At Least 27 Dead In Conn Elementary School Shooting

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Newtown CT:

An official with knowledge of Connecticut school shooting tells the Associated Press that 27 people are dead, including 18 children. Many of the shootings took place in a kindergarten classroom, sources told the Hartford Courant. The gunman is reported dead.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-connecticut-school-shooting-20121...

If only teachers and janitors were only allowed to concealed-carry in schools, this senseless tragedy might not have happened.

Seriously, this is hitting too close to home. I have a niece and nephew who go to school in CT. Some years back I had to call my sister to see if my brother-in-law was OK after a workplace shooting, also in CT.

I write the following as a 30+ year gun owner who believes I DO have a right to own a firearm... within reasonable restrictions. But because the Right needed to bastardize the Second for political purposes to invent a more absolutist right to a gun, innocent citizens are being forced into an arms race with armed psychopaths who seem to easily slip through the holes of current system. If these innocent citizens don't carry, they they might be the next victim... and the guns nuts on the Right will say they only had themselves to blame.

Such insanity has become the new normal.

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Pierpont
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Comments

I wonder if the shooter was criminally insane...not that is an excuse or reason of course.

Terrible! Awful! Poor children! Yuck!

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm
Quote micahjr34:

I wonder if the shooter was criminally insane...not that is an excuse or reason of course.

Terrible! Awful! Poor children! Yuck!

What I just heard reported is the shooter's mother worked as a teacher at this school and many of the students shot were in her class. The shooter first went to confront the principal which turned into a shouting match. Someone put the school intercom on and hearing the expletives, some teachers locked down their classes.

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White House Responds To Elementary School Shooting: ‘Today Is Not The Day’ To Discuss Gun Laws

***

Ok fine ... but, if not now, WHEN???

People say the same thing after EVERY big shooting incident like this ... Virginia Tech, Rep. Giffords and others in Tucson, the Aurora movie theater, etc.!

ENOUGH!!! SAY WHEN!!!

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 12:13 pm

Witness: Gunshots, screams heard on intercom before lockdown

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 12:13 pm
Quote Pierpont:I write the following as a 30+ year gun owner who believes I DO have a right to own a firearm... within reasonable restrictions. But because the Right needed to bastardize the Second for political purposes to invent a more absolutist right to a gun, innocent citizens are being forced into an arms race with armed psychopaths who seem to easily slip through the holes of current system. If these innocent citizens don't carry, they they might be the next victim... and the guns nuts on the Right will say they only had themselves to blame.

Such insanity has become the new normal.

And to borrow some lines from Bob Costis:

Our current gun culture simply ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy, and that more convenience-store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead.

Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it.

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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

another link for that update from NBC , which leads to additional segments on the story:

Witness: Gunshots, screams heard on intercom before lockdown

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 12:13 pm
Quote Pierpont:
Quote Pierpont:I write the following as a 30+ year gun owner who believes I DO have a right to own a firearm... within reasonable restrictions. But because the Right needed to bastardize the Second for political purposes to invent a more absolutist right to a gun, innocent citizens are being forced into an arms race with armed psychopaths who seem to easily slip through the holes of current system. If these innocent citizens don't carry, they they might be the next victim... and the guns nuts on the Right will say they only had themselves to blame.

Such insanity has become the new normal.

And to borrow some lines from Bob Costis:

Our current gun culture simply ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy, and that more convenience-store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead.

Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it.

More on Bob Costas and his comments on Javon Belcher, with input from additional people on the subject:

Last weekend, NBC sportscaster Bob Costas set gun nuts’ heads spinning...

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 12:13 pm

Why don't you stop throwing out bits of information that may or may not be verified, and let the facts come out as to what actually happened. I really appreciate how Michael Medved handled the situation. Calm, rational, thoughts on how to possibly prevent or minimize this from happening in the future. Many good ideas were presented by his listeners. Knee jerk reactions from either side are seldom the answer.

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Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am

I believe these posts have followed in the calm, rational thinking about another ugly gun tragedy. Pierpont writes as a gun owner, not as an irrational opponent of guns, if such opposition need be deemed irrational at all. Point being, he fits your recipe against jerking knees.

I would hardly dismiss disgust at gun culture as it has gone far beyond a humble respect for the lethal capacity of the tool or toy. The idea that it is a weapon of self-defense against human criminals rubs against any urban reality; but the far worse idea that if everyone were packing we could stop or prevent these incidents of madness and terror is terrifyingly insane.

