summer of 33.

------------------------------

Interesting article in Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

1919

The theme of stab-in-the-back was articulated in 1919 most prominently by General Erich Ludendorff, one of the two top German commanders. He blamed the Berlin government and the civilian population for the armistice/surrender of November 1918, saying they had failed to support him, had let him down, and had proved itself unworthy of the traditions of a fighting nation. He popularized the Dolchstoß terminology, and became a prominent right-wing leader in the 1920s.[4]

German popular reaction to the Treaty of Versailles of 1919 was highly negative. As a result of the Treaty, Germany's territory was reduced by about 13%, several million ethnic Germans came under foreign rule, even though they were the majority in many of those areas, the Rhineland was demilitarized and Allied troops occupied several areas. (seeTerritorial changes of Germany). There were also enormous war reparations to be paid over a period of 70 years, although they ended in 1931 (but were resumed after World War II). The most important aspect of the Treaty relating to the Dolchstoßlegende was the War Guilt Clause (Kriegsschuldklausel), which forced Germany to accept complete responsibility for the hostilities.

-----------------------------------------

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Erik300
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Apr. 2, 2010 9:44 am

Hitler was a nationalist his ideas where based on superiority and separation,but how can the one thing life, be separate from itself ,it can not so these ideas are the illusion .

The two biggest problems with humanity are organized religion and nationalism.You have to remember Hitler thought he was right and so did millions of Germans who went along with Hitler ,a group consciousness which speaks constantly of separation and superiority produces loss of compassion on a massive scale,and loss of compassion is inevitably followed by loss of conscience.A collective concept rooted in strict nationalism ignores the plight of others ,yet makes everyone else responsible for yours ,thus justifying retaliation ,rectification and war.

The illusions of humans are based on our old cultural stories we keep telling ourselves and we then pass those on to our children and down they go from generation to generation.

The time has come to understand our misunderstandings and transcend the world views of our culture.

namaste

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humanitys team
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Dec. 24, 2010 3:53 am
Quote Commonsense461:
Quote chilidog:

Ok, so let's say Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco were all leftists.

What were every U.S. President from William McKinley to Herbert Hoover?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars

So I can't go after thom for wild statements but going after conservatives is ok

Another idiotic argument our resident 13 year old Village Idiot actually believes is devestating. Aren't there rules here about trolls?

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 1:19 pm
Quote Zenzoe:

Of the following fourteen defining characteristics common fascist regimes, as described by Dr. Lawrence Britt, one of you reich-wingers please point to those that liberals promote, or that you would find operating in a true, democratic republic (a liberal state):



1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

No, these are things that the reich-wing does, and it's what Hitler did, among other heinous crimes of a right-wing nature.

Liberals despise authoritarianism. Right-wing conservatives love it. Authoritarianism IS fascist and right-wing.

Horrifyingly enough, our own country now fits with many of those characteristics.

3,6,8

Commonsense461
Joined:
Jul. 2, 2012 8:48 am
Quote Commonsense461:
Quote Zenzoe:

Of the following fourteen defining characteristics common fascist regimes, as described by Dr. Lawrence Britt, one of you reich-wingers please point to those that liberals promote, or that you would find operating in a true, democratic republic (a liberal state):



1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

No, these are things that the reich-wing does, and it's what Hitler did, among other heinous crimes of a right-wing nature.

Liberals despise authoritarianism. Right-wing conservatives love it. Authoritarianism IS fascist and right-wing.

Horrifyingly enough, our own country now fits with many of those characteristics.

3,6,8

Nothing but a twisting of reality could justify that response.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Among the central, fundamental values and principles of the liberal/progressive mind-set is tolerance and open-mindedness, especially with regard to race, politics and religion. For example, the McCarthy era, anti-communist paranoid persecutions were pushed by Republicans, that is, NOT BY LIBERALS. Whenever persecutions have occurred in American history, it's the conservatives who are behind it. But all movement toward tolerance, liberty and equality for minority groups has been instituted by liberals and progressives: civil rights, suffrage for women and minorities, the abolition of slavery, and on and on. It's the conservatives who have tried to block every step forward. They're the ones most violently freaked about undocumented immigrants, for example. Oh, I could go on and on, but you're really off the mark with this one.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

The "liberal media" is a conservative myth. In fact, the media in the U.S., being corporate owned, has a conservative bias and actively works to limit and censor information. This is so patently true that I'm not going to bother arguing the point.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

It is the conservative Republicans in the United States who wish to unite government and religion. They're against laws that enforce the separation of state and church. Some would like America to be a Christian theocracy. Others think America was originated as a Christian nation. That idea is not true, but they're ineducable, so why bother trying?

