Gun Nuts Hate Teachers, Minorites, Liberals: Time for Gun Stamps.

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Gun Nuts Spew Hatred of Schools and Teachers Too. Remember George Bush’s Education Chief calling teachers union 'terrorist organization'. This is the same political base that shows up at presidential events with automatic weapons to intimidate their political opponents with eliminationist rhetoric, and even threatened to kill the President, and actually shot a Democratic politician—Gabrielle Giffords. And it is the same political ideologues that are spreading false information about the Sandy Hook murder suicide by creating pseudo Facebook pages and taking ordinary media reporting errors as evidence of a government conspiracy to outlaw guns. Here is an example of Right-Wingnut propaganda about the school murders.

And I agree with Thom’s rejection of Whack-A-Doodle language that talks of “Gun rights,” “Assault weapons,” instead of automatic military weapons, and “Mass murder” instead of murder-suicide. The Howling at the Moon Gun Nuts’ tortured interpretation of the Second Amendment is pure stupidity and it's time to stop listening to them.

I had enough of “tragedy porn” in the media. That is why I cancelled my cable TV subscription. Cable TV media glorifies weapons and right-wing hate groups like the Discovery Channel Sons of Guns and gun psychopaths like Ted Nugent. Cable News media explodes tragedy, disseminates disinformation, and then charges you for the propaganda. Stop financially supporting this domestic enemy!

Gun owners should have to purchase every year a “Gun stamp” for each gun owned at the price of $10,000 per gun stamp. You can still legally own a gun, but you must purchase a regulation gun stamp just like you have to purchase a car registration. After all, the US Constitution text says, “well regulated” militia.

Let’s start playing the Right-Wing Republican’s game like they play with everyone else.

Antifascist's picture
Antifascist
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Comments

Very good idea,it would take a revolution to make it a reality. The idea remind one of the Chris Rock joke about guns, "Imagine having a gun with a bullet that cost a thousand dollars,how many people are worth a thousand dollar bullet"? (i think i got it right)

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tayl44
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote tayl44:

Very good idea,it would take a revolution to make it a reality. The idea remind one of the Chris Rock joke about guns, "Imagine having a gun with a bullet that cost a thousand dollars,how many people are worth a thousand dollar bullet"? (i think i got it right)

You have the idea right, but you discounted the cost unintentionally ... norske included that youtube clip in a reply he made earlier today to this item (my "tounge in cheek" response follows): high capacity magazines

17. December 2012 - 11:56 (Reply to #6) #14

Quote norske:

Bullet control... "I would blow you away, if I could afford to... You better hope I can't buy some bullets on layaway"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZrFVtmRXrw

Nice clip ...

I've always been a little fond of this one, too (one of several good messages / warnings from this movie):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEdyYP-vERs

Takes a little of the punch out of arguments for why people should have the right to own such weapons, eh?

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 11:13 am

Howling at the moon Right-Wing Republican gun nut Whackos looking for an excuse to kill....

Normal
0

‘Stand your ground’ cited in shooting of whiny Little Caesars Pizza customer

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Antifascist
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miksilvr, thanks for your post & links. Yes the clip is good and show comedy can make us laugh and educate at the same time. Antifascist, the 1% knew what it was doing, getting states to pass them "stand your ground" laws. A full moon isn`t needed to bring out the "nut-cases". I agree,we need to take there play book and use it. As they say, "the best defense is offense"! "THE NRA SELL GUNS TO KILL CHILDREN"!, would be a good bumper sticker.

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tayl44
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

We should all turn in our guns and trust the government, even if someone worse than Obama or Bush becomes president.

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Number12
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Quote Number12:

We should all turn in our guns and trust the government, even if someone worse than Obama or Bush becomes president.

Do you really think that civilians with arms could do anything in response to a dictatorial government? That whole meme needs to be filed in the Smithsonian for historical purposes.

No, your right to gun ownership is for self protection and that's about it. A gun might allow you to save your life but it's not going to secure you from any kind of rogue government.

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Bush_Wacker
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Jun. 25, 2011 6:53 am

#12, i wish you luck with your second amendment against a dictatorship,don`t you see the world news? Dictatorships fail due to outside pressure or they self destruct. PS a lot of world resistance is turning in their guns and putting on "bomb vest's".

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tayl44
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I had noticed in the "Arab spring" during the fall of Egypt's government the use of lots of civil disobedience. In fact, to stave off tanks, people would put themselves in front of the tanks so that if those tanks moved, those people would have been killed. The Egyptians are using civil protest and civil disobedience to this day.

Unfortunately, the People in Lybia relied on violent rebellion to overthrow their "government."

I guess that both armed rebellion and civil resistance work, but for the most part, which one works the most depends on who you talk to.

micahjr34
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Feb. 7, 2011 3:57 pm

http://www.brotherjohnf.com is part of a rightwing transmitter belt of the kind of disinformation Right-wing pro-gun extremists ideologues are spreading over the internet. The second video claims there were multiple shooters at the Sandy Hook school and a vast government conspiracy. Notice in the second video at 4:13 minutes uploaded to Youtube by “idahopicker” displays a screenshot of a fake Facebook page of Adam Lanza with a red arrow pointing to the text “Political Views: Anarchist Communism.

This is a stupid attempt to label the shooter as a political extremist. It turns out that the shooter Adam Lanza had no Facebook, or Twitter accounts. That Facebook page displayed by idahopicker is a complete fake designed to direct attention from their own unAmerican extremism based on a stupid insurrectionist interpretation of the Second Amendment.

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Antifascist
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Mica, one solution don`t fit all? I think we have people in our ruling class, would have no problem nuking American citizens, how do we deal with them? Anti, one would hope progressive media would do what you`re doing in exposing all the disinformation propaganda by the extreme rightwing. Thom, anybody paying attention? We don`t counter this stuff,we will pay for it later,dealing with the people who have been brain wash by this evil garbage.They can and should be our "Friends"!

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tayl44
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Guns Don't Kill People, People with Guns Do

Myth: Guns don't kill people, people do.

(more)

miksilvr
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Jul. 7, 2011 11:13 am

The only thing that can stop the "angels of death" NRA is they`re "partners with all the killing". They make it easy for killers to get guns by not caring who they are,"the moral say they`re responsible"! THEY`RE ANGELS OF DEATH! Any politician that support them is, "partners with the killers"!

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tayl44
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Time for $10,000 gun license stamp per gun. Also, any person convicted of a violent crime, both felony and misdemeanor levels, should be prohibited from even touching a gun. So if you beat up your wife or girl friend....

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Antifascist
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Quote Antifascist:and even threatened to kill the President, and actually shot a Democratic politician—Gabrielle Giffords.

If I recall the shooter was a crazed conspiracy nut who frequented conspiracy sites.

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gumball
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Dec. 12, 2013 10:02 am
Quote Bush_Wacker:

Do you really think that civilians with arms could do anything in response to a dictatorial government? That whole meme needs to be filed in the Smithsonian for historical purposes.

No, your right to gun ownership is for self protection and that's about it. A gun might allow you to save your life but it's not going to secure you from any kind of rogue government.

You are sooo naive.

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Kilosqrd
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Sep. 5, 2014 2:22 am
Quote Antifascist:

Time for $10,000 gun license stamp per gun.

