HERE IT IS.THE NEW ROMNEY RYAN GOP LOGO!

29 posts / 0 new

wasnt able to cut and paste photo.... please see here http://www.democraticunderground.com/

harry ashburn's picture
harry ashburn
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Comments

Awesome logo.

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
Joined:
Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

How about a slogan:

We will either make your grandma much wealthier or we'll take away her Medicare.

Laborisgood's picture
Laborisgood
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

It's going to be all about freeing the free market from "Obama." Now there is a code word for you.

I love the logo, but it will get the "they hate success" scorn. We really need to expose their narrative and not get lost in our own. Had we a "message" from our narrative, we might be able to sound bite them back.

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm

RFK on Smothers Brothers from the same link.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Obama's narrative is largely written by lefties disgruntled with Obama's relationship with the free markets. On one hand embracing that helps defend him against the right, but it also further inflames many on the left. They say general elections are run in the middle. Is the middle really embracing free markets as much as regulation? Would Obama gain from a protectionist and regulatory oriented campaign more than the alternative?

Laborisgood's picture
Laborisgood
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Joe Bageant. descibes who will vote for the guys represented in the logo. He also offers a tutoriol on etiquette for a lefty in a Hee-Haw town.

Note, they don't know any lefties, so you cannot pass. Even with a John Deere ballcap.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Excellent article Douglas. Sometimes I believe there is no hope and the aggregate American IQ is so deficient that we will never dig ourselves out of this hole. Yet my glass is still half full, DAMNIT!!!

Laborisgood's picture
Laborisgood
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Funny... I'm more scared of Biden being president.

Capital1's picture
Capital1
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2012 7:38 am

Really? A guy with a ton of experience in foreign affairs and well-like by his colleagues in Congress is going to be more dangerous than another go at Cheney's Dream at home and abroad? Oh, of course, that was the bad Republicans whose advisors are Romney's, and the Cheney never said that he was a big fan of Paul Ryan. These are the new Republicans who just emerged from their eggs with no past to review, only promises of how they will fix the Obama=mess with their good old American values and virtues. Smile, see the cheekbones and the nice hair.

Cap, you are a hoot. On the more serious note of this thread, yes, the "free market" utopia is so much the marker for those who try to understand economics enough to vote that we do have to attack that narrative from top to bottom. Too many Dems give the "free market" respect as an idea instead of talking about markets needing to be regulated and designed. Economics still works off a natural law myth that removes it from public policy engineering and makes it into finding that Holy Free Market Grail.

We can debate the numbers and the authorities cited for conflicting information, or we can say ENOUGH!! and mean it. If we could spend on Afghanistan and Iraq, we can invest in America. We have had it with privatization and the failed promises of unleashed Corporatism. We want Democracy Now. We are not Broke, but the vandals have stolen the pump handle.

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm

And, the revised logo: The same Rolls Royce emblem, but as the Nuns on the Bus are being run over by its Hummer body.

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm
Quote douglaslee:Joe Bageant. descibes who will vote for the guys represented in the logo. He also offers a tutoriol on etiquette for a lefty in a Hee-Haw town.

Note, they don't know any lefties, so you cannot pass. Even with a John Deere ballcap.

I grew up in Redstate hee-haw towns, and worked there in factories alongside many white dead-enders like this. Most of this is funny and true, but a couple of things I disagree with. First, the characters here sitting in the tavern, the true lower class redneck, with jailtime, etc., don't vote. I doubt they are even registered. They may show up loudmouthed at a Teabagger rally, but more likely they're focused with immediate concerns in their life: next paycheck, ex-wife headaches, bail payback, next cold beer, tuning their drag racer, getting laid, new deer stand, repairing their fishing reel, asshole boss, college football team, NASCAR, etc. etc. and voting takes time from that. Now the Teabaggers may have mobilized them to register and vote, my data is somewhat old, but I doubt it....it's the classes above them, that are somewhat more stable lives and active in voting and vote based on religion, blacks and guns, that carry the torch for the GOP. Above them the old money upper classes know the buttons to push, want GOP predominance based on their business or wealth concerns and have no problems swaying all below them using the God, gays guns, theme, although blacks are seen much more of a menace than gays at least in the deep South.

