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I just got off the phone with a friend of mine from France. Two of our mutual friends there had breast cancer. Guess what NO WAITING! for surgery (ok a couple of weeks) and long term radiation and chemo. So far both are in remission. One is 45 and the other 75. The 75 year old woman wanted a private room and paid extra, and also extra for some testing, extra costs 1500 Euros or about $2000 everything else covered. 100% coverage for the 45 year old without the extras above. Also, my friend on the phone pays 80 Euros a month (about $110) for herself, her husband and her two children for 100% state provided coverage as above. That's it. No deductibles or co-pays unless you want the few extras as above and you get immediate attention, minimal waiting as you would have had here. End of story.
I'm organizing a health care reform meeting immediately following our county
Democratic Party meeting Saturday morning. And the speaker I invited is a strong advocate for national single-payer healthcare.
There's no reason we have to limit ourselves to what our clueless leaders on Capitol HIll have deemed the narrow parameters for debate.
I don't care how neatly the deck chairs are arranged on this ship, we need to change course.... and fast.
In the healthcare debate, why hasn't anyone mentioned the compromise they have in New Zealand? As I understand it, the way they do it there is that the everyday medical care is just like ours: you get your own insurance or through your work, or you pay out of pocket. but for catastrophic care -- if you are in the hospital -- the government pays for it 100%. The hospitals are government owned, so I guess it's socialized medicine, but it means that no one goes bankrupt because of being in the hospital. It's not ideal, but it's a compromise that we should be considering if we can't get what we want.
Chris,
I'd post my email, too, but have the same reservations. I wish there was some way to allow info. to go to designated people.
I think it is commendable that Don is able to come over from the dark side. There are many republicans who are very unhappy with their party at this time, I just wonder how many will be able to vote Blue in future elections. Time will only tell.
One additional comment - Hate crime and terrorism. Osama Bin Laden didn't hijack the plane and slam it into the WTC towers. But he DID call for the death of americans. Randall Terry didn't SHOOT Dr George Tiller, but he did CALL FOR THE DEATH of abortion doctors.
In summary, shouldn't we be waterboarding Randall Terry?
Thom,
One important comment - the Dr Tiller murder was a HATE crime. It was a murder intended to instill fear in a group of people, in this case pro-choice practicing doctors. Has anyone in the media called this what it is?
Heard the interview with Senator Jeff Merkley. His views on the tobacco bill (S.982) are very disappointing. All he could come up with is the bit about camel trying to hook kids with candy nicotine. He does the same bit on his web site. Besides being a lie, he fails to mention what else the bill would do.
Through the back door it essentially bans tobacco reduced harm products from coming to the market. This includes swedish snus, a oral product from Sweden with a risk factor of 1% compared to smoking cigarettes, and electronic cigarettes, with all the research pointing to the fact that it likely has less then 1% the harmful effects of tobacco cigarettes.
This bill will likely pass to the detriment of 45+ million US citizens addicted to nicotine. Apparently that's okay with the progressives. People addicted to nicotine are the new 2nd class citizen in America. All Thom Hartmann could do was give a large sigh of agreement with Merkley when he went into his little bit about hooking the kids.
For decades the tobacco companies lied about the dangers of cigarettes and millions of people died prematurely because of it. Now, the anti-nicotine crowd, with the support of misguided and corrupt public health advocates are lying about reduced harm nicotine products and millions of people will die prematurely because if it. For the first time in my life, I feel ashamed to call myself a progressive.
I have to admit I'm curious to hear how Thom takes on Dan Gainor, right-wing fibber. The fact is the media can hardly be accused of being overly "liberal" in its disemination of information of anything in regard to Latinos, let alone illegal immigration.
Just to get this out of my system, on Monday someone reiterated something that Thom has said, which is that people like me have no right to an opinion on a certain subject. I will not, however, abstain. Like any other human being I was appalled and dismayed by the news concerning the doctor who was gunned down by an anti-abortion fanatic. However, after listening all Monday and Tuesday to emotional pundits, to the morally and ethically bankrupt hypocrisies of the NOW and NARL people—who seem to forget that it was a male who was killed—I have to voice an opinion. I have a right to an opinion even if I am a man, just like women have the right to their opinions (as far as they can be called) about what men do. And my opinion is this: How did this doctor, who was a churchgoer, square his conscience with the fact that he was one of the few doctors in the state who performed late-term abortions? I know I couldn’t.