Brilliant...NOT. What other fees can we charge in order to exercise our Constitutional rights? How about $1000 per head to peacefully assemble with our friends? Oh, and find me the criminal who is going to fork over $10,000 for a firearm he illegally obtained in the first place.

And you wonder why intelligent folks laugh at you.

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Kilosqrd
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Back in the bad old days we used to buy pot in bulk of about 2 1/4 pounds at a time and divide it into lids. We called that bulk buy a 'key', which was short for a kilogram.

And kilo your handle is apt, just one big bag of dope squared.

rs allen
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Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

Timely resurrection of this blog by Antifacist. Thanks.

Mightn't we shed a tear, a thought, for the nine lives taken away, for their families, their friends? Or is it: "Shit, man. That don't matter. What counts is my rights. Gimme a gun, gimme some drones." A great country, the USA.

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Alberto Ceras 2
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Quote rs allen:

Back in the bad old days we used to buy pot in bulk of about 2 1/4 pounds at a time and divide it into lids. We called that bulk buy a 'key', which was short for a kilogram.

And kilo your handle is apt, just one big bag of dope squared.

Oh my, take me to the burn ward. Ha Ha

Since you are clearly clueless rs, you can return to your bong.

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Kilosqrd
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Sep. 5, 2014 2:22 am

We also sometimes would refer to kilo's as bricks. Bricks are right next to a box of rocks in smartness.

So kilo what do you prefer we call you now 'dope squared'? Or 'brick'?

rs allen
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Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

Are you obsessed with name calling? A clear sign of immaturity.

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Kilosqrd
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Quote Antifascist:

Gun Nuts Spew Hatred of Schools and Teachers Too. Remember George Bush’s Education Chief calling teachers union 'terrorist organization'. This is the same political base that shows up at presidential events with automatic weapons to intimidate their political opponents with eliminationist rhetoric, and even threatened to kill the President, and actually shot a Democratic politician—Gabrielle Giffords.

The guy in the CNN link you provided, "Chris from Arizona", is black. And I think, though, I'm not positive, that his gun was a semi-automatic AR-15. You really need to check your facts and your links.

The alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, didn't really have a political ideology. Also, he killed a federal Judge who was presumably a Republican since he was appointed by G.W. Bush.

Quote Antifascist:

And it is the same political ideologues that are spreading false information about the Sandy Hook murder suicide by creating pseudo Facebook pages and taking ordinary media reporting errors as evidence of a government conspiracy to outlaw guns. Here is an example of Right-Wingnut propaganda about the school murders.

The most prominent promoter of the position that Sandy Hook was a hoax is Dr. James Fetzer. He is a retired college professor and former Marine Core Officer. He is also a liberal, with the exception of being a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

And I agree with Thom’s rejection of Whack-A-Doodle language that talks of “Gun rights,” “Assault weapons,” instead of automatic military weapons, and “Mass murder” instead of murder-suicide. The Howling at the Moon Gun Nuts’ tortured interpretation of the Second Amendment is pure stupidity and it's time to stop listening to them.

Quote Antifascist:

I had enough of “tragedy porn” in the media. That is why I cancelled my cable TV subscription. Cable TV media glorifies weapons and right-wing hate groups like the Discovery Channel Sons of Guns and gun psychopaths like Ted Nugent. Cable News media explodes tragedy, disseminates disinformation, and then charges you for the propaganda. Stop financially supporting this domestic enemy!

Kudos to you for cancelling cable. What exactly is a gun psychopath?

Quote Antifascist:

Gun owners should have to purchase every year a “Gun stamp” for each gun owned at the price of $10,000 per gun stamp. You can still legally own a gun, but you must purchase a regulation gun stamp just like you have to purchase a car registration. After all, the US Constitution text says, “well regulated” militia.

Let’s start playing the Right-Wing Republican’s game like they play with everyone else.

Should one have to get a stamp to exercise their right to free speech that is protected by the 1st Amendment? If one has a right to do something, then the gov't can infringe on it in any way. You do realized that "well-regulated" in the 18th Century doesn't having anything to do with economic regulation as we understand it today?

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LysanderSpooner
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Antifascist:

Time for $10,000 gun license stamp per gun. Also, any person convicted of a violent crime, both felony and misdemeanor levels, should be prohibited from even touching a gun. So if you beat up your wife or girl friend....

What about after you get out of prison or are off probation? Once you pay your debt to society, shoudn't all of your rights be restored?

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LysanderSpooner
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Kilosqrd:

Are you obsessed with name calling? A clear sign of immaturity.

Kilo,

That's pretty much the most common form of debate for many progressives.

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LysanderSpooner
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

In Sweden a key is called a nickel, so kilo is only worth half a dime bag, as far as I'm concerned.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Kilo's Anthem

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douglaslee
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Quote Alberto Ceras 2:

Timely resurrection of this blog by Antifacist. Thanks.

Mightn't we shed a tear, a thought, for the nine lives taken away, for their families, their friends? Or is it: "Shit, man. That don't matter. What counts is my rights. Gimme a gun, gimme some drones." A great country, the USA.

Alberto, renew your passport, life is great out of the sewer.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Metaphors are not name calling. A brick is important to many structures. Now a brick does need to be nice to a mason to get laid, and some only lay bricks with gloves, but some gloves are suede and bricks might have a leather fetish, especially since some masons are women now.

rs, getting laid by a woman in leather actually pegs kilo quite well imo.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Amazing! We actually have gotten some of spooner's very own spoonerisms without him resorting to endless quotes from some long dead discredited author or another. Kudos spooner, keep up the good work!

Yeah Doug, bricks are too useful to be relegated to the box of rocks. I prefer dope squared. Shall we put it up for a vote? Or leave it up to kilo to decide?

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm
The guy in the CNN link you provided, "Chris from Arizona", is black. And I think, though, I'm not positive, that his gun was a semi-automatic AR-15. You really need to check your facts and your links.

What a minute, you said I should “check your facts,” “I think” and “I’m not positive.” Great example! The AR-15 was originally manufactured as a battlefield select mode weapon meaning it can operate both as automatic and semi-automatic. The domestic civilian version is modified to be only semiautomatic, but there are black market kits that can convert them to automatic. To call them “automatic” weapons is not an error. Whether the particular gunman had his weapon modified, or even loaded is far from my main argument…but keep trying.

And the race of the gun holder, Chris, is irrelevant, but notice the interviewer was White and also carrying a firearm so it was a total media stunt.

LS wrote…

The alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, didn't really have a political ideology. Also, he killed a federal Judge who was presumably a Republican since he was appointed by G.W. Bush.

Loughner was mentally ill, but he also picked up the eliminationist rhetoric that the Right-Wing consistently engages in. Glen Beck in particular begged on his TV show for someone to “do something,” and Beck said, “They believe in communism. They believe and have called for a revolution. You're going to have to shoot them in the head. But warning, they may shoot you.”

Glenn Beck: 'You're going to have to shoot them in the head,' and assorted other instances of violent rhetoric

And this same rhetoric was used leading up to Gifford’s shooting.

Eliminationist rhetoric and the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords: There were plenty of precursors

So to excuse Lougher as not being a political ideologue assumes that one has to be a political ideologue to engage in political assassination. And by the way, the recent Dylann Roof shooting was also a political assassination of Senator Clementa Pinckney.

