Obama's Legacy = Democratic Majorities for Years To Come

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The GOP is so busy trying to do and say ANYTHING they can to screw Obama's legacy, they aren't paying attention to what it is doing to them politically in the long run and how ugly they look to the casual observer right now. The 2012 election showed this and 2014 will be no different. It may take a few more elections, but the GOP as currently configured is headed for the dustbin of political history -- permanently, largely thanks to the Obama Presidency. So even if Obama accomplishes NOTHING ELSE in his second term (a likely prospect), this particular legacy will prove more valuable to the regular working people of this country than the legacy of any other Democratic President in the modern era. We are essentially watching the final stage of a struggle that began with the Civil War. Newsflash: The North Wins in the End.

I love how fools on the right don't get this. Obama has 75% of the country behind him. He's a moderate right winger (now virtually extinct from the GOP). The beltway class loves him -- David Gregory Loves Him. He wants to cut safety nets and he's a Hawk. Liberals think he's pretty much a traitor to them but they will take him over ANY GOP guy. Anyone who opposes him looks like a left or a extreme right loony to the average voter. He's insulated in that way. It's the GOP that is going crazy trying to oppose him no matter what, desperately trying to attract his dwindling set of haters. The GOP now embraces the sequester siding with Ron Paul's rationale of all people on those Military Cuts. They are officially a fringe party now. Of course their game plan is to stall the recovery and blame Obama. But Obama's getting the Corporations AND a supermajority of the populace on his and the Democratic team's side. Obama's Legacy = Democratic Majorities for Years To Come especially now that the corps are making record profits. Where does this leave the GOP? Can they really claim they could be MORE CENTRIST and BETTER FOR BUSINESS than this guy? LOL.

The bottom line is the leadership and most of the GOP as currently configured has gone over to the Ron/Rand Paul fringe. They have also embraced extreme right wing social positions as well. Add to that the Ryan-Bain-Capital-style economic agenda and you have the makings of a hopelessly doomed party. The blatant racism for Obama and his supporters (who actually want the "entitlement" of the right to vote -- how dare they!) now on display only nails the coffin in further for these people.

On the other side, guess what we have in Obama 2013? We have Reagan. The real Reagan. Yeah I'm talking about Obama. Who is currently pushing policies that are far closer to something the Real Reagan would agree with. Reagan was no tea partier -- he was no Ron Paul. Ok Obama is better than Reagan for progressive causes, I suppose. But that's how he's gonna "work it" from here on out. He's gonna appeal to the beltway center-right. Folks like David Gregory, Tom Brokaw, Ed Rendell, Simpson, etc. All these guys are committed to the "Balanced approach" and they clearly see the Ryan Plan and Rand Paul as fringe.

I know liberals hate this centristy crap, and for good reason. It's bad policy. But it SEEMS reasonable to the masses, that's all that matters. The good news for liberals and the country is: THE BALANCED APPROACH WILL NEVER PASS UNDER OBAMA. It won't pass now because gerrymandered teaparty Republicans are committed to opposing anything Obama proposes because he, Obama, proposed it. It won't pass when Democrats increase their majorities after successive elections, because the liberal voice will be much stronger and the plan won't include entitlement cuts.

So I ask that liberals just calm down and let this bluff of the "balanced approach" by Obama play out --(unless it really looks like it's gonna pass -- then make all the noise you want) But I promise you, it won't be accepted by the GOP as currently configured. Obama has all but guaranteed this by calling it "MY PLAN" and he knows this full well. But what it will do is make the GOP a permanent minority party for YEARS TO COME -- their refusal to work with a plan dubbed by the beltway as "EMINENTLY REASONABLE AND BALANCED" will look like lunacy to all but a lunatic fringe. Are you starting to see the poker game Obama is playing here yet? I believe I do.

And those who really hate Obama should listen to yourselves. You sound SO PETTY. SO DUMB, really. You can't even refer to our President without calling him dumb names or accusing him of the most outlandish crap. It is just this kind of juvenile behavior and baseless hate from a large portion of the GOP, which includes the leadership, that is marginalizing the party. In the absence of true reasons to despise this President -- who hasn't spent any more than any other President faced with a massive economic downturn (probably A LOT LESS, to his discredit) -- so many on the right side just want to label him a socialist or a Muslim or whatever. It's sad to behold. And it's clear they do this because they have really nothing factual to say to disparage Obama, at least from the right-wing point of view. (On social issues, maybe, that is all. But then again, EVERY issue is now a social issue to the GOP when there's a black president.) Obama has deported tons of so-called illegals & sealed the borders. He's been a competent moderate, Republican President for all practical purposes (if you look at the current law and tax structure, it's bent to the center-right), much to the dismay of real left liberals -- REAL SOCIALISTS!!. If a President McCain had done EXACTLY the same things Obama has done he would be being praised by the right NOW for improving the economy while still keeping taxes low. Our side would be complaining about a jobless recovery.

So that's Obama's legacy. Add to that an 8-year Obama filibuster on the Bain Capital Econ Plan, ie, the GOP plan for the economy. I think it will hold up well when seen in this light.

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loganonenation
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Comments

About 145 gerrymandered republican districts have no minorities. The right wing wives vote as their husbands tell them to, so women's rights don't matter. The kids in the basement paying off usury college loans might not be allowed to vote with college IDs or are not proper residents. The elderly will move in, too after medicaid cuts off nursing homes. The police and vets might vote against the cop killer bullets, but they are likely laid off and moved to trailer parks, or homeless. !45 are permanant Looney Gomer style hucksters, and delivering Heritage Jim Demint boxed parrot votes. Demint said he would rather lose than compromise or govern.

