Tea Party Threats Are Not Blackmail. They Are Extortionists! Add Hostage Takers!

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I answered you at #49 and again at #66. You are the one evading, but ofcourse that shouldn't surprise anyone. Where did you comment about the President changing legislation after passage? You said you did. It should be a simple matter to point out where you did so.

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mjolnir
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Quote mjolnir:Where did you comment about the President changing legislation after passage? You said you did. It should be a simple matter to point out where you did so.

Sorry, that was in a different thread and I didn't remember to look for it.

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/does-the-administration-have...

This MAY provide the legal justification for the waiver. According to this source Obama hasn't released a memo yet on its justification but the Treasury has. http://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Pages/Continuing-to-Implement-the-A...

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

Thanks.

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mjolnir
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Quote mjolnir:

I answered you at #49 and again at #66.

No you didn't. NOTHING in either of those posts backs up the claims you FIRST made to this thread in post 2: http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2013/10/tea-party-threats-are-not-blac...

I've been asking you to back up your claims made there since post 3:
http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2013/10/tea-party-threats-are-not-blac...

But of course, I'm being evasive.

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Pierpont
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Quote klb10:

And THAT gives government the RIGHT to mandate citizens to purchase a product? I don't think so, no more that government has a right to legislate morality.

Govt is mandating I buy auto insurance. Lenders mandate we have home owner insurance.

The status quo of our broken medical system was everyone receives care at the ER without regard to the ability to pay. I realize moochers and dirtbags like you like to get free ER care. But that required the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

Therefore the govt has found a way to improve the system's financing, saving the govt money, and simultaneously getting more than 50,000,000 Americans better healthcare and making healthcare more affordable for 275,000,000 Americans.

That seems moral to me. But good luck in 2014 selling "Vote for a Republican to take away your healthcare."

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Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

I don't understand what you mean. I lay blame on both sides for using (political) extortion but there is nothing immoral about it. Shutdowns are a political tool and completely constitutional.

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mjolnir
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Mar. 3, 2011 12:42 pm

So, using extortion is not immoral, and shutdowns are just another political tool?

So the President proclaiming the pro shutdown caucus are a "clear and present" threat and using Navy Seals or the Delta Force to arrest or kill the Koch Bros, the Heritage Foundation, all rightwing radio talkers, etc would be constutional right?

Or using the threat of a nuclear attack on Jerusalem in exchange for the Senate Democcrats budget is just a political tool right?

See, the problem with being an extortionist is it requires that the other side in the negotiation has no power to stop you, or is not willing to stop you.

So long as the "clear and present" language exists the President has other options.

So long as the 14th amendment allows the President to pay our bills the extortionists have no real claws.

So long as the treasury can mint billion $ coins we have options.

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Phaedrus76
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Everything except the 14Th Amend. comment is an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum" and you can engage in it if you want but I've got better things to do. This Congressional impasse is an exercise in political theatre and both sides engage in it. There is no morality involved in it.

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mjolnir
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I think we are all aware that "extortion" is measured by what the "patriots/traitors" are blockading things for. What is threatened matters, and if lots of innocents are going to be hurt by any "moral stand," it had better have some huge shining virtues inherent in its radicalism. For, what we are talking about are radical actions outside the normal course of business or process. That is what this use of "the power of the purse" is. It is not the normal course of governing. It is not "negotiating."

What confuses me about the GOPimp strategy is that they could have taken credit for Obama having to adopt "their" design, proving that they had been correct about health insurance, at least in their pr. Or, they could let Obama hang his own name on something they knew would be an Entitlement for Corporate Profits even if it did lower the exploitation to 20% overhead for what should be in the low single figures. Hey look, they could say, this Obamacare is costing us a ton! Blame the Dems!

They offer no alternative plan for health insurance affordability or how to cover the poor. They just want to defund and delay Obamacare to make Obama look like a failure. The only thing they have left to defend is "not losing" or appearing to do so. Why should Obama have to help them climb back off the ledge or give up anything to keep them from pulling the chord on their budget explosives? When did Presidential leadership get measured by the ability to make unruly children behave?

drc2
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Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm

The situation I was referring to was a friend of mine. I have not incurred any medical expenses that I have never not paid for. The last medical expenseS I incurred was a check up at the hospital where I paid UP FRONT for several blood tests, an EKG, sonogram on my internal organs and a chest Xray. ALL of which I paid for in cash up front and it cost less that $400.00. Everything looked good. So, you can call me a moocher and a dirtbag simply because you are an ignorant FOOL! The third party payer system with insurance companies pushing the most expensive patients and costly medical care off on the taxpayers is what has driven up the cost of medical care and made it unaffodable to the average citizen. Do you think the RICH or GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS OR POLITICANS ARE GOING TO SUFFER LIKE TAXPAYERS UNDER OBAMACARE? HA! Ignorant, gullible fool.