There are reasonable rationales for late term abortion; if the child (or fetus if you prefer) is clearly showing evidence of major deformity, brain abnormality or some other defect that will render its life brief and agonizing; or if the mother is suffering from some underlying health issue that will render continuation of the pregnancy a life and death issue. However, these situations are the exception, not the rule; “mental distress,” or a desire to hurt the father are morally or ethically insufficient, and for women to think that they can get away without censor the arbitrary decision to end a life so near to term is reprehensible. All too often, when the activists claim it is a “choice” or their “life”; what they mean in reality is their careers or their personal pleasure. If that is their choice, it would have been a great deal more morally and ethically acceptable if they hadn’t waited until the fetus became viable outside the womb.
The abortion issue is so heated for some people because all they have to offer morally and ethically is hot air. I don’t oppose abortion as a matter of law and pointlessness, but I do have limits to the amount of vapid, self-serving, selfish rhetoric I can digest; more life is snuffed-out by abortion every year than all the Americans killed in all its wars. Abortions will occur whether it is legal or not, and better legal. But I will not stand aside in the face of the blatant corruption that is abortion at any cost.
Whenever I hear a radio-show health care debate, a caller, supposedly from Canada (or any nation with public health care), calls in and talks about how poor their public health care is, long lines, poor choices, etc.
First, half of these callers sound like they haven't left the American south, ever.
Second, this is a minority sentiment in these countries. If it was not, why would they not be converting, left and right, to profit driven systems? These 30 minute infomercials describe how bad the public system works while not providing any major foreign politicians speaking out against them?
Last, It is easy to find citizens in these countries with gripes about the public system, and its easy to make an infomercial about how bad it is. Just imagine doing that about our public school system. But is that really an argument to not provide public education?
I agree with the majority of you. For-profit primary coverage should be illegal. When saving someone's life is in direct conflict with what is, by law, your primary object (to make a profit), you are breaking the law - no matter what.
I don't want my employer holding my health care. Why do we have to go begging to an employer? So many jobs don't offer health care anyway. The employer provided health care is a fragile tenuous ephemeral situation that can be snapped away in a heart beat. Why do employers want to be the gate keepers to America's Health Care. Because they want to keep employee cowed and unable to demand anything or have any opinions not approved of. THEY OWN YOU. And they know it.
Big Employers also want to have some control and inside info over what you are being treated for and what you can document against them. Health care is a Trojan Horse and it is coming out to the point people can see it.
Awesome! Thanks Quark.
I will take the info and run. Keep on fighting the good fight everyone.
I'd post my email for future info, but I'm not to sure if I'd get hate mail or not:) JK
Thom,
What would prevent us from forming a coalition of citizens against the war in Afghanistan to funnel aid and cultural assistance into the villages a la Greg Mortensen?
With the large number of listeners that you have, myself included, we could make a significant impact.
If everyone donated a small amount of money and time, we could build many schools and probably find a more economical way to end this nonsensical war.
Keep up the good fight.
West
That interview Thom just did was the biggest load dropped since the elephants walked through Times Sq. I hope Thom will be willing to comment on the "jounalist."
"We didn't comment on the war because there was no fight in congress to cover." So what were *you* doing instead, Mr. Press-man, picking your nose. The story is not the fight over the war but THE WAR ITSELF. The facts were there to be found. The real journalists over at Knight Ridder found the story. Why couldn't you?
http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Showcase.view&showcas...
Shame Shame Shame and more shame! Your JOB is to cover minority opinions. You obviously know how since you have been doing nothing but that since the Democrats took over.
And another thing that just boiled my potatoes, was when that "reporter" saying that the Obama guys are "thin skinned." Well, weren't the Bushies. But then how would you know? You followed them around like the sheep that you are. Again shame, shame shame!!!!
Please Thom comment on this guy. Don't let him get away with dropping this BS.
