Does vegetarianism help keep carbon emissions low?

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I know that this is an odd question for "Domestic Politics," but I figured that it didn't exactly fit anywhere else either.

As a question:

Does being vegetarian help to reduce carbon emissions in a significant way? I am thinking about going vegetarian, or to at least severely reduce my intake of meat, milk, and eggs. By eating more vegetable based products and reducing animal products, would it be worth if more people did the same thing? I hope that by not eating as much animals, which relase lots of carbon, I can also reduce carbon by promoting the growth of plants. Would vegetarianism be worth it, at the very least, to reduce carbon emissions?

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm

Comments

Sorry about switching this to "environment." I have decided that it fit better here.

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm

Vegetarians tend to drive less because they lack the ambition to go anywhere.

captbebops's picture
captbebops
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Ouch!! That hurts my feelings! :-)

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm

Don't listen to Captbebops, Micah. He's got an anti-vegetarian axe to grind.

This Wikipedia article might give you some answers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_vegetarianism

Among the findings: To get the environmental benefits of the vegetarian diet, a large portion of the human population, worldwide, would have to adopt the diet. Given the all-American addiction to a beefy, fat diet, it's not going to happen soon. But don't let that discourage you. Despite Capt's insults about vegetarians, vegetarians probably have more energy and ambition than meat-eaters, given that their arteries are not clogged with crap. You might also appreciate that vegetarian men, because they don't have blocked arteries, don't experience impotence like meat-eating men often do after 60 years of age.

Quote Wikipedia:

A 2010 report from United Nations Environment Program's (UNEP) International Panel of Sustainable Resource Management, states that global shift towards a vegan diet is critical for mitigating global issues of hunger, fuel poverty and the worst impacts of climate change. The panel declared: "Impacts from agriculture are expected to increase substantially due to population growth and increasing consumption of animal products. Unlike fossil fuels, it is difficult to look for alternatives: people have to eat. A substantial reduction of impacts would only be possible with a substantial worldwide diet change, away from animal products.

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote micahjr34:Does being vegetarian help to reduce carbon emissions in a significant way?

Sure it does. The more you grow your own, the more you shop local... the less carbon emissions you will contribute.... not to mention the decline in methane produced by cattle/cows...

Quote micahjr34:I am thinking about going vegetarian, or to at least severely reduce my intake of meat, milk, and eggs.

Good for you. We went completely vegan about 2 yrs. ago and never looked back. We began the long process by first raising our own cattle, hogs, chickens and dairy cows to escape the horrors of factory feed/slaughter houses. This led to a reduction in the amount of animal products we consumed. As I recommended a vegan diet to my clients and observed the improvements in their health... it propelled us to eat less and less animal products and to adapt a starch centered, vegan diet sans added oils and fats.... Soon... my wife and I became vegan all the way (my weakness for chocolate malts and the occasional free range egg notwithstanding)

Quote micahjr:By eating more vegetable based products and reducing animal products, would it be worth if more people did the same thing?

We think so... but then we are also off of the grid and drive EV's. Just healthwise.... the savings would amount to $BILLIONS in cardiac health, diabetes, strokes... and a myriad assortment of diseases and illnesses... Whether one goes vegan, vegetarian, or just wants to eat less meat, the simple truth is this. The less animal products (meat, milk, eggs, fish) one consumes... the healthier they will be. The more ill one is, the more improvements they will see....

Quote micahjr:I hope that by not eating as much animals, which relase lots of carbon, I can also reduce carbon by promoting the growth of plants. Would vegetarianism be worth it, at the very least, to reduce carbon emissions?

Not only that... but the animals you save would probably appreciate it as well....

My wife and I were already healthy... so we thought. In less than 2 months on a vegan diet my cholesterol decreased to it's current 136, BP is 110/60 and pulse is 58... and my wifes insulin requirement (Type 1) has decreased as well. She also dropped 40 pounds with little effort...

Lots of books and web sites on becoming vegan or vegetarian... This is one of my favorites. Check out the discussion board for tips and tricks. http://www.drmcdougall.com/index.html

Quote captbebops:

Vegetarians tend to drive less because they lack the ambition to go anywhere.

I seem to have a different experience than you. I'm 6'2'', 210, 8% body fat, run 5 miles a day, lift weights for 45 mins 6 days a week, volunteer at several clinics, race motorcycles, and have travelled the world on a vegan diet....

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norske
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

One very serious issue to me over vegetarianism, or even an outright vegan diet, is cholesterol. I have a certain medical condition that impairs my liver a little, including when it comes to cholesterol. Even right now I eat oatmeal a lot to absorb some of it in my digestive tract. On the outside I am fit and active, but my liver not so. I have been getting my cholesterol checked early in my life, earlier than most people. I still eat meat, but as my concern over cholesterol deposits in my important blood vessels, my thoughts about vegetarianism and veganism grow, as well as for environmental reasons.

Thank you for the feedback, Norske.

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm

Cutting down on red meat would be a good thing to do! I rarely eat beef anymore and the longer I go the less I think about eating it.

I mostly eat organic chicken and wild caught salmon, lots of ORGANIC veggies and fruits. Less cows=less methane.

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 9:45 am

People in poor countries tat experience frequent droughts need a protein substitute for animals such as beef, poultry, or pigs. Feeding those animals grain that is edible for humans does not make sense when there is a food shortage in time of drought.

