Why Does Thom Cite DU Posts And The Chat Room... But Not His Forum?

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Thom often cites topics at the Democratic Underground... or comments made in the chat room... but I can't ever recall him citing a topic written about in these forums. Am I wrong? If I'm right... any explanations?

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ulTRAX
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Comments

He does it just to annoy you.

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Aliceinwonderland
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Quote Aliceinwonderland:

He does it just to annoy you.

Poor Alice... still pissed because I dared take a stance she disapproved of.

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A couple of months ago on his evening television show, Thom commented on a thread started by you and he even stated your name. The topic of the thread was about how to convince Dems to vote, or something like that............... Other than that, I don't recall him ever mentioning any other posts, although occasionally I've heard him mention certain topics or phrases that I suspect he read here first.

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organican
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Nov. 30, 2012 3:24 am

Thom can quote my posts all he wants. I don't want any credit. Mentioning my name on the air would just be a waste of air time, and stoke my ego more than I deserve.

Sometimes I hear him expressing opinions on topics I have posted about, and wonder if I planted a seed.

Just as often, I hear him expression opinions that I had thought about posting, but didn't get around to.

Is it that great minds think alike?

Or am I just another "hundredth monkey" ?

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Sacramento Dave
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I am: a New and Fervent Progressive

Picture this: Timeline with Left-leaning-thoughts-people-legislstion on the Left side of the timeline and Right-leaning-thoughts-people-legislstion on the Right side.

A couple questions:

1. Is socialism really the opposite of democracy:

2. Where can I find concise and articulate explainations of current topics (besides Berrnie Sanders site)?

3. Is there a quite revolution going on? and why can't I find it? ;-) besides the fact that I live in Wisconsin.

Thanks you, C. Johnson

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camillejohnson44
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Quote camillejohnson44:A couple questions:

1. Is socialism really the opposite of democracy:

2. Where can I find concise and articulate explainations of current topics (besides Berrnie Sanders site)?

3. Is there a quite revolution going on? and why can't I find it? ;-) besides the fact that I live in Wisconsin.

Welcome to the forum. Those questions sound like they deserve their own threads. Anyone looking for those topics would never think to look in a thread with a title for another topic.

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Hi Camille, and enjoy the fervor but do relax and breathe for the long distance.

Wisconsin is the scene of the crime, so you get to see a lot of nonsense up close and personal, and your media will be filled with Koched up Corporatism.

In a few words, socialism is democracy and capitalism is contrary to it. What has been called Socialism under centralized command and control is nothing like what Progressives have been for, where collectives and co-ops and locally based units are where power resides rather than in the imperial command center. Corporate Capitalism loves the hierarchy and command and control management model and does not care much about workers. Democracy goes the other way.

Finding people who can explain "topics" clearly and concisely depends upon the topic, of course. It is also a bit hopeful and you might have to wade through some half-baked and less than final edits in our conversational format. One of the byproducts of conversing is learning what others are reading and where they are finding good information and/or commentary.

As to the "quiet revolution," it is the nature of these things to have quiet before the storm and for "all hope to be lost" as dawn breaks. When we do history looking back at the past, it seems like a clear process of inevitable evolution rather than quite different from what was expected and predicted. When we attempt to parse the future, we confuse "trends" with what is happening, but it is not a great correlation. Check out how well World's Fairs have shown us our "futures."

What is clear to me is that Empires decline and fall, sometimes very quickly. I think we have reached the apex of over-reach and have drawn lines in quicksand that will swallow us if we keep this fantasy up and going. All empires are evil, so whatever moral right we have to "defense" has been perverted to global reach and will only bring ruin upon us unless we withdraw from empire with humble rapidity.

I do not get the timeline. The establishment of Rightwing Dogma by propaganda and deceit has made Progressive and "Left-leaning" thought and thinkers disappear from the public media other than in a few niches and through comedy. Peace is in exile in DC and the media as the debates are about war or more war. What is branded as an end to a war turns out to be a minor change of costume or the end of a futile mission.

The odds of legislating ourselves out of this mess are slim. Events will force us to do the right thing if we even get that chance. Things will fall apart when the center cannot hold, and the desperation of those trying to hold their entropy together may seem like power, but it is less powerful the more it is revealed rather than hidden. What is being acted out by the Tea Party is often idiotic, but the real hubris and folly is being acted out by the Neocons, those who continue Cold War thinking and have to find new enemies to feature against our 'global force for good.' Nope, our navy is the imperial petroguard and guzzler.

