The GOP - making the poor sacrifice - so that the rich can get wealthy

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Now that House Republicans have officially claimed the mantle as the part of tax raisers – passing a massive tax hike on 15 million working class Americans this week, they’ve drawn the ire of religious leaders across America. Sixty faith leaders penned a letter to GOP leadership – urging them to not let tax credits expire that help working class families.

In legislation voted on this week, Republicans called for the elimination of the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit. In other words, Republicans repealed tax breaks for the working class, while not touching a single tax break that let’s a corporation like GE pay nothing in taxes – or gives an oil corporation like ExxonMobil billions in tax subsidies.

The faith leaders called the move, “simply unconscionable.” Republicans like to claim the Party of moral values, but there’s nothing pious about making the poor sacrifice so that the rich can get richer.

Thom Hartmann Administrator's picture
Thom Hartmann A...
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Comments

Isn't Immelt, GE CEO, a friend of the President and even chair his Jobs Council? Hmmm...

iggyvern's picture
iggyvern
Joined:
Aug. 2, 2012 2:03 pm
Quote iggyvern:

Isn't Immelt, GE CEO, a friend of the President and even chair his Jobs Council? Hmmm...

Hasn't Immelt been CEO of GE for over ten years? Hmmm...

JTaylor's picture
JTaylor
Joined:
Mar. 19, 2012 2:04 pm

It is all about priorities, and lobbyists. And the working poor have shitty lobbyists.

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

Obama had Imelt of GE replace Volker (of the famous and hatd Volker Rule) on his Economic Advisory Panel

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-21/obama-taps-ge-s-immelt-for-econ...

BTW, GE has outsourced more jobs than MITT ROMNEY and Bain Capital but since GE support Obama, he gets a pass?

With conservatives you get trickle down prosperity (opportunity to prosper)

With liberals/progressives you get trickle up poverty (everyone most be equally miserable)

sheep4thom's picture
sheep4thom
Joined:
Jul. 26, 2012 2:36 pm
Quote Thom Hartmann Administrator:

Now that House Republicans have officially claimed the mantle as the part of tax raisers – passing a massive tax hike on 15 million working class Americans this week, they’ve drawn the ire of religious leaders across America.

Doesn't this violate the Grover Nordquist Pledge?

Let me see if I get this straight. Raising taxes for the top 1% clearly violates the Nordquist pledge, while raising taxes for the bottom 15 million doesn't?

al3's picture
al3
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

There are none so brave as those that will vote to lower taxes.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-rubio-taxes-olympia...

Just imagine the attack ads this hero will face at election time.

chilidog
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Nope, as the pun implies, with "trickle down" you get "pee-ons." "Trickle up" is not accurate, of course, the bubbling ferment and the fertility of the earth are not about austerity or endless toil to get meager harvests. Power really does organize from the bottom up rather than come from above through saviors or masters. Liberals believe in bottom-up authority and shared opportunity and prosperity. Individual initiative and creativity is nurtured, but less for ego and greed than for meaning and purpose with sufficient wealth to be enjoyed. People get to do work they can believe in and enjoy rather than sell their souls to make money. Real happiness rather than rat race misery. Rat race winners rarely model happiness and enjoyment of the pleasures of life.

With conservatives you get filthy rich people who have utter contempt for the masses of the poor. The vaunted "opportunity to prosper" is shut down to the inheritance of lucky genes and the Horatio Alger super achiever who conquers all obstacles. We love these heroic overcoming stories, but we go on to proclaim that they prove that Opportunity is alive and well when they show the opposite. Were the Big O the American Way, lots of deserving strivers would be able to rise up from less favored economic and cultural starting points. There would be few dynasties. The generational expection to move on up would be realized. But the numbers point in the other direction.

Bain is a particularly vile end of venture capital. The good kind is interested in the creation of value, not in how to extract money from a troubled business, or from a good but vulnerable one. Financialism is the perversion of banking from the public utility of commerce into the crooked casino. The image of vampires is more accurate than vultures. Romney was taught this crap in Biz School and he may believe that legal is moral. He may think that his business education taught him how to run an economy. Unfortunately for him, what he was taught and what made him a ton of money out of his inherited first million was blessed by the High Priests of Wall St. and Law. It was not challenged by the electable side of the Democratic Party. I can see how Mitt remained oblivious to any criticism or to the lessons of the crash of '08.