The aim of modern propaganda is no longer to modify ideas, but to provoke action. It is no longer to change adherence to a doctrine, but to make the individual cling irrationally to a process of action. It is no longer to lead to a choice, but to loosen the reflexes.( Ellul, Jacques.Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes, Trans. Konrad Kellen and Jean Lerner. New York: Knopf, 1966. 25-26.)
Stochastic terrorism (from the Greek στόχος for aim or guess) is the use of mass communications to stir up random lone wolves to carry out violent or terrorist acts that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable.

This is what occurs when Bin Laden releases a video that stirs random extremists halfway around the globe to commit a bombing or shooting.

This is also the proper term for what Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity, and others do. And this is what led directly and predictably to a number of cases of ideologically-motivated murder similar to the Tucson shootings.

Terror in Arizona: Just another 'isolated incident'? Funny how that list keeps mounting

-- July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how "liberals" are "destroying America," walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

-- October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

-- December 2008: A pair of "Patriot" movement radicals -- the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted "to attack the political infrastructure" -- threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

-- December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear "dirty bomb" in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

-- January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

-- February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

-- April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

-- April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama's purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

-- May 2009: A "sovereign citizen" named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

-- June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

-- February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one "domestic terrorism" too.)

-- March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

-- March 2010: An anti-government extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.

-- May 2010: A "sovereign citizen" from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

-- May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

-- May 2010: Two "sovereign citizens" named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

-- July 2010: An agitated right-winger and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepted by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.

-- September 2010: A Concord, N.C., man is arrested and charged with plotting to blow up a North Carolina abortion clinic. The man, 26-year--old Justin Carl Moose, referred to himself as the "Christian counterpart to (Osama) bin Laden” in a taped undercover meeting with a federal informant.

LS wrote…

The most prominent promoter of the position that Sandy Hook was a hoax is Dr. James Fetzer. He is a retired college professor and former Marine Core Officer. He is also a liberal, with the exception of being a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

Fetzer has involved himself in every conspiracy theory back to JFK and has ended up on Alex Jones’ radio program that one can argue is really the most prominent promoter of that Sandy Hook hoax propaganda. And there is no evidence that Fetzer is “Liberal.” That is just nonsense. Fetzer is a holocaust denier, so I would add that to the “exception” list as a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

LS wrote these additional Spoonerisms...

Should one have to get a stamp to exercise their right to free speech that is protected by the 1st Amendment? If one has a right to do something, then the gov't can infringe on it in any way. You do realized that "well-regulated" in the 18th Century doesn't having anything to do with economic regulation as we understand it today

Speech is already regulated and your stamp argument for speech is committing the Fallacy of the Slippery Slope. Hey, I noticed you and Dylann Roof agree on the evils of “big government.” Dylann Roof is a true Libertarian and supports the Confederate States of America: Suspected Charleston terrorist backed apartheid states — including the Confederacy. I believe that gun stamps are an excellent regulating tool and it has nothing to do with economics, but rather public safety. Also, you are assuming the “Originalist” interpretation of the Constitution which until recently was only held by Right-Wingers that howled at the moon.

And yes, congratulations for coming up with your own wrongheaded Spoonerisms!

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Antifascist:
The guy in the CNN link you provided, "Chris from Arizona", is black. And I think, though, I'm not positive, that his gun was a semi-automatic AR-15. You really need to check your facts and your links.

What a minute, you said I should “check your facts,” “I think” and “I’m not positive.” Great example! The AR-15 was originally manufactured as a battlefield select mode weapon meaning it can operate both as automatic and semi-automatic. The domestic civilian version is modified to be only semiautomatic, but there are black market kits that can convert them to automatic. To call them “automatic” weapons is not an error. Whether the particular gunman had his weapon modified, or even loaded is far from my main argument…but keep trying.

You stated that it was automatic. I only said "I think" because I posted quickly and didn't want to make a statement I wasn't 100% sure about. Now you are conceding that the civilian version is not but that it could have been if it had been modified. What you are saying is that this man was open carrying a rifle that maybe was illegal in the presence of the Phoenix PD. In addition, machine guns, which are automatic, aren't illegal.

Quote Antifascist:

And the race of the gun holder, Chris, is irrelevant, but notice the interviewer was White and also carrying a firearm so it was a total media stunt.

It is relevant when you are trying to accuse others of racism. The interviewer, Ernie Hancock, freely admitted to Rick Sanchez that the open carry "protest" was pre-planned and the Phoenix PD was notified.

LS wrote…

The alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, didn't really have a political ideology. Also, he killed a federal Judge who was presumably a Republican since he was appointed by G.W. Bush.
Quote Antifascist:

Loughner was mentally ill, but he also picked up the eliminationist rhetoric that the Right-Wing consistently engages in. Glen Beck in particular begged on his TV show for someone to “do something,” and Beck said, “They believe in communism. They believe and have called for a revolution. You're going to have to shoot them in the head. But warning, they may shoot you.”

Glenn Beck: 'You're going to have to shoot them in the head,' and assorted other instances of violent rhetoric

And this same rhetoric was used leading up to Gifford’s shooting.

Eliminationist rhetoric and the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords: There were plenty of precursors

So to excuse Lougher as not being a political ideologue assumes that one has to be a political ideologue to engage in political assassination. And by the way, the recent Dylann Roof shooting was also a political assassination of Senator Clementa Pinckney.

You are speculating about Loughner. You don't know why he did it. And as you know, I reject the concept of mental illness. I believe in free will. Lougher, if he did it, should be put in prison. You are not going to get me to defend Beck. He's the same guy who called Ron Paul supporters terrorists.

Quote Antifascist:

LS wrote…

The most prominent promoter of the position that Sandy Hook was a hoax is Dr. James Fetzer. He is a retired college professor and former Marine Core Officer. He is also a liberal, with the exception of being a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

Fetzer has involved himself in every conspiracy theory back to JFK and has ended up on Alex Jones’ radio program that one can argue is really the most prominent promoter of that Sandy Hook hoax propaganda. And there is no evidence that Fetzer is “Liberal.” That is just nonsense. Fetzer is a holocaust denier, so I would add that to the “exception” list as a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

Do you accept the findings of the Warren Commission? Jones doesn't spend too much time promoting the idea that Sandy Hook was a hoax. Fetzer does. There are others. Why don't you listen to some of Fetzer's shows on the topic before you dismiss it. Fetzer supports revision of the official holocaust story. So what? He's a scholar. Is the Holocaust off limits to inquiry? Incidentally, Fetzer was a supporter of Paul Wellstone, who was assassinated. He even co-authored a book about it with an American Indian named four arrows. Are you going to tell me that Wellstone wasn't a liberal?

Quote Antifascist:

LS wrote these additional Spoonerisms...

Should one have to get a stamp to exercise their right to free speech that is protected by the 1st Amendment? If one has a right to do something, then the gov't can infringe on it in any way. You do realized that "well-regulated" in the 18th Century doesn't having anything to do with economic regulation as we understand it today

Speech is already regulated

So.The fact that it is regulated doesn't mean it should be, does it?

What interpretation of the Constitution do you support? Why do you resort to name calling?

LysanderSpooner's picture
LysanderSpooner
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Antifascist:

Time for $10,000 gun license stamp per gun. Also, any person convicted of a violent crime, both felony and misdemeanor levels, should be prohibited from even touching a gun. So if you beat up your wife or girl friend....

