Why do people continue to vote for Republicans?

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Quote anonymous green:

Keep it up you two, destroy America's faith in itself. Both sides are evil, and nothing can stop them. We should give up, according to your psy-ops team.

Where to begin... America is an abstract concept and can not gain or lose faith it itself. Both Sides are NOT evil. Evil people are Evil. You should NOT give up, You should get involved. I am.

The ship will be much nicer once the rats have drowned.

So we should kill the rich people?

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am

Nah. Just let them go down with their own ship. As David Korten said, "Let Wall Street fail".

As a secondary sinking, establish public banks based on the model of the state-owned Bank of N. Dakota. Financiers would become irrelevant.The $650 TRILLION global derivatives market would collapse of its own weight and only effect the gamblers in it.

I'm not adverse to throwing them a "life-raft" of food stamps.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote polycarp2:

As a secondary sinking, establish public banks based on the model of the state-owned Bank of N. Dakota.

As long as they are Run by fiscal conservatives as the Bank of N. Dakota has always been run.

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am
Quote Dr. Econ:

Romney put in Obamacare in Ma. Isn't he a conservative

Quote Capital1: Did he... Last I checked, that was the Mass. legislators did "romneycare" and he choose to sign it into law because states can do what the federal government (shouldn't be able to) Romney's original plan was rewritten by the Legislators and then he vetoed 8 sections of the bill in which the Legislator promptly over-rode his veto's.

So who's plan was it again?

You are quibling. He's taken credit and promoted it a number of times because the program is so popular. If you sying the difference between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives want Romneycare in each state while liberals want a national program, I would say that is a difference with little distinction, especially in the minds of most voters.

Quote dr.econ: As to stimulus plans, as I said, they are in all the text books, and the idea is not foreign to conservatives. Paul Ryan argued for one in 2002, saying "You have to spend a little to grow a little".
Quote Capital1:Ironic... Ryan was right then, just as he is right now.

So you agree, then?

About a third of the Obama stimulus was tax cuts - similiar to ones put in by Bush earlier
Quote Capital1:...similar.. but not the same. that is why it failed, progressives trying to act like conservatives.

So you would say Obama is similiar to a conservative? I would be happy with that. If conservatives actually knew all this, Obama would win handily. That is why I say conservatives are low information voters.

And can you spell Todd Akin? Palin? The witch lady who the Republicans nominated in Maryland? The Candidate who won his primary from NY who liked to dress in nazi uniforms? How low on information do you want to go?

And which tea party members protested to Obama to take their 'hands off my medicare', while supporting Ryan's whose initital plan was to essentially end medicare - at least for those elderly who will not be able afford to buy private insurance with their government subsidy?

And which conservatives turned on a dime when Bush admitted that there were no ties between Saddam Hussein and 9-11?

How many conservatives supported Bush and his TARP bailout - then blame Obama for it?

How many conservatives know how much Bush's deficit was project to be in fy 2009 (1.2 trillion - as estimated by the CBO)?

How many conservatives think Obama is on a spending spree, when in the last couple of years, the growth of government spending has been well below average?

How many conservatives don't believe in evolution?

Why do most polls show that FOX viewers are the most misinformed about current events?

What about the facts I mentioned but you ignored - the tendency for the republican primary voters to support candidates they didn't know anything about - as is evident by their quick rejection of these candidates?

Why did Ronald Reagan begin his candidicy supporting Social Security, then provide a plan to double the SS tax? Isn't he more liberal than Obama, who simply wants to save it (like every other conservative president before Bush)? Reagan also granted amnesty to millions of illegals, raised the debt limit, raised taxes 11 times, and lowered the quotas on Japanese cars.

Isn't Obama more of a conservative than Reagan on these issues?

Face it, the reason a lot of conservatives are not voting for Obama is because they are low information voters.

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Dr. Econ
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Dr. Econ:You are quibling.

It's called context... it's really a wonderful invention.

He's taken credit and promoted it a number of times because the program is so popular. If you sying the difference between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives want Romneycare in each state while liberals want a national program, I would say that is a difference with little distinction, especially in the minds of most voters.

Whoa... Stop the presses... MITT a POLITICIAN.... No fucking way. Shocked I tell you.... A conservative Governor in a Flaming liberal state... Here is your problem.

Conservatives do not WANT romneycare in every state..... However the 10th amendment clearly states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people" As such, Massachusetts can develop any heath care system they want. Because HEALTHCARE is NOT delegated to the Feds.. I know Liberals want a national system.... Liberals only care about the constitution when they think it will forward their agenda... any other time... They'd wipe their ass with it.

So you agree, then?

Most certainly..

So you would say Obama is similiar to a conservative?

ACTING like ....

And which conservative, by the way, spell Todd Akin?

You mean that no name guy who's political career will be over in 72 hours. One of the few things I enjoy about the GOP. Where the DEMS embrace and elevate all sort of deviants.

And which tea party members protested to Obama to take their 'hands off my medicare', while supporting Ryan's whose initital plan was to essentially end medicare - at least for those elderly who will not be able afford to buy private insurance with their government subsidy?

Are you trying to pretend you understand Ryans plan? Why would you care if your retirement medical was called Medicare or MSA's if the outcome is the same?

How many conservatives supported Bush and his TARP bailout - then blame Obama for it?

Why would you NOT blame him... Is your memory that bad? Obama was there in the White and in Congress for the whole time. Bush purposely called both McCain and Obama to the White for their blessing.... SINCE THEY WERE THE ONES GOING TO ADMINISTER IT. Obama Spoke on the Floor in support of TARP saying "step up to the plate". Voted in favor of TARP.

