Could this be contributing to cities going bankrupt?

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Eight months on the job, 52 years old, = $204,000/year pension.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-01/police-chief-s-204-000-pension-shows-how-cities-crashed.html

Redwing's picture
Redwing
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No, Linda, you've been hypnotized by numbers and poisoned with words.

The real reason is that a generation on Manchurian Americans were sent on a fool's mission to destroy America from within, to make sure every social program was perverted, to waste tax money wholesale, to subvert any attempt by Obama to turn our Nation around and head back to sanity.

X my Real American l*l

anonymous green
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Jan. 5, 2012 11:47 am

Probably, after 30 years, retirement at 90% of income isn't all that excessive. That's plenty of time for employer/employee contributions to be made into a trust fund. Government employees often don't qualify for Soc. Security. Their pension deductions go elsewhere. Ditto railroad employees.They don't contribute to Soc. Security, and don't receive it.

A chunk for 4 years of service is excessive. It's become the American way of doing things...equating large salaries, pension bribes and golden parachutes with performance.

It's simply an imitatation of the corporate world, isn't it?

Probably cities could find a police chief within their own police force ranks...at say double the wage of the cop on the beat...and retirement after 30 years on the police force like any other cop..

When people buy into the model that huge salaries are justified, this is what happens, isn't it?$200,000 a year plus after 4 years is simply following the corporate executive model we've bought into.

When taxes on income/expenditures are now collected by the Chinese rather than American cities, counties and states, revenues plunge. That's just how it is. It's just another effect of outsourcing well-paying jobs..

You probably won't ever see that brought up on your nightly news. Instead, what you'll get is an occassional excess to explain it all..

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I still do not understand allowing pensions to get collected before age 60. For public employees, including military. I know guys I went to high school with who retired at 39, with full pensions. Makes no sense.

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Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

Maybe they started work at age 9.

The military allows a retirement after 20 years. Retirement pay is higher if you stay in longer. Join at 19, retire at 39. Maybe they figure if you've managed to live that long in the military, you shouldn't push your luck.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Quote anonymous green:

No, Linda, you've been hypnotized by numbers and poisoned with words.

The real reason is that a generation on Manchurian Americans were sent on a fool's mission to destroy America from within, to make sure every social program was perverted, to waste tax money wholesale, to subvert any attempt by Obama to turn our Nation around and head back to sanity.

Have to disagree. Those on the Liberal to Left spectrum are fools to ignore any public sector pension abuse. These pension funds must be actuarially sound. The article didn't say whether the guy contributed to the pension fund before his hire. But typically workers get some percentage of their salary depending on how long they've worked... in my town it's 80% after 40 years. But where it's not fair is if the pension is based on their last job. So if someone does a lot of overtime or rises to a high paying position like a chief of police… then they get back way more than they ever contributed. And while I don't want any 60 year old cops jumping over fences chasing kids, playing with guns, or engaged in high speed chases… if they retire at 55, it should be at a rate that recognizes they have 10 years of work life ahead in some other field.

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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

The pension funds were just fine until the poison pills of California Prop 13 and the republican poison pills from Bush took effect.

Bake the proof (poison) into the pudding.

The rug was pulled out from under the America that Republicans didn't want to thrive.

The part they wanted was given all the funding, on an 'emergency' basis, which was based on fraud, and consisted of fraud.

Anyone willing to whore themselves to the right-wing made out like bandits, tax-free.

Reading, typing, texting or cut-and-pasting history doesn't help you understand history.

Words can prove anything, defined thusly, and numbers are just as misleading when used to confabulate results.

anonymous green
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Jan. 5, 2012 11:47 am

Nobody likes to hear of these types of things, but I guess it's OK if your city or state is not facing bankruptcy? And if you rail against entitlements or social safety nets?.....as in Governor Rick Perry's "retirement" earning him another $92,000 a year pension?

Perry's also eligible for Social Security and lifetime health free healthcare.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-politics/2012-presidential-election/perry-retires-boost-pension-pay/

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al3
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Quote anonymous green:The pension funds were just fine until the poison pills of California Prop 13 and the republican poison pills from Bush took effect.

Bake the proof (poison) into the pudding.

Prop 13 was what... way back in 78? If this guy is 52 now, what was he then? 18? Given Prop 13 has been around all that time without cities going bankrupt I think the bigger problem is the recession. But either way, these pension plans should be actuarially sound and allowing someone to get 92% at 52 of a job they only had for 8 months IS crazy... good times or bad… and even in states without something like Prop 13.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

I cant argue with you, but a Governor's pension at $92,000 vs a police chief 8 months on the job and gets $204,000 for life? As was stated early in the article “We didn’t have very many people looking out for the taxpayers when these deals were negotiated,” San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed, 63, said in a telephone interview.