He puts himself up for this examination by claiming to be qualified to be President. Given the recent Republican measure for "Presidential timber," I can see how the cardboard would believe itself fully qualified and ready to serve.

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm
Quote JTaylor:

[quote=iggyvern]

Isn't Immelt, GE CEO, a friend of the President and even chair his Jobs Council? Hmmm...

Hasn't Immelt been CEO of GE for over ten years? Hmmm...

He is still a personal friend of the President and his company is one of the leading jobs exporters. Talk about hypocrits.]

Oops, haven't quite figured the quote tag out.

iggyvern's picture
iggyvern
Joined:
Aug. 2, 2012 2:03 pm
Quote Thom Hartmann Administrator:In legislation voted on this week, Republicans called for the elimination of the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit.
I find this statement odd as I am constantly told here that only Republicans lie and this statement can only be described as a lie.

The issue is letting the enhancements Obama passed two years ago to the two programs expire, not eliminate the programs all together.

WorkerBee's picture
WorkerBee
Joined:
Apr. 28, 2012 12:22 pm

The rich aren't very good history students are they? They should revisit France about 1790 and Russia about 1917 to get a clue. You can't oppress the masses just so you can be wealthy.

captbebops's picture
captbebops
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I probably shouldn't complain about using 15% of my income to pay for upgrading the sewage treatment plant in this town. However, for someone earning a million a year that translates to 1/1000th % of their income. It's their "fair share" with an equal bill..

The millionaire's equivalent for me would be one cent.

A truely equal burden for the wealthy would be most appreciated. it would lighten my own and give me quite a bit more to support local businesses in the community...like the local glass shop...where I could obtain glass to repair all these broken window panes that even my slumlord evidently doesn't have the money to do.

When the majority are broke, rents can't be high enough to maintain the rentals. A town full of derelict buildings is going to be one result of that.

I find it interesting that the political ad debates here are...."who is the most conservative to really support our values?" Evidently, the highest values in Missouri are poverty and crumbling homes.

Trickle down...you don't have to love it, but in Missouri at least, you have to learn to deal with it.

One way: It's 40 cents cheaper to make unleavened bread. It's tough and not very good for making toast or sandwiches., but it does serve the purpose of filling the tummy.

People are astounded here when I tell them it's the only place I've ever lived where there is a high tax on food. State tax, county tax, local tax.

The burden on the poor is high...diminishing their diet. The burden on the wealthy in that respect doesn't exist. However, the food tax is considered fair because all pay it. The effect of many suffering, and a few not, is called "fair".

Captbebops notes the times in history when growing suffering was turned into pitchforks. American's don't have pitchforks anymore. They've been replaced with guns.

I'm assigned here for a year...and can hardly wait until time is up.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"..

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Any kind of flat taxes such as sales tax, exise tax (on tires and such), gasoline tax federal, state and local), auto registration(the same on used cars as it is on new ones) is a regressive tax that hits the working poor and elderly on fixed incomes unfairly. A tax on foods is horrendously inhumane.

What is even sadder is that the increases in food prices in the past 2 years is just the beginning. With the widespread drought conditions, and the havoc it is reeking on just the corn crop, with the many food stuffs that are made from corn and the diversion of much of that corn to the energy consuming, polluting, ADM profiteering, government subsidized ethanol production, food costs are going to continue to experience more and more inflationary pressures. High fuel costs in the production of food, high fuel costs in the transport of food, and lower production of food is going to create a crisis in the near future. Although, I am by no means wealthy, I wil gladly help you, Polycarp2.

I cannot remember who said this. The worth of a society is found in how they treat their weakest and most vulnurable members.

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm

Well, I'm here for two purposes.

One: What is the state of Christianity in today's America....in its heartland?