I have heard others talk about the reduction of CO-2 and methane in the atmosphere that would result if the consumption of meat products was reduced. Soy or other products can be used to replace the protein lost from dropping meat from the diet.

Using some sort of natural fertilizers instead of the usual petroleum based products would help also. I'm not sure what the best drought tolerant plants for protein are.

last year I saw a documentary that was discussing the origin of and flow of drugs like cocaine and heroin. One of the things mentioned was that some Afghan farmers had tried to move out of the poppy business, but returned after a few money losing years. They returned to cultivating poppies because of one simple fact ... poppies require about 10% of the water needed to grow other marketable products produced in the country. Afghanistan has had many years of drought in 5-10 years.

Giving those farmers the technology to dig wells and irrigate their crops may help decrease the flow of heroin. Solar cells or wind power can provide the power to run the pumps.

A few years ago I was in Costco on a Sunday afternoon looking at a solar powered attic fan, which I considered buying to replace my aging electric one. On display next to the solar powered attic fans were solar cells small enough for home use, a type that could be wired together in series to provide more power. There was a man dressed in a colorful dashiki with a big smile on his face standing there reading the information on the box and the display signs.

I became a little curious and started talking to him about the solar cells. I was brainstorming a little about how someone could use those in a home, about what you could power with those. The one thing that I mentioned as a possibility that got the biggest reaction from him was using the cells to power a pump for a well ... he nodded his head and smiled even more, and said that was the primary reason he was buying the solar cells. Apparently, he was taking time off in the near future to return to his village in Africa, and was trying to figure out how many of the solar cells he could use, and how many he could transport on the plane with him in his baggage or in cargo.

In addition to using them for powering water pumps, they could be used as a light source at night instead of kerosene lamps or fires. I have heard of a couple of organizations that help people in third world countries install solar powered lights to help them reduce asthma and other lung problems caused by breathing in the by products of maintaining fires indoors for light.

One additional benefit is that many of the kids of these farmers work during the day on the farm or elsewhere and are not able to go to school during the day. The solar powered electric lights help them obtain an education by giving them the light to read and study by at night. Some of the villages have been able to setup night schools using the solar lights to allow the children or adults that are interested in obtaining an education learn.

Replacing the indoor fires with solar electric light will also help decrease the deforestation of their country, and reduce the amount of carbon dioxide emitted into the atmosphere. Sounds like a win / win to me.

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 12:13 pm

Facts about Pollution from Livestock Farms

I'm glad Norske mentioned it: As we think about our own health and the health of the environment, we might also consider how meat purchases at the supermarket support a vast number of egregiously cruel factory farming enterprises. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming#Animal_health_and_welfare

Micah, is that something that you might also be concerned about?

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Going vegetarian or vegan is the fastest way to lower your carbon footprint and walk lighter upon the earth .A good place to start is Thom,s book the Prophet,s Way ,at the back there is some information taken from an article that John Robbins wrote called Earth Changes.

Einstein had a great quote about being a vegetarian and from memory I think he said it would be one of the fastest road,s to peace and Sustainability basically the fast track for a more caring compassionate world.

namaste

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humanitys team
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Dec. 24, 2010 4:53 am

Well, I am interested in using animal products (not just food, but all animal products...) only if I can feel confident that the animals used in making the product were raised and killed humanely. Since I can't feel too sure about that ever, I am considering reducing the amount of animal products that I use. For example, whenever I go to the grocery store to buy something, I am starting to think about how some products can contain animal products. I am sure that there are "farms" out there that gravely abuse their animals, but it is difficult for consumers to find out which ones they are!

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm
Quote micahjr34:

Well, I am interested in using animal products (not just food, but all animal products...) only if I can feel confident that the animals used in making the product were raised and killed humanely. Since I can't feel too sure about that ever, I am considering reducing the amount of animal products that I use. For example, whenever I go to the grocery store to buy something, I am starting to think about how some products can contain animal products. I am sure that there are "farms" out there that gravely abuse their animals, but it is difficult for consumers to find out which ones they are!

Thanks, Micah, for your response.

Well, you can be sure that if you shop at a supermarket for meat, that meat will be cruelty-tainted. You can find some sources of cruelty-free meat, but it's doubtful that your local grocery store stocks it, given that such meat is a specialty item now. Even if an animal product is labeled "organic" and "free-range," you cannot be sure the animals were raised and slaughtered humanely.

For me, the notion of supporting such an evil food system with my purchases is unthinkable. Literally, I cannot bear the thought. It would be a different matter, if I had no other choice. But the vegetarian alternative not only gives me a way to be in harmony with my ethics and morality, it provides a healthier, richer and more varied diet as well. If ever there was a happy choice, a vegetarian diet is it!

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Zenzoe,

I think that I will go vegetarian, maybe even vegan. However, there are complications. I pay "room and board" to my parents who I live with because I have some problems (different issue, different time...). Virtually all the food that they buy and serve contains meat. I think that I will start out slow and just gradually reduce my consumption of animal products gradually, especially at home. For example, whenever I go to the grocery store with them, I will try to buy more vegetarian foods and even some soy milk. If they joke around with me about it, that is fine, but I will make sure not to hurt their feelings in the process.

