Gun-crazy America is arming up

45 posts / 0 new

While Vice President Biden and his gun taskforce think of ways to stem horrific gun violence in America – the shootings and the gun purchases keep piling up. According to the Children’s Defense Fund, nearly 450 children and teenagers have been shot by a gun just since the 113th Congress was sworn in earlier this month. But the NRA is refusing to contribute anything meaningful to the debate, with the head of the NRA saying on Sunday that he opposes any sort of measure that will require background checks for ALL gun purchases.

Currently, about 40% of gun purchases do not come with any sort of background check at all. And thanks to the fear mongering going on in the gun community, assault rifles are fling off the shelves around the nation. According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, there were 2.2 million gun background checks performed in December, which is more than a 58% increase over the same period in 2011.

The longer our lawmakers wait to pass common sense gun safety measures, the more weapons of war will find their way onto our street corners, our shopping malls, and our schools. It’s a dangerous game that the gun lobby is playing.

Thom Hartmann Administrator's picture
Thom Hartmann A...
Joined:
Dec. 29, 2009 10:59 am

Comments

As usual. more one half the story from Hartmann is missing.

Of the 450 kids shot, how many in cities like Chicago where firearms are totally illegal? Of the 450 shot, how many were related in any way to gang warefare? Since most criminals never deal with backround checks, and they only trust one another, the precentage of backround checks among those likely to become a shooter is a lot higher than 40%. As for the increase in gun sales, it is exactly people like you that have helped sell guns to new first time gun buyers. Criminals could care less about any laws you try to conjure up that make you feel like you have accomplished something. The NRA also thanks you for the 100,000+ NEW members they have gained in the last three weeks. So far all you have done is put tens of thousands more firearms in circulation, and the bulk of the ones sold, were the very ones you think are going to disappear someday. Socialist logic always amazes me.

Redwing's picture
Redwing
Joined:
Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am

The mayors who support sensible gun regulation are all about the urban gang problem you describe and believe that getting a handle on the gun problem is key to their task. We can also note that they are aware of the nexus in which gang culture develops and the sense of violence and macho that our culture stimulates as 'entertainment.' Of course the problem is about more than guns, but why not support bringing the weaponry out there back to civil utility instead of feeding the idea that everyone has to pack? That sounds like a gang member talking, doesn't it?

The fact that saying anything moral or sane about the mass killings with war weapons drives these paranoid idiots to the gun stores underscores the cultural pathology and insanity of this reaction. Sane gun owners who listen to what is being said would no that they have less than nothing to fear in any of it. They have a lot to like and support, unless they identify with the guys who are going around threatening to kill anyone who comes to take their guns.

Your arguments fail to explain why gun control policies have worked well in other countries. The Australian example is particularly hard to shake. They have the same macho beer drinking guys who love to hunt and shoot and play tough. Their image is a bit more rough and tumble than ours, so we are not talking about a big cultural distance from America.

But they got rid of assault weapons and the death from guns rate fell dramatically. The idea that Americans cannot do what other civilized people are doing always amazes me. The same people who want to crow about "American Exceptionalism" want us to look away from all the places we are nowhere near Number One. Isn't America "special?"

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm
Quote Thom Hartmann Administrator:

While Vice President Biden and his gun taskforce think of ways to stem horrific gun violence in America – the shootings and the gun purchases keep piling up. According to the Children’s Defense Fund, nearly 450 children and teenagers have been shot by a gun just since the 113th Congress was sworn in earlier this month. But the NRA is refusing to contribute anything meaningful to the debate, with the head of the NRA saying on Sunday that he opposes any sort of measure that will require background checks for ALL gun purchases.

Currently, about 40% of gun purchases do not come with any sort of background check at all. And thanks to the fear mongering going on in the gun community, assault rifles are fling off the shelves around the nation. According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, there were 2.2 million gun background checks performed in December, which is more than a 58% increase over the same period in 2011.

The longer our lawmakers wait to pass common sense gun safety measures, the more weapons of war will find their way onto our street corners, our shopping malls, and our schools. It’s a dangerous game that the gun lobby is playing.

Why do they include adults up to 19 years old in their statisitics of 450. You can jion the Military at 18. Therefore they are not "children"

here is thier study.

http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/protect-children-not-guns-2012.pdf

Black people just flat out shoot the shit out of themselves. Maybe it's not a Gun issue but a social and cultual issue instead.