We should just prohibit murder.

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gumball
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Dec. 12, 2013 10:02 am

LS wrote…

It is relevant when you are trying to accuse others of racism. The interviewer, Ernie Hancock, freely admitted to Rick Sanchez that the open carry "protest" was pre-planned and the Phoenix PD was notified

This is a good example of your intellectual dishonesty. Your first sentence was, “The guy in the CNN link you provided, "Chris from Arizona", is black.” Somehow you wanted to imply that this particular open carry protest was a biracial event including Africa Americans. I said Chris’ race is irrelevant because the entire open carry protest was staged and the interviewer deliberately focused on Chris to reinforce this false perception. Now you admit it offhandedly after I pointed out the interviewer himself was carrying a firearm that the interview was staged.

LS wrote…

In addition, machine guns, which are automatic, aren't illegal.

That’s right, in some states you have to get a gun stamp for fully enabled automatic weapons.

You are speculating about Loughner. You don't know why he did it. And as you know, I reject the concept of mental illness. I believe in free will.

No, the courts declared him mentally incompetent to stand trial. Loughner is a paranoid schizophrenic and it is an inherited genetic disease, effecting mainly white males in their early twenties, that runs in families, but it can also be induced in anyone by a traumatic injury to the brain like in a traffic accident. Paranoid schizophrenics are typically non-violent, but when they are violent FBI profilers categorize them a “disorganized killers,” and can be identified just by analyzing the crime scene.

You are completely misinterpreting the work of Thomas Szasz who acknowledges that Alzheimer is a mental disease. I also believe in free will. You may believe in free will, but only because it is a doctrinal article of faith of Libertarianism; however, you cannot effectively logically defend it. Dr. Szasz’s critique of mental illness is directed at how mental illness is understood methodologically and treated in the United States, and his criticism is not without merit. Please don’t vandalize his body of academic work with your post hoc arguments trying to save yourself from looking like a dumb ass.

Fetzer supports revision of the official holocaust story. So what? He's a scholar. Is the Holocaust off limits to inquiry.

Holocaust denial propaganda is a favorite past time of White Supremacists. Fetzer is a quack, and if it quacks like a duck….

Fetzer was a supporter of Paul Wellstone, who was assassinated. He even co-authored a book about it with an American Indian named four arrows. Are you going to tell me that Wellstone wasn't a liberal?

Many scholars wrote books on the assassination of the Liberal JFK, so are we to conclude that these authors are all Liberals? Another absurd Spoonerism.

LS wrote…

So. The fact that it [speech] is regulated doesn't mean it should be, does it.

In this case yes, because it is a danger to public safety to yell “Fire!” in a crowed theater.

What interpretation of the Constitution do you support?

I support the “Living Constitution” method of interpretation. The Purposive Interpretation In Law (2005) by Dr. Aharon Barak presents this interpretive methodology of the Constitution. Originalism is adhered to even when it contradicts the constitution’s text. Scalia is a student of a kind of Constitutional Scholasticism. The Latin word “scholasticus” means “that which belongs to the school.” Scholasticism has the tendency to transforming from a school in search of the truth to the Truth itself. The Medieval Scholastics would be asked, “How many teeth are in a horse’s mouth?” They would then search all the ancient texts of Plato to find every reference to a horse to find the answer until one day someone said, “Let’s look in a horse’s mouth and count them.” That is when scholasticism ends.

Legal theorists have argued that Originalism ignores the obvious relation between the law and society’s political power structure. Legal rules are applied without regard to the real complexes of society that include structural inequalities of classes and the historical context that social behavior is acted out. These factors cannot be subtracted from the application of law. Such abstract formalism is dangerous as exemplified by the Originalist German judges failure to stem the rise of totalitarianism in Germany during the 1930s. Law is politics, and legal decisions are also political decisions. Historically, the law has advanced the interests of the wealthy elites by subordinating the interests of the women, minorities, the poor, and the working class. An Originalist reading of the constitution intrinsically reinforces the historic acceptance of slavery and denial of women’s rights.

Taking into account society’s complexity, history, diversity, social structure, and system of cultural values, interpreting constitutional law is portrayed by Originalists as “judicial activism” since a judge can overrule any law as unconstitutional. This is not just an issue of interpretation methodology, but of the judge’s role and duty to protect the Constitutional law that represents other implied values. The exercise of judicial discretion does not necessarily lead to chaos and abuse of power just as judicial inaction does not necessarily mean sound neutral judicial judgment. The effort to avoid “judicial activism” is itself taking into account the hypothetical consequences of judicial decisions and does not automatically negate the judge’s political intentions, but instead merely conceals, or masks them.

LS wrote…

Why do you resort to name calling?

If it quacks like a duck….

Antifascist's picture
Antifascist
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

/nra-mass-shootings-south-carolina- are the fault of the parisioners. You see they weren't carrying guns that could've stopped the shooter, so they had it coming.

Maybe a building code requirement similar to requirement for fire extinguishers could get a loaded 45 behind glass mounted throughout the church's pews and walls. "In case of mass shooter, break glass"*.

*wouldn't every shooting in a catholic church during a sermon be a mass shooting? Just thinking....

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

BRAVO, Antifascist! You hit it: whack-a-doodle interpretations of the Second Amendment! They've mangled it beyond recognition with their stupid rhetoric. These fucking gun nuts can shove that thing up their asses, because I've heard my fill of their bullshit.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland
Joined:
Mar. 10, 2011 9:42 am
Quote Aliceinwonderland:

BRAVO, Antifascist! You hit it: whack-a-doodle interpretations of the Second Amendment! They've mangled it beyond recognition with their stupid rhetoric. These fucking gun nuts can shove that thing up their asses, because I've heard my fill of their bullshit.

OH, the ironing.

"If I was one of them, I'd have to re-think my "no guns" policy. When they can't take "No" for an answer, that might be the only language those oligarchs and there flunkies understand. - AIW

" http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/telliottmbamsc/blog/2015/01/corruption...

Dexterous's picture
Dexterous
Joined:
Apr. 9, 2013 8:35 am
Quote Antifascist:

LS wrote…

It is relevant when you are trying to accuse others of racism. The interviewer, Ernie Hancock, freely admitted to Rick Sanchez that the open carry "protest" was pre-planned and the Phoenix PD was notified

This is a good example of your intellectual dishonesty. Your first sentence was, “The guy in the CNN link you provided, "Chris from Arizona", is black.” Somehow you wanted to imply that this particular open carry protest was a biracial event including Africa Americans. I said Chris’ race is irrelevant because the entire open carry protest was staged and the interviewer deliberately focused on Chris to reinforce this false perception. Now you admit it offhandedly after I pointed out the interviewer himself was carrying a firearm that the interview was staged.

I didn't imply anything. The fact is that the guy with the semi-automatic rifle (not automatic) is black. His presence kind of weakens your argument. As I said, Ernie Hancock freely admitted that the event was staged. He never hid anything.

Quote Antifascist:

LS wrote…

In addition, machine guns, which are automatic, aren't illegal.

That’s right, in some states you have to get a gun stamp for fully enabled automatic weapons.

Correct. That is the current law. I happen to think that the law is unconstitutional. No adult human being, citizen or not, should be prevented from buying any firearm they want.

