Thoms rant on Mitt Romney

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Thom you are crazy!  Your rant about Mitt Romney and the Mormon White Horse Prophecy was one of the most off the wall crazy things I have ever heard and that is saying somethin because I listen to your show often.


Redwing's picture
You need to understand that

You need to understand that he is told what to say every day by a couple of websites. A couple of months ago Thom gave a two hour rant on the republican's use of dog-whistle politics.  

Remember, The "mormons" are coming, we all have to be very afraid.


DebbiePA72's picture
Upfront in the name of

Upfront in the name of transparency: I am an Ex-Mormon. The White Horse Prophecy is very real. There was a good article about it in Salon not too long ago, here's the link:  What distresses me is when Thom gives inaccurate information about the Mormon church, because it calls into question his research.  

He made the following errors in the segment on Romney's Mormonism today: First, Mormons do NOT reach a higher degree in heaven based on the number of children they have. That is absolutely false. Second, Mormons do believe a man can become a god in the afterlife if he earns it, but they never use that word to refer to men in the church now. They use the term God to refer to the god of this world, also known as "Heavenly Father," much as any other mainstream church does. 

Thom, please, please, get your facts about the church correct before putting them on the air. Otherwise, great show, and this information about Romney should be put out there as much as possible.

Antifascist's picture
Quote:The Myth Of Origin And

The Myth Of Origin And Destiny

Chapter 1: Historicism And The Myth Of Destiny

Historicism, which I have so far characterized only in a rather abstract way, can be well illustrated by one of the simplest and oldest of its forms, the doctrine of the chosen people. This doctrine is one of the attempts to make history understandable by a theistic interpretation, i.e. by recognizing God as the author of the play performed on the Historical Stage. The theory of the chosen people, more specifically, assumes that God has chosen one people to function as the selected instrument of His will, and that this people will inherit the earth.

In this doctrine, the law of historical development is laid down by the Will of God. This is the specific difference which distinguishes the theistic form from other forms of historicism. A naturalistic historicism, for instance, might treat the developmental law as a law of nature; a spiritual historicism would treat it as a law of spiritual development; an economic historicism, again, as a law of economic development. Theistic historicism shares with these other forms the doctrine that there are specific historical laws which can be discovered, and upon which predictions regarding the future of mankind can be based.

There is no doubt that the doctrine of the chosen people grew out of the tribal form of social life. Tribalism, i.e. the emphasis on the supreme importance of the tribe without which the individual is nothing at all, is an element which we shall find in many forms of historicist theories. Other forms which are no longer tribalist may still retain an element of collectivism; they may still emphasize the significance of some group or collective—for example, a class—without which the individual is nothing at all.  Another aspect of the doctrine of the chosen people is the remoteness of what it proffers as the end of history. For although it may describe this end with some degree of definiteness, we have to go a long way before we reach it. And the way is not only long, but winding, leading up and down, right and left. Accordingly, it will be possible to bring every conceivable historical event well within the scheme of the interpretation. No conceivable experience can refute it. But to those who believe in it, it gives certainty regarding the ultimate outcome of human history. (Karl R. Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies, 1962, pp.17-18.).

So doesnt' this make Mitt Romney a "collectivist" on two counts? First, Romney has been a CEO nearly all his life and nothing is more collectivist than a corporation. The corporation is the ultimate collective with all members subordinate to its leadership and expected to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of the corporation. Secondly, is not the Mormon Church a collective? It is a closed elitist group that stockpiles supplies, a network of powerful men, secret doctrines, strict religious rules of behavor that rivials Maoism, and a cult of eschatological historicism.

Phaedrus76's picture
I do not like to label people

I do not like to label people by groups, race, creed or religion. I do not like it when anyone does this. I heard Thom's show today, and did not like this segment. We can all agreee what a horrible excuse of a human Mittens is based on his actions, deeds and words .

Bringing in prophecies based on mythical omnipotent beings created by 19th century alcoholics seems to be a waste of time.

All should embrace the noodly appendages of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. 

douglaslee's picture
The Last Word show had a

The Last Word show had a Mormon very upset over Mitt's 47% speach. He said that is NOT Mormonism.

The White Horse and Mitt

JTaylor's picture
Mr. Hartmann's theory about

Mr. Hartmann's theory about Romney makes more sense than anything ever said by a Mormon.  The Mormon "religion" is complete BS made up by a tax cheat and a fraud, and anyone who believes Joseph Smith's crap is mentally unfit to speak for the American People.

Honestly, after such a disgraceful showing as these Republican Presidential candidates have been (Bat$#!t Bachmann, Mormney, the Pizza Guy, etc.), how is anyone supposed to take the Republican party seriously?

Antifascist's picture
Quote:I do not like to label

I do not like to label people by groups, race, creed or religion. I do not like it when anyone does this. I heard Thom's show today, and did not like this segment. We can all agreee what a horrible excuse of a human Mittens is based on his actions, deeds and words .