Review the Vote record, you'll find republicans were against the program.

How many conservatives don't believe in evolution?

Why would I give a shit about that... They are entitled to believe anything they want, real or imagined.

Why do most polls show that FOX viewers are the most misinformed about current events?

Probably because they are taken by liberals who desperately need to feel superior in the face of defeat.

Why did Ronald Reagan begin his candidicy supporting Social Security, then provide a plan to double the SS tax?

I support raising SS tax to pay for what you use.... That is Fiscally conservative position. I however oppose using those SS funds to artificially inflate the US economy via general fund expenditures. That's not really a left/right policy.... That is just fucking government.

Isn't Obama more of a conservative than Reagan on these issues?

He is a Shitty leader and public servant... the rest is meaningless.

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am

an article about the study mentioned above by Dr. Econ :

Study Finds Fox News Viewers Least Informed Of All Viewers

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/23/fox-news-less-informed-new-study_n_1538914.html

...

The Science of Fox News: Why Its Viewers are the Most Misinformed

http://www.alternet.org/story/154875/the_science_of_fox_news%3A_why_its_viewers_are_the_most_misinformed

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 11:13 am
Quote miksilvr:

an article about the study mentioned above by Dr. Econ :

Study Finds Fox News Viewers Least Informed Of All Viewers

Just what I thought.... stupid.. "study only sampled respondents from New Jersey" Plus the Story doesn't break out Fox NEWS, vs. Fox Commentators. Bill O Reilly is not a News anchor. He's a political commentator.

But , I don't expect you guys to care about the context of you fantastic story Title... Only required you to read 3 whole sentences of the story.

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am
Quote Capital1:
Quote miksilvr:

an article about the study mentioned above by Dr. Econ :

Study Finds Fox News Viewers Least Informed Of All Viewers

Just what I thought.... stupid.. "study only sampled respondents from New Jersey" Plus the Story doesn't break out Fox NEWS, vs. Fox Commentators. Bill O Reilly is not a News anchor. He's a political commentator.

But , I don't expect you guys to care about the context of you fantastic story Title... Only required you to read 3 whole sentences of the story.

Speaking of people not reading far enough ... you missed the part that said unlike the 2011 poll, this years poll was a nationwide poll.:

Researchers at Fairleigh Dickinson University updated a study they had conducted in late 2011. That study only sampled respondents from New Jersey, where the university is located. This time, the researchers conducted a nationwide poll.

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 11:13 am
Quote miksilvr:

Researchers at Fairleigh Dickinson University updated a study they had conducted in late 2011. That study only sampled respondents from New Jersey, where the university is located. This time, the researchers conducted a nationwide poll.

I followed all the links and this is the cited Study.

The Fairleigh Dickinson University poll of 612 adults statewide was underwritten by WFDU-FM Radio and conducted by telephone using both landlines and cell phones from Oct. 17 through Oct. 23, 2011,

Ah... second link... Paper at the bottom.. No direct link to the study.

FNC is striking back with some observations of its own.

FNC spokesperson blasted the findings and turned the tables on the university, pointing out that its own students don’t exactly measure up academically. (FDU was No. 585 on a Forbes ranking of 650 U.S. colleges.)

“Considering FDU’s undergraduate school is ranked as one of the worst in the country,” said the FNC spokesperson, “we suggest the school invest in improving its weak academic program instead of spending money on frivolous polling – their student body does not deserve to be so ill-informed.”

<snicker>

Second one is even funnier... The Scores are tanked when Liberals watch Fox and Conservatives watch MSN. other than tha, not bad... With the huge glaring flaw that people don't identify with a single news source.

The study, though, didn’t actually identify people who got their news only from one source, so they used “multinomial logistic regression” to create representations of such people who were then compared “to a hypothetical construct of someone who had no recent news exposure.”

Good news... I haven't watched Fox News since I came here 6 years ago.

You should read it.... interesting.. In all cases self identified GOP answers better the self identified Dems. Only gets skewed on the leaners.....

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am
Quote anonymous green:
Quote Capital1:
Quote norske:

True enough... and the ability of a handful of obscenely rich sociopaths being able to convince so many to vote and act against their own economic and social best interests is one for the ages.

Love that saying... "so many to vote and act against their own economic and social best interests " Jut let that sink in a moment.

Keep it up you two, destroy America's faith in itself. Both sides are evil, and nothing can stop them. We should give up, according to your psy-ops team.

To everone else here. Don't give up, and don't leave the ship with the rats.

The ship will be much nicer once the rats have drowned.

And the Pharaohs walked toward the sea

which parted, incidentally.

And thinking it was safe to pass

they lifted Romney by the ass

and walked like Gods between the floods

with gold and diamonds in their mouths

to hide them from each other's eyes.

Right here, where now calm waters rise

Sorry buddy I am not going to lose any sleep when I get called an idiot by a person who accused Chevron of arson without a shred of evidence to back it up. Your ideas are as worthless as your credibility. ZERO!!

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Mauiman2
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Jul. 27, 2012 6:24 am
Quote Capital1: ....

I found your response to be unbearable, which I suppose you wanted, since you would hope your bombastic attitude will force me to respond to you with swear words and calling you a moron.

Your attempt at relieving Romney of responsibility of Romney is foolish. Of course Romney had issues, but he signed it in the law, and:

"The plan was approved by two conservative Republicans who were George W. Bush's Secretary of the Health and Human Services Department, Tommy Thompson and Mike Leavitt. Furthermore, the plan was supported overwhelmingly in the MA legislature with 198 house reps supporting the bill and only 2 voting against it - 99% voting in favor of the plan! The bill also passed through the state senate without a single dissenting vote and it was supported by nearly every special interest group in the state.