I think it is worth discussing the bastardized and twisted "right to own" interpretation of the 2nd and place the "right" under more regulated responsibility, as we do with driving, without provoking a paranoid 'militia' reaction that has nothing to do with being "well regulated." No, the Constitution does not establish a right to own the weapons of rebellion. It did establish a well-regulated citizen militia in place of a standing army, but that lasted about long enough to wink.

The White House says now is not the time to talk about guns as people are stunned by tragedy and ready to analyze the motivations of yet another mentally ill and/or emotionally disturbed 'victim' who has done what none of us can imagine or understand ourselves doing. We are always fascinated by the crimes that we do not understand, and ready to punish these offenders severely while having a much less lurid interest in what makes banksters steal. That we understand, as we do why our own weaker moments are lapses in otherwise excellent character and conduct to be forgiven or 'punished' more symbolically than severely.

When do we get to talk about "gun culture" as opposed to one's legal rights and responsibilities to own and use them in proscribed contexts? When are gun owners like Pierpont who want to get out from under the NRA load of crap going to get taken seriously and answered with respect? When are they going to be joined by the vast majority of gun owners in demanding a national re-education campaign to stop the perpetuation of "the gun" as an article of manhood or the necessary tool for being on the American streets? When do we get to talk about the repetitive glorification of massive violence in our media, movies, games and popular myths?

I won't say that this or any incident would be stopped by a sane culture and gun control, but not only would there be a lot less doubt that we had not contributed to the tragedy, it would be a lot harder to pull off the shooting. Rather than having people who don't like guns and don't want to own them have to make the rules, why don't you all gun owners get together and give us something that looks a lot more adult and civil than the NRA and the militia movement?

drc2
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Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm

Your suggestions are?

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Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am
Quote miksilvr:

White House Responds To Elementary School Shooting: ‘Today Is Not The Day’ To Discuss Gun Laws

***

Ok fine ... but, if not now, WHEN???

People say the same thing after EVERY big shooting incident like this ... Virginia Tech, Rep. Giffords and others in Tucson, the Aurora movie theater, etc.!

ENOUGH!!! SAY WHEN!!!

Well stated...

Back in the day when I owned guns, hunted, participated in shooting competitions and what not... I thought that the NRA was a sociopath corporate front... and that was when it could have been argued that they actually did some good work. These days they have gone off the rails...

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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

All I can say at this time is that I am literally sick to my stomach. I realize that many children die in this country and throughout the world on a daily basis but something like this, all at once and in one place, can't help but shake the soul. What have we become as a species?

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Bush_Wacker
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Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am

AMEN.

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Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am

The shooter's brother said he had mental issues. NRA says he still has right to a multiple round weapon. The shooter shot his mother in her classroom, too.

One option based on the FL law of holding parents liable [both civilly and criminally] when a child accesses the family weapons cache, would be holding family and friends liable for the mentally ill gaining access to the weapon. Child molestors have to give notice where they live so neighbors are aware, gun owners should be known to the community, too. 27 shots from two pistols doesn't indicate semi-automatic or multiple round magazine. More info in the days to come.

This is the saddest day in a decade.

Home schooling will probably peak.

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Quote Redwing:

Your suggestions are?

Here's mine... I don't want to hear ANYTHING right now from gun nuts.

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Quote norske:Back in the day when I owned guns, hunted, participated in shooting competitions and what not... I thought that the NRA was a sociopath corporate front... and that was when it could have been argued that they actually did some good work. These days they have gone off the rails...

About 20 years ago when I was going for my handgun permit I rightfully had to take a handgun safety class. But back then the chief of police of any town had the right to approve these permits and one of the criteria... if one could not demonstrate legitimate need for self-defense was to belong to an NRA sports club. In good conscience I could not do so. Maybe they've always been crazed but I only first began to notice it in the 80's when they were defending Teflon coated 'cop killer' bullets and gun show loopholes. Ya, they are sociopathic. What else can you call an organization that thrives off the irrationality of their members? They instill paranoia in their members them milk them for money and votes all to extend their political influence. Screw the NRA.