Well it's about time somebody looks out for the taxpayers interest.

Pensions starting at 62 same as SS is fine with me. The article also pointes out this is not a California issue. We will all be facing the underfunded pension issue in the near future.

A better option

http://www.jillstein.org

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Redwing
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Quote Redwing:

I cant argue with you, but a Governor's pension at $92,000 vs a police chief 8 months on the job and gets $204,000 for life? As was stated early in the article “We didn’t have very many people looking out for the taxpayers when these deals were negotiated,” San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed, 63, said in a telephone interview.

Well it's about time somebody looks out for the taxpayers interest.

Pensions starting at 62 same as SS is fine with me. The article also pointes out this is not a California issue. We will all be facing the underfunded pension issue in the near future.

A better option

http://www.jillstein.org

I have no problem with massive pension reform, including starting at 62. The pension calculation tables were obviously expecting the future "prosperity" that trickle down economics and tax cuts promised.

My problem is why nobody on the right wants to "look after the taxpayers' interest" when it's businessmen ripping off the taxpayer?

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al3
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

The problem here in CA is that the local governments didn't set aside money for pensions. Rather than giving raises that show up in a headline, they gave generous pensions which are buried in budgets. Also, law enforcement especially, people pad their retirements with high paying jobs in their last couple years. They are also allowed to save years of vacation and sick pay to make hundred's of thousands on their last year which also raises their retirement pay since it is usually based on your highest 3 years. Law enforcement officers also have a tendency to go on disability in their last year so only half their pension is taxed.

DynoDon
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Jun. 29, 2012 10:24 am
Quote al3:
Quote Redwing:

I cant argue with you, but a Governor's pension at $92,000 vs a police chief 8 months on the job and gets $204,000 for life? As was stated early in the article “We didn’t have very many people looking out for the taxpayers when these deals were negotiated,” San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed, 63, said in a telephone interview.

Well it's about time somebody looks out for the taxpayers interest.

Pensions starting at 62 same as SS is fine with me. The article also pointes out this is not a California issue. We will all be facing the underfunded pension issue in the near future.

A better option

http://www.jillstein.org

My problem is why nobody on the right wants to "look after the taxpayers' interest" when it's businessmen ripping off the taxpayer?

The public sector is being paid with MY money. The business sector is private money. If it is a corporation that issues stock I have the option voting the current board out or not buying stock in that particular company. If it is a privately held corporation I can choose to not do business with them. In this case the police chief belongs to all the taxpayers in that city and the city council and/or mayor admitted there were mistakes made.

A better option

http://www.jillstein.org

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Redwing
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Quote DynoDon:

The problem here in CA is that the local governments didn't set aside money for pensions. Rather than giving raises that show up in a headline, they gave generous pensions which are buried in budgets. Also, law enforcement especially, people pad their retirements with high paying jobs in their last couple years. They are also allowed to save years of vacation and sick pay to make hundred's of thousands on their last year which also raises their retirement pay since it is usually based on your highest 3 years. Law enforcement officers also have a tendency to go on disability in their last year so only half their pension is taxed.

Like Sergeant Rivera of the Holy Lake County Sheriff Department, who kidnapped me two years ago with his friend Officer K, lied to a doctor and told him I was insane, and recorded me and everyone in the ER on his secret microphone in the process.

He 'retired' this year, with a back injury to boot. I'm sure he'll be just fine. Probably smoking some more of the weed that never made it to the evidence room, for pain, not just for fun anymore.

Lake County is asking for more tax money now, but lo and behold, Vector Control was found to have a million dollars slushed away, even though all the numbers on the County Budget add up every year.

We need to follow what used to be our money, and take it back, before paying any more taxes.

Anyone like Mitt who's been cheating, well, they should be made to pay, so we don't have to for a year or so.

And don't forget, it's National Kiss My Ass Month, all Month, August, 2012.

anonymous green
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Jan. 5, 2012 11:47 am
Quote anonymous green:

Like Sergeant Rivera of the Holy Lake County Sheriff Department, who kidnapped me two years ago with his friend Officer K, lied to a doctor and told him I was insane

I think Sergeant Riveria may have been on to something. I am now starting to understand your irrational posts.