Two What are the real life experiences of the nation's poorist and what are church reponses to it?. "Help" would interfere with that. Any help has to come from the community I'm embedded in without them knowing my religious affiliations.

As an adjunct, I'm observing climate and biological responses to it

It's very clear to me here, that burdens of infrastructure maintenance and governance have shifted downwards to those least able to pay for them. The hardships imposed are very real and on-going.

I found it interesting that the closest Islamic Center was offering free glaucoma testing for those having no access to health care. Christian churches here are pretty silent on things like that.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I think that Christianity is under attack in America today. But for the wrong reasons. I think that the Christian institutions are not doing enough to eleviate the plight of the poor and sick. For that they need chastizing. As for muslims and their sharia law I will not give any respect to nor do I think any of it should be recognized by any governmental entities. Their in lies a cognitve dissonance that the left cannot deal with because of their supposed "tolerance" of societal anomalies and muslim treatment of women and homosexuals. They cannot deal with that dissinance head-on, so they pretend it doesn't exist. I am not going to ignore it or accept it. That my not be the Christian thing to do, but they (muslims) should not be given special priviledges because are so-called leaders feel the need to kiss their asses.

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm

Conservatives don't believe in human rights because even if they do not happen to be especially rich, they have an emotional alliance with the upper class. Torys were against the War for Independence and the breaking away of the colonies from Britain. The rhetoric of freedom is just a way of tricking the population into accepting the absurdly ridiculous lopsided difference in income and wealth, and the undue political influence that emanates from this skewed level of privilege.

I have found that many Christians are the least Christian of people. Here in northern Indiana, there is a local news story that is one that has occurred any number of times already in churches, of failed morality on the part of clergy. Hammond is home to what is generally considered to be one of the largest churches in the country, the First Baptist Church, an independent, fundamentalist congregation. Some people believe that they have the largest Sunday School enrollment of any church. The former pastor was fired for "sinning." He has been accused on the basis of evidence of having had an intimate relationship with an underaged girl. The local newspapers where I live have a steady trickle of letters written by religious (i.e., Christian) fanatics, who complain about the breakdown of "traditional values" and often imply that this supposed breakdown includes having politicians who are not traditional-minded (i.e., fundamentalist or at least evangelical Christians). These people simply disregard that the seperation of church and state is one of the foundations on which the country was founded and is in the Constitution. We have people who are interested in a theocracy not because they are truly religious, but because they couls attach themselves to the rulilng class and would feel as if they are imposing their will on others.

Someone on this site once answered a comment I made by saying that there are different "types" of conservatives. That is a fine point that may, at least, be worth noting.

Robindell's picture
Robindell
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

You are right polycarp2, we are not tending to the things that really matter and have not for a longtime.

Brookesmith
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Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm

hey, Robindell, I have an uncle that is a retired ordained Methodist minister, PHD. Some years ago, in a large church, 4000+ members and very wealthy, they had a charity progrm to help needy families with their groceries. He made them come before him and state their plight and decided if they needed help or not. If, he deemed them in necessity he might give them $20.00 in help.

It was later discovered he was having an affair with his music ministers wife, whom he had been counseling them both. It cost him his longtime marriage and he later wound up marrying her. She went through the seminary and is now a Methodist minister. He is retired and very wealthy but a liberal to the core. BTW, he is one of my favorite uncles. lol

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm
Quote Brookesmith:

I think that Christianity is under attack in America today. But for the wrong reasons. I think that the Christian institutions are not doing enough to eleviate the plight of the poor and sick. For that they need chastizing. As for muslims and their sharia law I will not give any respect to nor do I think any of it should be recognized by any governmental entities. Their in lies a cognitve dissonance that the left cannot deal with because of their supposed "tolerance" of societal anomalies and muslim treatment of women and homosexuals. They cannot deal with that dissinance head-on, so they pretend it doesn't exist. I am not going to ignore it or accept it. That my not be the Christian thing to do, but they (muslims) should not be given special priviledges because are so-called leaders feel the need to kiss their asses.