Quote Antifascist:
You are speculating about Loughner. You don't know why he did it. And as you know, I reject the concept of mental illness. I believe in free will.

No, the courts declared him mentally incompetent to stand trial. Loughner is a paranoid schizophrenic and it is an inherited genetic disease, effecting mainly white males in their early twenties, that runs in families, but it can also be induced in anyone by a traumatic injury to the brain like in a traffic accident. Paranoid schizophrenics are typically non-violent, but when they are violent FBI profilers categorize them a “disorganized killers,” and can be identified just by analyzing the crime scene.

I don't accept that schizophrenia is a real disease. I disagree with the premise of your argument.

Quote Antifascist:

You are completely misinterpreting the work of Thomas Szasz who acknowledges that Alzheimer is a mental disease.

Incorrect. Alzheimers is a brain disease. Szasz never denied the existence of brain diseases. Brain diseases are the province of neurologists.

Quote Antifascist:I also believe in free will. You may believe in free will, but only because it is a doctrinal article of faith of Libertarianism; however, you cannot effectively logically defend it. Dr. Szasz’s critique of mental illness is directed at how mental illness is understood methodologically and treated in the United States, and his criticism is not without merit. Please don’t vandalize his body of academic work with your post hoc arguments trying to save yourself from looking like a dumb ass.

Thomas Szasz's Summary Statement and Manifesto

  1. "Myth of mental illness." Mental illness is a metaphor (metaphorical disease). The word "disease" denotes a demonstrable biological process that affects the bodies of living organisms (plants, animals, and humans). The term "mental illness" refers to the undesirable thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of persons. Classifying thoughts, feelings, and behaviors as diseases is a logical and semantic error, like classifying the whale as a fish. As the whale is not a fish, mental illness is not a disease. Individuals with brain diseases (bad brains) or kidney diseases (bad kidneys) are literally sick. Individuals with mental diseases (bad behaviors), like societies with economic diseases (bad fiscal policies), are metaphorically sick. The classification of (mis)behavior as illness provides an ideological justification for state-sponsored social control as medical treatment.
  2. Separation of Psychiatry and the State. If we recognize that "mental illness" is a metaphor for disapproved thoughts, feelings, and behaviors, we are compelled to recognize as well that the primary function of Psychiatry is to control thought, mood, and behavior. Hence, like Church and State, Psychiatry and the State ought to be separated by a "wall." At the same time, the State ought not to interfere with mental health practices between consenting adults. The role of psychiatrists and mental health experts with regard to law, the school system, and other organizations ought to be similar to the role of clergymen in those situations.
  3. Presumption of competence. Because being accused of mental illness is similar to being accused of crime, we ought to presume that psychiatric "defendants" are mentally competent, just as we presume that criminal defendants are legally innocent. Individuals charged with criminal, civil, or interpersonal offenses ought never to be treated as incompetent solely on the basis of the opinion of mental health experts. Incompetence ought to be a judicial determination and the "accused" ought to have access to legal representation and a right to trial by jury.
  4. Abolition of involuntary mental hospitalization. Involuntary mental hospitalization is imprisonment under the guise of treatment; it is a covert form of social control that subverts the rule of law. No one ought to be deprived of liberty except for a criminal offense, after a trial by jury guided by legal rules of evidence. No one ought to be detained against his will in a building called "hospital," or in any other medical institution, or on the basis of expert opinion. Medicine ought to be clearly distinguished and separated from penology, treatment from punishment, the hospital from the prison. No person ought to be detained involuntarily for a purpose other than punishment or in an institution other than one formally defined as a part of the state's criminal justice system.
  5. Abolition of the insanity defense. Insanity is a legal concept involving the courtroom determination that a person is not capable of forming conscious intent and, therefore, cannot be held responsible for an otherwise criminal act. The opinions of experts about the "mental state" of defendants ought to be inadmissible in court, exactly as the opinions of experts about the "religious state" of defendants are inadmissible. No one ought to be excused of lawbreaking or any other offense on the basis of so-called expert opinion rendered by psychiatric or mental health experts. Excusing a person of responsibility for an otherwise criminal act on the basis of inability to form conscious intent is an act of legal mercy masquerading as an act of medical science. Being merciful or merciless toward lawbreakers is a moral and legal matter, unrelated to the actual or alleged expertise of medical and mental health professionals.
  6. In 1798, Americans were confronted with the task of abolishing slavery, peacefully and without violating the rights of others. They refused to face that daunting task and we are still paying the price of their refusal. In 1998, we Americans are faced with the task of abolishing psychiatric slavery, peacefully and without violating the rights of others. We accept that task and are committed to working for its successful resolution. As Americans before us have eventually replaced involuntary servitude (chattel slavery) with contractual relations between employers and employees, we seek to replace involuntary psychiatry (psychiatric slavery) with contractual relations between care givers and clients.

Thomas Szasz March 1998

Quote Antifascist:

Fetzer supports revision of the official holocaust story. So what? He's a scholar. Is the Holocaust off limits to inquiry.

Holocaust denial propaganda is a favorite past time of White Supremacists. Fetzer is a quack, and if it quacks like a duck….

Fetzer isn't a White Supremacist. He is a scholar. He is the McKnight Professor of Philosophy Emeritus, U. of Minnesota- Duluth, author/editor of several books and founder of Scholars for 911 Truth.

Quote Antifascist:
Fetzer was a supporter of Paul Wellstone, who was assassinated. He even co-authored a book about it with an American Indian named four arrows. Are you going to tell me that Wellstone wasn't a liberal?

Many scholars wrote books on the assassination of the Liberal JFK, so are we to conclude that these authors are all Liberals? Another absurd Spoonerism.

Can you read? He was a supporter of Wellstone. He even supported Obama in 2008. Most of the authors of JFK books are actually liberal JFK Democrats.

Quote Antifascist:

LS wrote…

So. The fact that it [speech] is regulated doesn't mean it should be, does it.

In this case yes, because it is a danger to public safety to yell “Fire!” in a crowed theater.

It is a danger to falsely yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. Besides, that famous pronoucement by Holmes is not a free speech matter. It is a property rights and contract matter. The theatre is private property. By buying a ticket, you implicitly enter into a contract with the theatre owner. If you falsely yell "Fire!", you are breaking your contract.

"

Consider the classic case where "freedom of speech" is supposed to be curbed in "the public in­terest": Justice Holmes’ famous dictum that there is no right to cry "fire" in a crowded theater. Holmes and his followers have used this illustration over and over to proclaim the supposed necessity for rights to be relative and tentative rather than abso­lute and eternal.

But let us further analyze this problem. The fellow who brings on a riot by falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is, neces­sarily, either the owner of the theater or a paying patron. If he is the owner, then he has com­mitted fraud on his customers. He has taken their money in ex­change for a promise to put on a movie; and now, instead, he dis­rupts the movie by falsely shout­ing "fire" and breaking up the performance. He has thus welshed on this contractual obligation, in violation of the property rights of his patrons.

Suppose, on the other hand, that the shouter is a patron and not the owner. In that case, he is vio­lating the owner’s property right. As a guest, he has access to the property on certain terms, includ­ing an obligation not to violate the owner’s property or disrupt the performance that the owner is putting on for his guests. His malicious act, therefore, violates the property rights of the theater owner and of all other patrons. If we consider the problem in terms of property rights instead of the vague and woolly human right of free speech, we see that there is no conflict and no neces­sity of limiting or abridging rights in any way.