Chris, MN group #2:
Mn-prog-events (digest…)
http://lists.cohousing.org/mailman/listinfo/mn-prog-events
Chris,
I sent info. about 4 MN progressive groups, but the message disappeared. I’ll try it a little at a time:
DFL Progressive Caucus Update, May 26, 2009
http://www.progressivecaucus.net
651-251-6381
=================================
DFL PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS ALERTS!
SINGLE PAYER FUNDRAISER AND CELEBRATION, June 18
6:30 - 8:30 PM at the University Club in St. Paul
Reserve your seat now for the Minnesota Universal Health Care
Coalition’s Single-Payer Fundraiser and Celebration on June 18 from 6:30
- 8:30 PM at the University Club in St. Paul. Speakers include Dr.
Oliver Fern, single-payer advocate to the White House Forum on health
care reform, and Senator John Marty, one of the first state legislators
to endorse national single-payer legislation. $50.
FFI: muhcc.org
DONATE TO THE DFL PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS FOR FREE IN 2009!
It’s a new year and a new donation cycle! Donate $50 to the Progressive
Caucus, mail it to our Treasurer, he will process it it through the DFL,
you get a refund form to mail to the state for reimbursement. Everybody
wins! Do it today!
Make checks payable to Minnesota DFL, and be sure to write “DFL
Progressive Caucus” on the memo line. Mail checks to
Dave Moe, Treasurer
DFL Progressive Caucus
2825 28th Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
Chris,
I sent info. about 4 MN progressive groups, but the message disappeared. I’ll try it a little at a time:
DFL Progressive Caucus Update, May 26, 2009
http://www.progressivecaucus.net
messenger@progressivecaucus.net
651-251-6381
=================================
DFL PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS ALERTS!
SINGLE PAYER FUNDRAISER AND CELEBRATION, June 18
6:30 - 8:30 PM at the University Club in St. Paul
Reserve your seat now for the Minnesota Universal Health Care
Coalition’s Single-Payer Fundraiser and Celebration on June 18 from 6:30
- 8:30 PM at the University Club in St. Paul. Speakers include Dr.
Oliver Fern, single-payer advocate to the White House Forum on health
care reform, and Senator John Marty, one of the first state legislators
to endorse national single-payer legislation. $50.
FFI: muhcc.org
DONATE TO THE DFL PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS FOR FREE IN 2009!
It’s a new year and a new donation cycle! Donate $50 to the Progressive
Caucus, mail it to our Treasurer, he will process it it through the DFL,
you get a refund form to mail to the state for reimbursement. Everybody
wins! Do it today!
Make checks payable to Minnesota DFL, and be sure to write “DFL
Progressive Caucus” on the memo line. Mail checks to
Dave Moe, Treasurer
DFL Progressive Caucus
2825 28th Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
Chris, also MN group #4:
www.dfl.org
Chris, MN group #3:
www.mn2020.org
Chris, MN group #2:
Send Mn-prog-events mailing list submissions to
mn-prog-events@justcomm.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.cohousing.org/mailman/listinfo/mn-prog-events
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
mn-prog-events-request@justcomm.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
mn-prog-events-owner@justcomm.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Mn-prog-events digest..."
Chris,
I sent info. about 3 MN progressive groups, but the message disappeared. I'll try it a little at a time:
1) DFL Progressive Caucus Update, May 26, 2009
Posted by: "dfl_pc_2005" messenger@progressivecaucus.net dfl_pc_2005
Tue May 26, 2009 7:44 pm (PDT)
DFL Progressive Caucus Update, May 26, 2009
http://www.progressivecaucus.net
messenger@progressivecaucus.net
651-251-6381
=================================
DFL PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS ALERTS!
SINGLE PAYER FUNDRAISER AND CELEBRATION, June 18
6:30 - 8:30 PM at the University Club in St. Paul
Reserve your seat now for the Minnesota Universal Health Care
Coalition's Single-Payer Fundraiser and Celebration on June 18 from 6:30
- 8:30 PM at the University Club in St. Paul. Speakers include Dr.
Oliver Fern, single-payer advocate to the White House Forum on health
care reform, and Senator John Marty, one of the first state legislators
to endorse national single-payer legislation. $50.