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm
Quote micahjr34:

I think that I will start out slow and just gradually reduce my consumption of animal products gradually, especially at home. For example, whenever I go to the grocery store with them, I will try to buy more vegetarian foods and even some soy milk.

Good for you... though if you feel the need for a "milk" of some type... Almond milk is the healthier option. Took me years to complete the transformation to vegan sans added oils and fats. Read as much on vegetarianism, veganism, fats, oils, soy, etc. etc. as you can. Concentrate on whole foods and stay away from as many processed foods as you can. Perhaps a viewing of (Forks Over Knives) would be of some benefit to you and your family.... Best of luck...

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norske
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote micahjr34:

Zenzoe,

I think that I will go vegetarian, maybe even vegan. However, there are complications. I pay "room and board" to my parents who I live with because I have some problems (different issue, different time...). Virtually all the food that they buy and serve contains meat. I think that I will start out slow and just gradually reduce my consumption of animal products gradually, especially at home. For example, whenever I go to the grocery store with them, I will try to buy more vegetarian foods and even some soy milk. If they joke around with me about it, that is fine, but I will make sure not to hurt their feelings in the process.

Yes, it's far more difficult to make the transition if you have others' feelings and habits to consider. It's difficult enough just to deal with friends and family meat-eaters who don't live with you! Anyway, I hope you like to cook, because its also difficult to be a healthy vegetarian if you don't, as far as I can tell.

I agree with Norske about the almond milk and also wish you luck with your, well, adventure. Congratulations too!

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

LOL! Contrary to popular belief the Captain does not have an anti-vegetarian axe to grind. The Captain is about "rational nutrition." I was partly joking on my comment but some of the nutritional counselors and MDs might know what I'm talking about. If a strict vegetarian diet does not suit you (which it won't many people) then there can indeed be lack of ambition as a symptom. Flakiness is another symptom. People start making mistakes in speech, etc. Vegans often sound constantly obsessed about food and no wonder, they starving!

Look you can use these kinds of diets as cleansing diet. And there are those people who are naturally hypertense. They are often the kind of people who don't even need to work out to maintain muscle mass. They often do well on a more vegetarian diet.

Then you have the folks who if they try to live on a vegetarian diet do really lose ambition, energy and become hypoglycemic.

One shoe size does not fit all. One diet type does not fit all. We are individuals. Unfortunately outside of a small percentage of MDs who do take an interest in nutrition (often particularly true with sports doctors and diabetic specialists) this fact gets ignored. A majority of them want that one shoe size that fits all. :-D

Religious dieting doesn't work nor does political or environmental dieting work. However regarding the latter those who advocate biochemical individualty will tell you that the majority of the population can get by on far less animal protein than is now being consumed. And that would solve the problem.

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captbebops
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote captbebops:

LOL! Contrary to popular belief the Captain does not have an anti-vegetarian axe to grind. The Captain is about "rational nutrition." I was partly joking on my comment but some of the nutritional counselors and MDs might know what I'm talking about. If a strict vegetarian diet does not suit you (which it won't many people) then there can indeed be lack of ambition as a symptom. Flakiness is another symptom. People start making mistakes in speech, etc. Vegans often sound constantly obsessed about food and no wonder, they starving!

Look you can use these kinds of diets as cleansing diet. And there are those people who are naturally hypertense. They are often the kind of people who don't even need to work out to maintain muscle mass. They often do well on a more vegetarian diet.

Then you have the folks who if they try to live on a vegetarian diet do really lose ambition, energy and become hypoglycemic.

One shoe size does not fit all. One diet type does not fit all. We are individuals. Unfortunately outside of a small percentage of MDs who do take an interest in nutrition (often particularly true with sports doctors and diabetic specialists) this fact gets ignored. A majority of them want that one shoe size that fits all. :-D

Religious dieting doesn't work nor does political or environmental dieting work. However regarding the latter those who advocate biochemical individualty will tell you that the majority of the population can get by on far less animal protein than is now being consumed. And that would solve the problem.

I would ask you why your meaty diet hasn't cured you of your typos —flakiness— but what the heck: I've decided to have mercy on you. LOL!!! ;-)

I just wanted to recommend a couple of books. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody else has recommended The China Study, and I'm sure the Captain has at least heard of it. That's a biggy and not so easily dismissed, if you actually read it all the way through.

Then, speaking of doctors, I recommend a book focused on how to improve the body's defenses against cancer, specifically, and other diseases as well: Anti-Cancer, A New Way of Life, by David Servan-Schreiber. Anyone, but especially anyone facing cancer, should keep this book around for frequent reference, that is if one desires to reduce the risk of disease by rendering inhospitable to disease the "'terrain' [within the body] that supports the growth of new cancer cells." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-servanschreiber-md-phd/we-can-all-fi...

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote miksilvr:

Solar cells or wind power can provide the power to run the {well} pumps.

In addition to using them for powering water pumps, they could be used as a light source at night instead of kerosene lamps or fires. I have heard of a couple of organizations that help people in third world countries install solar powered lights to help them reduce asthma and other lung problems caused by breathing in the by products of maintaining fires indoors for light.

One additional benefit is that many of the kids of these farmers work during the day on the farm or elsewhere and are not able to go to school during the day. The solar powered electric lights help them obtain an education by giving them the light to read and study by at night. Some of the villages have been able to setup night schools using the solar lights to allow the children or adults that are interested in obtaining an education learn.