The rights of the individual are still eternal and absolute; but they are property rights. The fellow who maliciously cries "fire" in a crowded theater is a criminal, not because his so-called right of free speech must be pragmatically restricted on behalf of the "public good"; he is a criminal because he has clearly and obviously violated the prop­erty right of another person." Human Rights are Property Rights by Murray Rothbard.

Quote Antifascist:
What interpretation of the Constitution do you support?

I support the “Living Constitution” method of interpretation.

A living constitution is a dead constitution.

Original Intent, Original Understanding, Original Meaning

Quote Antifascist:

LS wrote…

Why do you resort to name calling?

If it quacks like a duck….

Saying something is whack-a-doodle or saying your opponents howl at the moon is not an argument.

LysanderSpooner's picture
LysanderSpooner
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

LS wrote...

I didn't imply anything. The fact is that the guy with the semi-automatic rifle (not automatic) is black. His presence kind of weakens your argument.

That is exactly what I said you were implying. You really need to work on that contradiction thingy (sic).

Oh, and now you are sure the rifle is semi-automatic after earlier saying, "And I think, though, I'm not positive, that his gun was a semi-automatic AR-15." You must of have some kind of evidence.

No adult human being, citizen or not, should be prevented from buying any firearm they want.

And thus the stupidity. Sounds “well regulated” to me.

I don't accept that schizophrenia is a real disease.

...as most schizophrenia are also skeptical.

Alzheimers is a brain disease. Szasz never denied the existence of brain diseases.

You still need to work on the contradiction thingy (sic). But what if we define all mental illness as varying levels of brain disease, but not all brain disease as mental illness?

Sazaz’s definition of Mental Illness…

"Myth of mental illness." Mental illness is a metaphor (metaphorical disease). The word "disease" denotes a demonstrable biological process that affects the bodies of living organisms (plants, animals, and humans). The term "mental illness" refers to the undesirable thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of persons.

A good distinction of definitions, but the term “mental illness” can also mean by definition “disease” as in disease of the brain. "Mental illness" language can be salvaged if we know its limitations and clarify its meaning. Even the word, "disease" means "without," "ease." Silly, isn't it? But, I don't deny the existence of disease. Taking any metaphor literally leads to methodological and ontological problems, but all scientific paradigms are really linked to the problem of analogy and its epistemological relation to logic. This is not a new issue, but goes back all the way to Aristotle (Analytica Posteriora). Aristotle wrote, “The paradigm does not confirm the part with respect to the whole, and not the whole with respect to the part, but it confirms its part with respect to the part.” Deduction infers from the universal to the particular. Induction infers from the particular to the universal, but paradigms go from the particular to the particular. However, one part is more “knowable” than the other. The fact that the language paradigm we use to talk about mental illness can be ontologically flawed, does mean mental illness doesn’t exist.

Giorgio Agamben. What is a Paradigm. 2002 3/10

Fetzer isn't a White Supremacist. He is a scholar. He is the McKnight Professor of Philosophy Emeritus, U. of Minnesota- Duluth, author/editor of several books and founder of Scholars for 911 Truth.

Arguments of Authority will not get you anywhere here. The KKK has lots of "scholars."

Quote LysanderSpooner:

LS wrote…

Dr. James Fetzer. He is a retired college professor and former Marine Core Officer. He is also a liberal, with the exception of being a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

…Fetzer was a supporter of Paul Wellstone, who was assassinated. He even co-authored a book about it with an American Indian named four arrows. Are you going to tell me that Wellstone wasn't a liberal?

Many scholars wrote books on the assassination of the Liberal JFK, so are we to conclude that these authors are all Liberals? Another absurd Spoonerism.

Quote LysanderSpooner:

Can you read? He was a supporter of Wellstone. He even supported Obama in 2008. Most of the authors of JFK books are actually liberal JFK Democrats.

“Most authors” is not “all authors.” Fetzer can call himself anything he wants, but what does it mean? If Fetzer is a Liberal who is also a holocaust denier, it doesn’t follow from the fact he wrote a book on JFK.

1. JFK is a Liberal

2. Fetzer wrote a book on JFK

:: Therefore, Fetzer is a Liberal.

LS wrote...

So. The fact that it [speech] is regulated doesn't mean it should be, does it…If you falsely yell "Fire!", you are breaking your contract.

In other words, speech is still regulated. Instead of basing the speech restriction on public safety laws you used a ridiculous Libertarian argument of property right contractualism—the point is that speech is still regulated and it should be. And I don’t remember any contract wording on my last movie ticket about yelling fire under any circumstances.

Justice Holmes’ famous dictum that there is no right to cry "fire" in a crowded theater.

Did you mean “falsely” cry fire in a crowded theater?

The fellow who brings on a riot by falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is, neces­sarily, either the owner of the theater or a paying patron.

Fallacy of Excluded Middle, it could be a mail delivery man, or a malicious prankster.

If we consider the problem in terms of property rights instead of the vague and woolly human right of free speech, we see that there is no conflict and no neces­sity of limiting or abridging rights in any way.

But what if property rights are based on the same “vague and woolly” right as free speech? Doesn’t contractualism limit and abridge property rights “in any way?” Of course it does by your own examples. I do not accept the Libertarian collapsing by redefinition all rights into the single concept of property. This redefinition of rights is motivated by a factional political agenda. This is the Libertarian argument for an Oligarchic State, or a Timocracy, because it only recognizes property as a right while all others are relative and derivative.

LS wrote…

Saying something is whack-a-doodle or saying your opponents howl at the moon is not an argument

No, my arguments are in the above posts. But it is also a description of Originalism and Libertarian contractualism to justify an Oligarchic State.

Antifascist's picture
Antifascist
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

On a side note, denying the existence of mental illness, or identifying all behavior as a sign of mental disease are both wrongheaded. The fact that psychopathology has been used by totalitarian societies to label all antisocial behavior as a sign of mental illness doesn’t justify mental illness skepticism. Psychology, like are fields of study, can be used as an oppressive tool.

I just want to give a little salute to a Southern Confederate physicians that have contributed to the field of psychology and used their expertise in just this oppressive manner. Meet Louisiana physician Dr. Samuel Cartwright (1793 - 1863) who came upon a great discovery while trying to determine why slaves were running away from concentration camps…or I should use the politically correct term, “plantations.” This was a great mystery to the Southern doctor until he diagnosed a psychological disorder he identified as “Drapetomia,” or a disease of the mind causing the slave to run away. No sooner that he made this discovery greatly appreciated by the Southern plantation owners and Dr. Cartwright made another astounding discovery! Dysaethesia Aethiopica, which is better known as “Rascality.” In both cases, whipping was the therapeutic remedy. Interesting how science, law, and language often lines up with factional political interests.

The logic of both Dr. Cartwright’s psychopathology and of modern Libertarianism is to depoliticize all social ills by individualization. If slave behavior is seen as a mental disorder, then the institution of slavery escapes critical examination. If all social problems are seen as the result of individual responsibility then dysfunctional institutions become immune to criticism and change: the NeoLiberal corporate-state is free of accountability. To say, “I reject the concept of mental illness. I believe in free will,” has the same political effect in both cases of depoliticizing the public sphere and allow public institutions to writher from indifference. This is the hidden agenda behind all Libertarian talk about individual freedom.