Actually, Muslims are bound by the Christian/Jewish scriptures as well as the Koran. They have a pretty full plate. When it comes to the divinity of Christ, they have a different interpretation of scripture..

A Muslim when referring to Jesus will do so in this manner, "Jesus, bless his holy name...." He's acknowledged as a prophet. of God. Christians don't even refer to a being they consider divine in that manner.

They pray forehead to the ground...in the manner done by early Christians. That's where they picked up the practice. We do the same at the monastery.They are called to prayer as often as Christians once were. We still are at the monastery.Traditions are maintained.

We interrupt work to maintain the traditions rather than tossing out the traditions in order to work. Besides, several hours of work a day are sufficient for a comfortable life when the full fruits of one's labor are retained..Muslims have found a way to work and maintain traditions.begun under Christianity. I have an admiration for that, though I don't share the same faith.

Most American Muslims don't support Sharia law and do share many of the same intolerances shared by many Christians. If they go through a period of Reformation as Christians once did, they may be more tolerant than Christians. It's a later, more enlightened era.

Allah is the God of Abraham. The same God of Abraham shared by Christians and Jews.

Special treatment...no. Treatment under the Constitutional guarantees...yes. Same for Buddhists, Taoists, Jews, Christians and Wickens, etc.

Perhaps you should get to know some Muslims on a personal level. Most aren't wearing horns or sporting a tail.

As for Christianity being under attack...they've attacked themselves. My neighbor Charles is a Christian,." by their fruits you shall know them". I'm hoping to one day meet another here.

I'm afraid my report on the state of Christianity in America will probably confirm my abbot's greatest fears. At least, at this point it will. It seems quite dead....left as a corpse on the steps of the church.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

.

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

The Jihad is not a tangential but a central duty. It is the "struggle" to spread Islam, but everywhere, to remove all the obstacles -- including such obstacles as the legal and political institutions that exist here in the US, that endorse freedom of religion, speech, etc that are flatly contradicted by both the letter and the spirit of the Shari'a, and among the greatest of those obstacles are the Constitution of the United States.

It does not recognize basic human rights. Do not be brainswashed by its propaganda. I will not acknowlege the validity of a cult or religion that gives a goat more rights that a woman or feels compeled to kill all non-believers. And I do not believe we should be making special consessions for their so-called "religious" practices, as we try to kick out all references to Christianity in our schools and public places.

At some point, one’s personal experience trumps the constant drumbeat of multicultural propaganda emanating from the elite media and the educational establishment. Look what is begining to take place in Europe.

Brookesmith
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Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm

Have you read the Koran....that puts jihad in its proper context?

The word means struggle. This context is a pretty good one:

  • A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible
  • The struggle to build a good Muslim society
  • Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam, with force if necessary

Defending islam isn't quite the same thing as a pro-active war of aggression, is it? Injuring an un-armed man or a woman or child in defense of Islam is prohibited. The Trade Center tragedy was the sure way for a Muslim to enter the Muslim hell, not Paradise. It violated a basic tenent of islam.

War of aggression in the name of religion has been more of a Christian stance throughout history, hasn't it?

There is no Muslim society any more than there is a Christian one. The window dressings of "don'ts" found in both obscure the just society promoted at the core of both..

As for dress codes, use of make-up, etc. Read your bible. It's similar. We just ignore it. I've no problem adhering to it or ignoring it. It's window dressing that has nothing to do with the core teachings of Christianity.

The American Muslims I know don't beat their wives or run around with bombs hanging from their belts . Some nuts under a false cloak of the religion do that just as some Christians nuts do similar things like blowing up abortion clinics or murdering doctors.

If you'd like to ban a religion because some adherents are fundamentalist nuts, then probably Christianity ought to be banned as well....and Judaism, Hinduism, etc.

That would, of course, take an Amendment to the Constitution.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

.

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

But we should not allow it to take priority and bend over backwards to kiss muslim asses by making special concessions to accomdate them, while we ban Christian practices from our public schools and places. We should not grant them special privledges.

Do we ignore the muslim brotherhood-hamas connection to CAIR and the anti-American comments made by their leaders?

