"Renaissance Thinking About the Issues of Our Day"
Druckenmiller accuses seniors of STEALING
Submitted by Nota Doormat on 2. March 2013 - 9:24
This former hedge fund manager is complaining that the senior citizens of the United States are stealing from the youth of today.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-01/druckenmiller-sees-storm-worse-than-08-as-seniors-bankrupt-kids.html
He claims that he does not hate old people, but that old people have a very strong lobby. This lobby is the reason there is an increase in transfer payments into the hands of the elderly. This doess not seen to be accurate and is certainly misleading. Please review this Bloomberg article and video. Perhaps you might wish to have Mr. Druckenmiller on your program. You are the only person I know who can put his arguments into context and set him straight. It seems to me that Wall Street has a far bigger lobbying army than do seniors. It also appears that it was risky and questionable investments by Wall Street bankers that put most sectors of our economy, except their own, in the tail spin we are just now beginning to recover.
Comments
He claims that he does not hate old people, but that old people have a very strong lobby. This lobby is the reason there is an increase in transfer payments into the hands of the elderly. This doess not seen to be accurate and is certainly misleading.
It's a human tendency to deny disagreeable truths. The AARP is indeed a very powerful lobby. U.S. culture must change in significant ways if Druckmiller's very valid concerns aren't to become true. In general, young people in U.S. society don't want to be caregivers for their parents and, as is often the case, couples work and hardly have time even if the wanted. Society, culture needs fundamental shakeup..
Typical tactic to pit one group against the other.... the old divide and conquer routine....... if you get everyone upset and angry then the theives can keep stealing.
Typical tactic to pit one group against the other.... the old divide and conquer routine....... if you get everyone upset and angry then the theives can keep stealing.
Not in this case. Druckmiller outlines a very real problem that needs careful consideration followed by a thoughtful, reasonable plan for its resolution. What do you mean by "the theives can keep stealing" as an answer to this specific problem? Makes no sense. Who are the theives in this case? Who is stealing? Recognize the problem, seek solutions. Begin to take an active part in government.
Sorryf for the error in my previous comment - Should have been "even if they wanted ..." not "even if the wanted..."
It was the hedge fund managers and their Wall Street affiliates that destroyed the financial futures of most elderly citizens and those who were ready to retire in 2008. Savings were decimated, home values collapsed and the bottom fell out of the job market. Since 2008, the right-wing has dominated the conversation while taxes are at an all time low. I would welcome a debate in Congress over the very real issues brought up by Druckenmiller. Unfortunately, that debate does not look like it will happen anytime soon. Neither side seems to have the necessary negotiating skills to get the job done. There are plenty of things that can be done to insure the viability of the social safety net, yet nobody seems to be talking about the issues at stake and how to repair the many severe problems this nation is facing.
Typical tactic to pit one group against the other.... the old divide and conquer routine....... if you get everyone upset and angry then the theives can keep stealing.
Not in this case. Druckmiller outlines a very real problem that needs careful consideration followed by a thoughtful, reasonable plan for its resolution. What do you mean by "the theives can keep stealing" as an answer to this specific problem? Makes no sense. Who are the theives in this case? Who is stealing? Recognize the problem, seek solutions. Begin to take an active part in government.
Sorryf for the error in my previous comment - Should have been "even if they wanted ..." not "even if the wanted..."
There are enough resources to go around, it just depends on your priorities.
Painting the elderly as "taking away" from the young is pitting one generation against the other.
Cause conflict to cloud the real issues of where our priorities are, and take attention away from the theives.
The theives are the Wall Street thugs and goons who fucked things up to begin with their greed and uncontrolable need to gamble.
Is that simple enough for you?
It was the hedge fund managers and their Wall Street affiliates that destroyed the financial futures of most elderly citizens and those who were ready to retire in 2008. Savings were decimated, home values collapsed and the bottom fell out of the job market. Since 2008, the right-wing has dominated the conversation while taxes are at an all time low. I would welcome a debate in Congress over the very real issues brought up by Druckenmiller. Unfortunately, that debate does not look like it will happen anytime soon. Neither side seems to have the necessary negotiating skills to get the job done. There are plenty of things that can be done to insure the viability of the social safety net, yet nobody seems to be talking about the issues at stake and how to repair the many severe problems this nation is facing.
Amen brother!
Yes, Nota Doormat, everything you have said in your last comment is correct. None of it negates Druckenmiller's premises. Contrary to what you say, though, he, for one, was clearly talking about the issues at stake. My major disagreement with the article (and it may be the author, Katherine Burton, speaking rather than Druckenmiller) is contained in this statement:
“In 2011, Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare accounted for 44 percent of the government’s $3.7 trillion in expenditures, up from 34 percent in 1990, according to statistics compiled by the government’s Bureau of Economic Analysis.”
Social Security is NOT a government expenditure. I blogged about this and SS in general at great length here on TH more than a year ago.
This statement from the article is very, very troubling. There's little hope when people can be so easily duped:
"Fifty-one percent of respondents said overhauling Social Security is necessary to substantially reduce the deficit, and 58 percent said the same of Medicare. "
Social Security has nothing to do with the deficit. Period. Apparently many people believe the lie that has been assiduously spread by both government and press.
This next paragraph from the article posits a real problem that intelligent, cool heads must address sooner or later. Sooner the better:
“As the elderly population rises, the number of workers who pay into Social Security is dropping. By 2030, there will be about two workers per retiree, down from 3.4 workers in 2000, according to the 2004 book “The Coming Generational Storm” by Laurence Kotlikoff and Scott Burns. If a three-year-old today is taxed at the same rate as today’s working population, he will get less than half of the benefits that our current seniors are getting, Druckenmiller said.”
Drunkenmiller has some very good suggestions for at least partially solving both the revenue and the SS problems, as below, although I adamantly oppose a federal consumption tax, an onerous regressive tax that weighs heaviest on the poor and less affluent:
“Druckenmiller suggested changing eligibility ages for Social Security and benefit structures for wealthy retirees, as well as removing disincentives for those who would rather work in their later years. Adding a federal consumption tax would help, he said, because seniors consume about the same amount as people in their 20s or 30s, yet pay less in income taxes.”
“Another way to shift the burden as the population ages would be to fully tax dividends and capital gains, since retirees typically rely more on those forms of income, he said. To avoid double taxation, the government could abolish corporate taxes, which would also eliminate some incentives for companies to move business abroad.”
Both the article and Drunkenmiller merit careful consideration. There’s lots of good there although few people would support each and every item.
I've suggested many, many times both here and elsewhere that Congress enact a wealth tax and that inheritance taxes be increased to 90 percent or more. I've suggested other revenue raising measures as well that would not burden the poor or less affluent. I've also called for eliminating corporate income taxes. Congress as structured will never approve any of these measures. Only the voters, by ejecting all incumbents and forcing - somehow - new members to enact term limits and to impose these or similar new taxes, can ultimately bring about at least some of the necessary changes. That new congress would need to do other things as well, surely.
Those who voted for an incumbent step forward, please.
If only it were simple, northlander.