An Early History - African American Mental Health

Scientific Racism

Benjamin Rush, MD (1746­1813), signer of the Declaration of Independence, Dean of the Medical School at the University of Pennsylvania and the "Father of American Psychiatry, "described Negroes as suffering from an affliction called Negritude, which was thought to be a mild form of leprosy. The only cure for the disorder was to become white. It is unclear as to how many cases of Negritude were successfully treated. The irony of Dr. Rush's medical observations was that he was a leading mental health reformer and co-founder of the first anti-slavery society in America. Dr. Rush's portrait still adorns the official seal of the American Psychiatric Association. However, Dr Rush's observation-"The Africans become insane, we are told, in some instances, soon after they enter upon the toils of perpetual slavery in the West Indies"-is not often cited in discussions of mental illness and African-Americans, how-ever valuable it might be in understanding the traumatic impact of enslavement and oppression on Africans and their descendants.

In1851, Dr. Samuel Cartwright, a prominent Louisiana physician and one of the leading authorities in his time on the medical care of Negroes, identified two mental disorders peculiar to slaves. Drapetomia, or the disease causing Negroes to run away, was noted as a condition, "unknown to our medical authorities, although its diagnostic symptom, the absconding from service, is well known to our planters and overseers. " Dr. Cartwright observed, "The cause in most cases, that induces the Negro to run 4 away from service, is such a disease of the mind as in any other species of alienation, and much more curable, as a general rule. " Cartwright was so helpful as to identify preventive measures for dealing with potential cases of drapetomania. Slaves showing incipient drapetomania, reflected in sulky and dissatisfied behavior should be whipped-strictly as a therapeutic early intervention. Planter and overseers were encouraged to utilize whipping as the primary intervention once the disease had progressed to the stage of actually running away. Overall, Cartwright suggested that Negroes should be kept in a submissive state and treated like children, with "care, kindness, attention and humanity, to prevent and cure them from running away. "

Dr. Cartwright also diagnosed Dysaethesia Aethiopica, or "hebetude of the mind and obtuse sensibility of the body-a disease peculiar to Negroes called by overseers-Rascality. " Dysethesia Aethiopica differed from other species of mental disease since physical signs and lesions accompanied it. The ever-resourceful Dr. Cartwright determined that whipping could also cure this disorder. Of course, one wonders if the whipping were not the cause of the "lesions" that confirmed the diagnosis. Not surprisingly, Dr. Cartwright was a leading thinker in the pro-slavery movement. Dr. Cartwright, in his article "Diseases and Peculiarities of the Negro Race, " chided his anti-slavery colleagues by noting "The northern physicians and people have noticed the symptoms, but not the disease from which they spring. They ignorantly attribute the symptoms to the debasing influence of slavery on the mind without considering that those who have never been in slavery, or their fathers before them, are the most afflicted, and the latest from the slave-holding south the least. The disease is the natural offspring of Negro liberty-the liberty to be idle, to wallow in filth, and to indulge in improper food and drinks. "

Article continues…

Antifascist's picture
Antifascist
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Reply to #37: Yes Dex, I did say that. Sometimes we are forced by circumstances to make exceptions. That’s a far cry from being a gun nut.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland
Joined:
Mar. 10, 2011 9:42 am

These fatalist fantasies based in systematic failure that would lead to a malevolent dictatorship in the US. The simplicity and fatal flaw in this would-be patriotic fantasy of fighting against the despotic government out to take their guns and liberties. A despot with superior air power could careless how many guns you have or how much ammo it could carry because when a government turns on its people the gloves come off. There would not be a direct military engagement. Guns auto, semi or single fire would be rendered useless in a one side slaughter raining down from the sky above.

If you are interested in keeping the US from becoming fascist or despotic. You would be much better served to fight for DEMOCRACY instead of bullet capacity and rate of fire. The 2nd Amendment has driven people in this country to the point of madness and self-delusion. The most important rights in this country are being scattered to the wind, and you (quoting the great Fred G Sanford) Big Dummies want to arm yourselves with weapons that can only make you a pariah to other citizens and no real threat to the established centers of power.

I believe we’ve lost something vital in this country or maybe we’ve always just had our delusions to keep us going, regardless, we’ve got to get our collective heads out of our asses and fight for democracy, and that aint going to happen through violence. This is not 1700’s, and arm resistance is not an option.

RichardofJeffersonCity's picture
RichardofJeffer...
Joined:
Jun. 23, 2011 10:31 am
Quote Antifascist:

On a side note, denying the existence of mental illness, or identifying all behavior as a sign of mental disease are both wrongheaded. The fact that psychopathology has been used by totalitarian societies to label all antisocial behavior as a sign of mental illness doesn’t justify mental illness skepticism. Psychology, like are fields of study, can be used as an oppressive tool.

I just want to give a little salute to a Southern Confederate physicians that have contributed to the field of psychology and used their expertise in just this oppressive manner. Meet Louisiana physician Dr. Samuel Cartwright (1793 - 1863) who came upon a great discovery while trying to determine why slaves were running away from concentration camps…or I should use the politically correct term, “plantations.” This was a great mystery to the Southern doctor until he diagnosed a psychological disorder he identified as “Drapetomia,” or a disease of the mind causing the slave to run away. No sooner that he made this discovery greatly appreciated by the Southern plantation owners and Dr. Cartwright made another astounding discovery! Dysaethesia Aethiopica, which is better known as “Rascality.” In both cases, whipping was the therapeutic remedy. Interesting how science, law, and language often lines up with factional political interests.

The logic of both Dr. Cartwright’s psychopathology and of modern Libertarianism is to depoliticize all social ills by individualization. If slave behavior is seen as a mental disorder, then the institution of slavery escapes critical examination. If all social problems are seen as the result of individual responsibility then dysfunctional institutions become immune to criticism and change: the NeoLiberal corporate-state is free of accountability. To say, “I reject the concept of mental illness. I believe in free will,” has the same political effect in both cases of depoliticizing the public sphere and allow public institutions to writher from indifference. This is the hidden agenda behind all Libertarian talk about individual freedom.

An Early History - African American Mental Health

Scientific Racism

Benjamin Rush, MD (1746­1813), signer of the Declaration of Independence, Dean of the Medical School at the University of Pennsylvania and the "Father of American Psychiatry, "described Negroes as suffering from an affliction called Negritude, which was thought to be a mild form of leprosy. The only cure for the disorder was to become white. It is unclear as to how many cases of Negritude were successfully treated. The irony of Dr. Rush's medical observations was that he was a leading mental health reformer and co-founder of the first anti-slavery society in America. Dr. Rush's portrait still adorns the official seal of the American Psychiatric Association. However, Dr Rush's observation-"The Africans become insane, we are told, in some instances, soon after they enter upon the toils of perpetual slavery in the West Indies"-is not often cited in discussions of mental illness and African-Americans, how-ever valuable it might be in understanding the traumatic impact of enslavement and oppression on Africans and their descendants.