Look at all those conservatives!

Further,

Moreover, many prominent conservatives have supported the use of the individual healthcare mandate. Some noteworthy conservatives who have supported individual healthcare mandates are:

-President George H. W. Bush
-Speaker Newt Gingrich R-GA
-Senator Orrin Hatch R-UT
-Senator Charles Grassley R-Iowa
-Senator Bob Bennett R-UT
-Senator Christopher Bond R-Missouri
-Senator John Chafee R-RI
-Rep. Bill Thomas R-CA
-And at least 16 other GOP Senators who have since retired from the Senate

Oh my god! Conservatives wanting a health care mandate! Don't they know that's Socialism?

If the conservative voting public was aware of this, and weren't misled by FOX News, Obamacare would be a reason why conservatives and independents would like Obama. Instead, they have been brainwashed and lied to about it ("death panels") so they do not know what it is, and thus dislike it.

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Dr. Econ
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Capital1:

Quote Dr.Econ:So you agree, then?

Most certainly..

So you would say Obama is similiar to a conservative?

ACTING like ....

The point I was making - which you deleted the context of - was that stimulus programs are not simply socialist ideas. They are in most introductory macroeconomics books, and Ryan himself supported it, and you agreed. This means that Obama's stimulus program - which was a third tax cuts - is not the socialist program that the media paints it, and in fact makes Obama similiar to a conservative.

This makes two issues that were brought up - the stimulus and the affordable health care act - to be within the relm of things that a conservative might agree with. And, if conservatives new these truths - if they were not low information voters - then Obama wold win the election hands down.

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Dr. Econ
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Quote Dr.Econ: And which conservative, by the way, voted for Todd Akin?
Quote Capital1:You mean that no name guy who's political career will be over in 72 hours. One of the few things I enjoy about the GOP. Where the DEMS embrace and elevate all sort of deviants.

By definition, the people who voted for Todd Akin were low information voters. The same with the witch in Maryland and the Nazi dresser in New York, and all the other Tea Party freaks and idiots. But I already implied this, and your response was to ignore it, so whatever...

Quote Dr.Econ: ..And which tea party members protested to Obama to take their 'hands off my medicare', while supporting Ryan's whose initial plan was to essentially end medicare - at least for those elderly who will not be able afford to buy private insurance with their government subsidy?
Quote Capital1:Are you trying to pretend you understand Ryans plan? Why would you care if your retirement medical was called Medicare or MSA's if the outcome is the same?

You are changing the subject to try and debate me on medical care, but the point of my remark is that the Republicans are low information voters. If you want to pretend like you can't understand what I wrote in that context, then what can I do? Obviously you are simply closing your mind to this really, really, obvious point of view.

Quote Dr. Econ: How many conservatives supported Bush and his TARP bailout - then blame Obama for it?
Quote Capital1:Why would you NOT blame him... Obama Spoke on the Floor in support of TARP

I said "conservatives supported Bush". People supported Bush but blamed Obama for the result of the policy. Why? because people don't know that TARP was passed under Bush.

Quote Dr. Econ:How many conservatives don't believe in evolution?
Quote capital: Why would I give a shit about that... They are entitled to believe anything they want, real or imagined.

I see that you have lost it completely. Not believing in evolution proves they are low information voters. Many of them wanted to ban it from the schools. Some places even have.

Quote dr.econ:Why did Ronald Reagan begin his candidacy supporting Social Security, then provide a plan to double the SS tax?
Quote capital: I support raising SS tax to pay for what you use.... That is Fiscally conservative position. I however oppose using those SS funds to artificially inflate the US economy via general fund expenditures. That's not really a left/right policy.... That is just fucking government.

Obama is fighting to save the program that Reagan fought so hard far. If people knew this, then they would be much more accepting of Obama and less of Romney. But, they are low information.

Quote dr. econ: Isn't Obama more of a conservative than Reagan on these issues?
Quote capital1:He is a Shitty leader and public servant... the rest is meaningless.

Actually, you delete the part where I proved that Obama is more of a conservative than Reagan. These were:

1)Lowering import quotas of Japanese auto imports
2) Amnesty for illegals
3) Raising taxes 11 times
4) Raising the debt limit

Instead, you say all these arguments are 'meaningless'. I know you are intelligent person, so I must conclude that your inability to respond to facts, arguments and reason, coupled with your sudden use of swear words means you are simply lying to yourself, and ready to advance whatever argument you feel is necessary to promote your views.

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Dr. Econ
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Quote Capital1: He is a Shitty leader and public servant... the rest is meaningless.

Really? Off the top of my head, here are the points I raised:

1) And which conservatives turned on a dime when Bush admitted that there were no ties between Saddam Hussein and 9-11?
2) How many conservatives know how much Bush's deficit was project to be in fy 2009 (1.2 trillion - as estimated by the CBO)?
3) How many conservatives think Obama is on a spending spree, when in the last couple of years, the growth of government spending has been well below average?
4) the tendency for the republican primary voters to support candidates they didn't know anything about - as is evident by their quick rejection of these candidates?

This is quite a lot. Basically it refutes most of the Republican talking points - points made because of low information voters.