Capital1's picture
Capital1
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2012 7:38 am

All the mayors of the high gang problem cities have done nothing about the issue for years except blame anything that does not point back to their lack of effective leadership. Check the court system. Lease space in Mexican jails for repeat offenders and your problems will go away overnight.

Redwing's picture
Redwing
Joined:
Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am

Ridiculous assertions and even more ridiculous ideas about a solution. Blame the Black mayors for Republican neocon 'benign neglect' of decades. But you folks are not racists. Of course not!

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm
Quote drc2:

Your arguments fail to explain why gun control policies have worked well in other countries. The Australian example is particularly hard to shake. They have the same macho beer drinking guys who love to hunt and shoot and play tough. Their image is a bit more rough and tumble than ours, so we are not talking about a big cultural distance from America.

But they got rid of assault weapons and the death from guns rate fell dramatically. The idea that Americans cannot do what other civilized people are doing always amazes me. The same people who want to crow about "American Exceptionalism" want us to look away from all the places we are nowhere near Number One. Isn't America "special?"

Sigh... Engaging in half truths again? Yes, the number of gun crimes went down. You somehow forgot to mention that the total number of murders went up. What's the matter? Would this inconvenient truth point out that murderers do not need guns? Or is it just that telling the whole Australia story would point out that there is no correlation between gun restrictions and total crime rates? Gee, one would almost think that it is the murderer committing the crime rather than some piece of inanimate metal.

And yes, America is special.

Paleo-con
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Back to the "rascist" fallback? By you referencing "black mayors", YOU are the rascist sir! You guys are truly single minded puppets aren't you? I could care less what color, or nationality,or sex, a criminal is. Do the time in a place without conjugal visits, cable TV, and a private cell, far, far, away from where you want to be. Sent there for an additional mandatory, no parole, ten years because you choose to use a gun in your crime, and let's see what happens to gun violence in our cities. Maybe then, the convenience store clerk will not feel the need to carry a Sig P226 with her to work every night. It certainly will not stop all the firearm related violence but it would surley minimize the majority of them that Hartmann always forgets to mention.

Redwing's picture
Redwing
Joined:
Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am
Quote drc2:

Ridiculous assertions and even more ridiculous ideas about a solution. Blame the Black mayors for Republican neocon 'benign neglect' of decades. But you folks are not racists. Of course not!

Did you look at the statisitcs that Thom cherry picked?

White 5.0/100,000 Blacks 51.1/100,000 Hispanic 14.5/100,000

What do you take from those statisitcs?

That study is full of of all kind of great qoutable stuff. If you want to call it ridiculous. I'll tell you to pull your head out of the sand.

Capital1's picture
Capital1
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2012 7:38 am

I just love how a tragic and terrible subject such as this always turns into a stat war. We need to police ourselves when it comes to guns and social issues and anything else that leads one person to kill another. Shove the stats where the sun don't shine and come up with some plausable solutions to all violent crime. I'm sure if we can do that then in turn all of these "stats" will change substantially.

Bush_Wacker's picture
Bush_Wacker
Joined:
Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am

Maybe we need to reinstate shooting clubs in schools and teach proper gun safety and responsibility to young people, as Walt Williams says in his commentary.

" When I attended primary and secondary school — during the 1940s and '50s — one didn't hear of the kind of shooting mayhem that's become routine today. Why? It surely wasn't because of strict firearm laws. My replica of the 1902 Sears mail-order catalog shows 35 pages of firearm advertisements. People just sent in their money, and a firearm was shipped.

Dr. John Lott, author of "More Guns, Less Crime," reports that until the 1960s, some New York City public high schools had shooting clubs where students competed in citywide shooting contests for university scholarships. They carried their rifles to school on the subways and, upon arrival, turned them over to their homeroom teacher or the gym coach and retrieved their rifles after school for target practice. Virginia's rural areas had a long tradition of high-school students going hunting in the morning before school and sometimes storing their rifles in the trunks of their cars that were parked on school grounds. Often a youngster's 12th or 14th birthday present was a shiny new .22-caliber rifle, given to him by his father."

http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams.html

darlinedarline1@aol.com's picture
darlinedarline1...
Joined:
Aug. 29, 2012 9:27 am
Quote Bush_Wacker:

I just love how a tragic and terrible subject such as this always turns into a stat war. We need to police ourselves when it comes to guns and social issues and anything else that leads one person to kill another. Shove the stats where the sun don't shine and come up with some plausable solutions to all violent crime. I'm sure if we can do that then in turn all of these "stats" will change substantially.