How do we get over "exceptionalism?" When does it become understood to be a term of pathology rather than pride? Why is it so hard to appreciate the distinction between being "special," maybe even to have a distinct gift, and being superior?

And, when do advocates of personal responsibility translate that into a patriotism that "blames America first" with moral integrity? I don't demand that critics of America desire its restoration to some "Constitutional Democracy" without major redesign and/or restructure. I expect the future to bring changes we have not considered. At this point, all I want is for those on the Right to come to the Pledge of Allegiance tent where we can talk about how we are going to live together from here on out. I like the Pledge as a common ground for this discussion.

drc2
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Perhaps this is not the point, but i was immediately kicked off the DU discussion foru for even mentioning that Hillary clinton might not make a good Presidential candidate. Hardly an example for the expression of contrary opinions. A further embarassment of a broken instituion

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Quote Semi permeable memebrain:

Perhaps this is not the point, but i was immediately kicked off the DU discussion foru for even mentioning that Hillary clinton might not make a good Presidential candidate. Hardly an example for the expression of contrary opinions. A further embarrassment of a broken institution

DU is not a very tolerant board... its ideological range is restricted to dogmatic, Democratic liberalism... and in a curious sense they are rather conservative. I use the term in the non-political sense: someone who is accepting of some current reality and doesn't want it challenged. Liberal Dems tend to not question, let alone want to change, the two party system, the Constitution... no matter how dysfunctional or antidemocratic it is, or rethink our economic system. This forum has a much broader range from braindead dittoheads to far lefties. Kudos to Thom, Louise, the web gods, and the mods.

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These MESSAGE BOARDS are the place where brain dead ditto heads get to post current and historical info of which they want people to be aware. The member blogs are the place to blog, if a brain dead ditto head feels like expressing an opinion, like you just did about the American constitution.

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Probably about 10 years ago Thom quoted a post I made on the old, old board. He disagreed with it which I thought was odd because it was along the lines of the "live simply so other's may simply live" which was a motto of some liberal thinking not conservative. I didn't hear the show that day but Sue mentioned it to me in the that thread and because the show could be downloaded or repeated I was able to hear it. Thom seemed to also have a problem with the Captain Bebops moniker which I don't think he (nor others here) get the irony.

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Quote captbebops:

Thom seemed to also have a problem with the Captain Bebops moniker which I don't think he (nor others here) get the irony.

What is the name a reference to?

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An explained joke is kind of limp and lame, but this one is a bit esoteric other than my experience playing bebop is that you cannot stop to think at all. It is also more like learning Italian or Spanish than French because of the fast pace of the rhytym compared to French which is more relaxed and modal.

I know it began with Black cats getting tired of White guys taking their gigs, so they got to playing something it took us a while to get into. It is still a step into serious listening even if it is great fun, and if you just want to sing along with Mitch, bebop and scat will drive you nuts. I love to scat.

drc2
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Captain = military term and Bebops = a jazz musical term. They are two different words or ideas not usually seen together. I first read of the idea of putting to words like this from a Johnny Carson interview years ago in TV Guide. Jazz is very free form and military is very strict form. It creates a dissonance.

The term "bebop" was explained to me years ago from a fellow musician as a technique for keeping an improvisation going. If you end a musical phrase on the downbeat then then you have essentially made a "period" and said "I'm done." But end on the offbeat and it's more like a "comma" and helps you launch the next phrase. Hence a the sound of the last two notes in such improvisation sounded like "bebop". Listen to some Charlie Parker or Dizzy Gillespie tunes to see what I mean.

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Thom did it again... last week and again today.

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Quote ulTRAX:

Thom did it again... last week and again today.

And again today.

I think this all ties in to Thom having moved from the forums to his private blog here. He no longer has to read the forums... a topic I raised in another thread

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2015/07/are-blogs-here-ruining-forums

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Quote ulTRAX:

Thom often cites topics at the Democratic Underground... or comments made in the chat room... but I can't ever recall him citing a topic written about in these forums. Am I wrong? If I'm right... any explanations?

I think he did respond on air to the suggestion made here that he invite Hillary to do what Bernie does and come on Thom's show and take un-scripted questions from us listeners. Unfortunatley though he seems to have ignored the part about shaming her on air if she ignores or refuses the invitation. Unless I missed it.