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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

The shooter had twin glocks with reload clips, shot over a 100 rounds, and had a bushmaster assault rifle, all were semi-automatic. Some of the teachers had locked off their rooms after hearing the shots, part of school emergency training procedures taught in American classrooms. The lock down drill saved many lives, maybe because the intercom was on and the guy's mother recognized his voice she didn't lock down.

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Quote Redwing:

Why don't you stop throwing out bits of information that may or may not be verified, and let the facts come out as to what actually happened.

Simple solution: don't read my posts. I was trying to address micahjr34 anyway about what I heard on the radio and might not yet be up at the site I linked to.

Quote Redwing:I really appreciate how Michael Medved handled the situation. Calm, rational, thoughts on how to possibly prevent or minimize this from happening in the future. Many good ideas were presented by his listeners. Knee jerk reactions from either side are seldom the answer.

So if a right winger... possibly associated with gun nuts, realizes it might not be politically opportune to highlight that fact... he's to be commended because he's not as shrill as those angry with the insanity of our gun laws? Give us a break Red. If Iran used a nuclear weapon against Israel... should Iranian supporters be commended for wanting to take tha opportunity to have a serious discussion about how to limit nuclear weapons? THIS IS NOT A TEACHABLE MOMENT FOR GUN NUTS. It's THE RIGHT that is responsible for the gun nut lunacy in this nation. Stop pretending your guys have some moral highground. You make me sick.

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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

I believe that something definitely has to be done to stop this senseless violence. However, I am not going to speculate until the dust has settled and all the evidence is collected that needs to be collected. I am not saying this because I want to be vulnerable to gun violence, but rather because without an accurate and complete accounting, reacting to this can be more than unproductive!

For example, the shooter could have been high on drugs, suffering a mental illness induced breakdown, reacting to past psychological abuse, etc. I am a very emotional person, but it is a good idea to gather the evidence, determine what kind of situation really was happening, and then use emotion to judge what morally should be done with accuracy and psychological sobriety!

Note: I give credit to those other people calling for calm and to avoid impulsiveness here, whether they are center, left, or right.

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm

The shooter's mother might be better off dead than to have to explain and feel responsible in some way for this tragedy. The brother and father are going to be very important pieces to the puzzle.

Another stat to consider is the number of known sociopaths and has that number increased. We didn't have school shootings when I was growing up. We did have duck and cover drills.

The last elementary school shoot up was Dunblane, Scotland if I'm not mistaken. An Amish incident was notable, too. Their schools might still be combined elementary and junior high.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

"Don't shoot the messenger".

If you don't have anything constructive to add, save your usual attacks and cynicism and DON'T SAY ANYTHING!

Nobody is making you read something here, and nobody is making you reply!

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 12:13 pm

Think how terrible this horrific tragedy is. Think of the shootings in Aurora, Columbine. Tucson... or any number of other shootings that have become all too normal in the US. Now replace the term shooter with drone... and you will still not come close to the terror inflicted upon those in the Middle East and eleswhere by the US on a regular basis....

Why doesn't the slaughter of innocent men, women and CHILDREN by US drones engender the same level of disgust as mass shootings in the US do?

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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

This is the stuff of a Constitutional breakdown. I just don't care what some people think the 2nd Amendment says. This crap has got to stop.

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Quote Art:

I just don't care what some people think the 2nd Amendment says.

My sense is that the 2nd Amendment dosen't mean what many people think it does...

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Quote Redwing:

....... I really appreciate how Michael Medved handled the situation. Calm, rational, thoughts on how to possibly prevent or minimize this from happening in the future. Many good ideas were presented by his listeners. Knee jerk reactions from either side are seldom the answer.

............He was a bit too calm and rational, even matter of fact about it IMHO.....ie, ."these things happen..."...."it's not a trend" ...... I have news, Michael... it IS a trend!......but this genius caller....I was waiting for this....... who suggested pushing conceal/carry handguns for elementary school teachers as the solution.......these people are so predictable. At least Medved canned that idea.

Next thing, these people will recommend arming schoolchildren, and do it with a straight face. A whole new marketing demographic, and opportunity for industry growth.....I'm sure the NRA lobbyists are already salivating... The solution to mass gun killings is...............MORE GUNS!!

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al3
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Well, in times like these when you allow civilians to own/buy/sell modern firearms more people will have access to them. Seems to be this kid's mom had bought the guns that he used....