I was thinking the same thing. However, I saw Paul Ryan's video rant that progressives were "collectivist" because they advocate the "We" society instead of the "Me" society. Ryan and Romney are calling those that paid into an insurance policy (Social Security) communists. The Republicans want to give that money to Wall Street. So should we not point out the contradiction of Romney's collectivist Corporatism and Mormonism? If this was only an issue about freedom of religion there would be no reason to bring it up, but Romney wants to become the President of the United States, Commander In Chief, and Economic planner. Do we have a duty to critically examine Paul Ryan's anti-altruistic ethical egoism, and Romney's collectivism irrespective of what name these syncretistic ideologies bare? Ryan labels himself a Randian, and Romney labels himself a Mormon--not us. War waged for power, or to fulfill prophecy have the same results.

What really bothers me is Romney is in effect a member of a secret society with secret doctrines.

I can't figure out what he really believes because he has contradicted himself so often. On the one hand there is his corporate history of predatory pirate equity asset stripping of companies that has harmed thousands of American workers. Romney's Bain corporation has sent untold numbers of jobs to Communist China de-industrializing America. He has cheated on his taxes (Son of Boss Tax Scandal) which is theft. But then on the other hand he labels himself a Mormon. Are his business practices consistent with Mormonism? Who knows. Mormonism is a secret cult! I think it is very dangerous to elect such a person as President. It's like asking us to elect Sun Myung Moon for President. And on top of all of this we are expected to accept atheistic Ayn Randian egoism preached by Paul Ryan. What is this mess? 

I enjoy reading all the

I enjoy reading all the anti-Mormon comments from all you opend minded and accepting people.  It is also funny that you all feel it is OK to make such comments about Mormons, but will not dare say one word about the peaceful followers of Islam who are killing people.

Samuel Clemens: "....I never

Samuel Clemens:

"....I never dislike a Chinaman as I do these Turks and Arabs, and, when Russia is ready to war with them again, I hope England and France will not find it good breeding or good judgment to interfere." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 268)

"All men have heard of the Mormon Bible, but few except the "elect" have seen it, or, at least, taken the trouble to read it. I brought away a copy from Salt Lake. The book is a curiosity to me, it is such a pretentious affair, and yet so "slow," so sleepy; such an insipid mess of inspiration. It is chloroform in print. If Joseph Smith composed this book, the act was a miracle — keeping awake while he did it was, at any rate. If he, according to tradition, merely translated it from certain ancient and mysteriously-engraved plates of copper, which he declares he found under a stone in an out-of-the-way locality, the work of translating was equally a miracle, for the same reason."

"In God We Trust." Now then, after that legend had remained there forty years or so, unchallenged and doing no harm to anybody, the President suddenly "threw a fit" the other day, as the popular expression goes, and ordered that remark to be removed from our coinage.
Mr. Carnegie granted that the matter was not of consequence, that a coin had just exactly the same value without the legend as with it, and he said he had no fault to find with Mr. Roosevelt's action but only with his expressed reasons for the act. The President had ordered the suppression of that motto because a coin carried the name of God into improper places, and this was a profanation of the Holy Name. Carnegie said the name of God is used to being carried into improper places everywhere and all the time, and that he thought the President's reasoning rather weak and poor.
I thought the same, and said, "But that is just like the President. If you will notice, he is very much in the habit of furnishing a poor reason for his acts while there is an excellent reason staring him in the face, which he overlooks. There was a good reason for removing that motto; there was, indeed, an unassailably good reason — in the fact that the motto stated a lie. If this nation has ever trusted in God, that time has gone by; for nearly half a century almost its entire trust has been in the Republican party and the dollar–mainly the dollar. I recognize that I am only making an assertion and furnishing no proof; I am sorry, but this is a habit of mine; sorry also that I am not alone in it; everybody seems to have this disease.
Take an instance: the removal of the motto fetched out a clamor from the pulpit; little groups and small conventions of clergymen gathered themselves together all over the country, and one of these little groups, consisting of twenty-two ministers, put up a prodigious assertion unbacked by any quoted statistics and passed it unanimously in the form of a resolution: the assertion, to wit, that this is a Christian country. Why, Carnegie, so is hell. Those clergymen know that, inasmuch as "Strait is the way and narrow is the gate, and few — few — are they that enter in thereat" has had the natural effect of making hell the only really prominent Christian community in any of the worlds; but we don't brag of this and certainly it is not proper to brag and boast that America is a Christian country when we all know that certainly five-sixths of our population could not enter in at the narrow gate.

  • Statements (c. December 1907), in Mark Twain In Eruption : Hitherto Unpublished Pages About Men And Events (1940) edited by Bernard Augustine De Voto

"The Jew is not a disturber of the peace of any country. Even his enemies will concede that. He is not a loafer, he is not a sot, he is not noisy, he is not a brawler nor a rioter, he is not quarrelsome. In the statistics of crime his presence is conspicuously rare — in all countries. With murder and other crimes of violence he has but little to do: he is a stranger to the hangman. In the police court's daily long roll of "assaults" and "drunk and disorderlies" his name seldom appears ..."