Replacing the indoor fires with solar electric light will also help decrease the deforestation of their country, and reduce the amount of carbon dioxide emitted into the atmosphere. Sounds like a win / win to me.

Here is a link for one of the foundations doing that type of project: Solar Electric Light Fund (SELF)

Bob Freling of the Solar Electric Light Fund: "1.5 million people die every year from indoor air pollution."

video from today: Up w/ Chris Hayes: Electricity for the world

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 12:13 pm

1. A large part of rainforest clear cutting is to raise Cattle for human consumption.

2. Quit drinking Milk - especially on the west coast - as milk now contains Radiation - almond or coconut milk is healthier for you.

3. Raising animals for human consumption wastes a tremendous amount of clean water -

4. Its healthier for you - how many 'fat' vegetarians do you see? a much lower rate of obesity occurs in vegetarians and vegans.

On and on the list can go on the benefits of a veggie or vegan diet.

And as Bruce Freidrich says "If I can choose between Mercy and Misery - every time I'll choose Mercy, If I can choose between Compassion or Cruelty every time I'll choose Compassion, If I can choose between the Oppressed or the Oppressors every single time I choose the Oppressed......

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Scappoose
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Mar. 30, 2012 7:49 am

Actually vegetarianism can greatly raise carbon emissions. Every time I eat broccoli (which I love) I raise the carbon emissions in my home tenfold. :)

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Bush_Wacker
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Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am

More Like The Methane! =:)

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm
Quote Bush_Wacker:

Actually vegetarianism can greatly raise carbon emissions. Every time I eat broccoli (which I love) I raise the carbon emissions in my home tenfold. :)

LOL...... you are the best!!! LOL

delete jan in iowa
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Feb. 6, 2011 12:16 pm

Jan In Iowa,

Don't worry about me! I am going to get that book and start reading it! I just have to get off my lazy rear end and place a hold on it in my local library! It should only take one or two days to be delivered when I finally get to it!

Micahjr34

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm
Quote micahjr34:

Jan In Iowa,

Don't worry about me! I am going to get that book and start reading it! I just have to get off my lazy rear end and place a hold on it in my local library! It should only take one or two days to be delivered when I finally get to it!

Micahjr34

Not worried at all.

Hey, on the Dems/Repubs thread #44..... very wise, keen and insightful post, really proud of you on that one! I doubt if the digging will stop.

delete jan in iowa
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Feb. 6, 2011 12:16 pm

In the last year or so in a few discussions on how people could reduce their carbon footprint, the subject of cows and their diet came up. You sometimes hear people talk (sometimes humorously) about how much methane is produced by cows ... that if more people became vegetarians, there would be fewer cows raised and less methane produced.

After one of those instances where the subject came up, another voice added to the discussion by saying the methane produced by cows can be reduced by adjusting the diet they are on. Something about the diet most cows are on is not natural for them, or does not agree with their digestive system, causing their digestive system to produce the methane. Making changes in the diet reduces the amount of methane produced.

Populations located in drought prone climates would benefit from the replacement of animal based protein in their diet with plant based protein sources such as soy products. Wind or solar energy could be used to power water pumps at wells for irrigation. Some cows or goats might still be desired for the production of milk for infants, or for other members of the population that want it.

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 12:13 pm

I can live without beef. As much as I love it, I can live without it and have nearly cut it completely from my diet. I have not had beef in several months. Is there methane in the smell of their feces too or is it only from the direct exaust fumes???.....LOL

If we could cut down on the amount of cows and sheep we need then we just might be able to help the wolves survive too.

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 9:45 am

If you are getting all your food from the supermarket, then the more you eat as a vegan (a vegetarian that also doesn't eat dairy or eggs), the lower your contributions to carbon emissions will be. This is because in the food system of the United States the first step is to grow corn, and the second step is to feed that corn to the cows. (With similar systems for other animals.) In this system, if you get the vegetables rather than the meat, you are eliminating a step and thereby reducing the energy that was used to make what you are eating.

BUT, if you are growing all your own food, and using cows/goats/sheep to eat grass and other plant life you can't eat and turn it into something you can (ie,. meat, milk), then it can be even more efficient to eat meat than to be vegetarian. Historically this is the way these animals were used AND it is what is more healthy for them, too.

You might even compromise and buy grassfed meat from the health food store. You will still have the carbon from shipping the stuff to you, but if you are buying your food from the store as most of us do, then you have already conceeded that part.

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DenisePf
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Dec. 16, 2012 1:35 pm
Quote DenisePf:

BUT, if you are growing all your own food, and using cows/goats/sheep to eat grass and other plant life you can't eat and turn it into something you can (ie,. meat, milk), then it can be even more efficient to eat meat than to be vegetarian. Historically this is the way these animals were used AND it is what is more healthy for them, too.

Well, if you are growing all of your own food then there is no need to eat meat.

If a person does decide to raise their own animals to slaughter, they better be sure they have enough suitable land for the animals to graze and enough water to adequately irrigate pastures. If they live in an area in a cold zone, probably a good idea to have enough land to grow and store hay. Without irrigated pastures and or the ability to store hay... keeping livestock for slaughter becomes a losing proposition in no time...