Remember the Heaven's gate cult mass suicides? They were true to their beliefs also, and they were going to ride the comet to the next level of existance. Apple juice spiked with cyanide, plastic bags over their heads, 5 quarters for admission to the comet. Some castrated themselves too, freeing them from that sex thing that gets in the way. C-pac cult hasn't advised castration yet, but Trump in his coming speech can do anything as can Allen West, Sarah Palin, and Ayn Rand fanatic Ryan. C-pac groupies might trade sex with reknowned conservatives like West and Ryan since they are celebrities within their cult. Tucker Carlson makes up sex scandals, maybe he qualifies as a celebrity, or gets a mercy romp because of his bowtie.

C-pac groupies also chant and jeer and bob their heads when "Tax and spend" cues them verbally. Liberal is not a banished label anymore in some circles, but I bet rape doesn't get a mention at all. 145 indoctrination districts until the next census, and a speaker that can't bring anything to a vote because it will pass, even if he votes against it his fingerprints would say governing, the cardinal sin to tea party quacks.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Will it help oliar's legacy by cutting out White House tours? Despite the fact that his golf outings cost more taxpayer dollars than those tours. I think it is HIS anger at repubs for calling his bluff and forcing him to sign into law his own sequester cuts.

During Ospender’s administration the U.S. has taken on $6 trillion in debt, averaging over a trillion dollars in deficit spending each year. The sequestration cuts amount to about a 2 percent reduction in government spending and the U.S. Senate, led by dem, dirty Harry Reid, has not produced a national budget in four years.

What is he going to do berfore his next million dollar plus golf outing? Cut school lunch programs? Release more illegals that have committed crimes? Ospender's little outing in Florida cost enough to keep the White House running for months.

I think his childish and dishonest exaggerations about the effects of HIS sequester are going to hurt his phoney legacy. Maybe not so much with low information voters.

darlinedarline1@aol.com's picture
darlinedarline1...
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Quote darlinedarline1@aol.com:

Will it help oliar's legacy by cutting out White House tours? Despite the fact that his golf outings cost more taxpayer dollars than those tours. I think it is HIS anger at repubs for calling his bluff and forcing him to sign into law his own sequester cuts.

During Ospender’s administration the U.S. has taken on $6 trillion in debt, averaging over a trillion dollars in deficit spending each year. The sequestration cuts amount to about a 2 percent reduction in government spending and the U.S. Senate, led by dem, dirty Harry Reid, has not produced a national budget in four years.

What is he going to do berfore his next million dollar plus golf outing? Cut school lunch programs? Release more illegals that have committed crimes? Ospender's little outing in Florida cost enough to keep the White House running for months.

I think his childish and dishonest exaggerations about the effects of HIS sequester are going to hurt his phoney legacy. Maybe not so much with low information voters.

Nobody is foolish enough to suggest the sequester won't hurt the economy. The GOP is only willing to let it happen to save face and to tarnish the recovery and thereby Obama. Obama has done what any reasonable center-right politician would have done in the face of massive economic collapse and the voters affirmed that in 2012. Opposing Obama just because he's Obama is not hurting Obama, it only hurting your misguided party.

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loganonenation
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I am not a repulsive!

Oblamer is deliberately making cuts to impose maximum pain on the American people. What is his legacy going to be? unConstitutional asassination of American ctizens on American soil without due process? Cutting meat inspection while continuing to fund wine tasting.

He is one arrogant a--hole!

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darlinedarline1...
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Quote darlinedarline1@aol.com:

I am not a repulsive!

Oblamer is deliberately making cuts to impose maximum pain on the American people. What is his legacy going to be? unConstitutional asassination of American ctizens on American soil without due process? Cutting meat inspection while continuing to fund wine tasting.

He is one arrogant a--hole!

No. He's a middle of the road centrist trying to do the best he can for the American People. He is one of the most likeable presidents we've ever had. Nobody who is not ultra-partisan will EVER believe that he's a radical or an a-hole. And that's a BIG problem for your party. The sooner the GOP realizes this, the sooner they will begin to win elections again. I predict it will take an entire generation before you folks see the light of reason again.

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loganonenation
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The deficit he inherited has been cut in half, and all job creation was private without government funding that all presidents have used to hire and stimulate growth. The new jobs have been private, the layoffs were government or austerity, and were stupid but done by republican governors, for the most part. The stimulus created under W had half going to tax cuts to people that didn't need it and didn't spend it. The fica holiday offered real stimulus but Obama included it in the paycchecks and some people didn't realize they had gotten a raise. W offered less that accomplished nothing but had checks mailed out in a Sweepstakes like promotion, all hat and no cattle. Like his mission accomplished, or his Katrina floodlight hollywood staging, or his shills with his own questions in pseudo news conferences.

See, ya jest have to look the part, hehe. He never did manage to look inquisitive or insightfull. His library was one book on farts, such a prodigious reader he was.

The low information voters spoken of must be the 145 gerrymandered no minority, no challenge districts. Some districts mentioned in the 2006 voting rights renewal canceled elections because the demographics indicated democrats, or in scalia parlance 'racial entitlements', or english for right to vote. I was in London when the tube sought an on time record unmatched, so to get the time as published they didn't stop at some destinations, but they were on time. The passengers were late because of the skipped stops but the train was on time. UK is currently in their third recession from the austerity that republicans seek in the US. Recession with less revenue and more expensive debt as well as increased debt, but they cut spending.

If inflation is 4% and you get a cola raise of 2%, republicans call it a raise and primary anyone that voted for it. Chained CPI is a cut and should instead be an elderly inflation adjuster that is greater than the Cost of living index. I don't know who they're going to screw, the people getting the checks now or the 55 and under that will get less. Hedge fund managers don't pay taxes or fica so they don't care.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Democratic majorities for years to come -

Ahhh - the house is repub controlled I hate to tell you.....

And we heard this same meme after the 2008 elections only to see the dems tank it in 2010.