So you're mad at Thom for the OP and riddling it with statistics?

Or are you mad that people responded to the stat infested OP with more stats?

DowntheMiddle
Joined:
Nov. 7, 2011 10:18 am
Quote Bush_Wacker:

I just love how a tragic and terrible subject such as this always turns into a stat war. We need to police ourselves when it comes to guns and social issues and anything else that leads one person to kill another. Shove the stats where the sun don't shine and come up with some plausable solutions to all violent crime. I'm sure if we can do that then in turn all of these "stats" will change substantially.

Do the time in a place without conjugal visits, cable TV, and a private cell, far, far, away from where you want to be. Sent there for an additional mandatory, no parole, ten years because you choose to use a gun in your crime. Good for starters.

Redwing's picture
Redwing
Joined:
Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am
Quote Bush_Wacker:

I just love how a tragic and terrible subject such as this always turns into a stat war. We need to police ourselves when it comes to guns and social issues and anything else that leads one person to kill another. Shove the stats where the sun don't shine and come up with some plausable solutions to all violent crime. I'm sure if we can do that then in turn all of these "stats" will change substantially.

Stat war....what are we supposed to use when those who impose the strictest regulations are sitting on top of a mountain of violence and crime and murder and blaming the law abiding gun owners (and punishing them)?

9 shot, one dead in one night in Chicago...January 9th.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-09/news/chi-chicago-shootings-violence-jan-7jan-8-2013-20130107_1_shot-multiple-times-overnight-shootings-marquette-park-neighborhood

14 and 15 year old killed in Chicago...January 12th. (6 shot that night)

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-12/news/chi-boy-14-killed-on-west-side-20130112_1_separate-shootings-humboldt-park-boy-multiple-times

15 killed in the first 9 days of 2013 in Chicago...5 days ago (of course mom says he wasn't in a gang). 23 homicides so far in the first 14 days.

http://wgntv.com/2013/01/09/chicago-shooting-victim-becomes-15th-homicide-of-2013/

80 shootings so far in Chicago this year..

http://crimeinchicago.blogspot.com/

Should I keep going? These are the people implementing the toughest gun laws in the nation and have blamed law abiding gun owners, the heat, the guns themselves, etc.

Tell me, what is your solution to violent crime? Because in the corrupt state of Democrat controlled Illinois, their solution is to take the rights of law abiding citizens away, defund the police and blame the problem on global warming.

Up until 2 years ago, there was no assault weapons ban in Chicago, there was a complete ban. Handguns were banned since 1982.

In the years following its ban, Washington did not generate a decline in gun murders. In fact, the number of killings rose by 156 percent — at a time when murders nationally increased by just 32 percent. For a while, the city vied regularly for the title of murder capital of America.

Chicago followed a similar course. In the decade after it outlawed handguns, murders jumped by 41 percent, compared with an 18 percent rise in the entire United States.

There ya go Thom. There are some sobering statistics about "gun crazy America".

And for you Thom...here's how Jesse Jackson explains it...

Rev. Jesse Jackson appeared on CNN on Friday where he was pressed to defend Chicago’s strict gun control laws following the city’s 500th homicide, 87.5 percent of which are gun-related, this year. Jackson said that Chicago, unlike Newtown, has no gun culture – Newtown, Connecticut, having several gun ranges whereas Chicago has none.

Newtown has a "gun culture" because they have shooting ranges?

Funny that Newtown had zero murders for 10 years straight until the school shooting, but they live in a "gun culture" area with gun ranges.

Chicago, which apparently has no gun culture and no gun ranges topped 500 murders with 90% being firearm homicides.

So according to Jesse, those of us who live in areas with a "gun culture" are obviously more sane and less violent than those who do not.