Quote DenisePf:You might even compromise and buy grassfed meat from the health food store.

Meat from a health food store... oxymoron?

We raised our own for a while and grass fed beef sans homones, antibiotics and other assorted chemicals is less harmful than the beef one can obtain from the store. Still, not as healthy as a starch centered vegan, whole foods diet sans added fats and oils. If one limited their grass fed meat consumption to small portions once or twice a week... it would be a great improvement over the SAD. Not so good for the cow...

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norske
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I am able to eat vegetarian when I go out to eat at a restaurant, but it is difficult for me to be a vegetarian at home because my parents insist on cooking almost everything with some sort of meat. So I ty to eat out as much as i can reasonably afford. For example, when I eat at McDonalds, I could order a large fry and coke, not a small hamburger, small fries, and coke. My parents are of the persuasion that you either eat what they make or you do not eat at all.

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm

McDonalds???? Haven't been there in YEARS!!!!!!! I do believe they have salads now though!

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 9:45 am
Quote MrsBJLee:

Is there methane in the smell of their feces too or is it only from the direct exaust fumes???.....LOL

OK seriously....can someone answer the above question for me? I truely don't know the answer.

MrsBJLee's picture
MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 9:45 am

The serious answer is methane-producing bacteria have been found in feces, and they are thought to be the same organism which produces the methane of burping and flatulence. If it is a fresh moist specimen, you would might smell natural gas from bacteria. If it is just an old dried up cowpie it's on its way to being washed into the ground for organic fertilizer. It is generally agreed that estimates on animal contributions are still estimations as no universal test for measuring and including wild animals has been developed.

Many vegans will not use leather products.

If this is not feasible, we can decrease pollution by carefully considering our choice of leather goods. As opposed to plastics or rubber in fashion, leather processing in the long run is less polluting. However, how many shoes do we need at one time? Do we need leather boots than run up the thigh and long leather coats and endless sectional leather couches or leather car interiors? These are frivolous things.

Not everyone can wear lemongrass sandals or wooden shoes, but a pair of good quality leather shoes can last years. It could outlast 5 pairs of less expensive synthetic shoes.

Just be careful what you step in.

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leighmf
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Decrease pollution the obvious way: reduce the human population. Do it the sane and humane way over time. Limit the number of children people can have. That pisses off the fundamentalists but dummies always are the ones who go forth and seed the earth with more dummies while the rich or bright folks often have few if any children. Who in their right might would want to bring a child into the world at this time.

And of course I'll piss off the ideological dieters here by saying you cannot live on a vegetarian diet without having the genes to support it. You have to eat what your body needs for nutrients not what you ideologically feel you should eat. That's just plain lame and I would expect better from my fellow progressives.

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captbebops
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Thank you for answering my question! I figured if it stunk like the outblast then it too must have methane in it. I know when my neighbor puts out cow dung on his lawn because it stinks to high heaven but that stink if I read you right is not necessarily from methane.....right? The methane would be long gone by then.....right?

I know in India, the poor folks let the dung dry up and then they burn it like wood for cooking. Man that MUST STINK!

Did you check out this link?

http://www.animalwelfareapproved.org/

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 9:45 am

There's a study about diet and carbon emissions at http://pge.uchicago.edu/workshop/documents/martin1.pdf

Thom had a conversation with Dr. Neal Barnard, an expert on the benefits of vegetariansm (in particular veganism), on Friday, in which they focused on the health aspects.

and

He's from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (http://www.pcrm.org/) and they offer a free 3-week kick-start vegan diet every month, the next one begins 1 January (http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/kickstart/kickstart-programs).

Even if, like me, you can't imagine ever going totally vegan, it makes a great way to learn more about vegetariansim, get a lot of interesting ideas and recipes, lose some weight and boost your health, and vegetariansim does not seem so hard afterwards. )

Anyone going to join me getting a healthier start to the new year?

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SueN
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

❝Nothing will benefit human health
and increase the chances for survival of life on earth
as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.❞
—Albert Einstein

Not only does meat drink fresh water. Cows consume 12 - 16 pounds of grain for each pound of meat. The grain all uses fresh water and much of it is sprayed with poison pesticides running off into more fresh water. Tax paid subsidized land and ruining streams and ponds. Especially when its exported. Pure greed. The entire infrastructure from slaughter to transporting, packaging and storage all using fossil fools. Plant a carrot and meditate on peace until its grown. Then eat it. Hemp is a drought crop that grows on hillsides or flatlands. The most versatile plant known. From nutrition to building and construction, clothing and medicine without the high. Not competition to the meat and just as dirty dairy industry lumped in with crack and pcp.

High on Hemp

Meat Slicksters under the control of the USDA not the FDA, with enough clout to take Oprah to court. Its very queer hearing the neocon's lap-puppies always gripe about taxes while subsidizing certain corporations doesn't get a peep. Like private prisons or foreign police actions costing trillions in taxes. Not a word. Just gut social security. Meat is just one more glaring observation that a portion of American's gluttony, selfishness and greed is about to hit a brick wall. Oil junkies and plastic religionists and self appointed moralists siding with Wall St the same as the Pope's concordance with Hitler. Same morons worshipping guns meat and war, lobby against pollution control. First to make non violent crimes tougher sentencing while deregulating weapons of mass destruction coming out of their smoke stacks or dumped into the rivers. Against women's rights to choice and equal pay, living wages and health care. For bigger guns with more bullets, less education and against sick people growing their own herbal remedies. Siding with Monsanto while their farms get foreclosed and their kids get cancer. Pitifools.