In short, the notion that Hitler was a liberal has no basis in fact. Everything about his regime smelled of right-wing fascism's characteristics. Look at what a regime does, not what the title of their party says about them. It's a matter of historic fact: Hitler was a Fascist: Fascism: "a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)."

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

3 is Blaming it all on bush 6 watch media malpractice 8 making gooverment the provider of all makes it a god.

Commonsense461
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Jul. 2, 2012 8:48 am

What place and time are we programming into your time machine? United States 1859? Holland 1600?

chilidog
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Commonsense, until you can overcome Dr. Britt's list with something of substance, be quiet,

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 7:21 pm
Quote Phaedrus76:

Commonsense, until you can overcome Dr. Britt's list with something of substance, be quiet,

CS is our old friend CollegeConservative, the 13 year old pretending to be a college student. He's so enthralled with his own idiocy came back to troll here under a new username. I assume he was banned.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 1:19 pm

This is another list of fascist TPoints I found on WaPo.

Short Guide To Nazi Propaganda Talking Points What's liberal and conservative? What's conservative and liberal?
For comparison, cosider talking points of the Nazis and you tell me who they sound like:
by CharasmaticMegafauna

Short Guide To Nazi Propaganda Talking Points
>>Things The Nazi Were Against:
Trade unions
Communists
"Social justice"
"Liberals"
"The liberal press"
"Socialism"
"Socialists"
"Democrats"
"Social Democrats"
"Civil Rights"
Empathy
Compromise
Homosexuals
Pacifists
Atheists
Secularists
Feminists
Pornography
Religious tolerance
Mixed marriages
Contraception
Sex education
Immigrants
Multiculturalism
Bilingual anything
Higher education except for political loyalists
Art that does not glorify the state
Darwin and teaching evolution
Einstein
Elementary teachers who don't teach nationalism
Any role except motherhood for women
University professors
People who don't support the troops
...and of course Jews

>>Things The Nazi Were For:
Pre-emptive war
State religion
Conspiracy theories
Control of the press, constant repetition of party slogans
Abolishing city governments, putting them under state control
Undermining voter's faith in elections and parliament
Reducing history to broad populist themes of white victimization
Claiming whites are the victims of racist liberals
A "spiritual" movement that creates ruthless, unwavering violence
Values education in the schools
Censorship
Reducing science education
Replacing college professors with right wing stooges
Torture
Abstinence
Early marriage
High birth rate
State control of the media, arts, and science
Personality cults
Making nationalism part of the school curriculum
Appointing businessmen to run schools
Worship of an idealized version of the past
Rebellion against "weak" authority
Blaming minorities and immigrants for everything
Invoking destiny and being judged by history
Pandering to Christians
“Positive Christianity”
Promising the cooperation of church and state
Claiming to do "God's will"

Erik300's picture
Erik300
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Apr. 2, 2010 9:44 am
Quote Phaedrus76:

Commonsense, until you can overcome Dr. Britt's list with something of substance, be quiet,

Why would I need to overcome a Fraud? Britt isn't even a Dr. he's an author. Just another lie the left likes to wrap themselves in for comfort.

Capital.0's picture
Capital.0
Joined:
May. 22, 2012 2:21 pm
Quote Erik300:

This is another list of fascist TPoints I found on WaPo.

It boggles the mind where you people dig up this drival. First... IT is not found on WaPo. Unless it buried in the comment section.

by CharasmaticMegafauna. Reallly.... You don't see a problem there.

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Capital.0
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Quote Capital.0:
Quote Erik300:

This is another list of fascist TPoints I found on WaPo.

It boggles the mind where you people dig up this drival. First... IT is not found on WaPo. Unless it buried in the comment section.

by CharasmaticMegafauna. Reallly.... You don't see a problem there.

Again, I urge you to read "The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich". It confirms Britt's list and this list from the WaPo. And American modern Conservativism has striking parallels.

