Russia and China Reiterate: We Will Protect National Sovereignty

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It seems to me that Russia and China are refusing to lose themselves in the ongoing pressure to join the developing global fascist mish-mash that has apperently been planned out for Planet Earth and it's inhabitants, without an okay from everyone.

Stubborn, selfish Russia and China — wanting to keep themselves and other nations sovereign! Bad, bad!

Russia and China, who are having a Russia-China Strategic Security Dialogue in Moscow this week, have jointly responded to the Aug. 20 threat by President Obama to take unilateral military action in Syria, in the case of some alleged threat of use of chemical weapons by President Bashar al-Assad, by reiterating their strict commitment to observing the principles of national sovereignty enshrined in the UN charter and international law.

"Russia and China have very reliable criteria with which we measure all our steps. This is the necessity to strictly observe the norms of international law and the principles contained in the UN Charter, and not to allow their violation," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said as he was meeting with Chinese State Councillor Dai Bingguo in Moscow.

Lavrov told the press that effective approaches can only be collective, and cited the resolution signed by the UN, EU and Arab League on June 30 in Geneva, as exemplary of what needs to be done.

Russia and China have consistently pressed the principle of national sovereignty, in the wake of the blatantly illegal violation of that principle in Libya, a violation which ended with the barbaric murder of the captive Muammar Qaddafi. So far, that assertion—backed up implicitly by opposition from the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff to a new Obama war—has worked.

The stakes, should the U.S. move outside the United Nations to violate national sovereignty, were laid out most clearly by Russian Prime Minister Dmitri Medvedev in a May 17 speech where he said:

"Such [rash, military—ed] actions, which undermine state sovereignty, can easily lead to full-scale regional wars even—I am not trying to scare anyone here—with the use of nuclear weapons. Everybody should remember this especially when we analyse the concept of state sovereignty."

LPAC

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Karolina
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If Bashar al Assad has chemical weapons, I can guess who sold them to him. Iraq all over again, just as the PNAC doctrine called for. Are we going to let the warmonger radicals in Israel/US drag us into WWIII?

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Choco
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
President Obama Clarifies Stance on Syria
James S. Brady Press Briefing Room
August 20, 2012

Excerpted Remarks

On Syria, obviously this is a very tough issue. I have indicated repeatedly that President al-Assad has lost legitimacy, that he needs to step down. So far, he hasn't gotten the message, and instead has double downed in violence on his own people. The international community has sent a clear message that rather than drag his country into civil war he should move in the direction of a political transition. But at this point, the likelihood of a soft landing seems pretty distant.

What we've said is, number one, we want to make sure we're providing humanitarian assistance, and we've done that to the tune of $82 million, I believe, so far. And we'll probably end up doing a little more because we want to make sure that the hundreds of thousands of refugees that are fleeing the mayhem, that they don't end up creating - or being in a terrible situation, or also destabilizing some of Syria's neighbors.

The second thing we've done is we said that we would provide, in consultation with the international community, some assistance to the opposition in thinking about how would a political transition take place, and what are the principles that should be upheld in terms of looking out for minority rights and human rights. And that consultation is taking place.

I have, at this point, not ordered military engagement in the situation. But the point that you made about chemical and biological weapons is critical. That's an issue that doesn't just concern Syria; it concerns our close allies in the region, including Israel. It concerns us. We cannot have a situation where chemical or biological weapons are falling into the hands of the wrong people.

We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus. That would change my equation.

Question: So you're confident it's somehow under - it's safe?

The President: In a situation this volatile, I wouldn't say that I am absolutely confident. What I'm saying is we're monitoring that situation very carefully. We have put together a range of contingency plans. We have communicated in no uncertain terms with every player in the region that that's a red line for us and that there would be enormous consequences if we start seeing movement on the chemical weapons front or the use of chemical weapons. That would change my calculations significantly.

That last paragraph is very reminiscent of pre-Iraq war, weapons of mass destruction talk.

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Karolina
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Probably if we don't stop offending our banker (China) it will stop financing our wars by buying our debt.

China noticed something during our economic downturn. It can stimulate its own economy to buy what it produces...and develop new trading partners (minus the dollar as an exchange medium). It's doing both.

If China stops exchanging shoes shipped to Walmart and computers shipped to Best Buy in exchange for U.S. debt, we're in deep do do. For starters ,I won't have any shoes or a means to access this forum,

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote polycarp2:Probably if we don't stop offending our banker (China) it will stop financing our wars by buying our debt.

China noticed something during our economic downturn. It can stimulate its own economy to buy what it produces...

China noticed the something that had the US going from the minute they won the Revolutionary War. Why the heck are we not doing it NOW?

Apperent traitors in the government, trying to turn most of the US citizenry into one solid mass of anxiety-ridden service people who are paid pennies per hour and then get taxed higher taxes.

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Karolina
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Nov. 3, 2011 6:45 pm
Sen. Richard Lugar: U.S. and Russia Should Plan to Collaborate on Destroying Syrian Chemical Weapons if Necessary
August 25, 2012 • 3:00PM

Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN) proposed Thursday that the U.S. and Russia should plan a joint takeover of Syria's chemical weapons stockpile if Syrian President Assad's regime falls or loses control of its chemical weapon stockpile. Lyndon LaRouche has said that these chemical weapons are largely or totally a non-issue, but it is of interest that Lugar counterposed cooperative bilateral action with Russia, to Obama's threat of a US invasion of Syria,— directed against Russia,— on the chemical weapons pretext.