I will continue to refer to you as an ignorant fool because you by into the LIE that obamacare is going to doing anything to improve healthcare OR reduce its costs. The only thing obmamcare is going to do is hand health insurers millions more new customers to profit from and those insurance CEOs will still make their multi million dollar salaries and bonuses without ever seeing or financing ONE patient and put more burden on the taxpaying consumer that pays for his forced insurance premiums AND more taxes to finance the poor who cannot afford to pay money to the insurance companies. Yes, you are truly an ignorant fool for buying into the ACA LIE.

Obamacare is a ponzi scheme that will do nothing to improve the delivery or reduce the cost of healthcare to the average citizen. Want to make a wager on which one of us is right?

I DO NOT VOTE FOR EITHER CORPORATE PARTY!!!

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klb10
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House passes funding for military death benefits, 425-0. Harry Reid says that the President will join Congress in taking action before the evening.

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mjolnir
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Quote Phaedrus76:
Quote klb10:

And THAT gives government the RIGHT to mandate citizens to purchase a product? I don't think so, no more that government has a right to legislate morality.

Govt is mandating I buy auto insurance. Lenders mandate we have home owner insurance.

That tends to be state governments. But if the question is the federal government... it seems to have had this power at least since the Militia Acts of 1792 when it MANDATED militia members... private citizens... obtain their own firearm and equipment that met government specifications.

Quote Militia Acts:Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes.

And the federal government MANDATED that sailors in the private sector pay taxes to fund a new system of hospitals in 1798 with the Act for the Relief of Sick Disabled Seamen

http://www.scribd.com/doc/29099806/Act-for-the-Relief-of-Sick-DisabledSe...

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Quote mjolnir:

Everything except the 14Th Amend. comment is an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum" and you can engage in it if you want but I've got better things to do. This Congressional impasse is an exercise in political theatre and both sides engage in it. There is no morality involved in it.

No more absurd than the plan to cancel healthcare for 30,000,000 people by shutting down the govt.

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I wasn't planning on commenting on this as I am sure to be labeled as a right-wing nut job, but sadly, I could not resist.

All this back and forth about extortion and Obama developing a backbone and the Tea Party, blah blah blah. Who cares? And I don't mean that rhetorically. Seriously, the government is "shut-down", so what? How have you been impacted? Aside from a few friends that were planning a trip to the Grand Canyon, I can't find much in the way of a shut-down. In fact, I've seen numbers indicating that as little as only 17% of the government is not running.

As for the Tea Party congressional members, good job. You may not agree or like it, but they are doing what they were elected to do. That alone, should be the most shocking aspect of this situation. Imagine if all of Congress actually did what they were elected to do.

Have you noticed much discussion about the sequestor lately? No? I thought that was going to ruin the country, drive us in to recession, end the US as we know it. Guess what? Nothing happened. Which really makes one wonder about the validity of the less government crowd. Maybe they are on to something. Same with the shut-down, nothing is changing.

Oh and since this board loves to blame, here's a little. What Obama is doing is no different than what the Tea Party is doing - playing politics. Do you really think we couldn't open the WWII memorial today, with the strok of a pen from the President if he chose to do so? But, the WWII memorial being closed makes for good soudbites and allows the Dems to further blame the Tea Party. So who is worse the Tea Party for doing what they were asked to do or Obama?

Conservative_Th...
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Quote Conservative_Thom_Fan:As for the Tea Party congressional members, good job. You may not agree or like it, but they are doing what they were elected to do.
Fine... have everyone vote on a clean CR... and they'll just be a fringe group who loses the vote. The REAL issue here is that for political motives or to save his chairmanship, Boehner won't permit such a vote... and has been forced to lie about it. I know every partisan wants their way hook or crook... but that childish playground standard isn't what more independent people want.

What you're also missing is a greater political dynamic... have the extreme elements of the GOP been a victim of their own lies? It's a topic discussed here: http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2013/10/real-reason-gop-opposes-obamac...

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How about the Park Service opening up the closed to the public National Mall for the "Camino Americano:March for Immigration Reform" rally planned for next Tuesday with Pelosi, Menendez along with sponsors the AFL-CIO and SEIU. Membership does have its advantages, you know.

Yet another example of the tactics the dems will use to get votes. LOL

This is when we get to see all those “undocumented immigrants hiding in the shadows” (…dabbing a tear from my cheeks) parading through our capital with Mexican flags claiming America as we know it does not exist. Such patriotism!

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klb10
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Quote Conservative_Thom_Fan:Have you noticed much discussion about the sequestor lately? No? I thought that was going to ruin the country, drive us in to recession, end the US as we know it. Guess what? Nothing happened.
I'm well aware of the alarmist warnings. It's the way the game is played. But how much to date has not been spent? Your argument is like the frog in the pot of ever heating water soon to boil. "Where's the problem???" the frog says at 90 degrees. What about down the road?