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Erik300
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Quote Erik300:

Again, I urge you to read "The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich". It confirms Britt's list and this list from the WaPo. And American modern Conservativism has striking parallels.

I love it...... Here read this... This will confirm the words of a fiction author and a Band.

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Capital.0
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May. 22, 2012 2:21 pm

Commonsense461 has no common sense, though I'm sure others have pointed this out before.

Capital—Zero valid points to make, as usual.

Where do these people get mind-fucked so badly? Something so very ugly happened to them along the way that now everything they think and assume is upside-down and backwards. Where did they get their educations in history?

Eric300's lists state the facts, and, yes, what Hitler's regime supported does sound so familiar!

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Excues me

Commonsense461
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Jul. 2, 2012 8:48 am
Quote Zenzoe:

Capital—Zero valid points to make, as usual.

LOL... I should just post something from the teletubbies and call it a Valid point.

Eric300's lists state the facts, and, yes, what Hitler's regime supported does sound so familiar!

You have a funny definition of fact. You are basing that off an opinion on an opinion piece written by someone taking the name of a Band. Facts have certainly fallen far since I was in school.

O then tells me to read a book universally praised by journalist and nearly universally condemned by History scholars.

And I'm the mind fucked one here..... LMAO....

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Capital.0
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As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.

Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

Fascism is to be distinguished from interventionism, or the mixed economy. Interventionism seeks to guide the market process, not eliminate it, as fascism did. Minimum-wage and antitrust laws, though they regulate the free market, are a far cry from multiyear plans from the Ministry of Economics.

Under fascism, the state, through official cartels, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms. Licensing was ubiquitous; no economic activity could be undertaken without government permission. Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.” The consequent burdening of manufacturers gave advantages to foreign firms wishing to export. But since government policy aimed at autarky, or national self-sufficiency, protectionism was necessary: imports were barred or strictly controlled, leaving foreign conquest as the only avenue for access to resources unavailable domestically. Fascism was thus incompatible with peace and the international division of labor—hallmarks of liberalism.

Fascism embodied corporatism, in which political representation was based on trade and industry rather than on geography. In this, fascism revealed its roots in syndicalism, a form of socialism originating on the left. The government cartelized firms of the same industry, with representatives of labor and management serving on myriad local, regional, and national boards—subject always to the final authority of the dictator’s economic plan. Corporatism was intended to avert unsettling divisions within the nation, such as lockouts and union strikes. The price of such forced “harmony” was the loss of the ability to bargain and move about freely.

To maintain high employment and minimize popular discontent, fascist governments also undertook massive public-works projects financed by steep taxes, borrowing, and fiat money creation. While many of these projects were domestic—roads, buildings, stadiums—the largest project of all was militarism, with huge armies and arms production.

The fascist leaders’ antagonism to communism has been misinterpreted as an affinity for capitalism. In fact, fascists’ anticommunism was motivated by a belief that in the collectivist milieu of early-twentieth-century Europe, communism was its closest rival for people’s allegiance. As with communism, under fascism, every citizen was regarded as an employee and tenant of the totalitarian, party-dominated state. Consequently, it was the state’s prerogative to use force, or the threat of it, to suppress even peaceful opposition.

If a formal architect of fascism can be identified, it is Benito Mussolini, the onetime Marxist editor who, caught up in nationalist fervor, broke with the left as World War I approached and became Italy’s leader in 1922. Mussolini distinguished fascism from liberal capitalism in his 1928 autobiography:

The citizen in the Fascist State is no longer a selfish individual who has the anti-social right of rebelling against any law of the Collectivity. The Fascist State with its corporative conception puts men and their possibilities into productive work and interprets for them the duties they have to fulfill. (p. 280)

Before his foray into imperialism in 1935, Mussolini was often praised by prominent Americans and Britons, including Winston Churchill, for his economic program.