On the contrary, Islam as an ideology is TOTALLY contrary to Western and American values.

Islam is NOT a religion, it is totalitarian political ideology that should not be allowed to gain a foothold in our country.

Muslims are either: (1) ignorant of the true nature of Islam, in which case they are stupid, and not be given any rights. How bright do you have to be to read the Qur'an to Surah 2, much less Surah 9, or to spend some time learning about the 'career' of Muhammad? or (2) lying and either (a) a sleeper waiting for the word to do something despicable or (b) a propagandist trying to seduce us into thinking that Islam is 'one of the world's great religions'.

In my book, Muslims have no rights, are followers of a belief system that makes Nazism look tame, and should be treated with suspicion and disdain.

Oh, my, goodness, I am being non-PC for calling for discrimination against Muslims! Absolutely. Let us stop worrying about their sensibilities. But I tell you what - give a Muslim a chance to understand the truth about Islam, and then a choice: LEAVE ISLAM OR LEAVE AMERICA.

How many times do we have to hear that we 'don't understand Islam, need to know Arabic, just look at the Koran and not the Hadith, need to be a scholar', etc? Using that criteria, 90% of the world's Muslims would be disqualified, and that is the way the imams, mullahs, clerics and jihadists want it.

To allow a growing population of submissive sheeple who have been trained to do what they are told by their clerics is insanity. Substitute 'Nazi' for Muslim in any sentence where you read about the 'peaceful' or 'moderate' Muslims, and this should be clear.

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm

So then, since the OKCity bomber, the Atlanta Olympics bomber and Waco were crazy anti-government, Christian Fundamentalists I guess that means we need to require all Christians to leave the country too?

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

Since when was the OKC bomber connected to any religion? Farrahkan tried to pen the Christian label on MacVeigh. Like you he is a liar. MacVeigh is an admitted agnostic.

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdUKKCh9QsngA92VXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1aGRrM2ZvBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDA0OV8xNTQ-/SIG=11ue9u901/EXP=1344240394/**http%3a//www.tektonics.org/guest/mcveigh.htm

The Branch Davidian stand-off was NOT an anti-government incident and their religious beliefs had nothing to do with the massacre of innocent men, women and children. It was an over-reaching, over-stepping BATF bungle by over zealous agents. apparently you have not done any research on the trajedy.

"On February 28,1993 overly aggressive and highly militarized agents of BATF set out to put on a "big show" to increase their budgets and prestige by attacking the Branch Davidian religious group outside of Waco, Texas. Six months earlier, agents had spurned David Koresh's attempts to cooperate with their investigation of his gun business by inviting them to see his guns. On February 28, when he came to the front door and tried to cooperate, reckless agents shot him and mortally wounded his father-in-law. Other agents started shooting from helicopters, killing four Davidians. Agents probably assassinated another Davidian who approached Mount Carmel later that day. And so began a 51 day standoff. "

Read for yourself and then spew some more lying bullshit.

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdVkcAR9QNX4AxnxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1cmozaXZjBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDA0OV8xNTQ-/SIG=11j7858e0/EXP=1344237980/**http%3a//www.carolmoore.net/waco/

As for Rudolf, the olympics bomber, the label of "Christian Extremist" has been falsely attached to him.

Wikipedia, "In a letter to his parents from prison, Rudolph has written, "Many good people continue to send me money and books. Most of them have, of course, an agenda; mostly born-again Christians looking to save my soul. I suppose the assumption is made that because I'm in here I must be a 'sinner' in need of salvation, and they would be glad to sell me a ticket to heaven, hawking this salvation like peanuts at a ballgame. I do appreciate their charity, but I could really do without the condescension. They have been so nice I would hate to break it to them that I really prefer Nietzsche to the Bible."[29]"

You need to get the facts before you go erroniously spouting off YOUR ignorant bullshit.

Muslims have said they are going to take us from the inside because of our ignorant government and "tolerance" . What group of people espouse tolerance except when it doesn't fit their meme?

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm
Quote Brookesmith:

You need to get the facts before you go erroniously spouting off YOUR ignorant bullshit.