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Dr. Econ
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Capital1 criticizes this study

The Fairleigh Dickinson University poll of 612 adults statewide was underwritten by WFDU-FM Radio and conducted by telephone using both landlines and cell phones from Oct. 17 through Oct. 23, 2011,

with a quote from Fox News. Fox news critizes the study because of the low rank of the university that the authors were. This is of course irrelevent, and Capital1 just uses it as filler. His second remark is that :

Quote Capital1: In all cases self identified GOP answers better the self identified Dems. Only gets skewed on the leaners.....

I have no idea what that remark responds to. The link above does not have it. There is another link - for the national study -, but the results are all over the place, and no significance tests are in the links. However, all the studies show that the people watching Fox news to be less informed than non-cable TV news. The Daily show can often do better in some cases. MSNBC is not very good either in the national study- but few watch that. Capital1 also makes the point that conservatives watching MSNBC and liberals watching Fox also do worse - but so what?

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Dr. Econ
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Sorry Dr. Econ, the theroy of evolution is a joke, only low information persons still believe in it for at least the following four reasons.

At some point someone, or something had to make something out of nothing. That completely violates the law of conservation of mass and energy. Evolutionists have no answer for that one.

There is simply no way to slowly evolve a bird. No way, no how.

Evolution violates the seond law of thermodynamics. No one disputes the second law of thermodyamics.

There are holes in the fossil records large enough to drive a truck through. All the evoutionists can say is "we know they are there, we just have not found them yet" Huh? You can believe anything you want to if that is your method of finding the truth.

And that's only for starters. The more scientists discover in microbiology, the more they see things that could never have evolved.

So who's the "low information voter" now?

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Mauiman2
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Jul. 27, 2012 6:24 am

ROFLMAO!!!

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stefanitza27
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Jun. 14, 2011 2:17 pm
Quote stefanitza27:

ROFLMAO!!!

Sorry buddy I have just an idiot right winger that has no idea what this string of letters stands for. Can you enlighten me?

Thanks

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Mauiman2
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Jul. 27, 2012 6:24 am
Quote Mauiman2:

Sorry buddy I have just an idiot right winger that has no idea what this string of letters stands for. Can you enlighten me?

I think it's best if your kept in the dark, since your mind lives in the dark ages still.

BSURSUCSIMIM

anonymous green
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Jan. 5, 2012 10:47 am
Quote anonymous green:
Quote Mauiman2:

Sorry buddy I have just an idiot right winger that has no idea what this string of letters stands for. Can you enlighten me?

I think it's best if your kept in the dark, since your mind lives in the dark ages still.

BSURSUCSIMIM

Yep those very same dark ages when people did not make an accusation of arson unless they at least had some proof to back the statement up with. I'll stay in those dark ages, thank you very much.

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Mauiman2
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Quote Capital1:

Romney's original plan was rewritten by the Legislators and then he vetoed 8 sections of the bill in which the Legislator promptly over-rode his veto's.

"In fall 2005 the House and Senate each passed health care insurance reform bills. The legislature made a number of changes to Governor Romney's original proposal, including expanding MassHealth (Medicaid and SCHIP) coverage to low-income children and restoring funding for public health programs. The most controversial change was the addition of a provision which requires firms with 11 or more workers that do not provide "fair and reasonable" health coverage to their workers to pay an annual penalty. This contribution, initially $295 annually per worker, is intended to equalize the free care pool charges imposed on employers who do and do not cover their workers. On April 12, 2006, Governor Mitt Romney signed the health legislation.[20]

Romney vetoed eight sections of the health care legislation, including the controversial employer assessment.[21] Romney also vetoed provisions providing dental benefits to poor residents on the Medicaid program, and providing health coverage to senior and disabled legal immigrants not eligible for federal Medicaid.[22] The legislature promptly overrode six of the eight gubernatorial section vetoes, on May 4, 2006, and by mid-June 2006 had overridden the remaining two."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_reform

chilidog
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

And in my opinion, it really is because of easy access to the Right wing bullshit media! Too many big corporate radio,Tv "news" programs and certainly not enough access to the common sense progressive media! One example I will throw out there is Fox news 24 hour 7 day a week access (weekends) versus MSNBC ( Big Corporate Owned, I know) running Lock up progarms for the majority of the weekend! Not to mention that the twist that Fox news put's on everything! Try's to scare the shit out of people! Certainly a much lower educated society and a shrinking base of free thinkers! The slash on the educational system is certainly about MORE than funding!

And also the Progressive message is a little harder to explain and relate to the population.The Right wing seems to be able to put their message of hate and stupidity on small, short pulses that flow into an uneducated and usually uninterested person's ear and settles into the brain as fact! Bumper sticker messages are easy when the message is Hate everybody who is different and don't trust anyone (except us) and be afraid!

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k78333
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Feb. 17, 2011 9:19 am
Quote Mauiman2:

Sorry buddy I am not going to lose any sleep when I get called an idiot by a person who accused Chevron of arson without a shred of evidence to back it up. Your ideas are as worthless as your credibility. ZERO!!

Who are you talking to?

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am

Why people would vote For Either rightwing, owned and controlled by oligarchs parties is beyond me.

Greg Palast has a new book coming out in which he spells out exactly which oligarchs control each party.

Romney and the rethugs are controlled by the hedge funders.

While Obama and the dems are controlled by the old banking interests - Goldman Sachs, JP morgue, citibank(where rubin made $100 million after the repeal of glass-seigal which he helped slam thru), GE etc.... Basically the same clowns running around the whitehouse on a daily basis.

Vote for either party but know you are a peon under the radar of the billionaires as they battle it out for control of the guv and laws.