From the CBO

How Big Are the Automatic Spending Reductions in 2013 and 2014?

The economic effects of changes in federal spending in this calendar year reflect the budgetary effects of the automatic spending reductions in fiscal year 2013 (which ends in the third quarter of calendar year 2013) and in the beginning of fiscal year 2014 (which includes the fourth quarter of calendar year 2013). As reported in Table 1-7 of The Budget and Economic Outlook, CBO projects that sequestration will reduce the deficit by $42 billion in fiscal year 2013 and that this year’s sequestration and automatic spending reductions next year will reduce the deficit by $89 billion in fiscal year 2014. CBO did not attempt to project the precise timing or detailed composition of this year’s spending reductions. Instead, our estimates are based on historical observations of the timing of the broad types of spending that will be affected.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43961

Why isn't this the 80ish Billion we've heard about?

Why Does CBO Expect the Sequestration to Reduce Outlays by Just $42 Billion in Fiscal Year 2013 Even Though the Automatic Budget Cuts Total $85 Billion This Year?

The $85 billion represents the reduction in budgetary resources available to government agencies this year as a result of the sequestration. But not all of that money would have been spent in this fiscal year in the absence of the sequestration: Some would have been used to enter into contracts to buy goods or services to be provided and paid for next year or in subsequent years. Acquiring major weapons systems and completing large construction projects, for example, can take several years. The $42 billion figure is CBO’s estimate of the reduction in cash disbursements in fiscal year 2013; much of the remaining outlay reductions from the 2013 sequestration will occur in fiscal year 2014, though some will occur later.

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Douglaslee, the "Suicide Caucus" map was a good link. I took a look at the map , and compared it with the “Geography of Government Benefits” map published by the New York Times a couple years ago. It pretty much confirms my suspicions – that the “Suicide Caucus” of reckless Teabagger extortionistgs coincides reasonably well with statistically white, rural districts. Um, no surprise there. The other thing is, many are poor also, and rely heavily on government benefits.

As an example, let’s take a look at Tea Party Hero Mark Meadows’ Congressional District. Meadows is the freshman Representative who started the defund Obamacare pledge letter, and got 80 co-conspirators to sign it, and then jammed it up the hapless John Boehner’s rear end.

So Meadows wants to defund Obamacare, shut down government, force the government to potentially default, and then his co-conspirator blockheads float the idea of then raiding mandatory Safety net funds – Medicare and Medicaid, among others – to pay off bondholders, in place of raising the Debt Ceiling. Oh…wunnerful idea.

Meadows’ district, North Carolina #11 consists of the following counties, which rely on GOVERNMENT for the following percentage of their income, per capita, as of 2009. I’d bet a dollar the percentage is higher now.

County….Per Capita Government Income (Medicare, Medicaid,VA, SS, Food Stamps…)

Yancey……….35%
McDowell…….32%
Henderson…….23%
Madison……….30%
Hayward………29%
Jackson………..23%
Transylvania…..27%
Swain………….33%
Macon………….29%
Clay……………33%
Graham…………37%
Cherokee……….40%
Avery…………..28%
Burke…………..26%
Caldwell……….30%
Mitchell………..34%
Buncombe*…….21%

*Only a portion of Buncombe County is in the 11th because liberal Ashville was gerrymandered out of the 11th to make it more Republican. As you can note, liberal Buncombe County is the LOWEST in % taking government benefits. In effect, TAKE OUT the most self sufficient part of the district, which leans left, presto - increase percentage of government moochers, TURN THE DISTRICT SAFELY RED!!!!

……Sooooo back of envelope calculation says that the overall average, America loving, freedom loving, Obama hatin’, Fox lovin’, flag waving, conservative, job-creatin’, white, Christian citizens of this district RELY ON BIG, BAD GOVERNMENT for 33% OF THEIR TOTAL INCOME!!!!!……While the national average is 18%, and Wayne County, Michican, home of the liberal black poster child of entitlement, is less, at 28%.

So……tell me conservatives….HOW does it benefit the constituents of the North Carolina District #11 to elect a Representative who wants to CUT government benefits, DEFUND needed healthcare, and RAID entitlement funds to pay debtholders instead of raising the debt ceiling? ??

Looking at this pitiful picture reminds me of Joan Walsh’s new book…..What’s Wrong with White People?…Well…..Joan…….THEY’RE F**KING STUPID!!!!!

I’ve always been a bit skeptical about and careful playing the race card to portray Obama’s fanatical and irrational opposition.

Statistics like this really make me rethink that. It also makes me think maybe we should just cut government expenditures IN THESE DISTRICTS only and tell these people to just, er, go have sexual relations with themselves. But, I’m sure they’re all for these cuts – FOR SOMEONE ELSE – like those black moochers in Detroit!

