13th grade

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Robert Reich pitches a 5 year high school norm in Parade Magazine this weekend. I think he's right. Many jobs with vacancies do not require a 100K university degree. And the degrees from the for-profit degree mills are not even fit to wipe your ass with [too stiff and chemical processing agents]. When I went to highschool we had two paths. One was college prep CP, the other was CE, which was community education or civic education, I don't remember. Anyhow there are choices other than a 100 thousand dollar degree that gets your picture taken with a cardboard cutout of Trump.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

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My own preference is the German system.

A college track or a trade track. When the trade option is taken, upon graduating High School the skills to practice the trade graduate with you. You're trained in it and have already gone through an appenticeship program.

Then we have the U.S. system that doesn't train anyone for anything except how to cram for irrelevant tests and take out a loan to learn something of value in the real world..

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

My daughters are offering me a lesson in educational pursuits and opportunities. My eldest will be seeking a career path soon. [she turned 17 so her primary concern now is her driving test for her 18th birthday]. 'Tis a strange place to be, rethinking decisions that applied to me. In a time long past, that was lost very fast. I trust her choices, but we will see.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

My daughters are offering me a lesson in educational pursuits and opportunities. My eldest will be seeking a career path soon. [she turned 17 so her primary concern now is her driving test for her 18th birthday]. 'Tis a strange place to be, rethinking decisions that applied to me. In a time long past, that was lost very fast. I trust her choices, but we will see.

Why is she just now waiting to drive?

My daughter is 5. She is already in trouble because she is bored and disrupts the class so they have to give her extra work to keep her busy. I'm afraid of so many things. I'm afraid of america, but not what I hope she makes of it. Does it get better?

drbjmn
Joined:
Jul. 22, 2013 5:52 am

I have two daughters and they are my life's finest accomplishment. In Europe you can't drive until you're 18. Too many 16 & 17 year olds were driving like 16 and 17 year olds and killing themselves and others. You can drink when you're 18.

Does your daughter ride a bike yet? We had a trampoline with a safety net surrounding it instead of spotters. Soccer was and is a major part of their curricular activities. My oldest got accepted to the soccer academy, my youngest gets picked for the boy's team as a ringer. She also got picked to represent her school in the swim meet, then the ping pong tournament, then the soccer competition. She likes tennis, too. Trying to discourage golf, too expensive.

Ages_of_consent_in_Europe were an adjustment for me. All my wife's friends quit going topless at the beach in front of me because I was an American, damn it!

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

I have two daughters and they are my life's finest accomplishment. In Europe you can't drive until you're 18. Too many 16 & 17 year olds were driving like 16 and 17 year olds and killing themselves and others. You can drink when you're 18.

Does your daughter ride a bike yet? We had a trampoline with a safety net surrounding it instead of spotters. Soccer was and is a major part of their curricular activities. My oldest got accepted to the soccer academy, my youngest gets picked for the boy's team as a ringer. She also got picked to represent her school in the swim meet, then the ping pong tournament, then the soccer competition. She likes tennis, too. Trying to discourage golf, too expensive.

Ages_of_consent_in_Europe were an adjustment for me. All my wife's friends quit going topless at the beach in front of me because I was an American, damn it!

Yes, she rides her bike. With training wheels. I didn't say she was every bit the same as her daddy!:)I would prefer it if you didn't send me links where the main thing I will pick up on is a word like "unfettered"! I suppose given our "post" history I had that coming....dillhole:) Now I understand more why you didn't understand that term.Given the fact that I get lazier by the day, and my wife is one of the least coordinated people I've ever met, I think it's a safe bet that intellect is the best chance my daughter has for being above average. Wait, are we becomming friends, or are you gonna insult me again..

drbjmn
Joined:
Jul. 22, 2013 5:52 am

No, never. If you want to wean her off the training wheels, a broomstick handle with a bent headless nail [acting as a hook] inserted in the bicycle fork under the seat connecting the rear wheel to the frame allows you to jog alongside with a handle on her balance. You can also staple a flourescent flag to the handle for extra visability for any cars in the neighborhood.

As you run alongside you can release your grip a little, then a lot. If your hand is within 6 inches you can retrieve your grip to stabilize if you get nervous. She won't even know you're not holding her anymore. Then get some ice cream.

Take the broom head off the handle.

.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

No, never. If you want to wean her off the training wheels, a broomstick handle with a bent headless nail inserted in the bicycle fork under the seat connecting the rear wheel to the frame allows you to jog alongside with a handle on her balance. You can also staple a flourescent flag to the handle for extra visability for any cars in the neighborhood.

That would certainly help my back(and stamina), but, and this might seem harsh, because even though I think certain things should be a certain way, I would never in a million years actually do it,I sometmes want her to fall so she can learn to deal with it. But that's never gonna happen.because I won't allow it! Things I thought would make sense before a certain point, go out the window. I always thought I would be different as far as teaching MY kid. And she's a pretty darn respectful, good kid, despite my lack of being the way I "thought" I should be..

drbjmn
Joined:
Jul. 22, 2013 5:52 am

You'll learn from your kids...and do better with your grandkids. That just seems to be the way it works.

My grand nephew didn't plow into a tree riding a sled. I did. He learned from that to the amusement of the neighbors. He began paying attention to the course the sled would take. I learned that at my age it's best to stay off sleds.

I suppose he learned another lesson when I fell off of his skateboard....."how not to skin your knees". Don't imitate him with stupid stunts until you learn how to ride the thing.

When I talked with him, he'd listen...he'd discuss things. When his parents did, he'd tune them out. He didn't see me as having a parental "axe to grind".