In1851, Dr. Samuel Cartwright, a prominent Louisiana physician and one of the leading authorities in his time on the medical care of Negroes, identified two mental disorders peculiar to slaves. Drapetomia, or the disease causing Negroes to run away, was noted as a condition, "unknown to our medical authorities, although its diagnostic symptom, the absconding from service, is well known to our planters and overseers. " Dr. Cartwright observed, "The cause in most cases, that induces the Negro to run 4 away from service, is such a disease of the mind as in any other species of alienation, and much more curable, as a general rule. " Cartwright was so helpful as to identify preventive measures for dealing with potential cases of drapetomania. Slaves showing incipient drapetomania, reflected in sulky and dissatisfied behavior should be whipped-strictly as a therapeutic early intervention. Planter and overseers were encouraged to utilize whipping as the primary intervention once the disease had progressed to the stage of actually running away. Overall, Cartwright suggested that Negroes should be kept in a submissive state and treated like children, with "care, kindness, attention and humanity, to prevent and cure them from running away. "

Dr. Cartwright also diagnosed Dysaethesia Aethiopica, or "hebetude of the mind and obtuse sensibility of the body-a disease peculiar to Negroes called by overseers-Rascality. " Dysethesia Aethiopica differed from other species of mental disease since physical signs and lesions accompanied it. The ever-resourceful Dr. Cartwright determined that whipping could also cure this disorder. Of course, one wonders if the whipping were not the cause of the "lesions" that confirmed the diagnosis. Not surprisingly, Dr. Cartwright was a leading thinker in the pro-slavery movement. Dr. Cartwright, in his article "Diseases and Peculiarities of the Negro Race, " chided his anti-slavery colleagues by noting "The northern physicians and people have noticed the symptoms, but not the disease from which they spring. They ignorantly attribute the symptoms to the debasing influence of slavery on the mind without considering that those who have never been in slavery, or their fathers before them, are the most afflicted, and the latest from the slave-holding south the least. The disease is the natural offspring of Negro liberty-the libTerty to be idle, to wallow in filth, and to indulge in improper food and drinks. "

Article continues…

Szasz, in one of his books, was very critical of Benjamin Rush. In this video, he also mentions "drapetomania". You are making my point how psychiatry is not a legitimate medical enterprise but a method of social control.

Here is an article called Essence or Existence: The Problem of Psychiatry-Schizophrenia.

Here's a website dedicated to him and his work.

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LysanderSpooner
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Hey, I have been critical of the field of psychology since B.F. Skinner and his Operant Behaviorism was the dominant school of thought.

Thanks for the links, and I will take a look at them.

Also, have you ever heard of the Rosenhan experiment ? The Stanford psychologist professor, Rosenhan, published in 1973 a report on his experiment to determine the ability of psychiatrists to diagnosis psychological disorders. He had eight of his students admit themselves as "pseudopatients" to 12 different psychiatric hospitals in five different States by temporarily feigning auditory hallucinations, but once in the hospital acted normally and reported to the hospital staff that they were fine. However, their reports were ignored and all but one were diagnosed with schizophrenia by hospital staff.

After the hospitals discovered that students were pseudopatients they challenged Rosenhan to send more pseudopatients and they would now be detected. After a number of weeks the hospital submitted a list of 43 patients they suspected of being sent by Rosenhan. In fact, he sent no person.

Two interesting details. At first the pseudopatients would hide their note taking from staff, but over time the students found the staff just ignored open note taking thinking it was a part of their psychological disorder. Also, the staff could not detect the pseudopatients, but other psychiatric patients immediately suspected the student patients as fakes. Also, Rosenhan himself was one of the pseudopatients.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote Aliceinwonderland:

Reply to #37: Yes Dex, I did say that. Sometimes we are forced by circumstances to make exceptions. That’s a far cry from being a gun nut.

So it is OK for lefties to grab guns and kill if they feel forced by circumstances to do so?

You wonder why I call you pinhead?

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Dexterous
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Apr. 9, 2013 8:35 am

Dexie Boy, considering the source, I'll take that as a compliment.

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Aliceinwonderland
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Mar. 10, 2011 9:42 am
Quote Kilosqrd:
Quote Bush_Wacker:

Do you really think that civilians with arms could do anything in response to a dictatorial government? That whole meme needs to be filed in the Smithsonian for historical purposes.

No, your right to gun ownership is for self protection and that's about it. A gun might allow you to save your life but it's not going to secure you from any kind of rogue government.

You are sooo naive.

Taking on the U.S. government with a show of "force," would result, very quickly, into you being transformed into a small, charred, pile of human tissue pudding...and I’d imagine the vultures would find the gun in there somewhere, afterward. Probably still fully loaded. Who’s the naïve one here?

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al3
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Tea Party gun nut kills kills two persons and injures nine others. John Houser was from Alabama and a member of a Southern Death Cult called, "The Republican Party."

Louisiana gunman was a 'radical Republican' and member of the 'Tea Party Nation'

[excerpt...]

...Looking deeper into the gunman shows his far right-wing political beliefs which he made clear across social media and on the local radio.

When 59-year-old John Russell Houser walked into the theater, firing at least 6 rounds, not many were even aware of what was going on around them. Within minutes the situation was over, with three people killed and nine others left injured. One of the three killed was Houser himself, who took his own life just moments after opening fire. One of the first witnesses to speak to the media was Katie Domingue, was described the shooter as an "older white man." Looking deeper into the background of Houser was Raw Story, who uncovered some disturbing details in a July 23 article about the man who was responsible for the massacre.

Scanning through his social media accounts, Houser was a right-wing conservative who had a deep seeded hatred for President Obama, liberals, and women. A member of the Tea Party Nation since June 2013, but not a frequent contributor, Houser appeared to be a fan of the "I hate liberals!" group on Facebook, one of only two "likes" associated with his account. Houser's profile included shared articles titled "How Modern Liberals Brainwash People Into Hating America," as well as referring to the United States as "financially failing filth farm." Houser's Twitter account also listed similar shared political information, with a tweet sent out reading, "If you don’t think the internet is censored, try reading a newspaper from a country that hates liberals the way I do."

Perhaps the most unsettling information revealed was his time as a frequent guest on a local Georgia radio show. Host Calvin Floyd described Houser as a "radical Republican" who had a major issue with women, as reported by the Washington Post.

"He was anti-abortion. The best I can recall, Rusty had an issue with feminine rights. He was opposed to women having a say in anything. You could talk with him a few minutes, and you would know he had a high IQ but there was a lot missing with him."

According to NBC News, the police had responded to multiple calls to Houser's home over the years, most notably in 2008 when he was described as a "mentally disturbed person." Houser applied for a concealed weapons permit in 2006, according to Russell County Sheriff Heath Taylor, but was denied his request because of a domestic violence complaint, in addition to being arrested in the past for arson. However, Houser was able to purchase a Hi-Point .40-caliber handgun at a pawn shop in Phenix City, Alabama, back in February of 2014.

Houser's shooting rampage is yet another example of the unfortunate result of gun violence in America. If Houser had access to better health care, wasn't consumed by the right-wing media, and the gun laws in Alabama were more regulated, maybe this tragedy could have been avoided.

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Antifascist
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

America: Meet Your Overlord Rupert Murdoch...

Thom plus logo The main lesson that we've learned so far from the impeachment hearings is that if Richard Nixon had had a billionaire like Rupert Murdoch with a television network like Fox News behind him, he never would've resigned and America would have continued to be presided over by a criminal.
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