DowntheMiddle
Joined:
Nov. 7, 2011 10:18 am

I am tired of the gun culture of death and macho insecurity fear. I am tired of an industry marketing outfit running our national politics on guns with the williing help of paranoid idiots who keep asserting all sorts of crazycrap shit about their rights and how they are going to die with their guns in their cold dead hands. I have welcomed the responsible gun owners who want some sanity here.

Sure, people murder others, but they have a harder time with most of the alternative methods than with guns. There have not been a lot of mass bayonettings and while we can all think of other means for mass murder such as poisoned water supplies, the dramatic suicide mission just doesn't have the same panache as an automatic assault weapon and explosives. When we have the guns domesticated, not taken away, we can look at the possession of explosives, etc. Again, civilian uses are fine, and monitoring may be all we need. It has no implications of tyranny when we have measures against domestic terrorism and bomb possession. Those implications occur elsewhere, but not in the fact of gun or explosive ownership.

I am also fed up with the twisted logic that has twisted the Constitution far way from intention to the blessing of a tradition and policy far from Founders Intent in the 2nd. Whatever their views on private citizen gun ownership beyond the citizen soldier v. professional, they did not put it in the Constitution. There is no Constitutional Right to Revolt. The elected authorities are subject to elections, but revolutions are not given constitutional protection or means other than democracy.

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm
Quote Bush_Wacker:

I just love how a tragic and terrible subject such as this always turns into a stat war. We need to police ourselves when it comes to guns and social issues and anything else that leads one person to kill another. Shove the stats where the sun don't shine and come up with some plausable solutions to all violent crime. I'm sure if we can do that then in turn all of these "stats" will change substantially.

To be fair, it started as a stat war. So feel free to tell Thom to shove it up his ass.

You want solution but refuse to see the problem beyond a simple sound bite. But of course that is what you want. Low information constituents hanging out your every spoon feed fabricated words. You want a solution… figure out why blacks shoot at themselves like a carnival game. It certainly not white kids playing violent video games, there to busy smoking pot and eating Cheetos.

Capital1's picture
Capital1
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2012 7:38 am
Quote drc2:

I am tired of the gun culture of death and macho insecurity fear.

I'd say move somewhere without violence.... but Antarctic is not very nice in the winter.

Capital1's picture
Capital1
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2012 7:38 am
Quote Capital1:

You want a solution… figure out why blacks shoot at themselves like a carnival game. It certainly not white kids playing violent video games, there to busy smoking pot and eating Cheetos.

Oh! Christ, here comes the next round of "all gun nuts are a rascist" comments. Maybe that goes without saying anyway, the sun came up today didn't it?

Redwing's picture
Redwing
Joined:
Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am

Apparently, there’s no logical reason for a civilian to possess an assault firearm of any type, whether it be a high capacity rifle, pistol, or shotgun. So what would be the downside to banning them?

What detrimental effects to society would occur as a result of banning something which is designed so as to allow someone with limited marksmanship skills the ability to quickly kill a large number of people?

Can anyone recall an incident where an assault weapon was used by a civilian to save the day? If so, would not a conventional firearm have been just as effective?

If the next evolution in firearms is the laser guided bullet, should we allow for the mass distribution of these to? Hell, Why not? I’m sure it would be just as much fun to shoot as an ordinary “Let’s Make Believe I’m a Badass” assault weapon. It would be an especially desirable weapon for future DC Sniper wanabe‘s.  

Why stop there. Surely, a high power laser beam gun will be available at your local Wal-Mart in the not so distant future. Of course, these probably won’t catch on so quick with the traditional GunNerd crowd. Laser guns don’t quite fit the Badass persona the GunNerds attempt to portray when they dress up in their Rambo costumes. After all, the dudes on Star Trek do look kinda gay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

organican's picture
organican
Joined:
Nov. 30, 2012 4:24 am
Quote drc2:

I am tired of the gun culture of death and macho insecurity fear. I am tired of an industry marketing outfit running our national politics on guns with the williing help of paranoid idiots who keep asserting all sorts of crazycrap shit about their rights and how they are going to die with their guns in their cold dead hands. I have welcomed the responsible gun owners who want some sanity here.