The other thing is, in this story, he downplayed race, which is a much more prevalent thing for rednecks of this level, especially in the South, because all the blacks they are in contact with are poor. It doesn't matter that they're poor too, they're white. But people in cities - especially up north, they underestimate this, because the poor blacks are usually confined and stay in their areas, and there aren't many poor whites at all, while in small towns or rural areas, the poor blacks and whites mix daily in their routines –there’s only one Walmart - which leads to animosities because both are struggling. This story was in Virginia I suppose Appalachia, where there are no blacks, so maybe that's why he didn't mention them.

These people have no other news source than Fox or the networks, becasue MSNBC may not be on the basic cable or dish. And right wing radio rules the airwaves. Most small town papers are RW owned and editorial RW. I was visiting last Spring a small Southern town where my Aunt lives and reading the local paper and the half page centerpiece editorial was a Teabagger manifesto written by Matt Kibbe and Dick Armey of Freedomworks, and another smaller editorial publicizing a Teabagger rally that afternoon on the town square. Grassroots? Uh, No. These people are bombarded by propaganda and don’t even realize it.

Back to the article - his best point is – as long as Dems/unions carry the torch for minorities and gays, or make it their centerpiece - there’s no way they will reach this demographic. It’s easy to make fun of them as low-info people, but with the Dems’ embrace of big business/free trade, and media emphasis of their gay/minority/immigration stands, it’s really hard for them to see what the Dems offer them. Of course, we know they do offer something, but it takes a lot of time and study to figure it out. Time they don’t have, or time they’d rather be doing something else.

I often think lefty call in shows should make a bigger deal of supporting callers from the South or rural areas, especially whites, because when that happens, you know the caller has worked hard, worked past the propaganda, past the RW groupthink, worked past the racism, and made an effort to get informed about the really important things. It’s fairly easy for those in blue states, or urban areas, to get both sides, L and R, but I think most don’t realize how hard it is to get both sides in most of the U.S. especially the South and rural areas..

al3's picture
al3
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Will they realize their medicaid is targeted? food stamps too? nursing homes are probably non- existant, but if there are any they depend on medicaid. Granny's coming home to stay. Can't afford diapers? Maybe that stall out in the barn with some extra hay, but tell junior to keep his zipper up.

Now sing along it's. L-- I-- B-- E-- R-- T-- WHY ? because we're looking out for you!! RR RR PULL!!

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

Will they realize their medicaid is targeted? food stamps too? nursing homes are probably non- existant, but if there are any they depend on medicaid. Granny's coming home to stay. Can't afford diapers? Maybe that stall out in the barn with some extra hay, but tell junior to keep his zipper up.

Now sing along it's. L-- I-- B-- E-- R-- T-- WHY ? because we're looking out for you!! RR RR PULL!!

One of the best things we as a country could do is eliminate all social programs as soon as possible without cutting anyone off. We can phase all of the programs

workingman's picture
workingman
Joined:
Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am
Quote workingman:

One of the best things we as a country could do is eliminate all social programs as soon as possible without cutting anyone off. We can phase all of the programs

One of the best things we could do rather is take you behind the shed and beat ideas like that out of your head. You see the human race tends not to feel accountable to anyone, at least with the government you can spit and claw at them until they treat you with some form of dignity.

Idiot Wind's picture
Idiot Wind
Joined:
Aug. 13, 2012 1:54 pm
Quote Idiot Wind:
Quote workingman:

One of the best things we as a country could do is eliminate all social programs as soon as possible without cutting anyone off. We can phase all of the programs

One of the best things we could do rather is take you behind the shed and beat ideas like that out of your head. You see the human race tends not to feel accountable to anyone, at least with the government you can spit and claw at them until they treat you with some form of dignity.

The government does not care about you. It can not will not and does not have your best interest in mind as an individual when it does anything. Ssi and medicare are failing have the worst possible returns on the money it confiscated from you. Government can create wealth only destroy it.

Example: The government takes 12 percent from you and your employer for your retirement. The government pays you zero interest on the money and than gives you back 75 percent of what it took not in the amounts you have earned but in the amounts they think you need.

workingman's picture
workingman
Joined:
Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am
Quote workingman:

The government does not care about you. It can not will not and does not have your best interest in mind as an individual when it does anything. Ssi and medicare are failing have the worst possible returns on the money it confiscated from you. Government can create wealth only destroy it. Example: The government takes 12 percent from you and your employer for your retirement. The government pays you zero interest on the money and than gives you back 75 percent of what it took not in the amounts you have earned but in the amounts they think you need.

Not denying government hasn't been corrupted but saying we should put ourselves at the mercy of corporations is like jumping from the frying pan into a volcano. No organization that runs for the purpose of making money has even the pretense of your best interest. The rest of what you say is just mantra.