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Scappoose
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Mar. 30, 2012 7:49 am

The challenge is getting Latino voters in Texas and Arizona to go to the polls in the same %'s as Californian Latinos. That happens and the House and Senate are both 55% plus Democratic for a generation.
2010 elections' numbers show Democratic voters stayed home.

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Phaedrus76
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Quote loganonenation:

No. He's a middle of the road centrist trying to do the best he can for the American People.

Whatever helps get you through the day....

In the real world, Obama has continued with and in many cases expanded upon the neo-liberal policies of his predecessors and is on track to surpass Reagan, Bush, Clinton and even Bush/Cheney in doing harm to the people of the US and the rest of the world... As Glen Ford explained, "Obama is the more effective evil"...( http://blackagendareport.com/content/why-barack-obama-more-effective-evil) as he gives the imprimatur of governing from the "left". Seriously, no GOP president would have been able to get away with the evils committed by the Nobel Peace Laureate Democratic President...

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norske
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douglaslee, "The deficit he inherited has been cut in half, and all job creation was private without government funding that all presidents have used to hire and stimulate growth. The new jobs have been private, the layoffs were government or austerity, and were stupid but done by republican governors, for the most part."

How has he cut the deficit in half while increasing the debt $6 trillion with trillion plus deficits? What kind of fuzzy moonbat math is that?

The vast majority of the public sector job losses have come at the state and local level, where balanced budget requirements coupled with plummeting tax revenues have caused many states to parse back the payrolls. Maybe the bloated federal government could take some lessons from the states in how to CUT spending. Federal jobs since oliar's election have grown by 7% or 150,000 more bureaucrats, (this does not include census workers or postal employees).

Moonbats still blaming bushie for oblamer's failures. Hmm....

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darlinedarline1...
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Quote darlinedarline1@aol.com:

douglaslee, "The deficit he inherited has been cut in half, and all job creation was private without government funding that all presidents have used to hire and stimulate growth. The new jobs have been private, the layoffs were government or austerity, and were stupid but done by republican governors, for the most part."

How has he cut the deficit in half while increasing the debt $6 trillion with trillion plus deficits? What kind of fuzzy moonbat math is that?

The vast majority of the public sector job losses have come at the state and local level, where balanced budget requirements coupled with plummeting tax revenues have caused many states to parse back the payrolls. Maybe the bloated federal government could take some lessons from the states in how to CUT spending. Federal jobs since oliar's election have grown by 7% or 150,000 more bureaucrats, (this does not include census workers or postal employees).

Moonbats still blaming bushie for oblamer's failures. Hmm....

Funny how those states also spent any savings they got from firing public workers to pay for tax cuts for the super rich. Funny how those policies did nothing to help their unemployment situation at all. So much for the tired old Reagan and his snake oil ideas. Do really believe the bs your throwing here are you just a paid propagandist for the righ? Nobody could honestly be so boneheaded, can they? Either way, stop. You are embarassing yourself.

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loganonenation
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Probably a neo-liberal party retaining control because the other neo-liberal party is shooting itself in the foot is nothing to celebrate.

"But looking past Obama’s hypnotic rhetoric, one finds a political graph marked by one artificial crisis after another, perpetrated by Democrats and Republicans alike. The debt ceiling, the fiscal cliff, sequestration. Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran. Every one a politically manufactured, fear-mongered crisis. Every one carrying a trillion-dollar price tag. Every one a bipartisan swindle. It’s Disaster Capitalism par excellence, as Naomi Klein laid out in her bestseller The Shock Doctrine, which popularized how crises are manipulated to justify the introduction of fiscal austerity."

From the earliest days of his presidency, Obama signaled that “entitlement reform” was a central plank in his agenda, offering up these sacrificial lambs marinated in talk of “bitter pills” and “reasonable” spending cuts. Not only did Obama appoint Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles to head his deficit commission, knowing they were deficit hawks of the highest order, but Peterson’s Fix the Debt gang grandly supported Simpson-Bowles precisely because it advocated the dramatic spending cuts both parties favor"

"Sequestration itself was hatched in the White House, a trigger mechanism that creates the illusion that Congress is at the mercy of a higher law and, of course, conservative hordes brandishing wildly underlined copies of Atlas Shrugged." - Jason HIrthler

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/06/the-dawn-of-austerity-in-america/

The party of FDR is dead. The stench of its rotting corpse gives it away. At some point, someone should bury it and begin anew.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
How has he cut the deficit in half while increasing the debt $6 trillion with trillion plus deficits? What kind of fuzzy moonbat math is that?
All you have to do is go to the CBO report.
If the current laws that govern federal taxes and spending do not change, the budget deficit will shrink this year to $845 billion, or 5.3 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), its smallest size since 2008.
The budget he was left with was $1.4 trillion.

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Art
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

The deficit he inherited has been cut in half...

Really? Where are those numbers from? From table 1.3 in the US Historical Budget Tables the deficit in FY09 was

-1,412,688

In FY12 it's estimated at

-1,326,948

Perhaps "inherited" is an inaccurate word since Bush's FY09 extended into Obama's first term... and so there was his TARP spending. So where did you get those numbers?

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

The dems might be in control for years to come it is hard to get people to bite the hand that feeds them. As this government of handouts grows so do the number of people that are dependent on the government hand outs. Just like the occupy movement this country and government is being taken over by tbd free stuff crowd.

firearm owner
Joined:
Jan. 18, 2013 9:52 am
Quote norske:
Quote loganonenation:

No. He's a middle of the road centrist trying to do the best he can for the American People.

Whatever helps get you through the day....

In the real world, Obama has continued with and in many cases expanded upon the neo-liberal policies of his predecessors and is on track to surpass Reagan, Bush, Clinton and even Bush/Cheney in doing harm to the people of the US and the rest of the world... As Glen Ford explained, "Obama is the more effective evil"...( http://blackagendareport.com/content/why-barack-obama-more-effective-evil) as he gives the imprimatur of governing from the "left". Seriously, no GOP president would have been able to get away with the evils committed by the Nobel Peace Laureate Democratic President...