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David01444
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Dec. 14, 2012 7:21 pm

I agree. - As one of the discussions on Thom's program (very paraphrased) said... if the firearms of the 18th century are what people want protected - go for it! The second amendment had NOTHING to do with today's guns/assault weapons!

bgtsttg
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Quote micahjr34:Note: I give credit to those other people calling for calm and to avoid impulsiveness here, whether they are center, left, or right.

So what if we're impulsive? Hell, what does that even mean in a forum setting? We can't write laws. We're not jurors. We're not law enforcement at a crime scene.

It's somewhat of a red herring... and one that our friends on the Right seem to believe gets them off the hook a bit. Forget about the loosening of the gun laws they demanded. So what if this helps such psychopaths murder 27 people. Let's calmly reflect on the laws... while pretending they had nothing to do with passing them.

And what's wrong with having utter frustration with the nuts on the Right that are so crazed they feel the need to bastardize the Constitution so it suits their political needs?

Please don't fall for Red's false... and self-serving... framing of this senseless tragedy. I don't have blood on my hands. I'm sure our gun nut friends have all their excuses and rationalizations to explain why they don't either.

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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

Threatened by gun-wielding thugs???? What's the answer??? Archie Bunker had it 40 years ago.... ARM EVERYONE!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM

What was satire then... is the new normal... brought to us by the pathological Gun Nuts on the Right who successfully socially engineered our nation to accept a constitutional fraud. And now their phony scholars are turning out "research" to "prove" that we'd all be safer in the unsafe world they insist on... if we were ALL armed!!!!

If they can accomplish that in a mere 30-40 years... what's next? How the lie that irresponsible tax cuts = revenue booms that help strengthen the social safety net they've always wanted to dismantle!!!!

OK, they managed that too... so what next??

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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

Whoa, there! I was not suggesting the notion of arming everyone. People like me are the last ones who should own guns.

It is just that people like me who sometimes can be very emotional need to sit back and think things over!

OK, I admit it! I have to be careful about impulsiveness! I am just that kind of person... I am very strongly in favor of laws and enforcing laws that keep ALL guns out of the hands of people with mental illness or that have felony records. I was trying to communicate to people like myself. I have no problem with people who are ouraged. I am outraged. It is just that people like me have a tendency to be impulsive and I do not hide that fact. I am one one of the last people on Earth who you would want to do something with out thinking it over!

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm
Quote norske:
Quote Art:

I just don't care what some people think the 2nd Amendment says.

My sense is that the 2nd Amendment doesn't mean what many people think it does...

The Constitution was to protect all rights... at least for Freemen, so no Bill Of Rights was necessary. The Second wasn't written to protect a Freeman's right to self protection. The amendment was written to protect the viability of the state-run, well-regulated citizen militias from ever being disarmed by the new Federal Government that mandated their creation. Those well-regulated state militias of 1787 are now the state National Guards.

If the Right wing Neanderthals on the Supreme Court are going to subscribe to the lie that the Second had NO militia context.... then is there a constitutional way to limit gun sales? What about ammunition? Is that also protected?

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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

Pierpont,

It was not my intention to appear as if I was saying that being outraged over this disgusting incident and its implications is wrong. I am more than a little bit peeved myself. If that is what it appeared to be what I was saying, then I apologize. I was not saying that anger over this matter was wrong, but rather that impulsive people like myself need to think before doing. If my message communicated that none at all, then I apologize two times over...

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm
Quote micahjr34:

Whoa, there! I was not suggesting the notion of arming everyone.

Never said you were....

It's just a comment on perverse right wing, gun nut "logic".

If, in their minds, guns are "the norm" where armed citizens help the government keep crazies in line when a cop is not around... or guns are merely there for "self protection".... then that "logic" also leads to that if someone is shot by a crazie or criminal... then it's their fault for not being armed to protect themselves! Yup, the Gun Nuts are off the hook for demanding the loosening of gun laws. It's OUR fault for not being prepared for the crazies that get though the loopholes they insisted on.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

I agree very much here with you!

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm

Is it late enough after the tragedy for the numbers yet?

Are the damned critics satisfied that the news is old enough, now that the children's blood on the floors has dried or been washed up????

Twelve hours long enough ?????

Ef'em if it isn't!!!!

Elementary school massacre: 20 children among 28 killed in Connecticut slaughter

ENOUGH!!!!