A better option

http://www.jillstein.org/

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Redwing
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Quote Redwing:
Quote al3:
Quote Redwing:

I cant argue with you, but a Governor's pension at $92,000 vs a police chief 8 months on the job and gets $204,000 for life? As was stated early in the article “We didn’t have very many people looking out for the taxpayers when these deals were negotiated,” San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed, 63, said in a telephone interview.

Well it's about time somebody looks out for the taxpayers interest.

Pensions starting at 62 same as SS is fine with me. The article also pointes out this is not a California issue. We will all be facing the underfunded pension issue in the near future.

A better option

http://www.jillstein.org

My problem is why nobody on the right wants to "look after the taxpayers' interest" when it's businessmen ripping off the taxpayer?

The public sector is being paid with MY money. The business sector is private money. If it is a corporation that issues stock I have the option voting the current board out or not buying stock in that particular company. If it is a privately held corporation I can choose to not do business with them. In this case the police chief belongs to all the taxpayers in that city and the city council and/or mayor admitted there were mistakes made.

So, you don't mind your tax money being stolen by the business sector. Granted, the public worker unions are much more crude and more public in the way they get it, as evidenced by your link. I agree this is ridiculous. However, the business sector, those heroic "job creators" are much more clever and clandestine in how they steal it, but they do get it too. Seems you don't mind that. To me, they both need to be called out.

However, finding and explaining corporate theft of taxpayer money to a normal joe blow on the sidewalk is a lot more difficult, given the front groups and other secret ways they hide it and mask it. It takes a little effort. I'll bet many of the Tea Partiers who carry signs and shout "Down with unions!" consideration of this has never entered their minds. Too bad.

i suggest you read any piece from David Cay Johston to acquaint youself with the ways wildly profitable corporations and their execs help themselves to the trough of public money.

Regarding this subject all I ask from conservatives is acknowledgement that work needs to be done in the corporate sector too and ways we can attack it also.

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al3
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Redwing:
Quote anonymous green:

Like Sergeant Rivera of the Holy Lake County Sheriff Department, who kidnapped me two years ago with his friend Officer K, lied to a doctor and told him I was insane

I think Sergeant Riveria may have been on to something. I am now starting to understand your irrational posts.

A better option

http://www.jillstein.org/

You're so right Linda, Jill Stein would make a great Sheriff. But President? That's an agent provocateur speaking!

So X my lovely l*l.

anonymous green
Joined:
Jan. 5, 2012 11:47 am

Redwing wrote:

The public sector is being paid with MY money. The business sector is private money. If it is a corporation that issues stock I have the option voting the current board out or not buying stock in that particular company. If it is a privately held corporation I can choose to not do business with them. In this case the police chief belongs to all the taxpayers in that city and the city council and/or mayor admitted there were mistakes made

poly replies:. Unless you own controlling interest in a corporation, you probably have only an option to sell your stock. Hopefully, not at a loss. Maybe buy a generator and tell the power co. to kiss off.

As for tax codes, and the like. they are like global warming. they set in motion events that will come to fruition many years after the fact. Economies don't turn on a dime without huge government intervention.

A middle class can't be disappeared over-night. There would be a revolt. It has to be a slow process. A million here, a million there.

Now it's the government workers turn to join in the exodus. "Raise all boats" is now "Sink all ships".

I agree the police chief pension is hokey pokey, but i don't see it as being the norm that can be implied in a blanket manner.

As for the cop on the beat, we can lower his wages/pensions and go to the third world "rent-a-cop" system. Give a cop $20, and he throws your neighbor in the cooler...unless your neighbor reverses that and offers $25.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote al3:My problem is why nobody on the right wants to "look after the taxpayers' interest" when it's businessmen ripping off the taxpayer?

Ya, where's the right when it comes to not pissing money away on interest. We The People spent 2.9 TRILLION on interest during the Bush Junta... and the Right is silent.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Quote DynoDon: Law enforcement officers also have a tendency to go on disability in their last year so only half their pension is taxed.

Uh? Haven't heard that one. But I have heard of State Cops here in Mass doing lots of overtime their last few years to boost their pension. Pensions should be based on base pay, not including OT. They're already getting time and a half for that. I don't want any overworked cop playing with guns or involved in high speed chases.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Quote Redwing:The public sector is being paid with MY money. The business sector is private money.
And those golden parachutes aren't tax deductable?

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

This is why Chicago with a Democratic Mayor and former Obama hack are going to cut pensions. The city is going broke and union pensions are BIG reason.

http://www.wifr.com/news/headlines/Top_100_Illinois_Govt_Pensions_125165...