That's the folly of living in such a blatantly capitalistic society, money defines success to an extraordinary agree, and by extension 'freedom'. I'm not for government running people's lives but it has to be an evolution not a devolution back to the time of the crusades.

Idiot Wind's picture
Idiot Wind
Joined:
Aug. 13, 2012 1:54 pm
Quote Idiot Wind:
Quote workingman:

The government does not care about you. It can not will not and does not have your best interest in mind as an individual when it does anything. Ssi and medicare are failing have the worst possible returns on the money it confiscated from you. Government can create wealth only destroy it. Example: The government takes 12 percent from you and your employer for your retirement. The government pays you zero interest on the money and than gives you back 75 percent of what it took not in the amounts you have earned but in the amounts they think you need.

Not denying government hasn't been corrupted but saying we should put ourselves at the mercy of massive private interest groups is like jumping from the frying pan into a volcano. No organization that runs for the purpose of making money has even the pretense of your best interest. The rest of what you say is just mantra.

That's the folly of living in such a blatantly capitalistic society, money defines success to an extraordinary agree, and by extension 'freedom'. I'm not for government running people's lives but it has to be an evolution not a devolution back to the time of the crusades.

I do not want to go back that far just to get the government back to the founding priniciples.

I am not saying we should have no government or be at the mercy of corporations. I am saying that we should trust are selves to run our lives. We should be free to do as we please with our property and time as long as it does not infringe on your freedom. The current social security system is the governments way of telling you that it thinks the american people are to stupid to save and manage their own retirement. They think with out them confiscating money they are never going to give back we would all be eating dog food in our old age. I have more trust in me than a government three thousand miles away. A government made uo of people that think they are to good to answer their own phone or even personnally talk to the people they are supposed to represent.

workingman's picture
workingman
Joined:
Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am

Go back to the founding principles? OK, start by rolling back laws on corporate charters that only are granted for 20 years, and after the last auction for every present older-than-20yr-charter's assets gets performed, then we can look at the rest.

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
Joined:
Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm
Quote Capital1:

Funny... I'm more scared of Biden being president.

Why is a whole lot less scarely than Ryan who look like an undertaker. At least with Biden, you will know exactly what he is thinking since he always puts it out there.

Recovering conservative2's picture
Recovering cons...
Joined:
Feb. 14, 2011 11:01 am

But back to Rmoney and Ryan...

With a few more days to chew on it here is what it looks like:

1- Rmoney went over his campaign advisers and made a pick of desperation. Rmoney is appealing to the TeaBagger base, because he either does not trust that he has them, or enough of them, to drive turnout in November.

2- Rmoney decided to ignore regional candidates, to help find electoral votes. Choosing a Floridian, or Pennsylvanian could have put the winning electoral votes in Rmoney's column.

3- Rmoney decided to ignore any candidates that have a more diverse background. No Women, Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Asians or Native Americans made the cut. Getting Dr. Condi Rice seemed like the smart choice, best of the NeoCons, loves wars, hates people, knows how to operate in Washington.

4- Rmoney had built his campaign as "not Governor" but as "business experience guy who can get it done". Then he turns around and picks a career politician, whose only private sector jobs were as a waiter while interning for congressmen. This kind of muddles that issue. Which, since Rmoney had already declared that his business experience is why we should vote for Rmoney, and then he refuses to talk about his business decisions, I guess further muddying the focus won't matter.

5- Rmoney could have chosen a BlueDog Democrat, like a Sen. Evan Bayh, or even former Democrat Sen. Joe Lieberman - CT4L, to show Rmoney's "centrist, sensible, & pragmatic" side. Except Rmoney is not that guy for this election. That was the Senate race against Teddy Kennedy.

6- Or a former military General and/or NATO commander on the ticket.

Think how different this all looks with a former Florida Governor, or Senator on the ticket, or a former Pennsylvainia Governor.

Rmoney will spend alot of money and time, in Florida, telling lies to seniors about the Ryan budget. Others will blog the truth. We will see which can win.

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
Joined:
Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm
Quote workingman:
Quote Idiot Wind:
Quote workingman:

The government does not care about you. It can not will not and does not have your best interest in mind as an individual when it does anything. Ssi and medicare are failing have the worst possible returns on the money it confiscated from you. Government can create wealth only destroy it. Example: The government takes 12 percent from you and your employer for your retirement. The government pays you zero interest on the money and than gives you back 75 percent of what it took not in the amounts you have earned but in the amounts they think you need.

