So our President, mainly, has wasted our money on programs and upcoming federal government programs (I wouldn’t doubt we really don’t need some of them) is asking our millionaires and billionaires to pay what our President and his members to pay for their mistakes. So how will we know once we reach zero in debt they (The President and members of Congress) wont do it again?

Comments

media_muse 2 years 27 weeks ago
#1

do you carry zero debt? Now there's an easy question to answer.

Hmm.....Katshores, apparently you enjoy incredible lapses from reality! Do you know any country - or county for that matter - that carries zero debt? Do you know any business that carries zero debt?

Is this an amusement park ride posing as a question? You take us from from zero debt to mistakes - HUH? What do you think about the Biggest Boldest Bodacious BS mistake lie made by dubya - the BIG OOOPS MISTAKE - WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ? ? ?

It must have been quite a zero party time for you when both of the Bushes pushed out OUR debt higher than several other presidents put together. I guess your lapse from reality prevents your awareness about all the revenue Bush dubyah gave to the pharmaceutical corporations - in order to rip off the American tax payers. So generous of dubyah to give his cronies $ $ $ with THIS AREA AND MANY OTHERS while expensing the debt off on to we hard working TAX PAYING people.

Katshores do you work? Or just post questions which obviously are burning you up? Or are you paid to post burning silly questions?

Based on total federal outlays reported by the White House, George W. Bush’s presidency had the largest spending with $19.1 trillion over 8 years.

Read more http://www.kgbanswers.com/which-us-president-has-spent-the-most-money-including-obama/7408024#ixzz1rkzQfbIS

media_muse 2 years 27 weeks ago
#2

hey Katshores some facts to go along with your mistakes & zer0's --------------

http://www.politicususa.com/cost-obama-christmas-vacation-bush/

Bush Spent 5 Times More On Flights To Texas Than Obama‘s Christmas Vacation Costs

"Those who criticize the cost of Obama’s Christmas vacation don’t want you to know that George W. Bush spent at least $20 million taxpayer dollars just on flights to his ranch in Crawford.

The right wing has been outraged at the four million dollar plus price tag for Obama’s family Christmas vacation, and they constantly hold George W. Bush up as an example of how thrifty a president should be when going on vacation.

The problem is that W. wasn’t thrifty. He was the most expensive vacation president in US history. Not only did Bush spend more days on vacation than any other president, but he used Air Force One more often while on vacation than any other president.

During Bush’s two terms, the cost of operating Air Force One ranged from $56,800 to $68,000 an hour. Bush used Air Force One 77 times to go to his ranch in Crawford, TX. Using the low end cost of $56,800, Media Matters calculated that each trip to Crawford cost taxpayers $259,687 each time, and $20 million total for Bush’s ranch flights.

If cost of the flight was the only expense involved to taxpayers Bush’s vacations would still seem rather economical, but there is more, much more. Unlike the Obama’s $4 million Christmas vacation price tag, which includes the cost of everything from transportation to accommodations for the First Family, the White House staff, and the White House press corps, Bush’s numbers only include the cost of flying the president to Crawford. The cost of transporting and accommodating staff, media, friends and family is not included in Bush’s vacation numbers.

In response to growing criticism that the president was on vacation too much, the Bush administration adopted the Rovian tactic of scheduling, “work events,” while the president was in Crawford so that they could claim that President Bush’s vacations were working vacations. During his infamous pre-9/11 August vacation, the AP reported that, “Using the ranch as a base, he will promote White House initiatives in Rocky Mountain National Park, Denver, Albuquerque, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and San Antonio.”

Bush’s “working vacations” cost taxpayers a small fortune in travel costs because President Bush and his staff would make day trips on Air Force One all across the country in order to counter the criticism that he was on vacation too often. For eight years, Bush essentially used Air Force One as his personal vacation taxi service.