Perhaps when the U.S. obtains the same results of Greece, people will get that the budget debate is a scam having nothing to do with real economic functioning. 'Tis merely another way to distribute existing national wealth upwards just as it's doing in Greece.

The U.S. generates $160,000 per year for each family of four. Cutting government spending on the poorist merely shifts the wealth upwards and reduces presssure to tax the wealthy. The national pie, $160,000 per every family of four, doesn't evaporate....it shifts.

Americans are politically and economically naive.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote polycarp2:
Quote norske:
Quote loganonenation:

No. He's a middle of the road centrist trying to do the best he can for the American People.

Whatever helps get you through the day....

In the real world, Obama has continued with and in many cases expanded upon the neo-liberal policies of his predecessors and is on track to surpass Reagan, Bush, Clinton and even Bush/Cheney in doing harm to the people of the US and the rest of the world... As Glen Ford explained, "Obama is the more effective evil"...( http://blackagendareport.com/content/why-barack-obama-more-effective-evil) as he gives the imprimatur of governing from the "left". Seriously, no GOP president would have been able to get away with the evils committed by the Nobel Peace Laureate Democratic President...

Perhaps when the U.S. obtains the same results of Greece, people will get that the budget debate is a scam having nothing to do with real economic functioning. 'Tis merely another way to distribute existing national wealth upwards just as it's doing in Greece.

The U.S. generates $160,000 per year for each family of four. Cutting government spending on the poorist merely shifts the wealth upwards and reduces presssure to tax the wealthy. The national pie, $160,000 per every family of four, doesn't evaporate....it shifts.

Americans are politically and economically naive.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

The national GDP averages out to 160,000 per family of four that is true but not everyone earns that much but they still have kids they can not afford. I keep hearing people say that the country earns 160,000 per family of four but when I suggest the minimum wage be 40,000 a year and tied to the number of kids you have so when you get married to goes up to 80 and your first kid it goes to 120 and so on that way we could have people straight out of high school working at burger king making. 200 a year. You would not mind paying a 100 dollars fog a cheese burger right?

The GDP is national productivity not per person productivity.

firearm owner
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Jan. 18, 2013 9:52 am

I love how fools on the right don't get this. Obama has 75% of the country behind him. He's a moderate right winger (now virtually extinct from the GOP). The beltway class loves him -- David Gregory Loves Him. He wants to cut safety nets and he's a Hawk. Liberals think he's pretty much a traitor to them but they will take him over ANY GOP guy. Anyone who opposes him looks like a left or a extreme right loony to the average voter. He's insulated in that way. It's the GOP that is going crazy trying to oppose him no matter what, desperately trying to attract his dwindling set of haters. The GOP now embraces the sequester siding with Ron Paul's rationale of all people on those Military Cuts. They are officially a fringe party now. Of course their game plan is to stall the recovery and blame Obama. But Obama's getting the Corporations AND a supermajority of the populace on his and the Democratic team's side. Obama's Legacy = Democratic Majorities for Years To Come especially now that the corps are making record profits. Where does this leave the GOP? Can they really claim they could be MORE CENTRIST and BETTER FOR BUSINESS than this guy? LOL.

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loganonenation
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

logan, ". Obama has 75% of the country behind him."

Not according to Gallup Dailey:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

Not according to Rasmussen:

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows that 51% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Obama's job performance. Forty-eight percent (48%) disapprove (see trends).

Results are updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern (sign up for free daily e-mail update).

Just 28% now believe the country is heading in the right direction. That’s down six points from a week ago and 15 points from just after Election Day. It is up one point from when Barack Obama took office in 2009.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Not according to Real Clear Politics:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Maybe in your heavily bureaucratic and lawyer laden beltway with the highest per capita income in the US. $86,000! LOL

He was elected by 2% only with the help of his lapdog media.

How do corporate profits conote political popularity? The political and financial classes are prospering as the rest of the classes are struggling.

darlinedarline1@aol.com's picture
darlinedarline1...
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Aug. 29, 2012 9:27 am
Quote loganonenation:

Funny how those states also spent any savings they got from firing public workers to pay for tax cuts for the super rich. <snip>

Please list a state or two that did that. Not that you would just make stuff up, but I can't seem to find a single example.

Paleo-con
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Well, Darline, I often see you posting problems and denunciations...and never viable solutions to reform political/economic structures that give birth to them.. Why is that?

I realize that neither liberals or conservatives are really open to any meaningful structural change that would attack the problems at their core...constitutionally, the monetary system, or economic social/ policy. I bang my head against their brick walls all the time.

Still, all of those things need addressing. They are all part and parcel of the same problems. Solving one area solves nothing.

Sometimes an attempt should be made to post something other complaints and denunciations even if you know the effort will be futile.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote loganonenation:

I love how fools on the right don't get this. Obama has 75% of the country behind him. He's a moderate right winger (now virtually extinct from the GOP). <snip>

Okay, I retract my last statement. It is obvious beyond all reasonable doubt that you are just making stuff up.

Paleo-con
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Sorry but I doubt people are glad they lost their $50,000 to 70,000 a year job to be able to get unemployment at 300 a week and perhaps food stamps for another 100 per month.....

In fact the average American is Fine with paying a higher tax rate than the wealthy pay right now - and they wouldn't whine constantly like the wealthy do about how hard their taxes are to pay -

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Scappoose
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Mar. 30, 2012 7:49 am

Paleo-con, you are right. It took me about 30 seconds to find all those polls disputing logan's false claim.