WHAT DOES $2,000 MEAN TO YOU?

All gung ho over no taxes for the wealthiest and for outsourcing jobs the tinkle down created. Against unions arguing on behalf of the worker against the corporations herd of lawyers. Isn't it obvious? They didn't lose the war in Germany, they simply transplanted here and now make up a large portion of our government. Because fear is heard daily from propagandists telling them to fear. What is spewed to be afraid of is 99% hobgoblin, but it makes them money making the sheople feel temporarily secure.. Like eating your veggies and less meat is stigmatized by brainlessness sufferers. They worship meat. When the church banned meat on Friday it was to sell more fish. Now the fish has mercury. Republican sheep have killed America for G-20 neocon International Banksters, Corporatists and the Wealthy top percentages. We will not forget.

USDA Says Food Shortages Are Here - Just The beginning...
On Wednesday, the USDA added another 76 counties to its list of areas designated for disaster aid, bringing the total to 1,369 counties in 31 states across the country. Two-thirds of the United States is now in mild or extreme drought, the agency said.

Why YOU should not eat meat

According to a respected ecologist at Cornell University’s College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, “Each year an estimated 41 million tons of plant protein is fed to U.S. livestock to produce an estimated 7 million tons of animal protein for human consumption. About 26 million tons of the livestock feed comes from grains and 15 million tons from forage crops. For every kilogram of high-quality animal protein produced, livestock are fed nearly 6 kg of plant protein.” cornell.edu

So even considering only the grain crops, the animals were fed more than 3 times the human-edible grain than what their bodies produced in meat.

University sources generalize that chickens need to eat 2 pounds of plant foods, to produce 1 pound of muscle (meat)..a 2:1 ratio. Pork (pigs’ muscle) has a 3:1 ratio, and beef (cattle and cows’ muscle) has a 6:1 ratio

Factors Involved in Calculating Grain: Meat Conversion Ratios
A large portion of the diets of ruminant livestock, including cattle, sheep and goats, consists of feedstuffs that are not edible by humans such as pasture, hay and crop residues (i.e., corn stalks). In some regions of the world, ruminants subsist entirely on these. However, most ruminant livestock produced under intensive conditions, (i.e., feedlots), do spend a significant part of their life eating grains and soybean byproducts, such as soybean meal and soybean oil, that are human-edible.

The situation is different with monogastric livestock, (i.e., animals with one stomach), such as hogs and poultry. Under intensive rearing conditions that are common in the United States, their diet consists almost exclusively of human-edible grains and legumes. So for these species, their feed is almost all grain and legume.

Prop 37 CA RIght to Know! Label GMOs
Cheney's Legacy of Fracking America to Death

Global Warming? It’s What’s for Dinner
Rajendra Pachauri, head of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, suggested Monday that a decrease in individual meat consumption could provide the most immediate and feasible strategy for reducing the effects of global warming. In fact, only 13 percent of global greenhouse emissions come from transportation (planes, trains and automobiles), while a whopping 18 percent of the emissions come from the planet’s livestock industry.

Insanity [is] ...
Continuing to do the same things
and expecting different results. -- Albert Einstein

Latest buzz on bee decline: Maybe it's pesticides
Monsanto Sucks, I approve this message...
Poor Community Still Sickened by Chevron
Chevron’s Dirty Legacy

Huge Recall of Beef Is Linked to Schools
The Department of Agriculture has ordered the largest ever beef recall in the U.S., deeming 143 million pounds of beef unfit for human consumption because of inspection violations. The plant responsible for the suspect meat happens to call the U.S. government, including the National School Lunch Program, one of its best customers.

Congressional Carnivores Rage Over ‘Meatless Monday’ By David Sirota —
America is suffering through the worst drought since 1950, so taking one day a week off from meat-eating seems like the absolute least we should be willing to do.

Imagination is more important than intelligence.
-- Albert Einstein

Why You Should Eat Yak Instead of Beef
By Christopher Ketcham —
Cows are terribly destructive creatures, the cause of species extinction, topsoil loss, deforestation and desertification. There’s an alternative you’ve probably never considered.

Red Meat Takes Another Hit in Health Study

The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.
-- Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the USA," 1921

WWF warns. Rich countries face increasing water shortages, a report by conservation organisation.

Farm Animals Hog 80 Percent of U.S. Antibiotics
The overuse of antibiotics can lead to drug-resistant superbugs, so it’s cause for concern to the folks at Johns Hopkins’ Center for a Livable Future that the vast majority of bug-killing drugs aren’t even consumed by sick humans.