Not denying government hasn't been corrupted but saying we should put ourselves at the mercy of massive private interest groups is like jumping from the frying pan into a volcano. No organization that runs for the purpose of making money has even the pretense of your best interest. The rest of what you say is just mantra.

That's the folly of living in such a blatantly capitalistic society, money defines success to an extraordinary agree, and by extension 'freedom'. I'm not for government running people's lives but it has to be an evolution not a devolution back to the time of the crusades.

I do not want to go back that far just to get the government back to the founding priniciples. I am not saying we should have no government or be at the mercy of corporations. I am saying that we should trust are selves to run our lives. We should be free to do as we please with our property and time as long as it does not infringe on your freedom. The current social security system is the governments way of telling you that it thinks the american people are to stupid to save and manage their own retirement. They think with out them confiscating money they are never going to give back we would all be eating dog food in our old age. I have more trust in me than a government three thousand miles away. A government made uo of people that think they are to good to answer their own phone or even personnally talk to the people they are supposed to represent.

I wonder why they think that people are too stupid to save and manage their own retirement?

June 23, 2008 – More and more Americans are concerned about their retirement prospects, according to new poll results from Bankrate, Inc., which found last year that many older Americans plan to work until they die.

The new poll, conducted by GfK Roper as part of Bankrate's Financial Literacy series on retirement, reveals that retirement is a growing concern amid tumultuous financial times for Americans.

Key findings about the concerns of the 1,004 Americans polled include:

● Only 28 percent say that they will be able to retire comfortably.

● One-third (33 percent) say they'll have just enough finances to get by when retired.

● Seven out of 10 say that they have set low expectations about their retirement prospects.

● Nearly two out of 10 (17 percent) say they will not have enough money to retire without worrying.

● Nineteen percent say they are afraid they'll never be able to retire.

http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Retirement/2008/20080623-2-Only28Percent.htm

Bush_Wacker's picture
Bush_Wacker
Joined:
Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am
Quote Bush_Wacker:
Quote workingman:
Quote Idiot Wind:
Quote workingman:

The government does not care about you. It can not will not and does not have your best interest in mind as an individual when it does anything. Ssi and medicare are failing have the worst possible returns on the money it confiscated from you. Government can create wealth only destroy it. Example: The government takes 12 percent from you and your employer for your retirement. The government pays you zero interest on the money and than gives you back 75 percent of what it took not in the amounts you have earned but in the amounts they think you need.

Not denying government hasn't been corrupted but saying we should put ourselves at the mercy of massive private interest groups is like jumping from the frying pan into a volcano. No organization that runs for the purpose of making money has even the pretense of your best interest. The rest of what you say is just mantra.

That's the folly of living in such a blatantly capitalistic society, money defines success to an extraordinary agree, and by extension 'freedom'. I'm not for government running people's lives but it has to be an evolution not a devolution back to the time of the crusades.

I do not want to go back that far just to get the government back to the founding priniciples. I am not saying we should have no government or be at the mercy of corporations. I am saying that we should trust are selves to run our lives. We should be free to do as we please with our property and time as long as it does not infringe on your freedom. The current social security system is the governments way of telling you that it thinks the american people are to stupid to save and manage their own retirement. They think with out them confiscating money they are never going to give back we would all be eating dog food in our old age. I have more trust in me than a government three thousand miles away. A government made uo of people that think they are to good to answer their own phone or even personnally talk to the people they are supposed to represent.

I wonder why they think that people are too stupid to save and manage their own retirement?

June 23, 2008 – More and more Americans are concerned about their retirement prospects, according to new poll results from Bankrate, Inc., which found last year that many older Americans plan to work until they die.

The new poll, conducted by GfK Roper as part of Bankrate's Financial Literacy series on retirement, reveals that retirement is a growing concern amid tumultuous financial times for Americans.

Key findings about the concerns of the 1,004 Americans polled include:

● Only 28 percent say that they will be able to retire comfortably.

● One-third (33 percent) say they'll have just enough finances to get by when retired.

● Seven out of 10 say that they have set low expectations about their retirement prospects.

● Nearly two out of 10 (17 percent) say they will not have enough money to retire without worrying.

● Nineteen percent say they are afraid they'll never be able to retire.

http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Retirement/2008/20080623-2-Only28Percent.htm

Those numbers and we have government confiscation for retirement tells me the system is a failure. Time for a new system it is called do it yourself. The government is not capable of running your retirement account. That is why the people who say they will have enough to retire on is so low they are doing it inspite of the governent theft

workingman's picture
workingman
Joined:
Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am

Really Workingman? Do you want to see what the numbers look like BEFORE social security?