XXX my l*l when you're finished spouting your vile perpitudinous nonsense.

anonymous green
Joined:
Jan. 5, 2012 11:47 am

On McVeigh, I am from rural Arizona. Had friends, and in laws from the Bullhead City/ Kingman area, back then. Trying to paint McVeigh as not anti govt, and/or not Christian, is wholly dishonest. If my post wasn't clear on the two points, I am sorry. But in his view, he was avenging the deaths of other anti gubmint groups who were also Christians.

On Waco, when law enforcement agents show up for any purpose, you cooperate. If some fucktard has written a screed that the violence was entirely the fault of highly trained law enforcement officials, and not the religious whack job who raped 8 year old girls, and had 50 people convinced he was Jesus reincarnate, then the problem is with you and your source.

When the Po-po comes knocking, the best answers start and end with "sir". I've went around Phoenix for a decade with a sidearm in a holster, and was never stopped and harrassed by the police. My brother in law starts every conversation with Police with explaining to them his rights, and their legal limits, and citing statutes. And his dumbass always winds up cuffed, sitting on curb or in the back of a squad car.

Koresh and his gang took the attitude of defiance. They had 50 days to change their attitude. They sure showed the ATF who was the boss. Oh wait, they all died in a fiery pit. Nevermind.

On the Olympic Bomber, who also made a name as an abortion clinic bomber, while he may not have been a Christian, many Christians celebrated him. They loved what he was doing at the time.

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

Did you not read the site. MacVeigh was an admitted agnostic. I did not say he wasn't anti-governemnt

Janey Reno admitted she was mis-leasd by the BATF. You are eveidently one of those sheeple that believes government goons are always in the right. Koresh had previously tried to cooperate with agents and was shunned. You can believe government's propaganda and cover-up and I will believe those that investigated the trajedy. The government was out of line. As of 2007 everyo0ne imprisioned has been released.

So you admit he wasn't Christian, but it was Christian's fault. Skewed reasoning.

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm

The flag and the cross can only beget fascism.

What useful tools you've been to deliver it.

The nation will recover when Obama is re-elected.

Until then, X my still free l*l.

anonymous green
Joined:
Jan. 5, 2012 11:47 am
Quote Brookesmith:

You are eveidently one of those sheeple that believes government goons are always in the right. Koresh had previously tried to cooperate with agents and was shunned. You can believe government's propaganda and cover-up and I will believe those that investigated the trajedy.

"What is the first business of one who practices philosophy? To get rid of self-conceit. For it is impossible for anyone to begin to learn that which he thinks he already knows."
Epictetus

"In 2004, Koresh's 1968 Camaro with a 427 cu in swap, which had been damaged by the military during the raid, sold for $37,000 at auction."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh

chilidog
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I don't beleive Koresh shot up a theater or blew up a government building. What was his crime? The sheriff of McClendan Co., Harwell , knew him very well. He found no basis for the compaints against them.

"Waco occurred under the presidency of Bill Clinton, with Janet Reno and Wesley Clark in supporting roles. Already back in 1993 the US government demonstrated its contempt for the American people by carrying out a massacre in order to "demonstrate" (on prime time TV) its supposed "authority" (a tactic favored by fascist governments). Following the usurpation of the presidency in 2000 by the psychopath George W. Bush, and the subsequent installation of the insane John Ashcroft as Bush's Himmler, things became much worse. On 9/11 about forty times as many people were murdered as at Waco. In both cases the murderers have so far gone unpunished."

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdUXf0x9QxhoAfY9XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1c2dibHRuBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDA0OV8xNTQ-/SIG=11n4suhav/EXP=1344291935/**http%3a//www.serendipity.li/waco.html

Koresch tried to surrender but the government jackboots murdered him. This was their intent from the beginning. The "fiery pit" was purposely set by the jackbooted government thugs killing innoecent men, women and CHILDREN.

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm
Quote Brookesmith:

But we should not allow it to take priority and bend over backwards to kiss muslim asses by making special concessions to accomdate them, while we ban Christian practices from our public schools and places. We should not grant them special privledges.