Lugar, Ranking Member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and co-author of the Nunn-Lugar nuclear arms reduction agreement between the U.S. and U.S.S.R., was interviewed on MSNBC yesterday by Andrea Mitchell. Just back from talks with Russian Deputy Defense Ministers and Foreign Affairs experts, Lugar had been in Moscow this month to build support for the reauthorization of his legislation that allows U.S. financial and technical support for dismantling nuclear weapons. Lugar reported that he had "taken advantage" of being in Moscow to discuss a different path on the Syrian chemical weapons stockpile, and seek a breakthrough on how to defuse the danger posed by the Syrian stockpile of chemical weapons. "There is a general fear of a red line being drawn" on the Syrian chemical weapons, which could lead to a U.S. attack on Syria," Lugar said. "I'm suggesting a bilateral plan" where the U.S. and Russia could jointly destroy the chemical weapons.

Lugar said, "Russia is a great power, and has a lot of experience with chemical weapons. We would plan together for a contingency, if the Assad regime falls, or, if there is a general disintegration of order in Syria, we would be prepared, as two nations, to take over those chemical weapons and destroy them, because we want to have stronger relations with Russia. It would be good to be with Russia on the Syrian question."

Responding to the question of whether the Russians were willing, Lugar said, "This is why I took the opportunity in Moscow to forge a different path. Russia has experience in working with weapons of mass destruction. We have a lot of experience with Russia in doing this. We are committed — both our countries — to get rid of all [emphasis in original-ed.] of our chemical weapons, and we've helped the Russians at such a— a big plant, now, to keep going through tons of the stuff even as we are speaking today.

"Therefore, leaving aside the debate which preceeded, it seemed to me that this was an opportunity [emphasis in original] for a breakthrough, and at least the reaction of some Russians, was that this was very interesting. Others said, after all, Syria is not a member of the Chemical Weapons Convention. They own the weapons, and so they do. I think there is a general fear, and President Obama has expressed, that a red line is there, if the weapons get used or removed, the U.S. might take action, and that would be a unilateral action. I'm suggesting, if possible, bilateral planning and bilateral action."

Andrea Mitchell posed GOP Presidential nominee Mitt Romney's characterization that "'Russia is our biggest adversary'" to Lugar. "No, I don't agree with that," Lugar said. "As [Foreign Affairs expert] Tom Pickering said, 'We've been kicking the shins of each other for years; now we need to find ways to work together,' and it will not be easy. The Nunn-Lugar program, where the Russians literally invited us to come in and destroy the weapons that were aimed at us for 40 years, is a breakthrough of the sort no one [emphasis in original] anticipated. I'm suggesting we need some more breakthroughs. But that is going to require some tough diplomatic work. So I'm offering a suggestion, but it's not the only one." Lugar said that he "had not had the opportunity" yet to discuss this with the White House or the State Department, since "We just got back from our travels," but "I hope we'll have some conversations."

Republican Richard Lugar was a leading opponent of Blair's Iraq War, and Obama's Libya war. He was defeated in the primary election by a Tea Party candidate with massive PAC funding last Spring, and will not return to the Senate in 2013.

Meanwhile, The Hill reports that Republicans such as Rep. Ed Royce (CA), chair of the House Foreign Affairs Non-Proliferation Subcommittee, have proposed that the U.S. instead work with Jordan and Turkey to take over Syria's chemical weapons if the situation gets out of control, instead of Russia.

LPAC

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Karolina
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The Hopi have prophesied WWIII by December 21 of this year (Hotevilla by Mails/Evehema page 35; Google Hopi prophesy rock) as the solar system aligns with the center of the galaxy, an event that happens once every 26 thousand years. I do not know (with great depth) the politics and economics of US-China/Russian relations, but the moral deprevation of the US toward the developing world generally is deplorable and worthy of swift and severe retalliation against us given a downturn. At this point, if we can do nothing to help the developing world, the noble thing would be to allow the worst to happen to us quickly. If you can do something helpful, now would be prime time.

Some books and websites on the moral issues regarding this matter include Hotevilla, Third World Traveler website, Killing Hope, Made in China by Ngai Pun, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, Story of Stuff and Global Witness website.

The arrogance and pain caused by the military-industrial complex of America has deeply angered the surviving souls of the developing world. Let us do what we can in our own way and collectively to help the developing world as much as possible. I do recommend finding a good charity to give to, and Charity Navigator website can help. I also recommend that you be vocal in your workplace to ensure fair wages in your company's outsourced labor, as well as support for environmental regulations in their developing world business (if your company has business in the developing world). This is a full court press at this point. Workers and the environment are stressed to the limit in the developing world, and we can't see it, smell it, feel it. That is why it is so dangerous, and so much more likely to cause a world war. We don't know what the truth is, and it is likely to be much, much worse than we are guessing.

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Seth Leonard
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Dec. 13, 2011 6:10 pm

Dick Lugar was primaried out, too moderate. China released a statement yesterday about Romney and his China bashing. Russia knows Romney considers them the biggest enemy because he said so. Russia and China could ally, or even independantly buy superpac ads, buy assets up for sale in stressed municipals. Meanwhile Mitt wants 100,000 more troops recruited, and DOD budget increase, but balance the budget .

David-wood Wash. based former war correspondent has sane reflection on current events.

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