Polycarp, my post #20 was to point out that logan's claims of oliar's popularity and "legacy" is false bullshit. oliar is deliberately making sure that HIS sequestration is going to inflict as much pain on average citizens as possible, when the whole totality of the sequestration cuts in spending is a joke. You know I am not a repulsive, either. I agree with you that dems and repubs are merely 2 arms of the corporate party.

I do not buy into the false dog and pony show of either party.

As to solutions, drastically cutting government spending, especially in the area of military and defense, is one thing I have espoused all along. You should know that. Getting corporations out of government and abolishing their personhood status, public financing of elections, making lobbying illegal, stop the merry-go-round of corporate/bureaucrat/corporate.

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darlinedarline1...
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Aug. 29, 2012 9:27 am
Quote firearm owner:The dems might be in control for years to come it is hard to get people to bite the hand that feeds them. As this government of handouts grows so do the number of people that are dependent on the government hand outs. Just like the occupy movement this country and government is being taken over by tbd free stuff crowd.
As I already demonstrated FO, you can protest but YOU are a member of the Free Lunch Right that has has grown up and enjoyed the biggest free lunch in history: the theft of nearly 16 trillion since 1981 from future generations. Hell, I can say I supported YOU in the Marines when we didn't need such a large military. Yet all you do is whine here that your taxes are too high even if all our taxes combined only cover about 56% of government. Instead of confronting this moral problem, all you do is demand more tax cuts while insisting the working poor be driven down further into poverty to subsidize your low prices.

Cry me a river you hypocritical whiner.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Quote Paleo-con:
Quote loganonenation:

Funny how those states also spent any savings they got from firing public workers to pay for tax cuts for the super rich. <snip>

Please list a state or two that did that. Not that you would just make stuff up, but I can't seem to find a single example.

Didn't this happen in Scott Walker's WI... where he cut spending then offered a massive tax cut for the rich?

Perhaps I dreamt it.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

" I agree with you that dems and repubs are merely 2 arms of the corporate party."

Dead on, I'm afraid. The moneyed elite own and run the country. It's really time for a 3rd party. However they'd have to go door to door to get any exposure since the MSM is corporatized. Rocky Anderson got on TV once. I'm one of about 3 people who saw him.

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Combad57
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May. 29, 2012 12:50 pm
Quote Pierpont:
Quote firearm owner:The dems might be in control for years to come it is hard to get people to bite the hand that feeds them. As this government of handouts grows so do the number of people that are dependent on the government hand outs. Just like the occupy movement this country and government is being taken over by tbd free stuff crowd.
As I already demonstrated FO, you can protest but YOU are a member of the Free Lunch Right that has has grown up and enjoyed the biggest free lunch in history: the theft of nearly 16 trillion since 1981 from future generations. Hell, I can say I supported YOU in the Marines when we didn't need such a large military. Yet all you do is whine here that your taxes are too high even if all our taxes combined only cover about 56% of government. Instead of confronting this moral problem, all you do is demand more tax cuts while insisting the working poor be driven down further into poverty to subsidize your low prices.

Cry me a river you hypocritical whiner.

I put up a balanced approach, I cut the federal government down to a small yet controllable size art the same ti.e I proposed a fair tax policy that makes everyone pay their fair share. Also you have benefited from the same 16 trillion dollars probably more so being on the public handout side of things like you are.

firearm owner
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Jan. 18, 2013 9:52 am
Quote firearm owner:I put up a balanced approach, I cut the federal government down to a small yet controllable size art the same ti.e I proposed a fair tax policy that makes everyone pay their fair share. Also you have benefited from the same 16 trillion dollars probably more so being on the public handout side of things like you are.
How can you put forth any sort of budget plan when you don't know the difference between a million, a billion, and a trillion? LOL

I'll dig out your "plan" if you want. All I remember is it was amusing.

As for your other accusation... feel free to go down the same path as mjolnir who made an ass of himself with baseless accusations of things he had no knowledge of. But then no one expects much in the way of rationality from you either.

But finally some honesty from you that you admit you were on the dole while in the military?

Progress is being made.

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Pierpont
Joined:
Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Quote Pierpont:
Quote firearm owner:I put up a balanced approach, I cut the federal government down to a small yet controllable size art the same ti.e I proposed a fair tax policy that makes everyone pay their fair share. Also you have benefited from the same 16 trillion dollars probably more so being on the public handout side of things like you are.
How can you put forth any sort of budget plan when you don't know the difference between a million, a billion, and a trillion? LOL

I'll dig out your "plan" if you want. All I remember is it was amusing.

As for your other accusation... feel free to go down the same path as mjolnir who made an ass of himself with baseless accusations of things he had no knowledge of. But then no one expects much in the way of rationality from you either.

But finally some honesty from you that you admit you were on the dole while in the military?

Progress is being made.

While in the military you are not on the doll, you are paid for your work which you pay federal and state taxes. On the doll is when like you, you sit at home and have the government give you all you need to live for no work no taxes paid nothing on your part to earn it.

A billion is 1000 million, a trillion is 1000 billion. I understand the difference.

Go ahead dig it up, my plan in a nut shell is to get everyone to pay their fair share. Everyone will pay 15 to 20 percent flat rate no write offs. If you are below the poverty line you will have to pay 5 dollars.

All federal agencies that have state counter parts will be cut by 95 to 100 percent. All welfare subsidies will be eliminated. All foreign aid will be eleminated all payments to the IMF and world bank will stop unless it is for goods.

This will save us trillions of dollars a year. The saving will be used to pay off debt once it is paid off taxes can be lowered to fit the new budget requirements

firearm owner
Joined:
Jan. 18, 2013 9:52 am

The bottom line is the leadership and most of the GOP as currently configured has gone over to the Ron/Rand Paul fringe. They have also embraced extreme right wing social positions as well. Add to that the Ryan-Bain-Capital-style economic agenda and you have the makings of a hopelessly doomed party. The blatant racism for Obama and his supporters (who actually want the "entitlement" of the right to vote -- how dare they!) now on display only nails the coffin in further for these people.