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/congressdistricts_final_big-01.png

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/02/12/us/entitlement-map.html?_r=0

....And there's more. Another gem from this character:

Quote Tea Party Blockhead Mark Meadows:“Constituent service is my top priority,” ..... Constituents can set up meetings at any of the district office locations to receive help with anything from navigating the federal government to assistance with their Social Security and Medicare. My staff and I are dedicated to assisting constituents whenever and wherever they need us.”
Of course, warmly offering constituents assistance with “their” Social Security and Medicare, at the same time trying to weaken these programs. Don’t his constituents realize the Medicare and Social Security, that Rep Meadows so graciously offers assistance with, was demogogued just as fanatically and vociferously from the right as Obamacare is now? And Meadows wants…….to cut them? Rep. Meadows is all smiles, but he has a shiv behind his back – this shiv’s for you, ignorant District #11 constituent.

http://www.carolinapublicpress.org/13942/meadows-opens-18-district-offices-in-wnc

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H J RES 91 2/3 YEA-AND-NAY 9-Oct-2013 2:33 PM

QUESTION: On Motion to Suspend the Rules and Pass

BILL TITLE: Making continuing appropriations for death gratuities and related survivor benefits for survivors of deceased military service members of the Department of Defense for fiscal year 2014, and for other purposes

YEAS NAYS NV

REPUBLICAN 228 3

DEMOCRATIC 197 3

INDEPENDENT

TOTALS 425 6

Anybody think Harry should pass this?

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mjolnir
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Quote klb10:

How about the Park Service opening up the closed to the public National Mall for the "Camino Americano:March for Immigration Reform" rally planned for next Tuesday with Pelosi, Menendez along with sponsors the AFL-CIO and SEIU. Membership does have its advantages, you know.

Yet another example of the tactics the dems will use to get votes. LOL

This is when we get to see all those “undocumented immigrants hiding in the shadows” (…dabbing a tear from my cheeks) parading through our capital with Mexican flags claiming America as we know it does not exist. Such patriotism!

Well, the Park Service went overboard to be present at another planned march. It's doubtful many votes were obtained from it. People do arrange for time off, plane tickets, etc. in advance of a planned event.

"Pro-pot protestors had announced a smoke-out at the Liberty Bell for the afternoon of Tuesday, October 1."

"Park rangers (working despite the government shut-down), Philadelphia police, as well as representation from the U.S. Attorneys Office in Philadelphia, assembled to arrest protestors attempting to smoke the illegal substance – an enforcement spectacle that has occurred with regularity over the past few months during monthly pro-pot demonstrations outside the Liberty Bell."

"The demonstrations take place near a stone marker engraved with the words of the First Amendment – that U.S. Constitutional right that includes protections for people to protest against the Government for “redress of grievances.”

"As the 4:20pm time of the announced smoke-out approached, the rangers put on gloves preparing to arrest protestors. But at 4:20 none of the protestors smoked any marijuana. Instead, many protestors just walked away without ‘firing up’ while uttering comments that ridiculed the assembled law enforcers for their readiness to crack down on protestors instead of keeping the budget impasse-shuttered historic sites open."

"Dyost, while chuckling at law enforcers getting pranked, scorned the whole idea that the Interior Department and the Justice Department would be ready to expend scarce federal funds to arrest people for consuming a substance that 18-million Americans use regularly (according to stats from the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy) while refusing to staff a highly popular national park historic site."

“This is not a proper use of federal resources,” Dyost said. “You can’t see the Liberty Bell but there is money being spent to make sure we can’t smoke pot.”

.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/10/08/government-shuts-down-but-pervers...

Government has priorities. It has money for potential arrests at an historic site, but none fo keep the historic site open. An audit of the Fed showed It had $16 trillion for banksters, and somehow can't scrape up money for an appendectomy

.Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Well, that being said, polycarp2, do you think that the Immigration Customs Enforcement will even be present at the "Camino Americano: Immigration Awareness Rally"?

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klb10
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Quote mjolnir:Anybody think Harry should pass this?

TRANSLATION: Mjolnir AGAIN proves the GOP are not extortionists but hostage takers. As a sign of "good will" they're willing to let a few hostages go free.

How f*ckin' noble.

The ONLY reason this program isn't being funded IS BECAUSE BOEHNER WON'T ALLOW A VOTE ON A CLEAR CR!!!!!!

But in the mind of the braindead partisans, they think the Senate is guilty for not caving in to the infantile demands of the GOP.

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Quote mjolnir:

I don't understand what you mean. I lay blame on both sides for using (political) extortion but there is nothing immoral about it. Shutdowns are a political tool and completely constitutional.

If you're responding to me you DO know how to use the QUOTE tool..

You're AGAIN evading the claim you made in post 2. I'm still waiting for you to PROVE this GOP shutdown is no different in goals or tactics from any other.