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Quote ulTRAX:

Thom often cites topics at the Democratic Underground... or comments made in the chat room... but I can't ever recall him citing a topic written about in these forums. Am I wrong? If I'm right... any explanations?

And Thom did it again today.

Am I the only one who thought that by posting to Thom's forum there was a possibility of Thom reading posts even if he didn't respond?

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And Thom just did it again today.

Can anyone EVER remember Thom citing a post from his own forums?

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It could be that Thom is neither liberal nor progressive. That's OK, it's his show. Ego trumps and ratings matter.

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Quote Alberto Ceras 2:

It could be that Thom is neither liberal nor progressive. That's OK, it's his show. Ego trumps and ratings matter.

I wouldn't go that far. I think he's a progressive when it comes to economics, but a mere liberal Dem when it comes to politics and democracy and the DU is a liberal Democratic forum... and they don't tolerate anyone much to the left of that. I've been banned there perhaps 3 times. So Thom know's that whatever he reads there is pre-filtered... as opposed to his own forum which is open to everyone.

I really don't know why he'd have a forum and not bother to refer to anything worth while written here or interact with members here. Of course, I suspect Thom would not want to be drawn into debates here. Some people would set him up.

As I wrote elsewhere... once the site was redesigned and blogs were added... Thom even have to visit the forums anymore. I know he certainly doesn't read any of the corrections I've posted here since he keeps repeating the same mistaken info... such as that the Gulf War wasn't a mere 3 days long.

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Take a look at the "Daily Stack" on his newsletter and then ask yourself if a man that reads all that has time for the "daily scrum".

nimblecivet
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Quote nimblecivet:

Take a look at the "Daily Stack" on his newsletter and then ask yourself if a man that reads all that has time for the "daily scrum".

He obviously reads posts at DU. Or maybe someone on the staff does. If true I say again HEY.... THOM'S LOYAL LISTENERS POST HERE!

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Ultraxx

I hate to say it, but since I began participating on "forums/blogs" a year 1/2 ago, I've noticed the dissonance, the inconsistency, to be mild o9f criticism

It seems the F/B pages are "run" by a handful of significant posters who engage in insult, hateful, and even violent speech AT WILL , and who intimidate others to LEAVE the space. (AIW,Zenzoe, and the latest scam du jour, R.Kenyatta, who writes of "spilling the white man's blood". wow. TH supports milartarism, tribalism and violence??? yes, eeggads.

I think this is a scam, this TH, and Alberto may be right, though it pains me to have to aknowledge the reality myself. I too was an ardent believer.

Sorry Ul, I think if you're a "loyal listener" and think that you have value here, you are mistaken.

We are suckers for having believed, I did too. sigh.....................

peace Ultraxx, keep up your good fights w/the Libertarians/neo-libs, best wishes........mlk.sinao

mlk.silenceisnotanoption (not verified)

I agree Alberto, though it pains me to aknowledge the glaring reality. This is a scam. How else to explain the non-banned openenly violent rhetoric of R.Kenyatta? And the vicious attcks- even threatening-- on other thoughtful posters who dare disagree. Just like the infamous "rape thread".

something stinks, and it must be TH, it's HIS site. and.......as usual,

at least one of the "usual suspects" is in deep kahoots, AIW. Funny, where's her twin, ZZ?

This site and Thom Hartmann is a scam. Such a shame.

He "coulda been a contender", instaed he's a BUM. like all the rest.

peace to you, best wishes................mlk.

mlk.silenceisnotanoption (not verified)

ps i check in here every few days or so, but I've not listened to TH show on FSTV or RT or anywhere for the last month and will never listen again.

I am also spreading the word of the crap game that TH is playing, inviting people to post on HIS forum/blog site and the treatment one can expect IF one runs afoul of the.......clique?

we all know who's the clique.......I warn people not to post......unless you want to wind up with sleepless nights questioning reality as you know it

THIS IS THE ULTIMATE SPIN ZONE

sorry, FOX, ya got nuttin that beats this nonsence. even O'Reily has more scruples............(oh geez, did I just type THAT??? yes, and I meant it)

mlk.sinao

mlk.silenceisnotanoption (not verified)
Quote mlk.silenceisnotanoption:It seems the F/B pages are "run" by a handful of significant posters who engage in insult, hateful, and even violent speech AT WILL , and who intimidate others to LEAVE the space. (AIW,Zenzoe, and the latest scam du jour, R.Kenyatta, who writes of "spilling the white man's blood". wow. TH supports milartarism, tribalism and violence??? yes, eeggads.