Do we ignore the muslim brotherhood-hamas connection to CAIR and the anti-American comments made by their leaders?

On the contrary, Islam as an ideology is TOTALLY contrary to Western and American values.

Islam is NOT a religion, it is totalitarian political ideology that should not be allowed to gain a foothold in our country.

Muslims are either: (1) ignorant of the true nature of Islam, in which case they are stupid, and not be given any rights. How bright do you have to be to read the Qur'an to Surah 2, much less Surah 9, or to spend some time learning about the 'career' of Muhammad? or (2) lying and either (a) a sleeper waiting for the word to do something despicable or (b) a propagandist trying to seduce us into thinking that Islam is 'one of the world's great religions'.

In my book, Muslims have no rights, are followers of a belief system that makes Nazism look tame, and should be treated with suspicion and disdain.

Oh, my, goodness, I am being non-PC for calling for discrimination against Muslims! Absolutely. Let us stop worrying about their sensibilities. But I tell you what - give a Muslim a chance to understand the truth about Islam, and then a choice: LEAVE ISLAM OR LEAVE AMERICA.

How many times do we have to hear that we 'don't understand Islam, need to know Arabic, just look at the Koran and not the Hadith, need to be a scholar', etc? Using that criteria, 90% of the world's Muslims would be disqualified, and that is the way the imams, mullahs, clerics and jihadists want it.

To allow a growing population of submissive sheeple who have been trained to do what they are told by their clerics is insanity. Substitute 'Nazi' for Muslim in any sentence where you read about the 'peaceful' or 'moderate' Muslims, and this should be clear.

I've no problem with Christian practices being removed from public schools. There are private schools if that's one's preferences. Neither Jew, Hindu nor Muslim or atheist, etc. should be forced to recite a Christian prayer...or be ostracized by their peers if they don't.. The U.S. is a Secular State, not a Church State.

Theocracies have never worked well in the past. They probably won't work well in the present.

You really should read the Koran if you're going to make comments on islamic beliefs. You're way off the mark.There are about 2 billion Muslims in the world. It's the world's fastest growing religion. You should probably get used to it being around.

It's true that if you want to comprehend a world's religion, you should probably learn the language it was first written in. For Christians, i'd recommend Ancient Greek. Some words in the original manuscripts have no direct translations into another language. Our abbot reads the Ancient Greek Christian texts...not translations.

Most Muslims in the U.S. are American converts. Refugees from a corrupt, decaying , hypocrytical U.S. Christianity. They are seeking something other than that. I'd rather they reform Christianity...but that isn't the case.

They aren't foreign born. It isn't likely they'll be moving to the Gaza Strip anytime soon. Besides, they have little in common with those people. What does a Christian here have in common with a Christian in Haiti or Egypt? Not much.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease".

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I am not talking about Christian practices being removed from public schools. Why should Christian students be forced to accomodate demands. It is blatantly one-sided to kiss muslim ass for some odd reason.

"This is all about imposing Islam on infidels. This is creeping sharia. This is the march to Islamic domination.
This is about power. There is no special treatment for "special classes". This is how they impose their Islam on a secular society. Muslim footbaths in airports and universities, Muslim cab drivers who refuse to take passengers with dogs or alcohol, prayer times in public schools, prayer times in the work place ............. this is how you lose your country."

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdSY32R9QjzcAWPxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1cmozaXZjBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDA0OV8xNTQ-/SIG=14hpi0538/EXP=1344293303/**http%3a//atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/02/islamic-supremacism-in-new-jersey-muslim-prayer-in-public-school.html

I don't give a shit how tolerant we are supposed to be, this is blatant, in your face bullshit. You think one-sided ass kissing is fair, poly? I don't.

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm

Nope. We can't endorse one religion over another. We also can't prohibit the practice of a religion.

If Christians followed their own traditions, they'd be praying daily at exactly the same time Muslims do.The practice was adopted from Christianity.