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Quote mjolnir:H J RES 91 2/3 YEA-AND-NAY 9-Oct-2013 2:33 PM

QUESTION: On Motion to Suspend the Rules and Pass

BILL TITLE: Making continuing appropriations for death gratuities and related survivor benefits for survivors of deceased military service members of the Department of Defense for fiscal year 2014, and for other purposes

YEAS NAYS NV

REPUBLICAN 228 3

DEMOCRATIC 197 3

INDEPENDENT

TOTALS 425 6

Anybody think Harry should pass this?

Do you, pierpont, really think this is an infantile demand? Harry is being just as big an ass as Boehner.

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klb10
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Aug. 13, 2013 11:24 am
Quote klb10:Do you, pierpont, really think this is an infantile demand? Harry is being just as big an ass as Boehner.

Of COURSE I do. To avoid a negative public reaction to the problem BOENHER caused, the GOP thinks they can escape the blame if they release hostages one at a time while not giving up on the core extortion. It's a divide and conquer strategy designed to embarrass the Dems and paint the infantile extortionists as reasonable.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

And it is yet another big govt program that every Republican is in favor of.

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Phaedrus76
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I don't care if you don't like the "reply" function. I do. I've answered your question, repeatedly.

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mjolnir
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Among the things which I have found obscene has been the exploitation of the shut down by the people who caused it to badger the poor public servants who have tried to deal with their feces throwing where the shit hits the fan. The Park Service personnel had a job to do to protect these sites from un-monitered, un-supported visitation. Somebody would have to staff these sites to provide the service required and expected by visitors and by those who do not want gangs to occupy and trash such sites. Closing down the Gubamint may sound great, but it has real consequences.

This is a tabloid piece of political theater as GOPimp Shutdown enthusiasts complain about the parks being closed or the "fascist" park service rangers who keep them from visiting their comrade graves. Bring me a flag hankie, darling, I am getting the vapors!

Anecdotal reporting of the pain to inconvenience caused by this stunt can lead to stop gap responses to what we know about. The reason this is not an item by item process of negotiating what is actually necessary in government spending is that what does not get "known" is what is likely to need the continued funding the most. I am all for vets being able to visit these sites, for any of us for that matter, and not to have them closed arbitrarily to inconvenience those who have planned a visit. The Shutdown Idiots do not appreciate how others will pay for their "moral and principled" stand. Here is an obvious injustice, but not one where anyone dies. Food stamps, access to healthcare, etc., are far more important in any moral universe.

Your inability to appreciate our America as including immigrants from Mexico and further South is sad. What do you think about St. Patrick's Day and the wearing of the Green? Immigration became an issue when people like us (WASP) were no longer the immigrants. Those who could come with nothing including papers became those who are obsessed with the papers carried by human beings. "Undocumented immigrants hiding in the shadows" sounds creepy. I think those shadows we cast are really menacing and evil.

drc2
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Apr. 26, 2012 12:15 pm

We have to kiss the ass of every PC group except legitimate American citizens and heros, a few peaceful demonstators protesting the failed war on drugs and its accompanying police state and a few WWII veterans, both dangerous terrorist groups. But, yea, let's bend over backwards or frontwards and let a bunch of illegal immigrants shove it up our ass while waving the Mexican flag and telling us how sorry this country is while they continue to rob us. BULLSHIT!

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klb10
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Aug. 13, 2013 11:24 am

Well, that depends on who gets to define who is a legitimate citizen. My grandma would suggest that most of you go back to where you originated from.

Her definition of "legal" was anyone or their ancestors who arrived here before the birth of Christ. She wanted her country and her direct democracy back. She never did recognize foreigner claims to it. From her point of view, it was theft.

She'd probably be against issuing visa's and work cards to let you back in. She never did take kindly to thieves. She couldn't accommodate to them. Her nation didn't require jails and prisons. The illegals who stole her country brought a lot of really bad habits with them.

Retired Monk - "Ideology is a disease"

polycarp2
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote mjolnir:

I don't care if you don't like the "reply" function. I do. I've answered your question, repeatedly.

Obviously you have no intention of backing up your own claim that the GOP is doing NOTHING new compared to previous govt shutdowns. They all involved extortion. Yet you've done NOTHING to actually go through all those other shutdowns you've cited to prove your point. Yet you're claiming you've repeatedly proved your point.

I can understand your dilemma. All your postings in this thread are based on some moral equivalency between today's GOP and previous shutdowns you've FAILED to prove. Today's GOP is acting like infantile brats.

So your only options are is to admit your core claim is not true, that all your posts to this thread were disingenuous bullshit... or to dishonestly pretend you've proved your point. You've chose the latter.

Reminds me of when you accused me of not being a gun owner then when I proved it, you denied you ever said it.

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http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2013/10/tea-party-threats-are-not-blac...