What was also not counted in Bush’s Air Force One mileage total were the vacations where Bush flew to Crawford from Camp David such as the following via Media Matters:

In a December 27, 2001, Fort Lauderdale (Fla.) Sun-Sentinel article (accessed via Nexis), national correspondent Jeff Zeleny reported “[a]fter spending Christmas at the Camp David presidential retreat in Maryland, the president and first lady boarded Air Force One to travel to their ranch near the village of Crawford.”

And on December 26, 2007, The Associated Press reported that Bush took “Air Force One to fly from his Maryland mountaintop retreat to his Texas ranch here to see in the new year.”

FactCheck.org was writing about the anonymous chain emails about Obama’s travel costs and noted in July that the stories about Obama’s travel expenses are, “part of continuing pattern of false and misleading claims about the travels of the president and the first lady,” and that Obama used Air Force One less in his first two years in office than George W. Bush did.

That same pattern of false information about Obama’s travel costs relative to Bush’s is also rampant on right wing blogs, websites, and Fox News. The cost of Obama’s Christmas vacation is a good example of how right wing media can take a small fact like vacation costs or the number of Americans paying taxes in a single year and build an entire misinformation campaign around it.

The total cost of Obama’s Christmas vacation may be $4 million, but George W. Bush spent exponentially more taxpayers dollars, because he used Air Force One for political purposes in an attempt to distract the public from the amount of days that he was spending on vacation. In flights alone just for himself, George W. Bush spent five times more money flying just himself to Texas than Obama is spending on an entire Christmas vacation.

It is likely that the Bush administration spent hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on vacations, but the false outrage machine is on overdrive due to one Obama Christmas vacation.

By not including the cost of everything, the Obama bashers distorted the numbers to make it appear that Obama was lavishly spending taxpayer dollars on vacations, but a look inside the numbers reveals that nobody knows how to waste taxpayer dollars quite like the GOP.

Merry Christmas, Republicans. Here’s to another false Obama smear debunked. "

Katshores's picture
Katshores 2 years 27 weeks ago
#3

First if you had read my reply I didnt speak about Bush. I am simply asking. If our debt is zero would the congress and our President start up again and put us back in debt?

media_muse 2 years 27 weeks ago
#4

First, you can't begin talking about our current debt until you go back to Bush - Bush magnanimously gigantically increased our national debt. Just because one manages to leave out an important part of the equation does not demonstrate the question was asked correctly

Second, If you are sincere about your question then your integrity & sincerity would demand you begin with how debt is created.

Third,unless you can follow the dubyah Bush thread you'll see that your question is at best a rhetorical one or just silly.

Fourth, do YOU REALLY expect any congress or president - of any party - to get our national debt down to zero?

Fifth, are you serious?

If you are - let's see a serious sincere sensible solution - this is your chance to RESPOND on how you would end debt & get it to a zero balance - in your lifetime.

Katshores's picture
Katshores 2 years 27 weeks ago
#5

I fully agree with you that many Presidents and members of both parties caused the massive debt I know that. But if we did. DID as a possiblity do you think they would realize that what they did in the past would tell them they would do it again after the troubles it faced this country? or would they still do it? CASE in point. If we wrote bad checks we would be fine or even face the Judge and also the room that has only one lock thats in front (Prison) and the members of Congress just got a slap on the hand.

media_muse 2 years 27 weeks ago
#6
Quote Katshores:

I fully agree with you that many Presidents and members of both parties caused the massive debt I know that.

We are in complete agreement here about the financial chaos brought to us through both political parties, former presidents and members of congress.This however is a wild turn from the original post about how our current president has "wasted our money" and how "once we reach zero in debt they (The President and members of Congress) wont do it again?"

The Obama administration did not begin office with a zero debt / balance. Perhaps this has escaped your accounting attention or seems to be such a little unnecessary detail. Consequently the original question as posed cannot be answered..

Quote Katshores:

But if we did. DID as a possiblity do you think they would realize that what they did in the past would tell them they would do it again after the troubles it faced this country? or would they still do it?