When I reached the age where my parents didn't know anything worth knowing....my non-parents knew everything. Grandma and grandpa filled in the gap along with a greatly beloved aunt. Looking back, it was the same stuff...different source.

Keep grandma/grandpa close by or find a surrogate. Some kids do just fine without them. Others find their own, like the parents of a friend.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Another thing I forgot to add on are their extralong shoe strings girls wear, even double and triple tie knots leave loose ends that tangle in the chain and the sprocket sometimes twisting an angle, tearing a a cartiledge. Velcrose is safe until you perfect the first tie then cross the ankle for a second double tie in the front-. Loosen the front wheel brake if it has a reverse pedal brake, too many get thrown over the handel bars from a front brake applied alone.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Drbjn, I was trying to compile some other safety risks that only dads see. A friend saw the normal faucet knob at has house, and kids turn knobs the way they see adults, he removed it, it was the knob on the bottom of a hot water heater.

I told him I have a 8 inch guard U shaped bracket 15" x 30" by 15" connected by screws to the stove top. [All euro stoves offer a protective bracket keepin pot handles and spoons laded with scalding molten laved easually landing on curious kids. The bracket detaches after the kids are old eough. My cup scout mate had a skin graft the whole length of his neck and torsou.

Kids tend to climb cupboards, cupboards when the dish washer is open. I load kives and forks tines downand blades down, one slip and and fall into the open dish/ could be puncture, then tetnis, then sutures, then infection, the amputation-

Look at door hihges, are there colosing mehcanisms too taught? Are their shoes the flipflop type that have no squeege ability at all and are really skim boards?

Can your double hang doors close with a smash? While a child's fingers are under them? I put hydraulic damper hinges on our doors that are high wind risk. Enery tille hole was target for my kid's fingers. Started dreaming swiss cheeze.

They also teach me. Because they are watching me when the toast is stuck in th toaster, I have to do it right lest they emulate me, so no fork is going into the life toaster, still plugged in and no glovess.

//

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

So, how does having these kids teach you so much have anything to do with how we are going to prepare them to figure out what their life's calling is going to be, and/or how many times they get to go back for a redo? We could even start now by employing them as research consultants on everything from the ground up as well as what works for them, and their parents and siblings. Education really is a two-way street, and even more, it is a vast network of routes and interesting stops.

The Social Role of Education is what gives us "grades" and reasons to unify curricula with logical progressions. Were it only about learning, the social culture of school would be less of a moving sidewalk or elevator. It would be less confined to age. It would be far more directed at individual interest and curiosity with no "basics" or "necessary skills" that are not discovered to be so from the individual starting point of the child. Shared interests would bring group learning and peer interaction a focus and make teaching more about sharing that interest and curiosity than having the answers.

I am not at all sure when we should trust a choice between academics and technical to blue collar skills to divide us. I would prefer more to do both than to become separated and estranged, much less fed into a class system of inequity. The important thing is to help young people grow up curious and confident about continuing to explore and learn in whatever purposeful and meaningful work they engage. I don't support "final choices" or being "stuck with" anything from debts to work you would walk away from. I want dreams to be realized, and after all, the dreams people have are modest, not about running the world. Fewer frustrated and denied and more living their dreams would improve the neighborhood.

Learning should be less job-driven and not be sold as the path to economic success. Keeping the joy of learning alive during school years is a big enough challenge for education. Giving it the joy to sustain a lifetime's wear and tear may be too much to design. Birds must fly. But I hope the world of education you find for your children continues to be rich in discovery and surprise. I hope they gain that self-confidence to explore rather than to be saved by adult answers. I hope you both figure out how to be on the same side in the stage of Counter-Dependence, zen masters of the teen age years.

When that mechanic falls in love with 17th Century French poetry, may his path to the academic side be wide and welcoming. When the poet feels the need to do real things with her hands, can she find the same opportunity? This is what I would want to guide educational thinking.

drc2
Joined:
Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm

Thank you for this I was wondering what kind of person Reich was. The educational system always spins this. They will point out people in Japan attend school year around but never tell you those in Japan with 10 years of school generally 16 year olds can attend college in the United States. You don't understand the politics behind this. There are those in the United States with money who want colege educations for their children so they can rule over those without college educations. Of course it is not necessary. In the 60' management averager 12.5 years of school skilled labor had 9 years of school. A lawyer attended 2 years of prelaw and 3 years of law school.

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currentresident
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote polycarp2:

You'll learn from your kids...and do better with your grandkids. That just seems to be the way it works.

My grand nephew didn't plow into a tree riding a sled. I did. He learned from that to the amusement of the neighbors. He began paying attention to the course the sled would take. I learned that at my age it's best to stay off sleds.

I suppose he learned another lesson when I fell off of his skateboard....."how not to skin your knees". Don't imitate him with stupid stunts until you learn how to ride the thing.

When I talked with him, he'd listen...he'd discuss things. When his parents did, he'd tune them out. He didn't see me as having a parental "axe to grind".

When I reached the age where my parents didn't know anything worth knowing....my non-parents knew everything. Grandma and grandpa filled in the gap along with a greatly beloved aunt. Looking back, it was the same stuff...different source.

Keep grandma/grandpa close by or find a surrogate. Some kids do just fine without them. Others find their own, like the parents of a friend.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

I found that to be true as well. My sisterrs are much older, so I had brother-in-laws that didn't talk down to me.

But unfortunaetly, I think some things are better to learn first hand. My daughter touched a hot oven door when she was 2 1/2. It scared us when all five fingers blistered up to twice their size. But the pain stopped quickly, and she was normal in a day or two. But she hasn't gone near anything hot since. Not that I would recommend doing it on purpose though!!

drbjmn
Joined:
Jul. 22, 2013 5:52 am

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