Bush_Wacker's picture
Bush_Wacker
Joined:
Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am
Quote Bush_Wacker:

Really Workingman? Do you want to see what the numbers look like BEFORE social security?

Sure post them up, however the percentage of the people that wanted to be on the government dole back than is lower than it is now. The government also knew that it had to make it mandatory and permanent or people would never go for it, rerire with more freedom and money. This would cause even fewer people to sign up leaving the people that did to fend for themselves after the government program emploded like it is now. Same result just more pain.

workingman's picture
workingman
Joined:
Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am
Quote workingman:
Quote Bush_Wacker:
Quote workingman:
Quote Idiot Wind:
Quote workingman:

The government does not care about you. It can not will not and does not have your best interest in mind as an individual when it does anything. Ssi and medicare are failing have the worst possible returns on the money it confiscated from you. Government can create wealth only destroy it. Example: The government takes 12 percent from you and your employer for your retirement. The government pays you zero interest on the money and than gives you back 75 percent of what it took not in the amounts you have earned but in the amounts they think you need.

Not denying government hasn't been corrupted but saying we should put ourselves at the mercy of massive private interest groups is like jumping from the frying pan into a volcano. No organization that runs for the purpose of making money has even the pretense of your best interest. The rest of what you say is just mantra.

That's the folly of living in such a blatantly capitalistic society, money defines success to an extraordinary agree, and by extension 'freedom'. I'm not for government running people's lives but it has to be an evolution not a devolution back to the time of the crusades.

I do not want to go back that far just to get the government back to the founding priniciples. I am not saying we should have no government or be at the mercy of corporations. I am saying that we should trust are selves to run our lives. We should be free to do as we please with our property and time as long as it does not infringe on your freedom. The current social security system is the governments way of telling you that it thinks the american people are to stupid to save and manage their own retirement. They think with out them confiscating money they are never going to give back we would all be eating dog food in our old age. I have more trust in me than a government three thousand miles away. A government made uo of people that think they are to good to answer their own phone or even personnally talk to the people they are supposed to represent.

I wonder why they think that people are too stupid to save and manage their own retirement?

June 23, 2008 – More and more Americans are concerned about their retirement prospects, according to new poll results from Bankrate, Inc., which found last year that many older Americans plan to work until they die.

The new poll, conducted by GfK Roper as part of Bankrate's Financial Literacy series on retirement, reveals that retirement is a growing concern amid tumultuous financial times for Americans.

Key findings about the concerns of the 1,004 Americans polled include:

● Only 28 percent say that they will be able to retire comfortably.

● One-third (33 percent) say they'll have just enough finances to get by when retired.

● Seven out of 10 say that they have set low expectations about their retirement prospects.

● Nearly two out of 10 (17 percent) say they will not have enough money to retire without worrying.

● Nineteen percent say they are afraid they'll never be able to retire.

http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Retirement/2008/20080623-2-Only28Percent.htm

Those numbers and we have government confiscation for retirement tells me the system is a failure. Time for a new system it is called do it yourself. The government is not capable of running your retirement account. That is why the people who say they will have enough to retire on is so low they are doing it inspite of the governent theft

AHHHHHHHHHHH F&#@ING IDIOTS are going to destroy this country!

There, I got that out of my system. Now, if any of the conservatives in this room think Social Security is a freakin' retirement account, then that may be the source of the problem. It is not a retirement account and the only people for whom it IS a retirement account are the disabled and the poor. Are you one of those? No? Then, for you and I, Social Security is simply our national insurance policy against starvation due to injury or old age. We know we need Social Security because there were people capable of writing, back then, before the new deal who recorded the living conditions of the poor and feeble. There were places called "poor houses" where we warehoused our most needy citizens, out of sight of the privileged. Starvation was much more common among those who could not provide for themselves and that's why Social Security was begun. That your side continuously mischaracterizes what the program is, is telling.

Now, I know the magical conservatives don't need to consider the results of the policies they advocate, but the rest of us can and have read enough to know that we shouldn't ignore the poor. There is a decided societal cost in lives and treasure in protecting the rich from taxes. Those of us who do not reside in magic land also know that history CAN repeat itself. It's not magic that we know that, the history books demonstrate that consolidating wealth has been an intermittent political goal in this country and each time it has been tried it has been disastrous for average people.

