American Douche Bag vs Cecil the lion

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Last year he killed a leopard or Jaguar and skinned it, smiling for the pictures. He fancies himself to be a big game hunter. This time he paid some locals to lure Cecil the center of a major scientific study at a game reserve out of the reserve where he shot him with a bow and arrow, then a rifle, then beheaded him and skinned him. His name is on the internet now. His practice is targeted, he has threats now, and maybe he has to relocate his practice.

Sex offenders have to register so neighborhoods know what creeps are moving in. I think a registry of poachers ought to be launched and follow these jerks to their death.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Comments

These folks are merely personifications of corporations and their sociopathic practices around the world.

If corporations are considered equal to people in terms of human rights guaranteed by a constitution, who's going to register them so they won't move in? Their work is all on public display as well. In fact, they've learned that any attention is good for business. It's all just marketing, like trolls getting attention on a message board through emotion-baiting.

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.ren
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Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

Tom: I've already started this, but we need a groundswell movement on this: It's been said that the U.S. and Zimbabwe has a strong extradition treaty in place. I would suggest all your viewers (and all animal lovers) contact the Zimbabwean embassy in D.C. and demand that they request extradition for this murderer. We can make a difference, and though Cecil is now king on a different plane, we can send a strong word to those wishing to shoot innocent animals for the sake of tropheis. It's times like this that I wish there was a hell.

Thank you,

Tom Sullivan

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tsull831
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Jul. 29, 2015 8:23 am

Son of a prick!

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I am a Hunter Education Instructor - think firearm safety, I do NOT teach people how to hunt. Yes, I am an anomaly in the HE world. Lets call this action what it actually is - poaching. From what I have read about this incident he did not have all the necessary permits, they used baiting, were spotlighting at night, used a crossbow just to name a few. Obviously, each country has their own game laws but I'd doubt that they are ok with this behavior.

I spend a lot of time teaching & talking about ethics and the idea of fair chase for those that choose to hunt. Part of the ethics discussion is the concept of making a clean shot - do not make the animal suffer. If you can't, don't take the shot. This guy failed.

This guy is also a small subset of the people who `hunt' for the meat. He is into the `trophy' aspect and I can not defend this type of behavior especially those that pay to be led to an animal in the way he was.

There is a whole lot more to the hunting debate but this guy represents only a very small portion of those who hunt.

swede
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Jul. 29, 2015 8:50 am

However you wish to parse the issue of killing wild creatures for sport, it boils down to one of the sicker aspects of masculinity, the manhood imperative. Like smug, lunatic descendants of Ernest Hemmingway, these hunters will commit any unthinkable act (to the normal sensibility) to experience themselves as bold, tough, adventurous and, some say, attractive to women:

Brutal Manhood and the Exploitation of Animals

“This original and cutting-edge work challenges myths and misconceptions that are used to legitimate human, particularly male, exploitation of other animals. Luke supplements his arguments against notions of human superiority, natural species boundaries, and the naturalness of male predation with original insights that expose the shallowness of traditional speciesist thought. He then goes where few writers have gone before when he examines the eroticized nature of men’s exploitation of other animals.”--David Nibert, author of Animal Rights/Human Rights: Entanglements of Oppression and Liberation

"Brutal vividly illustrates the relationship between hunting and phallocentric eroticism as it highlights the relationship between gender domination and animal liberation. Luke provides a detailed exploration of the issues of animal suffering, gender domination, sexual domination, and diet, which will appeal to those interested in feminist studies, animal rights, and the animal liberation movement."--Rosemary Radford Ruether, author of Women and Redemption: A Theological History

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I heard one commentator compare the outrage over the killing of the lion to the silence from the media over the Planned Parenthood audio tapes. As one writer put it: "Planned Parenthood is selling those limbs. The social media mob has driven the appalling Dr. Palmer into hiding. The even more appalling Dr. Nucatola, who does to unborn human beings what Palmer does to lions, has nothing to worry about, not in America 2015."

And there is also this reaction: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2015/07/29/fury-over-cecil-lion-also-sparks-race-conversation/30828275/

Coalage1
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Mar. 14, 2012 7:11 am

Reply to #6

Don't be so quick in your declarations. There are plenty of women that enjoy hunting with bow, muzzleloaders, and rifles. I have never baited a area to insure a kill. I only endorse and practice "eat what you kill, or don't kill". I have no use for Cecil the lion killer but I am aware that many African game permits are issued every year. They are put out to control the population and keep it in proper balance. People should direct their vengeance to the poachers who do the vast majority of senseless killing. Maybe this stupid act will bring attention to that tragedy. Understand, I am not supporting this idiot dentist in any way. A trophy for the sake of filling up an office wall with mounted heads is not for me.

I refuse to accept the "we all should be vegans because of suffering animals" mantra. Vegans have more than their share of health problems. After listening to Thom's show off and on over the last two or three years, It is plain to see that he has had a number of general health and mental issues to deal with in spite of his vegan lifestyle, and I admire him for talking about it in public.