Similarly, Adolf Hitler, whose National Socialist (Nazi) Party adapted fascism to Germany beginning in 1933, said:

The state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property. (Barkai 1990, pp. 26–27)

Both nations exhibited elaborate planning schemes for their economies in order to carry out the state’s objectives. Mussolini’s corporate state “consider[ed] private initiative in production the most effective instrument to protect national interests” (Basch 1937, p. 97). But the meaning of “initiative” differed significantly from its meaning in a market economy. Labor and management were organized into twenty-two industry and trade “corporations,” each with Fascist Party members as senior participants. The corporations were consolidated into a National Council of Corporations; however, the real decisions were made by state agencies such as the Instituto per la Ricosstruzione Industriale, which held shares in industrial, agricultural, and real estate enterprises, and the Instituto Mobiliare, which controlled the nation’s credit.

Hitler’s regime eliminated small corporations and made membership in cartels mandatory.1 The Reich Economic Chamber was at the top of a complicated bureaucracy comprising nearly two hundred organizations organized along industry, commercial, and craft lines, as well as several national councils. The Labor Front, an extension of the Nazi Party, directed all labor matters, including wages and assignment of workers to particular jobs. Labor conscription was inaugurated in 1938. Two years earlier, Hitler had imposed a four-year plan to shift the nation’s economy to a war footing. In Europe during this era, Spain, Portugal, and Greece also instituted fascist economies.

In the United States, beginning in 1933, the constellation of government interventions known as the New Deal had features suggestive of the corporate state. The National Industrial Recovery Act created code authorities and codes of practice that governed all aspects of manufacturing and commerce. The National Labor Relations Act made the federal government the final arbiter in labor issues. The Agricultural Adjustment Act introduced central planning to farming. The object was to reduce competition and output in order to keep prices and incomes of particular groups from falling during the Great Depression.

It is a matter of controversy whether President Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal was directly influenced by fascist economic policies. Mussolini praised the New Deal as “boldly . . . interventionist in the field of economics,” and Roosevelt complimented Mussolini for his “honest purpose of restoring Italy” and acknowledged that he kept “in fairly close touch with that admirable Italian gentleman.” Also, Hugh Johnson, head of the National Recovery Administration, was known to carry a copy of Raffaello Viglione’s pro-Mussolini book, The Corporate State, with him, presented a copy to Labor Secretary Frances Perkins, and, on retirement, paid tribute to the Italian dictator.

About the Author

Sheldon Richman is the editor of The Freeman: Ideas on Liberty at the Foundation for Economic Education in Irvingtonon-Hudson, N.Y.

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LysanderSpooner
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The Republican conservatives voted against the Disclosure Act yesterday and several times now which would require disclosure of what corporation is donating money to them.

Put this into the context of Mussolini's definiton of Fascism.

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

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Erik300
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Quote Erik300:

The Republican conservatives voted against the Disclosure Act yesterday and several times now which would require disclosure of what corporation is donating money to them.

Put this into the context of Mussolini's definiton of Fascism.

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

Couldnt unions fit in that same definition.

Commonsense461
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Jul. 2, 2012 8:48 am
Quote Erik300:

The Republican conservatives voted against the Disclosure Act yesterday and several times now which would require disclosure of what corporation is donating money to them.

Put this into the context of Mussolini's definiton of Fascism.

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

The left attempting to violate the first amendment ... shocking. Protecting a persons right to free speech isn't a merging of state and corporate power.

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Capital.0
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So you take a libertarian, “free” market think tank, with an anti-democratic bias that puts them in alliance with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and other right-wing organizations, and lo and behold, you get propaganda intended to change the meaning of fascism. This corrupting of the language by distorting history and definitions to fit the libertarian view, wishes to twist the historic meaning of fascism from a right-wing, authoritarian political mind-set into a liberal/progressive one. "No, Fascism is what liberals do...!" OMG. Nuts.

Quote Wikipedia:

In 1946, FEE (Foundation for Economic Education) was founded by Leonard Read of the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce, Donaldson Brown of General Motors Corporation...

Leonard E. Read (September 26, 1898 – May 14, 1983) was an American economist and the founder of the Foundation for Economic Education, which was the first modern free market think tank in the United States.

Propaganda experts. Corporate-friendly liars.

Look at your author's statement: “...The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power...” My dictionary has this: “Fasces: a bundle of rods containing an ax with the blade projecting, born before Roman magistrates as an emblem of offical power.It says nothing about collectivism. “Official power” is authoritarian, not collectivistic.

There, you see, begins the distortion that supports your author's libertarian opinion that fascism must be liberal, based on his belief that liberals subjugate the individual to the group. Thus he must insert the word “collectivism.” This is how propaganda works, by corrupting the language with lies.