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Scappoose
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Mar. 30, 2012 6:49 am
Quote Dr. Econ:

I have no idea what that remark responds to. The link above does not have it. There is another link - for the national study -, but the results are all over the place, and no significance tests are in the links. However, all the studies show that the people watching Fox news to be less informed than non-cable TV news. The Daily show can often do better in some cases. MSNBC is not very good either in the national study- but few watch that. Capital1 also makes the point that conservatives watching MSNBC and liberals watching Fox also do worse - but so what?

Scroll to the bottom, The Current study is embedded in a Scribd

Read the study yourself. In all cases, Republican beat Democrat in knowledge.

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am
Quote Capital1:

Scroll to the bottom, The Current study is embedded in a Scribd

Read the study yourself. In all cases, Republican beat Democrat in knowledge.

If we're down to my dog is better than your dog, then the discussion is moot.

We're trying to perfect the Union, not further divide it.

Sure the 'oligarchs' are our Pharaohs, but it's Pharaoh's turn to walk, this time around.

Let these people go, but take their assetts before they turn their backs on the country that they raped.

anonymous green
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Jan. 5, 2012 10:47 am
Quote Dr. Econ:Look at all those conservatives!

What does that tell you?? Nothing except that conservatives believe in states rights.

Moreover, many prominent conservatives have supported the use of the individual healthcare mandate. Some noteworthy conservatives who have supported individual healthcare mandates are:

Already hashed this out with Peirpont. Majority of congressional Conservatives were the first to push it Federally. However, Their Bills died in committee. Nor does their 1993 support assume constitutionality.

So does all that have to do with the tea in china?

This started by the claim this this was RomneyCare. and I said the legislators are the ones who rewrote his plan. He vetoed some sections and the Congress overruled him... So what did Romney oppose

What Changes Would Romney Make to RomneyCare?/

opposed was the "Employer Mandate"

Opt out option - Romney wanted to have a way for people to be able to "opt out" of the insurance mandate. Despite arguing in favor of an opt out option, the Democratic legislature rejected the idea.

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am
Quote anonymous green:

If we're down to my dog is better than your dog, then the discussion is moot.

Is that your answer to the FACT that Republicans are smarter than democrats in a study that claims people that watch Fox are Stupid. Ok then... I suggest not posting "studies" that have this sort of information in it.

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Capital1
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Quote Capital1:
Quote Mauiman2:

Sorry buddy I am not going to lose any sleep when I get called an idiot by a person who accused Chevron of arson without a shred of evidence to back it up. Your ideas are as worthless as your credibility. ZERO!!

Who are you talking to?

Annonomous (sp?) Green, who accused Chevron of arson without a shred of evidence. Totaly irresponsible.

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Mauiman2
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Quote Dr. Econ:

By definition, the people who voted for Todd Akin were low information voters. The same with the witch in Maryland and the Nazi dresser in New York, and all the other Tea Party freaks and idiots. But I already implied this, and your response was to ignore it, so whatever...

Did you take an intelligence poll of those who voted for Todd Akin. Even the poll you brought forth regarding Fox news says that Republicans are Smarter than Democrats. Studies don't lie do they?

You are changing the subject to try and debate me on medical care, but the point of my remark is that the Republicans are low information voters. If you want to pretend like you can't understand what I wrote in that context, then what can I do? Obviously you are simply closing your mind to this really, really, obvious point of view.

Changing the subject, Correcting your lie. Ryan's plan does not "End Medicare" It transforms it.

O look yet another reference to "Republicans are low information voters" The new politically correct way to say Stupid. To bad Republicans are smarter than Democrats...

I said "conservatives supported Bush". People supported Bush but blamed Obama for the result of the policy. Why? because people don't know that TARP was passed under Bush.

Nobody I know supported TARP. Congressional voting roles certainly showed not all conservatives supported Bush. And a quick Google search for "Conservatives Blame Obama for TARP" didn't yield anything of substance.

If by chance you are referring to CBS poll that had 47% of people believe Obama started the Bank Bailout. Again, Republicans score better.

Hmmmm Low information but Right or High informaiton and Wrong .... which is better..

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am
Quote Capital1:

Is that your answer to the FACT that Republicans are smarter than democrats in a study that claims people that watch Fox are Stupid. Ok then... I suggest not posting "studies" that have this sort of information in it.

There were plenty of 'studies' proving Blacks inferior to Whites, and that the Sun revolved around the Earth, and other myths of 'science'.

Polls and surveys today are simple manipulations of those who are fooled into answering a loaded question, and those who put faith in manipulated answers.

There are good guys, and bad guys in this world. Some are Dems, some Repubs, some cops, and some criminals and smugglers in the Real Tea Party.

Why argue a point that's moot. We all have the potential to show intelligence, given the truth.

anonymous green
Joined:
Jan. 5, 2012 10:47 am
Quote anonymous green:

There were plenty of 'studies' proving Blacks inferior to Whites, and that the Sun revolved around the Earth, and other myths of 'science'.

Can you produce just 1, I would love to see just 1.

Why argue a point that's moot. We all have the potential to show intelligence, given the truth.

Why? because I am not the one who brought it up, nor the one claiming Low information voters, which we all know is code for Stupid.

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Capital1
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am

Why can't we just compare Mississippi to New York?

chilidog
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Capital1:
Quote anonymous green:

There were plenty of 'studies' proving Blacks inferior to Whites, and that the Sun revolved around the Earth, and other myths of 'science'.

Can you produce just 1, I would love to see just 1.

Why argue a point that's moot. We all have the potential to show intelligence, given the truth.