Sure, people murder others, but they have a harder time with most of the alternative methods than with guns. <snip>

I would think you would also be tired of being wrong all the time. I suppose you just have a lot of energy for some activities. I know your history prevents you from presenting any material from doing homework, but just this once, could you point to any evidence that murderers have a harder time with their craft sans guns? Just one place where the total murder rate dropped as a result of banning guns will do. In the mean time, all those evil stats will continue to demonstrate that a criminal intent on murder does not care how easy it is. Besides, if a criminal doesn't care if murder is illegal, why would they care if guns are illegal?

Paleo-con
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote DowntheMiddle:
Quote Bush_Wacker:

I just love how a tragic and terrible subject such as this always turns into a stat war. We need to police ourselves when it comes to guns and social issues and anything else that leads one person to kill another. Shove the stats where the sun don't shine and come up with some plausable solutions to all violent crime. I'm sure if we can do that then in turn all of these "stats" will change substantially.

So you're mad at Thom for the OP and riddling it with statistics?

Or are you mad that people responded to the stat infested OP with more stats?

Both. Thom's or the moderator's posts on the subject are becoming tedious and so are all of the pro gun retaliations. I, myself am a gun owner and I've been hunting for 40 years or so but I won't allow myself to get too caught up in statistics in lew of all these people dying. Forget the statistics for each side can and will find numbers to suit their argument. It's time to figure something out. Both sides to this problem would rather bicker ideals than actually work on solutions. We the people are getting as bad as the politicians themselves.

Bush_Wacker's picture
Bush_Wacker
Joined:
Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am
Quote Redwing:
Quote Bush_Wacker:

I just love how a tragic and terrible subject such as this always turns into a stat war. We need to police ourselves when it comes to guns and social issues and anything else that leads one person to kill another. Shove the stats where the sun don't shine and come up with some plausable solutions to all violent crime. I'm sure if we can do that then in turn all of these "stats" will change substantially.

Do the time in a place without conjugal visits, cable TV, and a private cell, far, far, away from where you want to be. Sent there for an additional mandatory, no parole, ten years because you choose to use a gun in your crime. Good for starters.

Now there's an idea that would make my list. It's an actual idea towards a solution instead of the usual back and forth banter of my stats show this and your stats show that.

Bush_Wacker's picture
Bush_Wacker
Joined:
Jun. 25, 2011 7:53 am

A restriction on the number of firearms that may be purchased in a certain length of time. This would naturally have to exclude FFL dealers. There currently is something like this in effect and a call from the BATF comes to some that cross over whatever line is established.

A requirement prohibiting any transactions at a Gun Show without going through one of the authorized FFL dealers at the show, thus forcing the backround check that is currently evaded.

A much more thorough PUBLIC display to all the Moms and Pops of the viedo games that their kids are watching. Make the parents watch along as their 12 year old shoots cops and hookers are run over with a sportscar to gain points.

A discussion on why the current top movies are so violent. #1 Texas Chainsaw Massacare? 2. Django unchained? etc.

A way to explain to Judges that he was not really "a nice boy" as stated by his mother at time of sentencing, and if you give him a slap on the wrist, you, your honor, may be in the cell next to him in Mexico, if you do not enforce the law as directed by the penal code.

Redwing's picture
Redwing
Joined:
Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am

Thanks, that was a better way and points worthy of discussion and a lot of agreement. Points 1-4 are pretty straight-forward, although I would expand the list of movies and entertainment violence to include all the glorification of violence. Tarrantino uses violence to shock and disgust, not to make us believe that Bruce Willis can blow up the world around him and leap through space without dying, hardly.

We can also talk effective use of courts and prisons instead of getting caught up in a useless stereotype polemic about "coddling" v. Gulags. Our prison industry sentencing guidelines and sweep of criminalization send a lot of people to jail who should not be there. The structural funnels leading to prison are bigger at the bottom and very narrow at the top no matter what scale of criminality we might find there. You can get tough and simple or you can deal with the world with some intelligence and nuance because it comes less neatly packaged than we might like. When you reduce the world to your convenience or emotional satisfaction, you miss a lot that matters.

Do you have any deep awareness of what would make someone sent to jail "change" rather than have some darn decent reasons to feel abused or unlucky and not guilty enough to deserve this shit? It is easy to over-punish and get a counter-productive response. The effectiveness of punishment at all is hard to measure or prove. A repentant criminal may 'desire' a severe sentence, but is not one who needs one. The ironies in this punishment fitting the crime game abound. We punish what scares us and give a slap on the wrist to the crimes we understand deeply. That is also how we write the penal code.