Regardless, Hitler’s regime was not “collective,” by any means. It was an authoritarian, top-down system, where both the individual and collective voice of people, all citizens, were subjugated to the authority at the top.

Put your quotes in quotes next time.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Capital.0:
Quote Erik300:

The Republican conservatives voted against the Disclosure Act yesterday and several times now which would require disclosure of what corporation is donating money to them.

Put this into the context of Mussolini's definiton of Fascism.

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

The left attempting to violate the first amendment ... shocking. Protecting a persons right to free speech isn't a merging of state and corporate power.

Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT SPEECH!

Besides, the Disclosure Act would not prevent them from cash corrupting the govt! We have a right to know who it is just like when you must use your real name in a letter to the editor.

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Erik300
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Apr. 2, 2010 9:44 am
Quote Erik300:

Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT SPEECH!

O look... Somebody who hasn't read the Supreme Court Ruling and instead relys on getting thier information from clearly ignorant and bias sources.

If only the Supreme Court had made the claim that Corporations are People. But they didn't. They did however say that corporation are run and operated by PEOPLE. And it is those people can not have thier 1st amendment rights violated by thier association to a corporation. That Bob citizen is the same person as Bob CEO.

We have a right to know who it is just like when you must use your real name in a letter to the editor.

YOU do not have the right to know jack fucking shit about how or why I spend my money. I find it pathetic that you would willingly infridge on the rights of americans out of childish fear of the boogyman.

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Capital.0
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Had a lovely conversation with sanity, reason and respectful disagreement with Paleo-con a while ago. It was so refreshing to converse with an intelligent and sane conservative. What has come up out of the ooze here gets tiresome so fast. Zenzoe, hats off to your civility and willingness to parse this crap.

Capital and Zero keep adding up.

drc2
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Apr. 26, 2012 11:15 am
Quote drc2:

Capital and Zero keep adding up.

So what have we go so far presented from the Left. A Dr. Britt who turns out isn't a Dr. but a fiction novelist, Some ramblings from some person named CharasmaticMegafauna and a book that makes History scholars cringe. And this sums up the Left's Available "facts" they use to support thier claims.

O... least we forget you..... You offer nothing except trolling adhoming.... Left in a Nutshell.

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Capital.0
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May. 22, 2012 2:21 pm

Tiresome. We quote a lot of sources and respect actual journalism and physical evidence. We can evaluate bias, but are as prone as the average person to liking what we agree with more than what we don't. Still, taking seriously points of substance is different from continuing to debate with trivia. What we and I in particular find less than worth our time is the sophistry. You may be oblivious, but that is what it is about. You are not the con with whom I can have a good discussion, so I would rather that you found your own home ground to occupy.

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 11:15 am
Quote Zenzoe:

So you take a libertarian, “free” market think tank, with an anti-democratic bias that puts them in alliance with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and other right-wing organizations, and lo and behold, you get propaganda intended to change the meaning of fascism. This corrupting of the language by distorting history and definitions to fit the libertarian view, wishes to twist the historic meaning of fascism from a right-wing, authoritarian political mind-set into a liberal/progressive one. "No, Fascism is what liberals do...!" OMG. Nuts.

Quote Wikipedia:

In 1946, FEE (Foundation for Economic Education) was founded by Leonard Read of the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce, Donaldson Brown of General Motors Corporation...

Leonard E. Read (September 26, 1898 – May 14, 1983) was an American economist and the founder of the Foundation for Economic Education, which was the first modern free market think tank in the United States.

Propaganda experts. Corporate-friendly liars.

Look at your author's statement: “...The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power...” My dictionary has this: “Fasces: a bundle of rods containing an ax with the blade projecting, born before Roman magistrates as an emblem of offical power.It says nothing about collectivism. “Official power” is authoritarian, not collectivistic.

There, you see, begins the distortion that supports your author's libertarian opinion that fascism must be liberal, based on his belief that liberals subjugate the individual to the group. Thus he must insert the word “collectivism.” This is how propaganda works, by corrupting the language with lies.

Regardless, Hitler’s regime was not “collective,” by any means. It was an authoritarian, top-down system, where both the individual and collective voice of people, all citizens, were subjugated to the authority at the top.