They will do it again. Call this an intuitive hit or an educated guess or just a realistic assessment of the situation we are in.This is not to be construed that I am in agreement with this because I am not. History - no matter how they spin it - can be interesting with the internet. Remember Bill Clinton? He was president before dubyah Bush - looky here:

Bloomberg.com: Newswww.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid...

Dec 21, 2005 – 21 (Bloomberg) -- President Bill Clinton left office in 2001 with a federal budget surplus of $127 billion. President George Bush ran a deficit of ...

Bush Leaving Next President Record Federal Budget Deficitwww.huffingtonpost.com/.../bush-leaving-next-preside_n_115335.ht...

Jul 28, 2008 – Bush Leaving Next President Record Federal Budget Deficit. ANDREW ..... Income Inequality Worse Under Obama Than George W. Bush ...

Quote Katshores:

CASE in point. If we wrote bad checks we would be fine or even face the Judge and also the room that has only one lock thats in front (Prison) and the members of Congress just got a slap on the hand.

Absolutely - be flippin' sure - Never Ever Ever write a bad check ! This was one of the vilest of crimes I observed during my many encounters with the judicial system in the crazy little coastal camelot where I lived.

But Katshores, you see I am agreeing with you again when you write this! Our governance punitively harshly punishes its lowest citizens yet permits our Congress their white collared crimes which are amazingly, destructively & deadly committed by our ruling elites.

Even though we must endure our criminal "white collared" overlords - not all of them are criminals, so we can hope for change. The matter of having our millionaires and billionaires paying a fair tax is an excellent answer to your concerns. Since they are paying to keep our white collared criminals in business - at least we can get some taxes out of them for all the resources they enjoy from our common well established infrastructure. Which they have millionously & billionously benefited from.

pshakkottai's picture
pshakkottai 2 years 27 weeks ago
#7

You are talking the "talking-point-economics" as do the mainstream media. Read my blog "Misunderstood deficits" at

Misunderstood Deficits | Thom Hartmann - News & info from the #1 progressive radio show

to understand why your question is meaningless. Zero debt is impossible and will bring in the mother of all depressions!

media_muse 2 years 27 weeks ago
#8

since I don't see or hear main stream media I am not aware of the "talking-point-economics". Accordingly then, I am not surprised this zero topic would be introduced here by Katshores. I thought perhaps someone might make a simple analogy for Kat that might make cents for this sort of economic scenario.

OK Katshores here goes - maybe this will work.....several years ago I remember one of my nieces had a basic class in dealing with accounting and ones check book. The concept - a live person must go to a bank (OMG - yes a bank) before the account is opened the intended account has a ZERO balance. Once money is put into the account then there is a balance. Let's say you Katshores put in $300.00. So now there is no longer a zero balance but a balance of $300.00. Let say you make a withdrawal of $300.00 so now the balance is zero. If you withdraw another $25.00, now you have a debit balance of -$25.00 and most likely a $45 dollar over draft charge.

pshakkottai's picture
pshakkottai 2 years 27 weeks ago
#9

Talking point economics is to confuse the equations of balance of a currency issuar with the equations for everybdy else.

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a) (Federal Deficits – Net Imports = Net Private Savings) is for govts which have their own currency and

b) (

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Income = expenses + savings is for currency users) which applies to you, me, the States within USA and the Euro nations

c) (Taxes = govt_spending - debt) is not at all true for USA and other sovereign currency issuars. Confusing

a) and c) is talking point economics.

pshakkottai's picture
pshakkottai 2 years 27 weeks ago
#10

Talking point economics is to confuse the equations of balance of a currency issuar with the equations for everybdy else.

a) (Federal Deficits – Net Imports = Net Private Savings) is for govts which have their own currency and

b) (Income = expenses + savings is for currency users) which applies to you, me, the States within USA and the Euro nations

c) (Taxes = govt_spending - debt) is not at all true for USA and other sovereign currency issuars. Confusing

a) and c) is talking point economics.

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