How about getting tough with the criminals at the top and doing some serious crime prevention investment in the human beings who now join gangs and look at a future with jail as the likely common denominator? Once upon a time, we fought a good war, the one on Poverty. We were winning that one before they pulled the funding for those other loser wars.

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm

Great job Thom, Ref to your TV show today, now the gun nuts will demand slaves for their guns under the second amendment.

Vjmali's picture
Vjmali
Joined:
Jan. 14, 2013 6:17 pm

What`s the 1% up to? When the natives are restless, start a war. Among themselves! Most of these terror killings has been because of "job lost", then we get "Stand yor ground" laws. Now we have a run on guns that cost a thousand dollars in a Depression economy, who can afford these guns? What do these dots add up to? 99% BEWARE!

tayl44's picture
tayl44
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Thom,

Thank you for staying on this issue! Please get the word out that the Million Moms March Against Gun Violence is scheduled for January 26 in Washington, D.C. More information is at the web site http://onemillionmomsforguncontrol.org/ .

Warmest Regards,

Progressive Mommy

Progressive Mommy's picture
Progressive Mommy
Joined:
Jan. 15, 2013 5:57 am

I hate to breask it to you, but the 1% hires guns to protect themselves. Much like Obama signing a new law requiring ex-presidents to have security for life rather than the ten years following their term in office that Clinton signed. The rest of us need to be responsible for our own protection.

The documented new gun sales, new gun permits, and NRA memberships are going to the 99%, both conservatives and liberals, that have become tired of the tripe from the progressives.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/12/Obama-Signs-Law-Givin...

Redwing's picture
Redwing
Joined:
Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am
Quote Progressive Mommy:

Thom,

Thank you for staying on this issue! Please get the word out that the Million Moms March Against Gun Violence is scheduled for January 26 in Washington, D.C. More information is at the web site http://onemillionmomsforguncontrol.org/ .

Warmest Regards,

Progressive Mommy

For those that think otherwise

http://gunappreciationday.com/

Redwing's picture
Redwing
Joined:
Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am

Crime-falling-across-Australia.

this is not a NRA fed site so you wan't get a treat when you click it.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

Crime-falling-across-Australia.

this is not a NRA fed site so you wan't get a treat when you click it.

Great site, thanks for the reference. I hope this douglaslee blessed site will show drc and others the folly in the "guns = violence" theory. Even after the reduction in gun ownership, Australia's homicide rate was the only one of the five categories of violent crime that did not go down. What does the fact that even with reduced gun ownership, the homicide rate increases prove? For drc, it proves that knives (the number one device used) can kill just as "easy". For everyone else, it proves that we need real, enforceable, and plausible solutions to violence. It also proves that the machinated theory that guns and violence are somehow unequivocally linked is fatuity.

Paleo-con
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Progressive Mommy, right-on and more power to you. In response to your protest, we can judge "how insane the ruling class" is? PS please bring the kids.

tayl44's picture
tayl44
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

The 1% hire guns have yet to save them from empire graveyards and anybody that have the money for thousand dollar guns in this economy put most of them with the 1%. "Tired of the tripe from the progressives", there is a warm place in hell waitng for the "regressives"!

tayl44's picture
tayl44
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Empirical evidence can go back and forth. For me it is common sense that guns create the conditions in which significant violence to more easily occur. It seems lie a common sense inference that someone capable of commiting violence will do so more readily when a gun is at hand. Stabbing folks is just too messy and personal for those who prefer to murder from a distance

Semi permeable memebrain's picture
Semi permeable ...
Joined:
Nov. 10, 2011 8:36 am

27% drop in the number but no drop in the rate. Maybe migration caused the population to sink. Fewer homicides but same rate. Population of 10 with one homicde is 10% rate. Get down to the last two a 50% rate might be goal, and each would say "I could live with a 50% homicide rate"

  • There has been a 27 per cent drop in the number of homicides between 1996 and 2010, with a drop of 11 per cent between 2009 and 2010;
  • The homicide rate is 1.2 per 100,000 population;
  • The number of victims of robbery in 2010 is the lowest on record since 1996, with 14,582 victims. Robbery victim numbers peaked in 2001 with 26,591 victims;
  • Murder and sexual assault occurred most frequently within residential settings - 61 percent of murders occurred in a residential dwelling and 63 percent of sexual assaults occurred in a residential dwelling;
residential dwelling for both rape and murder sounds like domestic abuse. Robbery is easier with a gun, robbery is down. The knife the knife, they are using knives!!! You can out run a knife and win, try and out run a gun.you still might win, but the bullet will still beat you.
douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

If you think $1000 dollars is a lot of money, you are really going to become depressed when you find out how many guns you could have bought with the new increased tax $ coming out of your wallet to support Obamacare.