Perhaps it's more of a case of how dare they do what I should be doing...and don't. A drunk doesn't like sobriety thrown in his face. Not a whole lot of difference. Same sort of thing.

Religion tends to eventually conform to the norms it finds itself imbedded in. The Christian system described in the Book of Acts (everything held in common) is pretty much limited to monastaries, isn't it? It has been for many, many centuries.Almost from day one. It adopted to that particular existing norm of not holding things in common rather quickly.

Muslims don't eat pork. Neither do Jews. If Christians adhered to the Old Testament, they wouldn't either.The O.T. is a pick and choose cafeteria. We haven't killed disobediant sons in a long time. LOL

If you really want to compare which scriptural teachings are the most violent, read your bible. We win hands down. Jesus reversed it.. Paul (the bulk of the New Testament) feeds right into violence. I'd call most of what passes for Christianity .... Paulism.

There is an old saying, "First Paul overcame Peter...then he overcame Christ".

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

But that is EXACTLY what the appeasers and ass kissers are doing.

They don't want just accomodation, they want to take over and impose sharia law everywhere they can. It is not a religion. It is a political ideology.

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdW1L5h9Q7D4Aw5tXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1MWw2MWlxBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDA0OV8xNTQ-/SIG=11pu22deg/EXP=1344296651/**http%3a//islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm

This appeasing and islamic ass kissing is very evident in the labels attached to the senseless murder of innocents. The recent shooting in Wiscinsin has been labeled "domestic terrorism" carried out by an ex-military guy with white supremist ties.

The Ft. Hood massacre was labeld "workplace violence" even though it was carried out by a known muslim screaming allah akbar and had known ties to radical muslim cleric al-Awlaki. The shooting death and injury of two army privates in Little Rock by a muslim extremist has been labeled a street crime.

There is no excuse for the killings of innocent people in Colorado or Wisconsin, but to label them as "domestic terrorism" and then calling massacres carried out by known muslim extremists "workplace violence or street crimes" is blantantly a slap in the face of Americans by Obama and his administration. This is nothing but muslim ass kissing appeasment and political correctness run amok. We are truly living in Orwellian times. Creeping sharia?

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm

I've yet to see how labeling an act of terror in an Aurora theater as an act of terror appeases Muslims. Nor how the terror killings in Wis. appeases Muslims. Isn't that a bit of a stretch?

I'd really suggest you get to know some American converts to islam. Stero-typing just doesn't make sense to me. It never has.

Probably when a government supports such things., we could call it a terrorist state. The U.S. supporting the right wing para-military groups in El Salvador being just one an example of that. The church was terrorized to the point of the nation's Bishop being shot dead in his own cathederal. Priests were mutilated; nuns were raped. Calls for peace and justice were answered with a bullet. Thank you, Mr. Reagan for providing the gun. and the support to commit the atrocities..

Cant pick and choose what is good terror or bad terror. Terrorism is terrorism. It's all bad. I'd really like to see my own government stop engaging in it. We play the class warfare card much differently abroad than we do at home.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

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polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Then why aren't acts of mass murder committed by obvious muslim extremists like the Ft Hood shooter labeled acts of terrorism? There's a definite threat from muslim radicalization in various parts of our society, including within the military, and we are allowing political correctness to keep us from exposing this threat for what it is. Why? Why do we treat OBVIOUS acts of terror with kid gloves and are quick to label others as such. It is if we are kowtowing to keep from offending falsely sensitive muslim asses, when they are looking for the least excuse to scream discrimination. You and others are sticking your heads in the sand and trying to pretend they aren't espousing violence against Americans, yet quick to point fingers and label others. It can't possibly be anything horrible that has been done in the name of islam or the muslim faith, can it ?

Brookesmith
Joined:
Aug. 3, 2012 7:00 pm

Currently Chatting

Keystone would be way worse than we thought!

We already know that the Keystone XL pipeline is a disaster waiting to happen. But, it turns out that the impact of that tar sands pipeline could be even worse than we thought. According to a new study by the Stockholm Environmental Institute, Keystone could add four times more carbon pollution to our atmosphere than the State Department originally estimated.

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