Factory farming bon apetite'

We can never solve our significant problems
from the same level of thinking we were at
when we created the problems. -- Albert Einstein

truthdig: meat

Protein: Mad Cows v Hempseed
Currently four million Americans are diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease. The percentage of cases is on the rise with solid research showing that there are about 360,000 individuals newly diagnosed each year.
Many US Alzheimer's Victims Actually Die From Mad Cow/CJD
By David A. Kidd with Maribeth Abrams
Excerpted From the Vegetarian Voice 12-27-03
A publication of the North American Vegetarian Society

Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters,
cannot be trusted with important matters.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

Cannabis Seeds:
The Most Nutritionally Complete Food on the Planet
Hemp grain is the most nutritionally complete seed on the planet for human consumption. Each hemp seed contains 25% protein. This protein is more easily digestible than the protein in soybeans because it contains a perfect ratio of essential fatty acids (EFA's). EFA's are important for strengthening your immune system and protecting you from disease. Fish oil and flax oil are also high in EFA's, but hemp contains the most perfect ratio of EFA's for human consumption. Hemp grain is also high in iron and calcium and is an excellent source of dietary fiber.

Cloned meat a step nearer US menus

Hemp Foods

There is a duty in refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that violates the Constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private life and the political affiliations of the citizens.
-- Albert Einstein

DdC's picture
DdC
Joined:
Mar. 22, 2012 1:39 am

DdC,

I am in awe about how you find pertinent information to questions that people, including me, are passively hiding from. Your personal library must be very large and contain books that would be EXTREMELY difficult to find...

I now like Burgerking more than McD's because they have a veggie burger on their menu!

micahjr34
Joined:
Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm

Reducing the population is what is taught in college- too bad more people don't take the course.

On the subject of genes, which are made of amino acids, maybe some people do have the genes for vegetarianism because their minimum daily requirement of certain amino acids was genetically reduced by mutation. I don't think this has been studied. We go on a standard of "20 Essential Amino Acids" (EAA) but can we be sure this holds true for everyone? Or that everyone requires the same amount of an EAA?

We have seen that Minimum Daily Requirements are subject to change over the years. There is no information on our food about MDR for each EAA.

I always come to the conclusion that we need amongst ourselves both vegetarians and carnivores to maintain ecological balance, and a person's own physiology will tell them what to eat and drink or not.

leighmf's picture
leighmf
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

What I read is that the bacteria of the ruminants are mostly in the upper GI tract, which accounts for the outblasts (great word- I have been looking for a substitute for you know what), but some of the organisms have been found to make it all the way through.

Well, not knowing what form of dung your neighbor uses, it's hard to guess. What makes me sick is the smell of "fish emulsion," a popular but not necessarily very effective fertilizer.

Most likely what you smell are breakdown products of nitrogenous bacteria in an oxygenated environment.

Bacteria which produce methane gas are usually found in oxygen-depleted, or anaerobic environs. They are specialized bacteria which won't live in oxygen but use CO2 or Sulphur.

The gut has all sorts of oxygen-free folds and pockets. That is how people develop diverticulitis and related problems. These infections involve anaerobic bacteria, also a popular component of periodontal disease.

I can't say I have ever smelt burning dung, but perhaps by the time it is used for cooking, it is higher in carbon, like charcoal. Not going to try it though.

Yes I checked the link and recommend it to all. It took many years for us to define what "Certified Organic" versus "organic" and "all-natural" in food production meant. What an uphill battle for organic growers. But they fought and didn't let go and now people have a choice whether to eat poison or not.

The Organic Growers paved the way for these organizations like Animal Welfare Approved- a readily acceptable concept, don't you think?

It was DuPont which originally changed the shape of American farming (1923) to phosphate-nitrate based production which stripped soils, polluted waters, and confirmed the belief in the need for chemical magic for bigger yields

leighmf's picture
leighmf
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge. One thing I do know for sure......you can be driving past certain cow farms with all your windows up and the air re-circulating in your car instead of the air condition taking air from the outside and you still have to pound on the gas pedal to get the heck out of there fast because the smell is so bad! I don't know how anyone can get used to that smell or the smell at garbage dumps! Too bad we couldn't capture that smell and find something useful for it besides advertising air freshner.

MrsBJLee's picture
MrsBJLee
Joined:
Feb. 17, 2012 9:45 am

Then avoid the back roads in the south MrsL. Those paper mills make cows smell good. What we don't see is also a problem in that dairy cows use fresh water to get daily baths before milking. Then all the dung washes into the streams and lakes. If cows weren't subsidized with tax money these taxbugers never seem to mention, meat would be too expensive to buy. Same with fossil fools. We subsidize crap because healthy people don't profit the drug companies. Welcome to the Untied State of Anemica!

Hemp Burgers Recipe

More Hemp Burgers Recipes

Goodseed Burgers
Try the Original Hemp Patty, Spicy Breakfast Patty, or gourmet breakfast sandwiches. We have new locations and new flavors coming soon so stay tuned!

Sorta Sausage Hemp Burgers & Breakfast Patties

Why hemp paper? I thought wood was best. (excerpts)

Producing pulp and paper casts an ecological shadow far beyond its impact on the world's forests. Converting trees into paper uses large amounts of water, energy, and chemicals and generates vast amounts of air and water pollution.

The pulp and paper industry is the fifth largest consumer of energy, accounting for 4 percent of all the world's energy use.

The pulp and paper industry uses more water to produce a ton of product than any other industry.

Consumers play a pivotal role in reshaping the future of the pulp and paper industry.

40 percent of office paper still ends up in overburdened landfills.

Expanding the reuse of paper reduces the pressure to cut more trees, reduces demand on over burdened waste disposal systems and cuts energy use and pollution. One ton of recycled paper produces one ton of new paper, which is far more efficient than using virgin wood fiber.