Top 100 Illinois Gov't Pensions

CHICAGO (TUA) -- A just-released study by Taxpayers United of America of the Top 100 pensions received by retired government employees in Illinois, funded by the state’s pension programs, reveals “absolutely astounding” cash payouts, according to the Vice President of TUA.

“Our study shows that as of April 1, 2011, not only has the number of retired Illinois government employees receiving pension benefits of over $100,000 a year climbed to 5,294, an increase of 22% from June 30, 2010, but that the pension payouts to the top 100 government retirees are astronomical by any standard,” said Christina Tobin, TUA Vice President.

“Once again the largest pension went to Tapas K. Das Gupta, formerly of the University of Illinois at Chicago. His pension is larger than the salary of many company presidents in the private sector. He received an annual pension of $414,471. That comes out to an astounding payment of $34,539 a month.”

“The top 10 recipients of this top 100 list are all former employees of the University of Illinois at Chicago,” said Tobin. Number two on the list, Edward Abraham, received an annual pension of $402,630 -- $33,553 a month, and number three, Riad Barmada, pulled in an annual pension of $386,334 -- $32,194 a month.”

“Number 11 on the list is a retired employee of a public high school, Henry S. Bangser, formerly of New Trier TWP HSD 203. His lavish, gold-plated annual pension was $261,681 -- $21,807 each month.”

“Springfield Democrats and Gov. Patrick Quinn (D) pushed through a huge, temporary increase in the state personal income tax of 67%. Those hard-earned taxpayer dollars from the tax hike are being funneled into the state pension programs that are providing such luxurious lifestyles for these retired government employees.”

“The pension system for retired government employees in Illinois is broken and can’t be salvaged,” said Tobin. “Putting all new government hires into social security and 401(k)s would eventually eliminate unfunded government pensions.”

“In addition, requiring Illinois government employees and retirees to pay for one-half of their health care premiums would save an estimated $230 billion over the next 35 years. An average $6.6 billion income tax reduction would enable the expiration of the 67% temporary income tax surcharge."

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sheep4thom
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Jul. 26, 2012 2:36 pm

Some would hand their parachute to a child, an old woman, a destitute homeless man.

Some would push them out of the way, and follow the rats deserting the Mothership.

"Who the fuck are you?" P Townshend (living)

anonymous green
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Jan. 5, 2012 11:47 am
Quote sheep4thom:

This is why Chicago with a Democratic Mayor and former Obama hack are going to cut pensions. The city is going broke and union pensions are BIG reason.

No Linda, you're wrong once again. The poison pills of tax-free living for the rich, and tax-free war profiteering out to bankrupt every social program is the BIG reason.

anonymous green
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Jan. 5, 2012 11:47 am

A man of courage is also full of faith. - Cicero

I love those who can smile in trouble, who can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but they whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves their conduct, will pursue their principles unto death. - Di Vinci

I suspect you lack basic honor, courage, commitement to defend anything. You are one of those smelly want to be anarchists marching in the streets with bandana over your face looking for a cause. Why because you cant understand how someone as smart as you didnt get a fair shake. You want fair, because it comforts your fragile ego. You couldnt have possibly failed in life because you lacked skill, drive, or knowledge. It had to be someone else's doing. Someone had to take something from you and now you lead a sad bitter life. Again I will pray for you, and hope you someday find a way to end your self loathing American hating feelings.

sheep4thom's picture
sheep4thom
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Quote sheep4thom:

I love those who can smile in trouble, who can gather strength from distress, and grow brave by reflection. 'Tis the business of little minds to shrink, but they whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves their conduct, will pursue their principles unto death. - Di Vinci

I suspect you lack basic honor, courage, commitement to defend anything. You are one of those smelly want to be anarchists marching in the streets with bandana over your face looking for a cause. Why because you cant understand how someone as smart as you didnt get a fair shake. You want fair, because it comforts your fragile ego. You couldnt have possibly failed in life because you lacked skill, drive, or knowledge. It had to be someone else's doing. Someone had to take something from you and now you lead a sad bitter life. Again I will pray for you, and hope you someday find a way to end your self loathing American hating feelings.

I wasn't a fan of Di Vinci, he tried to copy his good twin, Da Vinci, but he couldn't paint, sculpt, or deisgn quaint flying machines.