Why? because I am not the one who brought it up, nor the one claiming Low information voters, which we all know is code for Stupid.

If you dispute that 'science' once told us Blacks were inferior, or that before Galileo that the sun revolved around the earth, then you are lacking real information, proving the original point.

Look at the Akin remarks, and those who support his faked science, and you'll have to admit these people are lacking real information.

I would say your plan to drag that aircraft carrier into your town is a low information plan as well. Think it through, and get some information from those who are not making money off the deal, or making money saying it will be a fine idea.

Cherry-picking science will get you in deep doo doo.

anonymous green
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Jan. 5, 2012 10:47 am
Quote anonymous green:

If you dispute that 'science' once told us Blacks were inferior, or that before Galileo that the sun revolved around the earth, then you are lacking real information, proving the original point.

Never said those notions weren't wide held beliefs..... I just doubt there were actual Scientific Studies to that effect. Yet you claim there were....

Look at the Akin remarks, and those who support his faked science, and you'll have to admit these people are lacking real information.

Point to somebody... give me an example.

I would say your plan to drag that aircraft carrier into your town is a low information plan as well. Think it through, and get some information from those who are not making money off the deal, or making money saying it will be a fine idea.

While this is your opinion, I KNOW for a FACT you don't know anything about the Project, nor what is required by the Navy, Federal, State, County and City. They are only in the Phase 2 portion of a 4 phase project.... Phase 2 required 3 x 3" binders worth of information. To my considerable knowledge. No group or individual has spoken out against the project.

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am

Hye Capital1, look at who you are arguing with. One guy who believes in evolution and a second guy who has no problems accusing someone of arson when there is no shred of proof that such a thing happened.

Do you really expect to "win" an arguement with either of those two? Really?

Good Luck

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Mauiman2
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Jul. 27, 2012 6:24 am
Quote Mauiman2:

Hye Capital1, look at who you are arguing with. One guy who believes in evolution and a second guy who has no problems accusing someone of arson when there is no shred of proof that such a thing happened.

Do you really expect to "win" an arguement with either of those two? Really?

Good Luck

I know.... either that or do inventory or break down the Card Board to recycle.

There is no "winning" only enlightenment.

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am
Quote Capital1:
Quote anonymous green:

If you dispute that 'science' once told us Blacks were inferior, or that before Galileo that the sun revolved around the earth, then you are lacking real information, proving the original point.

Never said those notions weren't wide held beliefs..... I just doubt there were actual Scientific Studies to that effect. Yet you claim there were....

Look at the Akin remarks, and those who support his faked science, and you'll have to admit these people are lacking real information.

Point to somebody... give me an example.

I would say your plan to drag that aircraft carrier into your town is a low information plan as well. Think it through, and get some information from those who are not making money off the deal, or making money saying it will be a fine idea.

While this is your opinion, I KNOW for a FACT you don't know anything about the Project, nor what is required by the Navy, Federal, State, County and City. They are only in the Phase 2 portion of a 4 phase project.... Phase 2 required 3 x 3" binders worth of information. To my considerable knowledge. No group or individual has spoken out against the project.

No, I won't point you towards the real information you deny exists, go ahead and fool yourself about Galileo, Akin, and Darwin.

I'm speaking out about your Aircraft carrier. To you directly.

Were there ever depleted uranium shells or any other radioactive materials on board? How about toxic paint that will need to be scraped off someday, after it's there in the river by the Native Villiage?

anonymous green
Joined:
Jan. 5, 2012 10:47 am
Quote Mauiman2:

... accusing someone of arson when there is no shred of proof that such a thing happened.

What about the proof that Chevron knew the pipe was bad, and left it alone? How about the statements from Chevron that they were doing a controlled burn? How about parking an ignition source next to a flammable vapor cloud?

How about those Camaros?

anonymous green
Joined:
Jan. 5, 2012 10:47 am
Quote anonymous green:

No, I won't point you towards the real information you deny exists, go ahead and fool yourself about Galileo, Akin, and Darwin.

Sort of convenient.. moving on...

I'm speaking out about your Aircraft carrier. To you directly.

On what grounds to you oppose the project?

Were there ever depleted uranium shells or any other radioactive materials on board? How about toxic paint that will need to be scraped off someday, after it's there in the river by the Native Villiage?

Possibly.... US didn't start using DU until 1991 Gulf war. USS Ranger was decommissioned 1993.

There is asbestos all over the ship that is maintained religiously but the current maintenance staff. Entire external of the Ship will be sand blasted and repainted long before it gets to Fairview. I'm told that while in Dry dock the main sections to be used as a heritage center will also be sand blasted and painted. Other sections will remain closed and be worked on as time allows.

There are no Native tribes within 50 miles of the sight.

Phase 3 of the Navy requirements is a whole battery of environmental studies. Everything from River current studies regarding fish habitat to air quality and sustainability, it will take a over a year to to complete.

anything else?

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am
Quote Mauiman2:Sorry Dr. Econ, the theroy of evolution is a joke, only low information persons still believe in it for at least the following four reasons.At some point someone, or something had to make something out of nothing. That completely violates the law of conservation of mass and energy. Evolutionists have no answer for that one.

You are correct that science can take us only so far in the chain of causality. Eventually, at some point, you have to believe that there is a reason for something rather than nothing. If you call that a god, fine. I do.