Social programs ARE government, they are not a gift of government. They are proof that government exists and works. Calling something a government that doesn't need to serve people is to redefine and destroy a good thing. The problem is that there is magic afoot. People are going around demanding a magical, nonsensical right-wing form of government that works, just not for people. That's like saying that hospitals could run more efficiently without all the patients. It's stupid.

Every time you use the word "government theft" to refer to the act of taxing the rich to heal the sick and feed the poor, you should get a shooting pain in your chest where your heart would normally be or an ache in your head where your brain would reside. It is truly by magic that you guys exist, much less type.

D_NATURED's picture
D_NATURED
Joined:
Oct. 20, 2010 8:47 pm
Quote D_NATURED:
Quote workingman:
Quote Bush_Wacker:
Quote workingman:
Quote Idiot Wind:
Quote workingman:

The government does not care about you. It can not will not and does not have your best interest in mind as an individual when it does anything. Ssi and medicare are failing have the worst possible returns on the money it confiscated from you. Government can create wealth only destroy it. Example: The government takes 12 percent from you and your employer for your retirement. The government pays you zero interest on the money and than gives you back 75 percent of what it took not in the amounts you have earned but in the amounts they think you need.

Not denying government hasn't been corrupted but saying we should put ourselves at the mercy of massive private interest groups is like jumping from the frying pan into a volcano. No organization that runs for the purpose of making money has even the pretense of your best interest. The rest of what you say is just mantra.

That's the folly of living in such a blatantly capitalistic society, money defines success to an extraordinary agree, and by extension 'freedom'. I'm not for government running people's lives but it has to be an evolution not a devolution back to the time of the crusades.

I do not want to go back that far just to get the government back to the founding priniciples. I am not saying we should have no government or be at the mercy of corporations. I am saying that we should trust are selves to run our lives. We should be free to do as we please with our property and time as long as it does not infringe on your freedom. The current social security system is the governments way of telling you that it thinks the american people are to stupid to save and manage their own retirement. They think with out them confiscating money they are never going to give back we would all be eating dog food in our old age. I have more trust in me than a government three thousand miles away. A government made uo of people that think they are to good to answer their own phone or even personnally talk to the people they are supposed to represent.

I wonder why they think that people are too stupid to save and manage their own retirement?

June 23, 2008 – More and more Americans are concerned about their retirement prospects, according to new poll results from Bankrate, Inc., which found last year that many older Americans plan to work until they die.

The new poll, conducted by GfK Roper as part of Bankrate's Financial Literacy series on retirement, reveals that retirement is a growing concern amid tumultuous financial times for Americans.

Key findings about the concerns of the 1,004 Americans polled include:

● Only 28 percent say that they will be able to retire comfortably.

● One-third (33 percent) say they'll have just enough finances to get by when retired.

● Seven out of 10 say that they have set low expectations about their retirement prospects.

● Nearly two out of 10 (17 percent) say they will not have enough money to retire without worrying.

● Nineteen percent say they are afraid they'll never be able to retire.

http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Retirement/2008/20080623-2-Only28Percent.htm

Those numbers and we have government confiscation for retirement tells me the system is a failure. Time for a new system it is called do it yourself. The government is not capable of running your retirement account. That is why the people who say they will have enough to retire on is so low they are doing it inspite of the governent theft

AHHHHHHHHHHH F&#@ING IDIOTS are going to destroy this country!

There, I got that out of my system. Now, if any of the conservatives in this room think Social Security is a freakin' retirement account, then that may be the source of the problem. It is not a retirement account and the only people for whom it IS a retirement account are the disabled and the poor. Are you one of those? No? Then, for you and I, Social Security is simply our national insurance policy against starvation due to injury or old age. We know we need Social Security because there were people capable of writing, back then, before the new deal who recorded the living conditions of the poor and feeble. There were places called "poor houses" where we warehoused our most needy citizens, out of sight of the privileged. Starvation was much more common among those who could not provide for themselves and that's why Social Security was begun. That your side continuously mischaracterizes what the program is, is telling.

Now, I know the magical conservatives don't need to consider the results of the policies they advocate, but the rest of us can and have read enough to know that we shouldn't ignore the poor. There is a decided societal cost in lives and treasure in protecting the rich from taxes. Those of us who do not reside in magic land also know that history CAN repeat itself. It's not magic that we know that, the history books demonstrate that consolidating wealth has been an intermittent political goal in this country and each time it has been tried it has been disastrous for average people.