On the other side, guess what we have in Obama 2013? We have Reagan. The real Reagan. Yeah I'm talking about Obama. Who is currently pushing policies that are far closer to something the Real Reagan would agree with. Reagan was no tea partier -- he was no Ron Paul. Ok Obama is better than Reagan for progressive causes, I suppose. But that's how he's gonna "work it" from here on out. He's gonna appeal to the beltway center-right. Folks like David Gregory, Tom Brokaw, Ed Rendell, Simpson, etc. All these guys are committed to the "Balanced approach" and they clearly see the Ryan Plan and Rand Paul as fringe.

I know liberals hate this centristy crap, and for good reason. It's bad policy. But it SEEMS reasonable to the masses, that's all that matters. The good news for liberals and the country is: THE BALANCE APPROACH WILL NEVER PASS UNDER OBAMA. It won't pass now because gerrymandered teaparty republicans are committed to opposing anything Obama proposes because he, Obama, proposed it. It won't pass when Democrats increase their majorities after successive elections, because the liberal voice will be much stronger and the plan won't include entitlement cuts.

So I ask that liberals just calm down and let this bluff of the "balanced approach" by Obama play out --(unless it really looks like it's gonna pass -- then make all the noise you want) But I promise you, it won't be accepted by the GOP as currently configured. Obama has all but guaranteed this by calling it "MY PLAN" and he knows this full well. But what it will do is make the GOP a permament minority party for YEARS TO COME -- their refusal to work with a plan dubbed by the beltway as "EMINENTLY REASONABLE AND BALANCED" will look like lunacy to all but a lunatic fringe. Are you starting to see the poker game Obama is playing here yet? I do.

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loganonenation
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Being on the dole is to be dependent on the govt. Being on the doll is something entirely different.

Go ahead dig it up, my plan in a nut shell is to get everyone to pay their fair share. Everyone will pay 15 to 20 percent flat rate no write offs. If you are below the poverty line you will have to pay 5 dollars.

All federal agencies that have state counter parts will be cut by 95 to 100 percent. All welfare subsidies will be eliminated. All foreign aid will be eleminated all payments to the IMF and world bank will stop unless it is for goods.

This will save us trillions of dollars a year. The saving will be used to pay off debt once it is paid off taxes can be lowered to fit the new budget requirements

Flat tax rate, so raising taxes on 75% of Americans.

No welfare. How will that save anything? This'll push up crime significantly, and more people starving. The money for people to live will be spent, on one accounting line or another. We can spend it as welfare or as property theft insurance losses, or as justice system costs.

Plus all welfare and foreign aid only account for less than 5% of the budget. Unless you go after SS and M/M too.

But great plan for ending America. Maybe after the violent revolution we can this time execute all the Hobbesians.

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Phaedrus76
Joined:
Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm
Flat tax rate, so raising taxes on 75% of Americans.

No welfare. How will that save anything? This'll push up crime significantly, and more people starving. The money for people to live will be spent, on one accounting line or another. We can spend it as welfare or as property theft insurance losses, or as justice system costs.

Plus all welfare and foreign aid only account for less than 5% of the budget. Unless you go after SS and M/M too.

But great plan for ending America. Maybe after the violent revolution we can this time execute all the Hobbesians.

No need for a revolution. A revolution of the mind is already taking hold. The Hobbesians are slowly dying off on their own accord. We just have to be patient. And, above all, do not let them anger you. They are in their last throes, to borrow a phrase.

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loganonenation
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Pierpont:
Quote Paleo-con:
Quote loganonenation:

Funny how those states also spent any savings they got from firing public workers to pay for tax cuts for the super rich. <snip>

Please list a state or two that did that. Not that you would just make stuff up, but I can't seem to find a single example.

Didn't this happen in Scott Walker's WI... where he cut spending then offered a massive tax cut for the rich?

Perhaps I dreamt it.

Yeah perhaps I dreamt it too. But Im positive it was EVER SINGLE GOP Governor. I defy you to find a GOP Gov that DIDN'T do this.

loganonenation's picture
loganonenation
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Pierpont:
Quote Paleo-con:

Please list a state or two that did that. Not that you would just make stuff up, but I can't seem to find a single example.

Didn't this happen in Scott Walker's WI... where he cut spending then offered a massive tax cut for the rich?

Perhaps I dreamt it.

I can't vouch for what people dream, but this certainly didn't happen in reality.

Paleo-con
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Quote Paleo-con:
Quote loganonenation:

I love how fools on the right don't get this. Obama has 75% of the country behind him. He's a moderate right winger (now virtually extinct from the GOP). <snip>

Okay, I retract my last statement. It is obvious beyond all reasonable doubt that you are just making stuff up.

I wouldn’t rule loganonenation’s claim out totally. Pew Research recently found that the country is 76% behind a “balanced approach” for the deficit vs. 19% behind for “only spending cuts.” Who’s pushing a balanced approach. Who’s pushing only spending cuts.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/02/21/if-no-deal-is-struck-four-in-ten-say-let-the-sequester-happen/

Quote Paleo-con:
Quote loganonenation:

Funny how those states also spent any savings they got from firing public workers to pay for tax cuts for the super rich. <snip>

Please list a state or two that did that. Not that you would just make stuff up, but I can't seem to find a single example.

Well, in these times when struggling states need every penny to pay for public services, there have been several states that have cut tax rates for businesses. At the same time, these states have laid off thousands of state workers, counting teachers. Considering that during the tax increase debate, conservatives argued the “rich” aren’t rich individuals but small business owners taking their income directly from their businesses, don’t tax cuts for small business really mean tax cuts for the rich? So – these states have given tax cuts for the “rich,” er, I mean, business, while laying off state workers……..Again, I wouldn’t totally dismiss loganonenation’s assertion:

From The Nation, I’ll grant you, a liberal source:

“Of the eleven states in which Republicans came into power in 2010 – Alabama, Indiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – five were among the seven states that lost more than 2.5 percent of their workforce from December 2010 to December 2011. The remaining 42 states lost an average 0.5 percent.”