My point? If you haven't been there and done that, it may be best to talk to someone on the other side first.

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hollygolightly
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Jul. 28, 2015 5:49 am

I was imagining a couple guys aranging his next hunt, setting him up with a broken security fence in the reserve and telling him the prey likes honey so spread it on the rocks and path. They depart and are seen getting a little fee from Cecil's cubs, and a bear cub survivor from his recent hunt, and Jaguar kitten now full grown. All of them surround the dentist, the bear growls first and he's shocked there are no bears here. Then the cats pounce. The bear offers an arm with a spread of honey to the little cubs, the Jag asks the Bear to make a wish as he offers him the other leg and they both pull. Fade out with a Rod Serling closing comment.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I have to agree here. The guy is a douche. I'm not against hunting but I do have more respect for people who hunt for food. Libertarians like myself get criticized for having a pie in the sky view of how a legal system would function without a State. Here is a perfect example. Ostracize this guy. Don't go to his practice. It was a bush league move luring the lion out of his protected area. Kind of broke the spirit of the law protecting him.

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LysanderSpooner
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

The guy is supposed to be a health care professional. How does killing an endangered species fit into improving health? He should have stuck to filling cativities. These dentists charge a lot for services which often don't take that long and don't involve that much expense. Many people spend years paying off dental bills, and many, including seniors, can't afford to go to the dentist, with the price increases that have taken place over the years. These people have too big of an ego.

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Robindell
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

(response to #8)

I will concede this much to you, Holly: I respect the meat eater’s choice where their only source of meat is that which he or she has killed better than I respect the meat eater’s choice where their source of meat is that sold in supermarkets. At least the former has some kind of direct relationship with the life and death of the animal. The latter has no ethical leg to stand on, as an indirect participant in the cruel abuse associated with the raising and slaughtering of animals in factory farms.

I realize my opinion of dependence on supermarket meat is an unpopular one. But I haven’t seen a reason to change it yet, so there it is, for now.

I am quite aware that women hunt too. However, I’m willing to bet that much of the lure of the hunt for women also has to do with an identification with masculine values. I’m thinking there’s a certain attraction to being a “badass” female that feels great. The gun, or rifle, itself is a symbol of violence and power, as well as being a phallic symbol. Search Google Images for “women hunters,” and see for yourself.

Anyway, here’s the kind of hunter I respect: Meet the Badass Female ‘Poacher Hunter’ Turning Africa’s Scummy Predators Into Prey

Johnson is an Afghan war vet who spent four-and-a-half years with the US Army. Her idea of retirement has been to reenlist in a different fight under a different banner, taking up arms on behalf of VETPAW (Veterans Empowered to Protect African Wildlife).

In the past week, her decision to ship off to Tanzania and fight poaching has turned her from a selfless stewardess of Mother Nature’s embattled creatures into an Internet phenomenon known as the female “poacher hunter.”

And needless to say, hunting is something she’s quite good at. As in, split a bullet in two on the blade of an axe a la Robin Hood…

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I had a friend who grew up in Austria. On one of our climbing outings into the high mountains, he described to me the disgusting hunting practices of various of the men from where he worked and with whom he drove to a deer hunting site. As a boy, his grandfather took him into the woods to teach him what was involved in learning to hunt -- feeding the deer, tracking them, becoming very proficient with sighting his rifle and accurately hitting artificial targets from a series of distances, taking care of his gun, practicing gun safety and so on. A primary practice he brought with him to the States was to take only three shells on any hunting outing -- one with which to kill the deer on the first shot, which was nearly guaranteed by on-goingly keeping his skills honed, one to use to kill the deer in case he missed doing so for some reason, and the third for an unexpected or unlikely circumstance.

As he told me about the hunting trip, he became increasingly angry. He related that the fellows he was with took many boxes of shells, that is 100s (in comparison to the three he had brought with him on the outing), and shot up everything they could think of, including does and fawns which they just left lying to rot. Of course, alcoholic drinks were in abundance as well. (And to disabuse anyone of thinking that "it was the alcohol talking," the neurobiology of alcohol upon behavior is NOT to cause a particular behavior, but rather to POTENTIATE behaviors or tendencies toward such that already exist. So, if someone tends toward expressions of aggression, that behavioral pattern will be increased, or, for example, if someone tends to become depressed and withdrawn, alcohol will increase the expression of this particular pattern of behavior).

Due to my friend's disgust, he almost drove away, thus leaving them without return transport, but he thought the better of it, later refusing to go on any more hunting outings in the U.S.. He cleaned and oiled his rifle, then put it in its scabbard in the back of his closet, taking it out only to re-clean and oil it. He never hunted again during his remaining years in the U.S.

Now many gun owners / hunters will always say that the majority are not like this, that they are safe, knowledgeable and expert in hunting practices. Certainly, many likely are, but I would challenge such broad characterizations. Violence and aggression is endemic throughout our society, appearing in many personal, family and social contexts. Regarding the ubiquitous corporate animals-for-food mega-"farms," no one can really say that the treatment of animals is of particular majority concern or compassion for people in our society.