Redwing's picture
Redwing
Joined:
Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am

http://atruthsoldier.wordpress.com/tag/proven-sandy-hook-is-a-huge-hoax-continuous-updates/

Read this & see if it doesn't get you to thinking, go to youtube & search out Sandy Hook Hoax unbelievable what is there for you to know.

JudyKaczor
Joined:
Apr. 21, 2011 6:56 pm

My vote for craziest thread

Semi permeable memebrain's picture
Semi permeable ...
Joined:
Nov. 10, 2011 8:36 am

Depress about health care tax vs a thousand dollar gun? I jump for joy to pay something so we can become more "civilize"! I really jump for joy when we get rid of the "Military Industrial Complex" tax! PS how many weapons can protect an uncivilize society?

tayl44's picture
tayl44
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Here in this country they like to try to tell me that a woman who is raped and strangled with her own underwear is morally superior to a woman who has to explain to an officer why her attacker has a bullet hole in his chest.

I will choose to spend my $1000 on a firearm, thank you very much.

Redwing's picture
Redwing
Joined:
Jun. 21, 2012 5:12 am

Paleo, the issue is mass murder, and that pretty much stops when the assault weapons are not available to people with murderous intent. If you have read any of my posts on this issue over the years, you know that I do give the culture of violence and the narratives of "just violence" and revenge a large role in fostering bad attitudes and justifications for violence in real life. As with Michael Moore, I can appreciate that Canada has as many guns per citizen or more than we. Moore targeted 'fear' of neighbors in America where Candadians do not have the same feeling. I have made a point about America being in a culture of Basic Distrust and suspicion of others where Basic Trust is foundational to healthy human development and societies.

It is the symbolism and romanticism (macho) associated with guns that bothers me. For people who use guns as tools and toys and for whom they are things they can use and enjoy, I have no problem. For people who see their manhood, power, dignity and security coming out of the barrel of their gun and who love that "pry it from my cold, dead hand" bravado, I have lots of problems and don't want to be near them when they are packing.

We know that the ongoing massacre is as real and tragic as these headline events like Sandy Hook. I hate the way the incidents become everything about the problem and the measures we will take to prevent this are..... But we cannot have a sane discussion without a traumatic event, so the wise political operative knows to take advantage of a crisis. I am all for a serious attempt to deal with urban gang violence, although I am williing to bet that a soft approach will work where a hard approach will not. It is a lot like getting to the terrorist in interrogation. These children are not evil beings. There are way too many of them and their stories are too similar to ignore. They need a lot of love and their families need help. They do not need more cops keeping the natives in line.

Please explain to me why civilians ought to own military use weaponry. I will refrain from saying that they have no right to them if you can explain what legitimate use they have and how that use allows them to have more than access to the weapons for that purpose and that purpose only. We have no right to rebellion in the Constitution. We do have a mandate in the Declaration to throw off tyranny, but how that reduces to armed rebellion against the greatest military power in the history of the world eludes me.

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm

And when odictator, by unConstitutional edict, declares his 19 point anti-gun agenda as psuedo-law of the land and then another Sandy Hook happens, what will be the knee-jerk, feel-good, do nothing next step be?

Executive orders are not law. Laws can only be passed by Congress and the POTUS can either sign them into law or veto the law. If the cowards in Congress let odictator get by with this, then they have failed in their sworn duty to uphold the Constitution, and they and odictator must be held accountable.

I do not think that rank and file soldiers in the military would stand for orders to turn on their own people.