‘Governor Corbett [PA Governor] came into office with a promise not to raise taxes, but went even farther by lowering corporate tax rates and imposing a low effective tax rate on drilling in the Marcellus Shale.”

“As the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has found, many of these newly GOP-dominated states, including North Carolina, cut corporate taxes, or cut taxes on high-income earners, including Maine and Ohio. Wisconsin did both.”

http://www.thenation.com/article/167050/red-states-see-massive-public-sector-job-losses#

So, public sector layoffs, are funding tax cuts for the “rich,” er, business, in some states. But then again, they aren’t the “rich,” they’re “job creators,” stupid! [Slapping my forehead]

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al3
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote loganonenation:
Quote Pierpont:
Quote Paleo-con:

Please list a state or two that did that. Not that you would just make stuff up, but I can't seem to find a single example.

Didn't this happen in Scott Walker's WI... where he cut spending then offered a massive tax cut for the rich?

Perhaps I dreamt it.

Yeah perhaps I dreamt it too. But Im positive it was EVER SINGLE GOP Governor. I defy you to find a GOP Gov that DIDN'T do this.

That is easy, none of the GOP Governors did it; not even Scott Walker. You made a bogus claim, and after failing to support it, you make a sad attempt at projection. The first thing to do when digging oneself deeper into a hole is to put the shovel down. Speaking of which, we are still waiting for the support of that 75% claim.

Paleo-con
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Oliar has chosen to cut where it hurts most. He hasn't chosen to cut the Transportation Security Administration's $50 million uniform makeover. He hasn't chosen to cut grants to develop robotic squirrels for use in research. Instead he's released criminal illegals and cut WH tours. The sequestration cuts Obama has and will implement will hit the poor especially hard. These are the deeds of a man committed to making the American people pay for the sin of fiscal responsibility and hopes it gets him political mileage.

But will Americans buy it? Ospender has the lapdog MSM on his side, a compliant media dedicated to painting him as a wronged leader desperately trying to save American jobs in the face of reckless, heartless repub cuts. But oliar invented the sequester. Increasingly, Americans are realizing that the president they re-elected is more than incompetent. He is ideologically driven to do harm to them, even when he could avoid doing so. THAT will be his legacy!

darlinedarline1@aol.com's picture
darlinedarline1...
Joined:
Aug. 29, 2012 9:27 am
Quote darlinedarline1@aol.com:

Increasingly, Americans are realizing that the president they re-elected is more than incompetent.

Obama isn't icompetent... he's doing exactly what is expected and required. Just like those who came before him...

Quote darlinedarline1:He is ideologically driven to do harm to them, even when he could avoid doing so. THAT will be his legacy!

I would submit that Obama's only ideology is serving the corporate elite... a function he has performed admirably... His legacy will reflect that he continued with the same devastating neo-liberal policies of his predecessors and that he was able to get the Democratic base on board with torture, droning, mass murder, war crimes and crimes against humanity which they would have protested if committed by a GOP president... If Republicans actually paid attention they would be happy as a pig in slop... and if Democrats actually paid attention and had a conscience they'd be at the White House protesting at the top of their lungs each and every day...

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norske
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

No doubt, norske. oblamer is a corporate puppet. I said nothing of his antics that even remotely relate to corporations with respect to his sequester. It is the average and poor American that he is trying to fool with the nonexistant cuts. It is nothing but petty politics. A dog and pony show for the little people, if you will. Proves that he is not the advocate for the little people, just another corporate shill.

And moonbats are the fools buying into the devastating effects of his sequester. yankeelander was complaining about the 19 million meals on wheels that weren't going to needy seniors and their disappointment. Meals on Wheels is strictly voluntary, they get NO government funds. See how phony and arbitrary this is getting.

darlinedarline1@aol.com's picture
darlinedarline1...
Joined:
Aug. 29, 2012 9:27 am

Well, darline, it takes two to tango. The Dems can't hold the dance all by themselves. It's a joint effort.

Neo-liberal Dems dance with their neo-liberal Repugnants. They wear different costumes so you can tell them apart.

You seem to be pretty vocal about Obama's shortcomings, while hiding his dancing partners behind your skirt.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

What do you mean "hiding his dancing partners behind your skirt"? I do not give the "neo-liberal repugnants" a pass. They are setting on their hands while oblamer is spreading the lies about the devastating affects of his sequestration and doing everything possible to make it painful for the average and poor citizens. When the truth is there are actually NO cuts. The tangoing two are both addicted to spending.

I do not believe I have tried to keep it a secret that I have nothing but disdain and contempt for oliar. He is an arrogant narcissist.

darlinedarline1@aol.com's picture
darlinedarline1...
Joined:
Aug. 29, 2012 9:27 am

Actually, darline, for sound economic functioning of the economy, there shouldn't be any cuts. There should be vastly increased expenditures at this point in time. Cuts are neo-liberal ideas. Not spending way more are neo-liberal ideas. Guess where that places you.

Cuts will be just enough to eliminate safety nets for the poor and the lower tiers of the middle class without effecting the upper tiers of society. The effect will be to put a pressure on wages...downwards. Most of the middle class will feel the effects of that. Neo-liberalism at its finest.

As explained over and over, under current economic conditions increased spending can be done without borrowing as per the U.S. Constitution and modern monetary theory...and without inflation.

The last Pres. to use the Constitutional authority to create/spend money without borrowing was Abe Lincoln. Of course, Lincoln wasn't a neo-liberal twit determined to put every last penney into the pockets of a few.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease".