Even with three posts trying to explain your position, you've lost me.

I believe progressivism manifests in some key realms... social, economic, foreign policy, and political. I think Thom is progressive in the first three... but like perhaps the vast majority of liberal Dems in the US, Thom's stuck in the contradictions of US liberal theology... that they need to claim a monopoly on democracy yet refuse to define it... and in reality support an antidemocratic and virtually reform-proof political system.

Because of this ideological blind spot they miss the connection between antidemocratic government and the corporate takeover of the US and why the bounty of our nation goes to the top 1% if not the 1% of the 1%. Thom, on occasion, seems on the verge of understanding this... as he has with his occasional criticism of the antidemocratic nature of the US Senate in which states with a mere 18% of US population get 52% of the seats. But then can't make the connection that the amendment process is obscenely antidemocratic... giving states with a mere 3.5% of the population the power to veto any amendment... and his support for the antidemocratic EC which gave us Bush2.

It seems most US liberals are such mindless apologists for our system they'd rather blame the Supreme Court for Election 2000 rather than realize that they just let the antidemocratic EC do its dirty work.

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Quote mlk.silenceisnotanoption:I am also spreading the word of the crap game that TH is playing, inviting people to post on HIS forum/blog site and the treatment one can expect IF one runs afoul of the.......clique?

we all know who's the clique.......I warn people not to post......unless you want to wind up with sleepless nights questioning reality as you know it

THIS IS THE ULTIMATE SPIN ZONE

I've no idea what you're talking about. Sure, we see a lot of both liberal and right wing spin here. So what? A good part of my disagreements are with libs here. So who's doing the "spinning"?

I'm lost. What's your point?

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Thom just did it again... citing a DU post.

Can ANYONE ever remember Thom citing posts from his own forum????

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Quote ulTRAX:

Can ANYONE ever remember Thom citing posts from his own forum????

Just the one time I mentioned in post #4 of this thread. Once, during his evening show, Thom cited a thread submitted by ulTrax. The thread's topic was a question: How do we convince Dems to vote?........... or something like that.

I also don't understand why Thom doesn't more often acknowledge, or encourage participation in the forum.

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Quote organican:
Quote ulTRAX:

Can ANYONE ever remember Thom citing posts from his own forum????

Just the one time I mentioned in post #4 of this thread. Once, during his evening show, Thom cited a thread submitted by ulTrax. The thread's topic was a question: How do we convince Dems to vote?........... or something like that.
Wouldn't it be telling if that was one of my old posts at DU?

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Here's the thread that Thom talked about.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2014/10/whats-best-30-sec-argument-can...

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Thom just did it again... today, and a few days ago... citing something from DU while he seems intent on ignoring his own forum.

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Thom just did it again... today, and a few days ago... citing something from DU while he seems intent on ignoring his own forum.

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Thom just did it again.

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ulTRAX
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Quote ulTRAX:

Thom just did it again.

Maybe he ignores this forum for the same reason he screens calls. So that he can avoid being directly confronted by us over his bipolar defense of Hillary Clinton's crimes?

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Quote stoptpp:
Quote ulTRAX:

Thom just did it again.

Maybe he ignores this forum for the same reason he screens calls. So that he can avoid being directly confronted by us over his bipolar defense of Hillary Clinton's crimes?
Not sure what actual crimes you speak of. Thom is an admitted Democratic partisan and I suspect he believes it serves no purpose to undermine or bash Hillary. He can't alienate half his audience. If she's the nominee, she's the lesser of the evils compared to any lunatic the GOP picks. If I have to vote for her to prevent some GOP lunatic from winning, I won't have to just hold my nose. I'd need a hazmat suit.

We can't always get 100% of what we want. From my point of view Bernie has deep faults. He may be an economic progressive but he's not a political progressive. He's absolutely silent when it comes to reforming our antidemocratic and reformproof federal system. He can't connect the dots that the core reason for most of what he complains about is a political system designed around class warfare, a system designed to give elites a veto over the People. So should I never vote for him for his "crimes" against democracy?

In a proportional representation system we could all vote our conscience and get some representation. We don't have that system. I'd argue our defective electoral and political system forces all but braindead partisans to be somewhat "bipolar".

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Maybe you should become a "melanicist" or a "Melanicnation" member ---advocate for the killing of white people, and then you too could become a TH star.

mlk.silenceisnotanoption

VIOLENCE IS NOT AN OPTION

mlk.silenceisnotanoption (not verified)
Quote ulTRAX:

Not sure what actual crimes you speak of.