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 12:13 pm

The person who disgustingly shot those young children will have to be officially identified by the parents.

The person who shot them was too cowardly to face a trial for it, so he killed himself. I feel pity for those parents!

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm

The message I just typed may make no sense, but when I am angry I tend to think faster than I type!

Still, it is true that the shooter killed himself and avoided a trial! Coward!

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm
Quote micahjr34:

The message I just typed may make no sense, but when I am angry I tend to think faster than I type!

Still, it is true that the shooter killed himself and avoided a trial! Coward!

Not sure what "coward" means. Is it that the shooter was to cowardly to deal with his malignant narcissism and needed the "confidence" of a weapon to kill 20 school kids?

So where would this pathological f*ck be today if he didn't have such easy access to those guns? He and all those now dead might still be alive. All those kids might still have had supper with the family and have long ago been tucked into bed.

When I was a kid... my fear was the imaginary boogeyman in the closet. Now, thanks to the gun nuts at the NRA, they have realistic fears that if they just go to school, they might end up dead. Yup, that's "progress"!

Thank you NRA!

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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
The person who disgustingly shot those young children will have to be officially identified by the parents.
His mother was one of those he killed. No mention so far of his father.

I think we're all looking in the place. Blaming and responsibility makes us feel good, but the answers to all this is in how the brain works. We won't know that for about a thousand years, but that's where the answers lie. Right now, we can only do the best we can. Strong gun control laws are the best I can come up with.

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Quote Art:Blaming and responsibility makes us feel good, but the answers to all this is in how the brain works. We won't know that for about a thousand years, but that's where the answers lie.
Why do we have to wait 1000 years?

Wasn't this mass shooting a "rational" act of a deranged mind operating within the context of today's society? Do we truly need 100 years to understand this simple truth?

The problem here isn't just the psychological state of the shooter... but that the easy availability of guns allowed his hate to fester and provided him his swan song grand exit. Would he have considered mass murder if mental health gun regulations barred his purchase of a gun? Would the shooter have gone into that school if all he had was a pocket knife or a baseball bat?

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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

Sigh... a gun ban would just be a bandaid laced with bacteria. Criminals would be happy if there was a gun ban. More people to prey on, unless you anti-gun people want to pay to have a police officer on every street corner. And that still wouldn't prevent incidents of being raped/assaulted/murdered by the use of knives, ropes, bats, etc. People kill people, not guns.

It's a social issue more than anything and the lack of funds to our education system. There could be more security measures at all schools put into place but people in power thinks it's more important to fund wars instead of helping/funding social programs in the US.

China has a gun ban and kids still got killed by psycopaths with knives: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1985834,00.html

So many people (about 990,000 yearly) have protected themselves from criminals with the use of firearms. Try telling them you want to take away their right to bear arms. There's about 16,000 homicides a year and about 10,000 from firearms. So not all deaths are from guns. Should we just have the TSA rules put into place everywhere in the US?

I don't know about other people, but I've had to pass the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System for every gun purchased in WA. And it's the owner's responsibility to lock them up.

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diluzional
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RED HERRING ALERT!!!

Quote diluzional:

Sigh... a gun ban would just be a bandaid laced with bacteria. .

Anyone here proposing a "gun ban"?

Didn't think so.

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Why do we have to wait 1000 years?
If you can figure out a way to accelerate the scientific process, be my guest. I picked 1000 years because I don't really know. I think that research into how the brain works is in its infancy.
The problem here isn't just the psychological state of the shooter... but that the easy availability of guns allowed his hate to fester and provided him his swan song grand exit.
No. Understanding how the brain works is the long-term goal. Gun control is the short term germacide.

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Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Pierpont:

RED HERRING ALERT!!!

Quote diluzional:

Sigh... a gun ban would just be a bandaid laced with bacteria. .

Anyone here proposing a "gun ban"?

Didn't think so.

...Troll more

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diluzional
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Sep. 19, 2012 4:02 pm
Quote diluzional:
Quote Pierpont:

RED HERRING ALERT!!!

Quote diluzional:

Sigh... a gun ban would just be a bandaid laced with bacteria. .

Anyone here proposing a "gun ban"?

Didn't think so.