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote polycarp2:

Actually, darline, for sound economic functioning of the economy, there shouldn't be any cuts. There should be vastly increased expenditures at this point in time. Cuts are neo-liberal ideas. Not spending way more are neo-liberal ideas. Guess where that places you.

Cuts will be just enough to eliminate safety nets for the poor and the lower tiers of the middle class without effecting the upper tiers of society. The effect will be to put a pressure on wages...downwards. Most of the middle class will feel the effects of that. Neo-liberalism at its finest.

As explained over and over, under current economic conditions increased spending can be done without borrowing as per the U.S. Constitution and modern monetary theory...and without inflation.

The last Pres. to use the Constitutional authority to create/spend money without borrowing was Abe Lincoln. Of course, Lincoln wasn't a neo-liberal twit determined to put every last penney into the pockets of a few.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease".

Any increase in the money supply will have an inflationary effect. If you print it like Abe dud orcongure it up out of thin air by crediting an account you have increased the money supply which decreases the value of the dollar.

firearm owner
Joined:
Jan. 18, 2013 9:52 am

Reading Obama critiques from the right never ceases to amaze or amuse me...

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norske
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote firearm owner:
Quote polycarp2:

Actually, darline, for sound economic functioning of the economy, there shouldn't be any cuts. There should be vastly increased expenditures at this point in time. Cuts are neo-liberal ideas. Not spending way more are neo-liberal ideas. Guess where that places you.

Cuts will be just enough to eliminate safety nets for the poor and the lower tiers of the middle class without effecting the upper tiers of society. The effect will be to put a pressure on wages...downwards. Most of the middle class will feel the effects of that. Neo-liberalism at its finest.

As explained over and over, under current economic conditions increased spending can be done without borrowing as per the U.S. Constitution and modern monetary theory...and without inflation.

The last Pres. to use the Constitutional authority to create/spend money without borrowing was Abe Lincoln. Of course, Lincoln wasn't a neo-liberal twit determined to put every last penney into the pockets of a few.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease".

Any increase in the money supply will have an inflationary effect. If you print it like Abe dud orcongure it up out of thin air by crediting an account you have increased the money supply which decreases the value of the dollar.

Then why did that not happen when the Fed printed close to a trillion to bail out the banks? Kind of disproves your simplistic notion, no?

loganonenation's picture
loganonenation
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote darlinedarline1@aol.com:

What do you mean "hiding his dancing partners behind your skirt"? I do not give the "neo-liberal repugnants" a pass. They are setting on their hands while oblamer is spreading the lies about the devastating affects of his sequestration and doing everything possible to make it painful for the average and poor citizens. When the truth is there are actually NO cuts. The tangoing two are both addicted to spending.

I do not believe I have tried to keep it a secret that I have nothing but disdain and contempt for oliar. He is an arrogant narcissist.

Darline, listen to yourself.

And those who really hate Obama should listen to yourselves. You sound SO PETTY. SO DUMB, really. You can't even refer to our President without calling him dumb names or accusing him of the most outlandish crap. It is just this kind of juvenile behavior and baseless hate from a large portion of the GOP, which includes the leadership, that is marginalizing the party. In the absence of true reasons to despise this President -- who hasn't spent any more than any other President faced with a massive economic downturn (probably A LOT LESS, to his discredit) -- so many on your side just want to label him a socialist or a Muslim or whatever. It's sad to behold. And it's clear you do this because you have really nothing factual to say to disparage Obama, at least from right wing point of view. He's deported tons of so-called illegals, sealed the borders. He's been a competent moderate Republican President for all practical purposes, much to the dismay of real left liberals -- REAL SOCIALISTS!!. If he had done EXACTLY the same thing and it was McCain or Romney who had won in 2008 he would be being praised by your side RIGHT NOW for improving the economy while still keeping taxes low. Our side would be complaining about a jobless recovery. This ALL GETTING SO OLD, really.

loganonenation's picture
loganonenation
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Pierpont:
Quote douglaslee:

The deficit he inherited has been cut in half...

Really? Where are those numbers from? From table 1.3 in the US Historical Budget Tables the deficit in FY09 was

-1,412,688

In FY12 it's estimated at

-1,326,948

Perhaps "inherited" is an inaccurate word since Bush's FY09 extended into Obama's first term... and so there was his TARP spending. So where did you get those numbers?

I was wrong, the deficit in 2009 was 10% of gdp and it's now 4% of gdp. I should have said he cut it 60% instead of by half, my bad..

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Combad57:

" I agree with you that dems and repubs are merely 2 arms of the corporate party."

Dead on, I'm afraid. The moneyed elite own and run the country. It's really time for a 3rd party. However they'd have to go door to door to get any exposure since the MSM is corporatized. Rocky Anderson got on TV once. I'm one of about 3 people who saw him.

I saw him and liked him, who was the other one that saw him?

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

btw, spending 4% more than you're bringing in means you increase your prices. Revenue at 15% of gdp is 25% lower than the 20% gdp that Clinton had when jobs were growing

The Texonomic paradox: A Texan was buying sod for $500 a ton loading his ton and a half pick up truck. $750 dollars was the price his supplier charged him for a full truck load. He sold the sod for $600 dollars because that was a 20% markup over the $500 dollars. He found he was losing money, he was paying out 750 and only getting 600 so he asked around. "Well, any Texan can see your problem, you need a bigger truck".

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Currently Chatting

Why the Web of Life is Dying...

Could you survive with just half of your organs? Think about it. What if you had just half your brain, one kidney, half of your heart, one lung, half a liver and only half of your skin? It would be pretty hard to survive right? Sure, you could survive losing just one kidney or half of your liver, but at some point, losing pieces from all of your organs would be too much and you would die.

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