Put your quotes in quotes next time.

Politically, collectivism is by definition coercive. I have no objection to voluntary collectives such as the kibbutz, the monastery, the co-op, etc. I do object to coercively or involuntarily being made a part of a collective. That's the difference between libertarians and everybody else.

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LysanderSpooner
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote drc2:

Tiresome. We quote a lot of sources and respect actual journalism and physical evidence.

Bull..... Shit..... you do. You are a blind hate filled ideolog. Here we are having a wonderful discussion of Thom often cited Hitler was conservative. Which clearly he was not. Nor were the people who rose him to power. As I said, It is the natural evolution of the left policies that garner that type of rampant authoritarianism. Citing even Obamacare and it forced participation in what could easyly be discribed as facist.

And what do I get in return for this insightful, Fact laced epiphany. A bunch of crap as stated above. The same viseral response I get when the left is confronted with thier own racist pasts. Is history doomed to repeat itself......

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Capital.0
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May. 22, 2012 2:21 pm
Quote LysanderSpooner:
Quote Zenzoe:

[quote=Wikipedia]

In 1946, FEE (Foundation for Economic Education) was founded by Leonard Read of the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce, Donaldson Brown of General Motors Corporation...

Leonard E. Read (September 26, 1898 – May 14, 1983) was an American economist and the founder of the Foundation for Economic Education, which was the first modern free market think tank in the United States.

Leonard Read beleve that any action that is peaceful should be permitted. Doesn't sound like a fascist to me.

"The second example involves a little-known Read essay which is one of the most profound and thought-provoking pieces on war that has ever been written: "Conscience on the Battlefield." Published at the height of the Korean War, the essay resulted in a significant drop in financial support for FEE. For it focused on the moral responsibility of the individual citizen for the wrongful acts of his government — in this case, the moral responsibility of the individual soldier for participating in foreign wars waged by his government.

Three decades later, Read decided to republish "Conscience on the Battlefield." Many supporters told him, "Leonard, if you do this again, it will cost FEE dearly in financial support." Leonard's response: "Publish the essay."

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LysanderSpooner
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote LysanderSpooner:

Labor conscription was inaugurated in 1938.

I never heard this term before. As this indicates this was before the invasion of Poland, I'm presuming this was forced labor by Jews, communists, homosexuals, and other "enemies of the state."

http://www.historyplace.com/specials/personal/hut5.htm

chilidog
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote drc2:

Had a lovely conversation with sanity, reason and respectful disagreement with Paleo-con a while ago. It was so refreshing to converse with an intelligent and sane conservative. What has come up out of the ooze here gets tiresome so fast. Zenzoe, hats off to your civility and willingness to parse this crap.

Capital and Zero keep adding up.

Yes, Capital times Zero ='s zero. The thing that amuses me about Cap is that he flings a lot of terms against the wall, and nothing sticks; none of the words he misuses even have the substance of shit. What I want to know is how does someone grow up in the U.S. and not know that Hitler was on the conservative, extreme end of the political spectrum, that is, a right-wing Fascist? 'Tis a puzzlement!

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Capital.0:
Quote Erik300:

Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT SPEECH!

O look... Somebody who hasn't read the Supreme Court Ruling and instead relys on getting thier information from clearly ignorant and bias sources.

If only the Supreme Court had made the claim that Corporations are People. But they didn't. They did however say that corporation are run and operated by PEOPLE. And it is those people can not have thier 1st amendment rights violated by thier association to a corporation. That Bob citizen is the same person as Bob CEO.

We have a right to know who it is just like when you must use your real name in a letter to the editor.

YOU do not have the right to know jack fucking shit about how or why I spend my money. I find it pathetic that you would willingly infridge on the rights of americans out of childish fear of the boogyman.

So you think it advances democracy to have 17 Republicon billionaires spend more in an election than the rest of the 300 million Americans combined? And without anybody knowing who it is? What if its a Chinese, Iranian or Korean billionaire?

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Erik300
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Currently Chatting

The Death of the Middle Class was by Design...

Even in the face of the so-called Recovery, poverty and inequality are getting worse in our country, and more wealth and power is flowing straight to the top. According to Paul Buchheit over at Alternet, this is the end result of winner-take-all capitalism, and this destruction of the working class has all been by design.

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