He ended up as a spy for the Church, turning in witches and Jews for money.

anonymous green
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Jan. 5, 2012 11:47 am

You're probably right. It couldn't have anything to do with the laying off of massive amounts of public sector workers who paid for stuff with the income that they had and paid income taxes as well. It couldn't have anything to do with the housing crash and the massive drop in property taxes collected which generally account for over 25 percent of a State's revenue. It couldn't have anything to do with the massive drop in corporate income taxes collected due to the Bush tax cuts. It couldn't have anything to do with the general recession and lack of jobs that cuts way back on sales taxes and income taxes collected. It must be pension plans that are bankrupting cities nation wide.

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Bush_Wacker
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Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am

Laying off of workers in Chicago, New York, DC, and Detroit. Laid off by Democrats?

Housing crash caused by Barney Frank refusing to regulate Fannie/Freddie? Housing crash caused by Fair Housing Act that let welfare be used on a no background check mortgage? Or the stupid people that didnt read mortgage and bought a house they couldnt afford on 5/1 ARM?

We have the highest corporate income tax and yet revenue from corporations drops. Why because business leaves, keeps profits offshore, or moves out of the US. Maybe you should punish them more so the few that are left get out too?

Every state/city I read about is drowning in a sea of public sector union pensions and health benefits they cannot pay. They will either have to reduce benefits, make workers pay more, or file bankruptcy to get out of the union contracts. That is democrat and republican. Even Rham in Chicago wants union concessions.

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sheep4thom
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Jul. 26, 2012 2:36 pm

Yes, guys who went in to the military straight out of school. Down in South Folrida years ago, I knew many guys in their early 40's, who were retired Navy and busy drinking themselves to death.

But, on police,, and military people, I do not believe they should stay in the job until 60, but they ought not be able to collect a pension until at least 55.

Firefighters on the otherhand, tend to die quite young, so I have no problem with them getting early pensions and generous disability plans.

And the in AZ, the rules are you have to work at least 5 years to get enough points for a pension, and then you get 10% of your salary. The longer you work, the more points you accumulate, the more points the higher your percentage of income you get for a pension. The percentage is based on the average income of your last 5 years.

The problem is the high wage professions, like judges, prosecutors, and agency heads and police chiefs who work a few years, and are granted points as a "reward" for leaving the private sector to work for the govt blow up the liabilities, but do not work long enough in the position. So they only contribute for 2- 4 years, but then get large pensions.

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm
Quote Pierpont:

And those golden parachutes aren't tax deductable?

Parachute pay is taxable income payable in the year the income was received. If you were referring to a corporations tax deductability of payouts, I could care less how they handle it. They have their stockholders to answer to.

A better option

http://www.jillstein.org/

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Redwing
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Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am

From above: Housing crash caused by Barney Frank refusing to regulate Fannie/Freddie? Housing crash caused by Fair Housing Act that let welfare be used on a no background check mortgage? Or the stupid people that didnt read mortgage and bought a house they couldnt afford on 5/1 ARM?

poly replies; Probably Fannie/Freddie shouldn't have been privatized...with a government guarantee. They functioned just fine as government agencies.

No one forced lenders to loan money to people who couldn't pay it back. They loaned the money, collected their fees,, and quickly sold loans they knew would go bad.

It was derivative bets on the loans that caused the financial meltdown. Had the $80 billion in bad loans been bailed or guaranteed by government, derivative bets never would have come into play.

$80 billion to bail the loans.. According to an audit of the Fed, $7 trillion to bail the derivative players instead of nipping it in the bud.

if a penney represents a billion bucks...the difference is a stack 6 inches high vs. one the height of a ten story building. It was the greatest single transfer of wealth, bottom to top, in the history of the world..

Try to understand what really happened rather than finding scapegoats. It isn't that difficult.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

.

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Barney Frank 2005 - speaking against Republican bill to regulate housing. "housing is not a bubble"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhxzNX738s

Democrats - Fannie/Freddie "there is not crisis"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbIb75JdwY

sheep4thom's picture
sheep4thom
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Jul. 26, 2012 2:36 pm

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2010/06/11/greenspans-no-housing-bubble-p...

"Greenspan's 'No Housing Bubble' Prediction, 5 Years Later

This week marks the fifth anniversary of then-Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan's observation that there was no housing bubble to worry about:

"Although a 'bubble' in home prices for the nation as a whole does not appear likely, there do appear to be, at a minimum, signs of froth in some local markets where home prices seem to have risen to unsustainable levels.... Although we certainly cannot rule out home price declines, especially in some local markets, these declines, were they to occur, likely would not have substantial macroeconomic implications.""

Ayn must be so proud.

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