Quote mjolnir:
Quote Pierpont:
Quote mjolnir:

Are you skimming posts again instead of reading for comprehension?

....your FIRST claim to this thread that ALL such government shutdowns have been a form of "extortion.
Are you saying that shutdowns sometimes are allowable? Presumably just when they agree with your political views. Lol.

I ask again: Are you saying [political] "extortion" is, sometimes, morally acceptable? By the way that's twice you've lied about the gun thread since you abandoned it in March. Why litter a thread with off-topic comments?

Oh, that's right, you can't stop yourself. lol

mjolnir's picture
mjolnir
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Mar. 3, 2011 12:42 pm
Quote klb10:

We have to kiss the ass of every PC group except legitimate American citizens and heros, a few peaceful demonstators protesting the failed war on drugs and its accompanying police state and a few WWII veterans, both dangerous terrorist groups. But, yea, let's bend over backwards or frontwards and let a bunch of illegal immigrants shove it up our ass while waving the Mexican flag and telling us how sorry this country is while they continue to rob us. BULLSHIT!

Fuck you. Either you want big govt to run safe clean parks, or you shut them down. Pick one.

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
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Quote mjolnir:

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2013/10/tea-party-threats-are-not-blackmail-they-are-extortionists-add-hostage-takers?page=1#comment-234751

Quote mjolnir:
Quote Pierpont:

....your FIRST claim to this thread that ALL such government shutdowns have been a form of "extortion.

Are you saying that shutdowns sometimes are allowable? Presumably just when they agree with your political views. Lol.

I ask again: Are you saying [political] "extortion" is, sometimes, morally acceptable? By the way that's twice you've lied about the gun thread since you abandoned it in March. Why litter a thread with off-topic comments?

Oh, that's right, you can't stop yourself. lol

So you're still evading proving your dubious claims made in your first post here, yet expect me to forget that and fall for another of your diversions? Of COURSE you do? You're referring to the thread where you made an ass of yourself accusing me of just pretending to be a gun owner then when I proved otherwise, you denied it? As here, we were going around in circles and I let finally let you have the last word. I think my final words there still apply...

....out of desperation from a few words you've manufactured ANOTHER baseless allegation all to get the attention off the fact that you've already made other baseless allegations you could not prove and when busted, lacked the integrity to retract as you do now.
Look in the mirror M... between those ears of yours there's a deep pathology at work.
Feel free to have the last word.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm

And I did:

Quote mjolnir:
Quote Pierpont:[...]Feel free to have the last word.[...]
Sure. Stealing a line from Redwing: "Peacock, You need to calm down. Take a breath, and step away from the...", keyboard, stop telling people they have "blood on their hands" (paraphrased) and get some instruction on how to properly operate a firearm. Have a good day.

On topic - Are you going to answer the question? Are some shutdowns moral or are they all just political expedience?

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mjolnir
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Mar. 3, 2011 12:42 pm

I think it is clear mjolnir and fo are lying about owning firearms. They have never sufficiently proven gun ownership on this forum.

Phaedrus76's picture
Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm
Quote klb10:
Quote mjolnir:H J RES 91 2/3 YEA-AND-NAY 9-Oct-2013 2:33 PM

QUESTION: On Motion to Suspend the Rules and Pass

BILL TITLE: Making continuing appropriations for death gratuities and related survivor benefits for survivors of deceased military service members of the Department of Defense for fiscal year 2014, and for other purposes

YEAS NAYS NV

REPUBLICAN 228 3

DEMOCRATIC 197 3

INDEPENDENT

TOTALS 425 6

Anybody think Harry should pass this?

Do you, pierpont, really think this is an infantile demand? Harry is being just as big an ass as Boehner.

I think the Senate just passed it by unaminous consent. It's a start.

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mjolnir
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Mar. 3, 2011 12:42 pm
Quote Phaedrus76:I think it is clear mjolnir and fo are lying about owning firearms. They have never sufficiently proven gun ownership on this forum.
Just exactly how can anything be proven in a forum context? Not that I feel the need to prove anything to the likes of you. Lol.

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mjolnir
Joined:
Mar. 3, 2011 12:42 pm
Quote mjolnir:

And I did:

Quote mjolnir:
Quote Pierpont:[...]Feel free to have the last word.[...]
Sure. Stealing a line from Redwing: "Peacock, You need to calm down. Take a breath, and step away from the...", keyboard, stop telling people they have "blood on their hands" (paraphrased) and get some instruction on how to properly operate a firearm. Have a good day.

On topic - Are you going to answer the question? Are some shutdowns moral or are they all just political expedience?

Still waiting for YOU to prove your claims made in post 2. How many times do I have to ask? Maybe then I can fathom your "logic" that the rest of your posts are based on.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Quote Phaedrus76:I think it is clear mjolnir and fo are lying about owning firearms. They have never sufficiently proven gun ownership on this forum.
Actually I did. Last March I posted a pic of my old 1980 FID card, the instructions for my rifle, and a note telling M to go f himself. This is when M suddenly decided he no longer claimed I actually owned a firearm.