...Troll more

TRANSLATION: the new troll's only response is to accuse others of trolling.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Quote diluzional:So many people (about 990,000 yearly) have protected themselves from criminals with the use of firearms. Try telling them you want to take away their right to bear arms.
I've heard there are serious methodology problems with such self-defense "studies'.

And even if true, is this not a chicken and the egg matter? Are these gallant citizen gun owners "protecting" themselves against thugs with knives and brass knuckles? Or are they protecting themselves against the very guns the thugs might NOT even own if there was more sensible gun control here in the US?

There seems to be a logical Catch 22 here.

Do you seriously believe the legal gun owner who stayed home as his wife and kids went to the local mall only to be gunned down by a psycho... would claim his individual right to own a gun was soooo vitally important to society it was acceptable if a few innocents were slaughtered to protect that right?

Didn't think so.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Quote Art:
Why do we have to wait 1000 years?
If you can figure out a way to accelerate the scientific process, be my guest. I picked 1000 years because I don't really know. I think that research into how the brain works is in its infancy.
The problem here isn't just the psychological state of the shooter... but that the easy availability of guns allowed his hate to fester and provided him his swan song grand exit.
No. Understanding how the brain works is the long-term goal. Gun control is the short term germacide.

So, humanity should just wait 1000 years for the research to be clear before we try to bar psychopaths access to biological, chemical, or nuclear weapons? Ya, we just can't be certain today's psychopaths are really as bad as yesterday's Hitler, Pol Pot, or Bin Laden. We certainly can't err on the side of caution in these cases. Of course, there's another possibility... that the availability of guns domestically or WMDs globally gives rise to more murderous psychopaths.Ya, even with that 1000 years you want, that research of yours is only as good as the questions it seeks to answer. We don't need to know WHY psychopaths kill. They'll always have a reason that makes sense to them. And does it matter if we isolate the part of the brain their murderous impulses come from? We need to be able to STOP psychopaths from a 1000 year old killing spree instead of waiting for your faux research project to be complete.

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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

Author Dave Cullen did a book on Columbine and offered insight yesterday. 3 types of mass killers, 1 is the sadistic love of killing[Columbine, Kliebold, Harris], 1 is an insane what's wrong with killing [G Giffords shooter, Aurora] the third is an angry depressive that seeks to exact revenge on those reponsible for his plight -parent, boss, workplace.

The guns he used were his moms. Had the FL law for preventing access to weapons in your name been in place he might not have gotten his mom's arsenal. He might not have passed a background check. The FL is meant to keep guns out of the hands of children, it does not impede anyone's right to own.The background check is NRA approved, just not done on 40% of gun purchasers, and not done on the sale from applicant to friend [which ought to hold the seller liable, criminally and civilly].

Mental health is not treated in the US very well. Besides stygma, insurance only pays 50% of treatment.

Any gun control measures regarding ownership are futile. There are 280 million already circulating. The right to own should never have progressed to this degree, blowback is real. Similarly the right of Israel to exist is true because it is too late to deny it. It didn't have a right in 1948, blowback exists. Lincoln may've been wrong preserving the union, too. How many problems are traced to failed decisions in the past?

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douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Holding the registered owner liable criminally and civilly is a start. If you sell your gun to someone, the license transfers just as an automobile registration. The criminal background check is actually not as effective as a psyche background check. A convicted pot smoker can't get a gun, but a terrorist watch list member can. Driver's licenses must be renewed, and with age the vision check is administered in some states. A digital survey could flag unhinged gunowners. A whole new cottage industry could crop up assisting gunowners to cheat the test, but it would be business and revenue. A huge tax on guns and ammo wouldn't reduce the violence much, but it would generate revenue and reflect the true costs seen in the externalities of a rampant gun culture.

Not a single proposal I offered infringes on anyone's rights. The multround clips are unnecessary. There are enough already in circulation, manufacture for sale should be outlawed.

I don't doubt that there is a whole generation of sociopaths concentrated in the US. There are studies reflecting this but not addressed in any meaningful way. Sociopaths + easy unlimited access to weapons just might be a volatile mix.

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douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I agree with you Peirpont!

We need to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and those who are convicted felons.

As for what I said about the shooter being a coward for killing himself, you have a point. It's just me being hyperbolic again, especially if the shooter might have had mental problems. If that is the case, then the shooter should never have had those guns. In fact, as others have suggested, he should not have had them in the first place because they were registered to another person.

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 4:57 pm

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