Annual plants such as flax and hemp have been used in papermaking for thousands of years.

Hemp as Paper

Hemp fabric was smashed down into thin sheets to make the world's first paper. 75-90% of all paper in the world was made with hemp fiber until 1883. The Gutenberg Bible, Thomas Paine's pamphlets, and the novels of Mark Twain were all printed on hemp paper. Both the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence were drafted on hemp, and then copied onto parchment.

Both the long bast fiber and the short bast fiber (hurd or pulp) can be used to make paper. Fiber paper is thin, tough, brittle, and rough. Pulp paper is not as strong, but is easier to make, softer, thicker, and preferable for most everyday purposes.

Hemp Pulp vs. Tree Pulp for Paper

Making paper from trees is kind of a joke, because trees are made up of only 30% cellulose. The other 70% of the tree must be removed using toxic chemicals, until the cellulose can be formed into paper. The higher the percentage of cellulose in a plant, the better, because fewer chemicals need to be used, and less work needs to be done before the paper can be made. Almost any plant in nature with a strong stalk is better suited to make paper than trees, especially hemp because it can be 85% cellulose.

DdC's picture
DdC
Joined:
Mar. 22, 2012 1:39 am

DdC- have you information on Robert Fleming's early jute monopoly in the US? Ian's grandfather sold both sides jute sandbags for the Civil War. Afterward, he owned all the jute growing land in America. I think it was International Paper who finally made a deal with him to get jute growing out of the country. With his extensive coal mines and railroads, it didn't matter. Maybe I'm leaving something out here-

leighmf's picture
leighmf
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

DdC wrote: What we don't see is also a problem in that dairy cows use fresh water to get daily baths before milking

poly replies: What you also don't see is the urine in the milk. I worked at a dairy for a short time. When the automatic milkers are kicked off by the cow, they fall into the gutter that captures the urine...and slurp the urine into the milk vat.

Most are now accustomed to the taste of pasteurized urine milk. Remove the added flavoring, and they'd think they had tainted milk. LOL

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Got Piss?

DdC's picture
DdC
Joined:
Mar. 22, 2012 1:39 am

From the permaculturalist perspective, I think the question of animal use in an ideal regenaritive landscape remains an open question Animals can do work such as moderate soil scratching, weed and pest control, and add manure to the soil. These inputs would have otherwise been done by humans or by machines, or by chemicals. So what I am saying is that if you are simply looking at the picture of an ideal for sustainable production, there is a good argument that animals need to be around. Whether you need to eat them, or eat their by-products, is a somewhat separate issue. Lierre Kieth has brought the issue to the attention to lots of folks

Semi permeable memebrain's picture
Semi permeable ...
Joined:
Nov. 10, 2011 8:36 am

I realize this pure extrapolation, but if the average weight of a mature cow over 20 months old is around 1350 lbs and the average American over 20 years old weighs around 180 lbs, and both were fed similar diets of grain and leafy greens, It would take about seven times as much food to sustain a mature cow as it would to sustain fifteen humans. Transform all the hydrocarbon intensive agriculture for producing cattle feed to producing plant based food for humans and it only stands to reason that the result would be a reduction in the rate of adding greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere. Of course there are a lot of factors involved that could keep scientific minds occupied and debating for years, like metabolic rates, andamount of food required to cause calves to reach adult body weight in less than two years, to name a couple.

But to me the answer is obvious: Cattle farming for beef production is a very inefficient way of conserving hydrocarbon fuel and preventing greenhouse gasses from contributing to global warming. Not to mention the methane factor's contribution to the greenhouse effect . Isn't methane, which is a significant component of cow manure somewhere around 20 times as potent of a green house gas as carbon dioxide? That's what I heard, but Wikipedia is saying that, "on a molecule-for-molecule basis the direct radiative effects of methane is about 72 times stronger than carbon dioxide over a 20 year time frame."

(References: ... http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/bodymeas.htm ...

... http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/livestock/beef/breeding/breedplan/cow ...

... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas ... )

Sacramento Dave's picture
Sacramento Dave
Joined:
Nov. 27, 2010 10:46 am

In the above post, I left out discussion about the amount of energy it takes to process, store and transport the beef to market, the energy it takes to preserve and prepare the beef before it is consumed, and other ancillary factors such as the energy that is used to provide long term health care for people who consume meat and animal fat as a significant portion of their diets.

Sacramento Dave's picture
Sacramento Dave
Joined:
Nov. 27, 2010 10:46 am

LOL! Again, ideology does not make good nutritional science. Your body is a machine. It needs the nutrients it needs or it will perform poorly or even break down. You don't put more oil in your car when what it needs is gasoline.

captbebops's picture
captbebops
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

LOL Eat lots af Lard: Grease your body / machine well, and have a happy rolly polly rest of your life !

Sacramento Dave's picture
Sacramento Dave
Joined:
Nov. 27, 2010 10:46 am

All good points Dave.

MrsBJLee's picture
MrsBJLee
Joined:
Feb. 17, 2012 9:45 am

Currently Chatting

Green World Rising

In two previous videos narrated by Leonard DiCaprio and available over at GreenWorldRising.org, we’ve seen the dangers that global warming and climate change present for our planet and the human race.

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