Pierpont's picture
Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Quote Pierpont:
Quote Phaedrus76:I think it is clear mjolnir and fo are lying about owning firearms. They have never sufficiently proven gun ownership on this forum.
Actually I did. Last March I posted a pic of my old 1980 FID card, the instructions for my rifle, and a note telling M to go f himself. This is when M suddenly decided he no longer claimed I actually owned a firearm.

It's a shame I don't remember seeing it. Was the rifle there? A take-down .22 if memory serves me. I wish I had one. Are you going to answer anything to do with the topic of this thread?

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mjolnir
Joined:
Mar. 3, 2011 12:42 pm
Quote mjolnir:Are you going to answer anything to do with the topic of this thread?

When YOU finally prove true your claims made way way back in post 2. How many times to I have to ask? But then it's as I suspect. Your claim was untrue and indefensible... and your evasion and diversions are just proof of that.

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Pierpont
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Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Quote Phaedrus76:
Quote klb10:We have to kiss the ass of every PC group except legitimate American citizens and heros, a few peaceful demonstators protesting the failed war on drugs and its accompanying police state and a few WWII veterans, both dangerous terrorist groups. But, yea, let's bend over backwards or frontwards and let a bunch of illegal immigrants shove it up our ass while waving the Mexican flag and telling us how sorry this country is while they continue to rob us. BULLSHIT!

Fuck you. Either you want big govt to run safe clean parks, or you shut them down. Pick one.

What the hell has your red herring got to do with government (the AG's office and Obama) playing political favorites by treating WWII veterans and Viet Nam vets like third class citizens while giving ILLEGAL immigrants a free rein of the National Mall claiming it is ther 1st Amendment right? As non citizens they don't even have the same rights a CITIZENS. It is a slap in the face of every veteran, and citizen for that matter.

The illegals will build a stage have amplified equipment, access to TV cameras to waive mexican flags in front of and shout their American hating crap. This president is playing politics and it's only a matter of time before even his most ardent supporters see through his thinly veiled hatred of everything American and see him for the arrogant prick he is. What this means is that the administration is sending a clear message that it's OK to barricade elderly verterans out of their memorials but illegal immigrants must be accomodated. It is nothing but pandering and ass kissing. It is disgusting and outrageous. Your red herring smells of rotting fish.

A true leader would be embarassed to allow this kind of Anti-American shit.

I wonder if the democrats will have voter registration booth set up for all those future dems that outrate true American heroes?

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klb10
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Aug. 13, 2013 11:24 am
Quote mjolnir:
Quote Phaedrus76:I think it is clear mjolnir and fo are lying about owning firearms. They have never sufficiently proven gun ownership on this forum.
Just exactly how can anything be proven in a forum context? Not that I feel the need to prove anything to the likes of you. Lol.

So then what makes you the Gawd for denying Pierpoint's claim?

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Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

First, governing means having to choose favorites.
Second, the immigration rally pays a fee to use their space. I suppose if the WWII memorial had a large ticket booth and charged people a cover charge then it never would have closed.
Third can you answer if you love big govt or if you want the memorial shut down?

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Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

First, it has nothingf to do with "governing". It is obama's way of giving American citizens the finger as in, "fuck you bastards, I the annointed one can and will do as I please". It is ass kissing and pandering for their votes.

Second, Prove they paid a fee. You contradict yourself saying that if the WWII memorial charged then it would be open, proving that no fees are charged.

Third, Why does it take big government to keep memorials open? I have read that it took more money to close them down than it does to keep them open. That is the problem with you liberal/progressives that think big government is the answer to all things. BULLSHIT!

Answer me this, Do you think a bunch of goddamn illegal wetbacks deserve better treatment than our veterans? Obviously as part of his anti-American agenda obama does.

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klb10
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Aug. 13, 2013 11:24 am
Quote klb10:Answer me this, Do you think a bunch of goddamn illegal wetbacks deserve better treatment than our veterans? Obviously as part of his anti-American agenda obama does.

Listening to this far right fool you might never know that it's the GOP that shut down the government. But then the Orwellian Right propaganda apparatus has made sure gullible True Believers only hear tall tales that make the GOP's hostage taking sound respectable.

Pierpont's picture
Pierpont
Joined:
Feb. 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Quote klb10:

First, it has nothingf to do with "governing". It is obama's way of giving American citizens the finger as in, "fuck you bastards, I the annointed one can and will do as I please". It is ass kissing and pandering for their votes.

Second, Prove they paid a fee. You contradict yourself saying that if the WWII memorial charged then it would be open, proving that no fees are charged.