FFI: muhcc.org
DONATE TO THE DFL PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS FOR FREE IN 2009!
It's a new year and a new donation cycle! Donate $50 to the Progressive
Caucus, mail it to our Treasurer, he will process it it through the DFL,
you get a refund form to mail to the state for reimbursement. Everybody
wins! Do it today!
Make checks payable to Minnesota DFL, and be sure to write "DFL
Progressive Caucus" on the memo line. Mail checks to
Dave Moe, Treasurer
DFL Progressive Caucus
2825 28th Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
FFI: "Political Contribution Refund Program" at http://dfl.org
*********************************
Encourage others to subscribe at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DFLProgressiveCaucus/join
Twisted terrorist muslims are Islamofacists, so Tiller's killers and the bible-based anti gay civil rights activists would properly be labled as Christofacists. Appropriately FOX would be the Christofacist network.
I just thought of something else. I've noticed they are ramping up their "pro-life" efforts recently. Is this a coincidence that they are doing this right around the time everyone in America is losing their job? This is more proof that they are trying to send us back to Cratchit and Srooge times. Make abortion illegal and watch the statistics for women graduating from High school.
I just thought of something. If the scumbags at the top want to grow the labor pool to drop the price of labor and raise profits, isn't it in their best interest to keep people OUT of jail? I think this is a case of two powerful scums at the top, one who wants to grow the labor pool, and one who wants to increase mandatory minimum sentences.
Brian,
I believe that your adoption of Thom Hartmann's position that men have no part in the discussion is wrong and is rigidly "politically correct".
Women live in the same societies that men live in and share lives with men. You only seem to be looking at it from the perspective of a woman's choice to terminate a pregnancy or continue it to birth. In those terms, I believe a woman should have the right to make medical decisions about her body and life.
But the social broader discussion involves and affects all of us because it has been made a major issue in our society. Women don't live in a world separate from men, we live together and in the long run share common a common fate. We all should have a place in the discussion.
Do you really think that this is an issue that has all men on one side and all women on the other side? Whose opinion who you value more and is closest to yours in the discussion, Thom Hartmann's or right wing talk radio host Laura Ingraham's, Bernie Sanders or Michelle Bachman's?
This isn't a battle between men and women. It's much more complex than that, with people on both sides coming from a variety of perspectives with a variety of concerns.
And if men don't have the right to voice their opinions on this issue, should they also refrain from doing scientific research on birth control? Should they refrain from making donations to organizations that promote reproductive choice? That doesn't make sense to me, but it seems logical from the perspective that says that men have no say.
Let's look at the issue from the beginning of the pregnancy rather than the end. If only women have a say in these issues, does a wife have the right to intentionally get pregnant without discussing it with her husband. Can she stop using her birth control without telling her husband, who is going to be legally bound to support the child for almost two decades? If you were married or in a relationship with a woman, how would you feel if she decided to undergo artificial insemination without telling you?
Although I'm on the pro-choice side, I don't assume that all people who describe their side as "pro-life" are interested in the subjugation of women. Many of them, including a huge number of women, believe that "life begins at conception" and a cohesive argument can be made for that position. As far as I know, no human being has been born without being conceived first. But the issue is more complex than that, and the pro-choice side is more a religious position more than a scientific or sociological position.
Bottom line, I totally disagree with the position that you and Thom Hartmann take, that men have no say in the discussion about abortion. I support a woman's right to choose. But in the discussion of this as a social issue, I believe that men and women have the right to participate because we're all part of society.
As an after thought, I think Thom sometimes takes some bizarre "politically correct" positions. I don't know if you heard it, but some months ago, Thom started his show tripping over himself while apologizing because he reflexively told Arianna Huffington that she smelled good when she walked past him. I thought Thom's on-air apology was pathetic and bizarre.
Arianna Huffington is a wealthy woman who probably spent a lot of money on an expensive perfume so that she would smell good. She probably has several expensive perfumes because she likes smelling good. I have a feeling that she likes the fact that people notice the pleasing scent of her perfume. Thom thought his compliment was some sort of terrible objectification or her as a woman. the fact is that both men and women have been applying scents to their bodies for a very long time.