Social programs ARE government, they are not a gift of government. They are proof that government exists and works. Calling something a government that doesn't need to serve people is to redefine and destroy a good thing. The problem is that there is magic afoot. People are going around demanding a magical, nonsensical right-wing form of government that works, just not for people. That's like saying that hospitals could run more efficiently without all the patients. It's stupid.

Every time you use the word "government theft" to refer to the act of taxing the rich to heal the sick and feed the poor, you should get a shooting pain in your chest where your heart would normally be or an ache in your head where your brain would reside. It is truly by magic that you guys exist, much less type.

social security was orginally sold to the american people as a retirement account. Tbe money was supposed to be put aside for the payer and the payers family. The disability portion was added years later. The individual retirement portion than became a loser for the average person. They receive back 28 percent less than we have paid in.

I read history and realize history can and does repeat itself. Hitler took over because things in germany got so bad the left screamed for the pain to stop. The u.s. Is headed down the same progressive path. A path that leads to communism and tyranny

workingman's picture
workingman
Joined:
Mar. 20, 2012 8:13 am

D_NATURED is right. I think the logo refered to in the OP will continue after they lose in nov. Remember after '64 there was the breed of Goldwater Republicans as a defining tribe. Ryan Rupublicans will not die, the birchers/tparty may shrink, but RR is immortal.

Nobody ever claimed to be a Cheney republican, or chickenhawk, or a WR epublican unless you were a proud right wing with dyslexia..

New dealers still live. I never denied being a Keynesian so reclaming it was never an issue.

Perotistas were a short lived breed. But RRs after they lose will just fester like any common infection, and begin oozing in 2014. Randians seem persistant, too. RRR ryan randian republicans doesn't have the panache of a Rolls. Maybe Rolls Royce Republicans Reading Rand? RRRRR or the Ryan Republicans Regurgitating Rubbish RRRR?

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote workingman:
Quote D_NATURED:
Quote workingman:
Quote Bush_Wacker:
Quote workingman:
Quote Idiot Wind:
Quote workingman:

The government does not care about you. It can not will not and does not have your best interest in mind as an individual when it does anything. Ssi and medicare are failing have the worst possible returns on the money it confiscated from you. Government can create wealth only destroy it. Example: The government takes 12 percent from you and your employer for your retirement. The government pays you zero interest on the money and than gives you back 75 percent of what it took not in the amounts you have earned but in the amounts they think you need.

Not denying government hasn't been corrupted but saying we should put ourselves at the mercy of massive private interest groups is like jumping from the frying pan into a volcano. No organization that runs for the purpose of making money has even the pretense of your best interest. The rest of what you say is just mantra.

That's the folly of living in such a blatantly capitalistic society, money defines success to an extraordinary agree, and by extension 'freedom'. I'm not for government running people's lives but it has to be an evolution not a devolution back to the time of the crusades.

I do not want to go back that far just to get the government back to the founding priniciples. I am not saying we should have no government or be at the mercy of corporations. I am saying that we should trust are selves to run our lives. We should be free to do as we please with our property and time as long as it does not infringe on your freedom. The current social security system is the governments way of telling you that it thinks the american people are to stupid to save and manage their own retirement. They think with out them confiscating money they are never going to give back we would all be eating dog food in our old age. I have more trust in me than a government three thousand miles away. A government made uo of people that think they are to good to answer their own phone or even personnally talk to the people they are supposed to represent.

I wonder why they think that people are too stupid to save and manage their own retirement?

June 23, 2008 – More and more Americans are concerned about their retirement prospects, according to new poll results from Bankrate, Inc., which found last year that many older Americans plan to work until they die.

The new poll, conducted by GfK Roper as part of Bankrate's Financial Literacy series on retirement, reveals that retirement is a growing concern amid tumultuous financial times for Americans.

Key findings about the concerns of the 1,004 Americans polled include:

● Only 28 percent say that they will be able to retire comfortably.

● One-third (33 percent) say they'll have just enough finances to get by when retired.

● Seven out of 10 say that they have set low expectations about their retirement prospects.

● Nearly two out of 10 (17 percent) say they will not have enough money to retire without worrying.

● Nineteen percent say they are afraid they'll never be able to retire.

http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Retirement/2008/20080623-2-Only28Percent.htm

Those numbers and we have government confiscation for retirement tells me the system is a failure. Time for a new system it is called do it yourself. The government is not capable of running your retirement account. That is why the people who say they will have enough to retire on is so low they are doing it inspite of the governent theft

AHHHHHHHHHHH F&#@ING IDIOTS are going to destroy this country!