Enthusiastically supporting Bush's Invasion of Iraq. Overthrowing the Secular Pan-African Gadhafi Government and replacing it with a radical Islamisist one that lynched Gadhafi and drove all of the Black people out of Libya. Helping radical Islamisist terrorists try to overthrow the secular Syrian government of Assad. Demanding that Russia abandon it's bases in Syria and Crimea, and calling for tons of new NATO weaponry to be placed on Russia's border. Defending her husband's Sanctions on Iraq that killed ( as her gal pal Madeleine Albright admits) over one half million Iraqi children, and signaling that she plans to to impose similar murderous Sanctions herself upon Iran if she is ever sworn in as President.

Some might add her role in rallying support for her husband's "War on Crime" that resulted in a very high percentage of young African American Males being incarcerated for extremely long sentences, and her vote for and support of bailing out the Big Banks, but, to be honest, I was mostly talking about her crimes against Peace. That's what concerns me the most.

To be fair, in regards to her support for the Iraq War and her support for locking up a large percentage of young African American males, she has since called both of these a "mistake". But, in neither case, ( or in any other case, come to think of it) have I ever heard her use the phrase, "I'm sorry". There is a big difference between saying "it was a mistake" and saying "I am sorry". If you can show me where, at any time in the past, she has actually apologized for any of the above listed crimes, or if she has a Damascus Road Conversion and decides to publicly apologize sometime between now and November, then I will consider voting for her in the General Election. If not, I will not vote for her, and neither should you.

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Quote stoptpp:
Quote ulTRAX:

Not sure what actual crimes you speak of.

Enthusiastically supporting Bush's Invasion of Iraq.

I've argued in the past that Congress didn't vote for war, that Bush violated the conditions placed on him by the AUMF.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2013/03/did-congress-really-vote-iraq-war

If Hillary went beyond the vote... into calling for war before Bush began it... then I'd say you're correct.

Quote stoptpp:Overthrowing the Secular Pan-African Gadhafi Government and replacing it with a radical Islamisist one that lynched Gadhafi and drove all of the Black people out of Libya.
This is one of those cases that is unclear. You're claiming Clinton wanted the Islamic radicals to take over and that's nonsense. The situation is more murky than Iraq. The ICC called for Gaddafi's arrest then there's the question of whether NATO's actions were legal under international law. They may have been being authorized by a UN Security Council Resolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1973

Clearly the US often abuses its power as it did in the Bush2's illegal invasion of Iraq. And no doubt the US can lean on the UNSC to do it's bidding... or block UNSC resolutions against, say, Israel. Sometimes efforts like trying to protect civilians just go wrong. One can't always then claim, as you seem to be doing, it's by design.

But we stray from the topic of this thread. Maybe you should start a new one on Hilary's alleged war crimes.

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Quote ulTRAX:

[ You're claiming Clinton wanted the Islamic radicals to take over and that's nonsense.

I am pointing out that she helped them take power.

But , to get this thread back on topic, the issue isn't whether or not you are capable of understanding what she did. The issue is that Thom does understand it, but he is playing crazy. That's why he doesn't want to acknowledge feedback from this forum. In my opinion.

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Quote stoptpp:
Quote ulTRAX:

[ You're claiming Clinton wanted the Islamic radicals to take over and that's nonsense.

I am pointing out that she helped them take power.

But , to get this thread back on topic, the issue isn't whether or not you are capable of understanding what she did. The issue is that Thom does understand it, but he is playing crazy. That's why he doesn't want to acknowledge feedback from this forum. In my opinion.

Thom hasn't paid any attention to his own forum long before the presidential race started. So I don't buy your theory. I suspect that with the new forum setup... complete with blogs, Thom never had to post in the forums anymore. That is if Thom even posts his own blog articles. He may just not post to avoid being baited into debates. But one might think that he could at least mention something of interest posted in the forum. After all it's HIS forum.

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Yeah! Thom finally mentioned his own message board!! Not that he cited anything here. But it's progress.

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America: Meet Your Overlord Rupert Murdoch...

Thom plus logo The main lesson that we've learned so far from the impeachment hearings is that if Richard Nixon had had a billionaire like Rupert Murdoch with a television network like Fox News behind him, he never would've resigned and America would have continued to be presided over by a criminal.
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