But having created this reality, god does not have to tinker with it. He does not have to make this molecule go there, then here, then there again. He set the ball up, and now it rolls out in it's plan. The science of evolution and genetics is precisely the process by which god creates life: that is actually Darwin's original thinking. Species evolve by genetic mutation. It is a fact. It has been proven in several cases.And it is perfectly consistent with a primordial creator. But it is not consistent with a god that is described in the fairy tale of Genesis. He did not say 'I'm going to create man, then a woman, then all the animals: poof!'. All the fossil record shows a long history of evolving histories. There are even animals evolving today.

Mass an energy of course are conserved. Just follow the energy from the sun. When life was originally created billions of years ago, higher order energy was made into lesser with a release of heat. The result was something more ordered in one place, but less ordered around it.

Quote Mauiman2: There is simply no way to slowly evolve a bird. No way, no how.

Of course there is. Take a biology class.

Quote Mauiman2: ...There are holes in the fossil records large enough to drive a truck through. All the evolutionists can say is "we know they are there, we just have not found them yet" Huh? You can believe anything you want to if that is your method of finding the truth.

If you want to prove evolution, then study genetics or the experiments done with virus and microbes. Yes, it takes longer to see evolution in more advanced species.

[/quote] So who's the "low information voter" now?[/quote]

You are being way too clever. Let me - for fun - grant you your criticisms. You would then know more than hundreds of thousands of scientists - many of them conservatives. The typical conservative voter has absolutely no idea of all this. They don't believe in evolution because they read some myth in the Bible. Even if they are right, they would obviously be low information.

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Dr. Econ
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Your comments are perfect. Absolutely perfect. This is my favorite liberal position. Those of you on the right don't agree with me, so you must just be stupid. You can't possibly have a valid point or have a different perspective or a different experience in life. After all, I'm a liberal, I'm worldly, refined and well educated on all subjects. Allow me to quote a few of your comments..."If conservatives were smart"; "independent conservatives are not that insane"; and "They are simply not well informed." That's a great way to have a dialogue, be inclusive and foster meaniful debate. Maybe I have you all wrong. Perhaps you were simply quoting from a fight you overheard on a third grade school playground. Oh yeah, well you're stupid! Good one! You really got him that time!

How about this, many voters, not just Republicans, voted for Bush in 2000 because they were disgusted with Clinton's escapades in the oval office and Gore ran a terrible campaign. I'm a conservative and I actually wanted to vote for Gore. I have been impressed with Al Gore for years going back to his days as a TN Sen. When his campaign started to fall apart, I began to have second thoughts. If he couldn't garner a lead in the polls on the heels of a very successful President and strong economy, how could he run a country? If he couldn't surround himself with smart capable advisors in a campaign, how could he lead?

While I'm ranting, do you actually know any Tea Party members? I suspect you do not. I suspect you only know what you read in the NY Times or see on MSNBC. Many of the Tea Party members (and I know quite a few) are people living in rural communities who feel completely abandoned by the political system. They see Republicans as big business and Democrats as big city folks. They see liberals wanting to take what little money they have and redistribute it to those unwilling to work. They see their jobs being sent away and their retirement plans on hold. They don't see anyone providing help to them.

Conservative_Th...
Joined:
Jun. 15, 2012 11:01 am
Quote Capital1:

There are no Native tribes within 50 miles of the sight.

Phase 3 of the Navy requirements is a whole battery of environmental studies. Everything from River current studies regarding fish habitat to air quality and sustainability, it will take a over a year to to complete.

anything else?

I thought there was a Native acraeological site right next to the donated land. Isn't that true?

I still wonder, besides the DU and the obvious need to scrape the hull and repaint it over the years, what are you going to do when the thing floats away in the 100 yr flood.

Mightn't it hit something, like... Portland, or a bridge or two, as it rips mercilessly downstream?

anonymous green
Joined:
Jan. 5, 2012 10:47 am
Quote Conservative_Thom_Fan:

While I'm ranting, do you actually know any Tea Party members? I suspect you do not. I suspect you only know what you read in the NY Times or see on MSNBC. Many of the Tea Party members (and I know quite a few) are people living in rural communities who feel completely abandoned by the political system. They see Republicans as big business and Democrats as big city folks. They see liberals wanting to take what little money they have and redistribute it to those unwilling to work. They see their jobs being sent away and their retirement plans on hold. They don't see anyone providing help to them.

I'm the leader of the Real Tea Party, smugglers and criminals like the original one. Our tea is Cannabis, but we're denied the right to guns.

Your tea party is a bunch of phonies protecting their piles of money from legitimate taxes for rebuilding the America Bush poisoned with his fascist policies.

Go spit.

anonymous green
Joined:
Jan. 5, 2012 10:47 am
Quote anonymous green:

I thought there was a Native acraeological site right next to the donated land. Isn't that true?

Not that I am aware of, You may have mistaken Chinook Landing (the Boat launch) with a Native American site.

I still wonder, besides the DU and the obvious need to scrape the hull and repaint it over the years, what are you going to do when the thing floats away in the 100 yr flood.

Good thing they are required to plan for the 500 year flood. and being anchored to shore and whatever other precautions they are required to do. We will never own the ship, The Navy will. I suspect they will make sure their ship doesn't cause problems.

Mightn't it hit something, like... Portland, or a bridge or two, as it rips mercilessly downstream?

2 uninhabited islands are downstream between the ship and the bridge 6 miles away. Most likely it'll run a ground.

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Capital1
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Jul. 31, 2012 6:38 am
Quote Conservative_Thom_Fan:

Your comments are perfect. Absolutely perfect. This is my favorite liberal position. Those of you on the right don't agree with me, so you must just be stupid.