Marlin60 wrote: I enjoy

Marlin60 wrote:

I enjoy reading all the anti-Mormon comments from all you opend minded and accepting people.  It is also funny that you all feel it is OK to make such comments about Mormons, but will not dare say one word about the peaceful followers of Islam who are killing people.

Actually, peaceful followers of Islam don't do a whole lot of killing. You are contradicting yourself.

Note that Islam forbids the killing of an unarmed man in the defense of Islam. Women and children  are strictly  off limits in that regard. Violating that edict is a sure way to the islam hell.

Followers of islam may defend their faith...and can't be the aggressor.

Read history. Christians win the prize for killing in the name of religion. We should probably make Christians go through scanners before boarding an airplane.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease" 


Bush_Wacker's picture
So what's the big deal here? 

So what's the big deal here?  Arguing "facts" about fairytales and mythology is kind of weird.  Did Snow White have magic underwear?

Antifascist's picture
“The one who does not

The one who does not remember history is bound to live through it again.” ... George Santayana

Smith was accused of false steps in promoting a church-sponsored bank[129] and of having a relationship with his serving girl, Fanny Alger.[130] Building the temple left the church deeply in debt, and Smith was hounded by creditors.[131] After Smith heard about treasure supposedly hidden in Salem, Massachusetts, he traveled there and received a revelation that God had "much treasure in this city".[132] After a month, he returned empty-handed.[133] Smith and others church leaders then set up a joint stock company to act as a quasi-bank, establishing the Kirtland Safety Society in January 1837, which issued bank notes capitalized in part by real estate.[134] Smith invested heavily in the notes[135] and encouraged the Saints to buy them as a religious duty.[136] The bank failed within a month.[137] As a result, the Kirtland Saints suffered intense pressure from debt collectors and severe price volatility.[138] Smith was held responsible for the failure, and there were widespread defections from the church,[139] including many of Smith's closest advisers.[140] After a warrant was issued for Smith's arrest on a charge of banking fraud, Smith and Rigdon fled Kirtland for Missouri on the night of January 12, 1838.[141]

On June 23, Smith and his brother Hyrum were taken to Carthage to stand trial for inciting a riot.[263] Once the Smiths were in custody, the charges were increased to treason against Illinois.[264]

On June 27, 1844, an armed mob with blackened faces stormed Carthage Jail where Smith and Hyrum were being held.[265] Hyrum, who was trying to hold the door, was killed instantly with a shot to the face.[266] Smith fired a pepper-box pistol that had been smuggled into the prison, then sprang for the window.[267] He was shot multiple times before falling out the window, crying "Oh Lord my God!"[265] He died shortly after hitting the ground.[265] Smith was buried in Nauvoo.[268] Five men were later tried for his murder, but all were acquitted.[269]

Dr. Econ
Dr. Econ's picture
  Look, all religons  are


Look, all religons  are founded by lunatics in the begining (with the exception of Buddism). But after a few generations, you can  find good people in most of them.

nora's picture
How can Thom be expected to

How can Thom be expected to keep straight the delusions of Joseph Smith?  I don't think anybody can be expected to bring Joseph Smith's delusions into a logical frame of reference.  

Bush_Wacker wrote: So what's

Bush_Wacker wrote:

So what's the big deal here?  Arguing "facts" about fairytales and mythology is kind of weird.  Did Snow White have magic underwear?

Of course not. If she did, the Queen's magic apple couldn't have put her into a deep, death-like sleep. Fortunately,  Prince Charming's magic kiss brought her back to the living.

Ridiculous question. Everyone knows Snow White didn't have magic underwear. The facts prove it. :)

Dr. Econ, Christianity is Buddhism gone awry. I pretty much interpret Christ's teachings from a Buddhist perspective. From that point of view, the parables and teachings all make sense. Buddhism can more aptly be called "eastern psychology" rather than a religion. Some western psychologists are beginning to understand that...and are studying it for western applications..

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"



Antifascist's picture
Mormon church threatens to

Mormon church threatens to excommunicate member who criticized Romney


"He [Romney] is, essentially, a corporation running for president masquerading as an individual."

The Mafia is a collective.

Antifascist's picture
Romney lists USA as a

Romney lists USA as a "foreign country" in his tax returns


Rodger97321's picture
Setting aside the

Setting aside the unsubstantiated self-importance-inflating of a group that would christen itself "latter day saints" as if one can assume a title before making the first of a million gestures required to earn it - for the moment.

What's up with these GOP women and their expensive horse habits?

Rita Crundwell, former comptroller of Dixon, Illinois (where Reagan lived as a boy) who embezzled $53,000,000 from the town over the past two decades to support her Quarter Horse addiction and the would-like-to-be First Lady with her Olympics prancing, Tax Deduction horses.

Crundwell was finally indicted this past May - did your media forget to tell you about it?