There, I got that out of my system. Now, if any of the conservatives in this room think Social Security is a freakin' retirement account, then that may be the source of the problem. It is not a retirement account and the only people for whom it IS a retirement account are the disabled and the poor. Are you one of those? No? Then, for you and I, Social Security is simply our national insurance policy against starvation due to injury or old age. We know we need Social Security because there were people capable of writing, back then, before the new deal who recorded the living conditions of the poor and feeble. There were places called "poor houses" where we warehoused our most needy citizens, out of sight of the privileged. Starvation was much more common among those who could not provide for themselves and that's why Social Security was begun. That your side continuously mischaracterizes what the program is, is telling.

Now, I know the magical conservatives don't need to consider the results of the policies they advocate, but the rest of us can and have read enough to know that we shouldn't ignore the poor. There is a decided societal cost in lives and treasure in protecting the rich from taxes. Those of us who do not reside in magic land also know that history CAN repeat itself. It's not magic that we know that, the history books demonstrate that consolidating wealth has been an intermittent political goal in this country and each time it has been tried it has been disastrous for average people.

Social programs ARE government, they are not a gift of government. They are proof that government exists and works. Calling something a government that doesn't need to serve people is to redefine and destroy a good thing. The problem is that there is magic afoot. People are going around demanding a magical, nonsensical right-wing form of government that works, just not for people. That's like saying that hospitals could run more efficiently without all the patients. It's stupid.

Every time you use the word "government theft" to refer to the act of taxing the rich to heal the sick and feed the poor, you should get a shooting pain in your chest where your heart would normally be or an ache in your head where your brain would reside. It is truly by magic that you guys exist, much less type.

social security was orginally sold to the american people as a retirement account.

Maybe becsuse the elderly are the most vulnerable in a capitalist society? Helping them helps the greatest number of needy people. So what, though? Rather than get hung up on hair splitting, we should discuss whether or not we think we have a responsibility to each other, as humans. That is the real debate here, not the details of Social Security.

The money was supposed to be put aside for the payer and the payers family. The disability portion was added years later.

Are you saying the disabled should be denied assistance? What is the point?

The individual retirement portion than became a loser for the average person. They receive back 28 percent less than we have paid in.

I'd like to see your figures but it doesn't matter anyway. Everybody CAN'T get back everything they put in to an insurance policy. That isn't true for any kind of insurance, even retirement insurance (if you want to call SS that). Besides, I work with a guy who had half a million in retirement investments prior to 2000. The stock market has crashed twice since then. I think he would settle for a 28% loss, at this point. He lost most of it. He's seventy something and still hasn't retired. You can't retire on social security. You can avoid starvation, that's it.

I read history and realize history can and does repeat itself. Hitler took over because things in germany got so bad the left screamed for the pain to stop.

The left was screaming that Germany was too progressive? Or, was the whole country suffering because of WW1 blowback? I suppose the next thing you'll say is that Hitler was a Socialist. If you do, you will have demonstrated the true depth of your historical knowledge- or lack thereof.

Really, I mean it, if you say that the NAZIs were socialists becuase the word "socialist" appears in the NAZI anagram, I'll consider that evidence of your ignorance. As a preemptive rebuttal, I'll ask you to contrast the definition of the word "socialist" with what Germany was at the time and to remember that products (including political parties) are named by politicians who may attempt to deceive/ manipulate people.

The u.s. Is headed down the same progressive path. A path that leads to communism and tyranny

Are you saying the NAZIs were both communists AND fascists? Put down the conservative pixie dust, man. History doesn't repeat unless we are misinformed about what happened. Your magical thinking is showing again. This country is not on a progressive path any more. We ended that with the Reagan revolution when we gave the rich a get-out-of-tax-free card and began accumulating massive debt. Coincidentally, that's when we began looking more and more like NAZI Germany, deep in debt, xenophobic and warlike. You know, "socialist" for the misinformed.

D_NATURED's picture
D_NATURED
Joined:
Oct. 20, 2010 8:47 pm

Currently Chatting

GOP Blocks Equal Pay...again.

Just in time for election season, Senate Republicans blocked legislation aimed at closing the gender pay gap. For the third time since 2012, Republicans refused to allow debate on the Paycheck Fairness Act, and reminded women that the GOP doesn't believe in equal pay for equal work.

Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system