I am actually not saying that. I am saying if conservatives actually knew how conservative actually was - rather than the myth generated by FOX news, then he would win in a landslide. But they don't know because they are low information voters.

I have spent a lot of time on this arguement, and if you disagree with it, you are free to explain why.

If you are, in fact a high information voter.

I suspect, however, from your casual dissmisal of Gore and your implicit acceptence of Bush, that you are a very, very, low information voter.

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Dr. Econ
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Capital1:
Quote Dr. Econ:

I have no idea what that remark responds to. The link above does not have it. There is another link - for the national study -, but the results are all over the place, and no significance tests are in the links. However, all the studies show that the people watching Fox news to be less informed than non-cable TV news. The Daily show can often do better in some cases. MSNBC is not very good either in the national study- but few watch that. Capital1 also makes the point that conservatives watching MSNBC and liberals watching Fox also do worse - but so what?

Scroll to the bottom, The Current study is embedded in a Scribd

Read the study yourself. In all cases, Republican beat Democrat in knowledge.

That doesn't have any statistical signficance reported on it, thus, you cannot draw that conclusion.

If your talking about K1, it seems to indicate that the unweighted average is 42.5% for the Republicans, where it is 39.5% for the Democrats. On the other hand, K2, the average is 58.5% for the Dems and 56.5% for the Reps. K5 shows 69.5% fro the Dems and while only 62.5% for Reps.

But that doesn't have any statistical signficance on it, thus, you cannot draw that conclusion. You can, however, quote the findings, which are:

"NPR and Sunday morning political talk shows are the most informative news outlets, while exposure to partisan sources, such as Fox News and MSNBC, has a negative impact on people’s current events knowledge. "

I rest my case.

Dr. Econ's picture
Dr. Econ
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Capital1:
Quote Dr. Econ:Look at all those conservatives!

What does that tell you?? Nothing except that conservatives believe in states rights.

Aren't you being insincere here? You completely deleted my point. I quote several conservatives and many Republicans voting for Romney care and supporting the individual mandate and Romney care. It shows the similarity of Obamacare.

I don't care what you think of all those promient conservatives, or the Republicans who voted for RomneyCare, or Romney himself when he bragged about it. I care about the fact that conservative voters don't know this. All they hear about is 'death panels' = Obamacare. They are LOW INFORMATION voters.

If people actually knew that a lot of Obama's health care bill was in Romneycare, Obama would be far more ahead in the polls. But they don't, because FOX News lies to them, saying that there are death panels in Obamacare.

And this one example of the conservative nature of Obama's health care act is simply one among many. Obama has been a conservative even more than the few that I thought of on the spur of the momement. Rember Gitmo? Oil exploration? Arrests and deportation of illegals?

How about government employment? The lying Republicans said that Obama was causing an increase in government employment based on the stimulus - but it turned out they lied - it was the census workers. Take those out of the picture and federal government employment has been on a downward trend since Obama took office.

Lie, misinformation and stupidity everywhere.

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Dr. Econ
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Dr. Econ:

By definition, the people who voted for Todd Akin were low information voters. The same with the witch in Maryland and the Nazi dresser in New York, and all the other Tea Party freaks and idiots. But I already implied this, and your response was to ignore it, so whatever...

Quote Capital1:Did you take an intelligence poll of those who voted for Todd Akin.

Uh, I don't have to. The guy is a moron. If the story didn't break, Todd Akin would win precisely because of the low information voter who didn't know all this about him.

Quote Capital1:You are changing the subject to try and debate me on medical care, but the point of my remark is that the Republicans are low information voters. If you want to pretend like you can't understand what I wrote in that context, then what can I do? Obviously you are simply closing your mind to this really, really, obvious point of view.
Quote Dr. Econ:...Changing the subject, Correcting your lie. Ryan's plan does not "End Medicare" It transforms it.

I said "tea party members protested to Obama to take their 'hands off my medicare', while supporting Ryan's whose initial plan was to essentially end medicare - at least for those elderly who will not be able afford to buy private insurance with their government subsidy? "

Your continual misquote of what I am saying is the worst I ever engaged in here. I mean, really the worst. Jrod, Workingman, Truth to Power, Rigel1, never chopped up things the way you do - completely neglecting the points. It is very frustrating.

Quote dr.econ: I said "conservatives supported Bush". People supported Bush but blamed Obama for the result of the policy. Why? because people don't know that TARP was passed under Bush.
Quote Capital1:Nobody I know supported TARP. Congressional voting roles certainly showed not all conservatives supported Bush. And a quick Google search for "Conservatives Blame Obama for TARP" didn't yield anything of substance.

TARP is a constant talking point on FOX News and others critical of him.

Quote Capital1:If by chance you are referring to CBS poll that had 47% of people believe Obama started the Bank Bailout. Again, Republicans score better.

So because FOX News and the lying media convince everyone of a conservative lie, that somehow supports your position that conservatives are not low information voters? I find that hilarious. And only 36% guessed it right? That is amazing. Yes, I will certainly admit that liberals are low information at times too - but at least they are not low information voters - their ignorance on a few issues does not effect their otherwise correct intuition on who to vote for. This is because they get a more balanced picture of the news by getting other sources.

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Dr. Econ
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Capital1:
Quote anonymous green:

I thought there was a Native acraeological site right next to the donated land. Isn't that true?

Not that I am aware of, You may have mistaken Chinook Landing (the Boat launch) with a Native American site.

What about Nichaqwli, just accross the road?

It seems people are not sure what will happen this year, how can you plan 500 yrs ahead?

anonymous green
Joined:
Jan. 5, 2012 10:47 am