"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46

darlinedarline1@aol.com's picture
darlinedarline1...
Joined:
Aug. 29, 2012 9:27 am

Enjoy your "uncivilize world" with your $1000 gun. I wonder what kind of odds Wall St would give you in surviving?

tayl44's picture
tayl44
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote drc2:

Paleo, the issue is mass murder, and that pretty much stops when the assault weapons are not available to people with murderous intent. If you have read any of my posts on this issue over the years, you know that I do give the culture of violence and the narratives of "just violence" and revenge a large role in fostering bad attitudes and justifications for violence in real life. As with Michael Moore, I can appreciate that Canada has as many guns per citizen or more than we. Moore targeted 'fear' of neighbors in America where Candadians do not have the same feeling. I have made a point about America being in a culture of Basic Distrust and suspicion of others where Basic Trust is foundational to healthy human development and societies.

I want to have a serious also. The trouble is when people just make stuff up, like "mass murder pretty much stops when assault weapons are not available". If we are to have a serious discussion, which we should, it has to be based on reality. Holmes' assault rifle jammed almost immediately; he then proceeded to kill the 12 people with handguns. Did the lack of his assault weapon "pretty much" stop the mass murder? Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people with two handguns in Virginia Tech. Did the lack of an assault rifle "pretty much" stop a mass murder? Feelings, hunches, and machinations are fine in the world of opinions, but need to be left at the door when addressing real and plausible solutions. I wonder, do you also appreciate that the number of gun crimes has dropped by half, while the number of guns had doubled here in the United States? If so, we are on the way to discussing how criminals commit crimes and not inanimate objects.

Quote drc2:It is the symbolism and romanticism (macho) associated with guns that bothers me. For people who use guns as tools and toys and for whom they are things they can use and enjoy, I have no problem. For people who see their manhood, power, dignity and security coming out of the barrel of their gun and who love that "pry it from my cold, dead hand" bravado, I have lots of problems and don't want to be near them when they are packing.

If that is true, why do you only seem to support regulations that restrict people that use guns for toys and tools? You know... Law abiding folks.

Quote drc2: But we cannot have a sane discussion without a traumatic event, so the wise political operative knows to take advantage of a crisis. I am all for a serious attempt to deal with urban gang violence, although I am williing to bet that a soft approach will work where a hard approach will not. It is a lot like getting to the terrorist in interrogation. These children are not evil beings. There are way too many of them and their stories are too similar to ignore. They need a lot of love and their families need help. They do not need more cops keeping the natives in line.

We are miles apart here. I call the low life that pursues a political agenda on the coffins of children a scoundrel, not a wise man. The soft approach has been tried. Just visit your nearest inner city to see the results. Again, we are miles apart. I am willing to acknowledge that evil does exist, and that evil needs to be quelled, not coddled. If you want to show families some love, as I do, then how about providing an environment where their children are not being killed every day.

Quote drc2:Please explain to me why civilians ought to own military use weaponry. I will refrain from saying that they have no right to them if you can explain what legitimate use they have and how that use allows them to have more than access to the weapons for that purpose and that purpose only. We have no right to rebellion in the Constitution. We do have a mandate in the Declaration to throw off tyranny, but how that reduces to armed rebellion against the greatest military power in the history of the world eludes me.

Civilians ought to own the weapons they want to own. Having said that, I don't think weapon systems like a functional tank belong in civilian hands. But something that serves as a reasonable crossover, like a rifle, does not deserve to be restricted. Let me see if I got your reasoning correct. If you start saying or writing things that are in rebellion to the Constitution, your free peach rights should be taken away. After all, only some macho stricken yahoo who sees "their manhood, power, dignity and security" coming out of their mouth would resist reasonable speech restrictions.

You ought to be able to say what you want, engage in your own religion, write your own press, vote for whom you like, and own a weapon. Unlike you, I see the Bill of Rights as a package, not a Chinese menu.

Paleo-con
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Free peach usually refers to freestone and whether it has a pit. Everyone deserves that choice. Sorry I do not usually point at a spelling mistake, but I just thought it was amusing

Semi permeable memebrain's picture
Semi permeable ...
Joined:
Nov. 10, 2011 8:36 am

Currently Chatting

GOP Blocks Equal Pay...again.

Just in time for election season, Senate Republicans blocked legislation aimed at closing the gender pay gap. For the third time since 2012, Republicans refused to allow debate on the Paycheck Fairness Act, and reminded women that the GOP doesn't believe in equal pay for equal work.

Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system