Third, Why does it take big government to keep memorials open? I have read that it took more money to close them down than it does to keep them open. That is the problem with you liberal/progressives that think big government is the answer to all things. BULLSHIT!

Answer me this, Do you think a bunch of goddamn illegal wetbacks deserve better treatment than our veterans? Obviously as part of his anti-American agenda obama does.

If the vets pay for the use of a park, then they should have every right to use it. If they are looking for a freebie, freeloadin' moocher, socialism friendly public park then that requires a govt to run it.

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Phaedrus76
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Sep. 14, 2010 8:21 pm

Never proving your claim of the wetbacks having to pay to have their anti-American protest on the National Mall.

And never answering if he thinks illegal wetbacks deserve preferential treatment over our hero veterans.

According to liberal/progressives it takes big money wasting, frauding, government to run or do anything.

Walking down to the “March” I could see this was a very expensive undertaking. Very elaborate stage. Numerous towered speakers around the perimeter. And a massive Jumbotron for those at the rear. Of course, pro-amnesty groups have been recently bragging about all the money at their disposal for the amnesty push. That was certainly evident today.

“Tens of thousands” were expected so a block-long line of porta potties was set up and several tents offered free water bottles.

But Melanie discovered that the organizers didn’t pay for these accommodations. The Park Service did. Which means you did. The Park Police also brought in 8 horses in case they needed crowd control.

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/van-esser/october-8-2013/pro-amnesty-event-national-mall-predictable-unimpressive.html

You are a lying, fabricating typical progessive to just make the ridiculous assertion that the wetbacks paid for anything. I\t was all at taxpayer expense so that the democrats could pander and ass kiss for votes. I wonder itf they had voter registration booths set up?

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klb10
Joined:
Aug. 13, 2013 11:24 am
Quote klb10:Never proving your claim of the wetbacks having to pay to have their anti-American protest on the National Mall.
Klb10, your racial slurs on this issue really tend to repel those who may otherwise join you on the issue. Although I do support some type of immigration reform, I oppose immigration reform that's paves the road for more immigration, or wholesale amnesty. Maybe some common ground......But the language repels me. Why not disparage the mostly white, male "job creators" that hire these "wetbacks?" It is a 2 way street, you know.

I believe we need to take a hiatus, and let our economy absorb the millions that are now unemployed or underemployed, before we open the immigration faucets again. But my opposition is economic, not racial. I'd oppose it even if the immigrants were all blue-eyed white guys named Klaus, from Europe. Now, will you join me in calling for draconian immigration raids and punishment for the TRUE exploiters and drivers of illegal immigration - Job creators in agriculture, meatpacking, restaurant/hospitality, and construction? The paunchy, pasty white guys that run the U.S. Chamber of Commerce or the National Restaurant Association? Or do you just want to slur and punish the powerless pawns of the labor/immigration system that Dems and the GOP/Chamber of Commerce have allowed to form, solely for the benefit of business executives and shareholders? And maybe you don't get it, Dems do get the votes, but GOP business interests get the cheap, exploitable labor. You see to ignore that.

Quote klb10:And never answering if he thinks illegal wetbacks deserve preferential treatment over our hero veterans.
After hearing conservatives whine about this issue for several days, I did an examination of these two cases and from what I read, it does seem to be a valid complaint. An honest mistake and a real toe-stub from the Obama Admin not to anticipate the WWII Memorial issue. It's the perfect metaphor for the conservatives to exploit for portraying the divide that powers them - Older, "traditional" white America vs. the newer brown menace - that Obama and the Democrats represent. What a screw up.

My belief is the WWII Memorial issue is a big "Oh Sh*t" that the Administration failed to anticipate, and after that, they decided to let other groups use the Mall, therefore the immigration rally, which was later. I don't believe it has anything to do with favoring one group over another. I don't believe any politician is clueless enough to purposely block WWII vets from visiting their memorial. You may not agree with their policies, but they're not political idiots. Their mistake not to anticipate the issue, though. I'd be if the immigration rally was scheduled before the WWII vet visit, maybe that rally would have been the first to be blocked.

And BYW, over the weekend Glenn Beck and his merry followers had an event on the mall, too. And according to Beck's show Friday, it was "approved," and they had their permits. I assume it was approved and permitted by the same folks who approved and permitted the immigration rally. They weren't blocked.

http://www.glennbeck.com/2013/10/11/help-keep-the-national-mall-clean-join-glenn-in-d-c-this-weekend/

Although the GOP landed a punch on this issue, I don't believe it had nothing to do with "favoring" one group over another. If someone has more information as to why the Vets were blocked and the Immigration rally wasn't, I'd like to hear it.

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al3
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Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

What Do Democrats Really Want?

Thom plus logo Thomas Friedman, the confused billionaire, told us decades ago that "free trade" is what made the Lexus a successful product when, in fact, it was decades of Japanese government subsidies and explicit tariffs that did so.
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