Again referencing neurobiology very briefly, the knowledge being gained through the study of epigenetics, the effects of environment (physical, social, diet, emotional, aggression, war, etc.) upon the expression of the genome clearly indicates that emotional and physical abuse in early childhood and on-goingly in developmental contexts of various ages, can result in an almost permanent condition of fear, depression, learning disabilities, aggression and inability to make clear and effective decisions, to name a few, when the cortisol cycle is turned-on permanently. And this near-permanence is ensured by particular blocking of "normal" DNA transcription processes at the biochemical level within our cells as they go about their regular activity.

We need to come to terms with the aggression, violence and lack of empathy that so characterizes much of our society (and humanity at-large). I would describe this particular action on the part of the "dentist" who killed the African Lion, others like him, and the bent of the current republican party candidates as being "socio-pathic," that is, without empathy, caring or concern about anyone else or any other life form apart from the fear-dominated disfunctional interest of self. They are without any understanding of their inner emotional underpinnings nor the biology driving their beliefs, opinions and actions, which are fast leading to the demise of our whole planet Earth.

20EbTh20
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Apr. 19, 2014 8:14 am

I take exception to Holly and what hunting permits are allowing. First of all almost all hunters are out for the blood sport of killing not for any connection to nature, they enjoy no they lust for the killing. Secondly, there would not be any imbalance if that wild life wasn't just wantingly kill off for no reason but for the killing or to preserve some other source just for the killing. And lastly, anyone that actually hunts for their meat doesn't screw around with permits, they go out and get what they need when they need it and they don't spill blood just because they are now permited to kill something. They don't do it for fun. Taking a life is never fun and never romantic and never pretty, and when it's over you say a prayer giving thanks to the animal's spirit for helping you continue your life.

To hell with sport hunters put them all in a big arena with all their bow and arrows and big guns with an open season on anything that moves. Last one to come out alive wins a trip to the darkest jungle with no weapons. Then they can do their big game hunting to their hearts content.

rs allen
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Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

Follow-up -- two comments:

(1) At least at that time in Austria, people who wanted to hunt couldn't just go in and slap down their money to get a license. There were requirements which had to be met in line with the practices and training mentioned previously. Eveyone having guns elswhere is not normative. Indeed, Australia has gun ownership restrictions which have substantially reduced suicides and murders.

(2) During his training with his grandfather as a young boy, my friend also related to me that his mentor pointed-out a bird that was singing high in a tree. He said to notice that the bird song had three parts, and that the during the middle one the bird was "deaf" to sounds and movement from below. When the bird came to its second part, they would move quietly and slowly toward the base of the tree, waiting until the sequence repeated itself. Finally, they were directly below the bird higher up. His grandfather then told him to aim his gun at the bird and fire, since he couldn't miss from their position below. My friend raised his gun and looked up at the bird, seeing it close-up. His mentor told him to shoot before he flew away. My friend lowered his gun, then told his grandfather he would never in his life shoot such a beautiful creature.

20EbTh20
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Apr. 19, 2014 8:14 am
Quote rs allen:

To hell with sport hunters put them all in a big arena with all their bow and arrows and big guns with an open season on anything that moves. Last one to come out alive wins a trip to the darkest jungle with no weapons. Then they can do their big game hunting to their hearts content.

Interesting, I have suggested doing the same thing in downtown Chicago, Detroit and Baltimore except I want them heavily armed.

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Dexterous
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Apr. 9, 2013 8:35 am

The last time I was in that 'jungle' it was knives and razor blades for the most part.

What you suggest is already happening thanks to the slave patrol dex.

rs allen
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Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

I like hunting for chanterelles. They're very quiet, but I've bagged quite a few after a heavy rain. I heard a cuckoo bird for the first time it wasn't in a clock and they sound just like the clock. 'So real it sounded fake' is a strange phrase unless we're talking orgasms.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Funny... I could swear I was the second person to post on this thread, but my post has disappeared. So I'll post my comment again. (SIGH)

This dirt bag not only is a cold-hearted psychopath; he obviously has tons of disposable income! Have fun paying your dental bills, my friends...

The obvious question that comes to mind is: Why is this legal? The part that really gets to me is how this poor lion was first shot and injured with a bow & arrow, then left to suffer for FORTY HOURS before the bad-ass dentist executed him with a gun.

I think this bastard should be forced to live in exile, deep in the woods somewhere full of large predators like lions, tigers and wolves, where the playing field is even, so that this guy must compete without being at the top of the food chain. Sure would be fun to see how well he fared under THOSE circumstances! Then we'd get to see how brave he really is! But personally, I think he deserves to be lunch for a giant crocadile. If I had my druthers...

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Aliceinwonderland
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Mar. 10, 2011 9:42 am

The two men who were bribed by the dentist have been arrested and on trial. Hope Zimbabwe can extradite the dentist and put him on trial. To claim that I didn't know it was illegal, is never an excuse nor is I didn't think it was. Besides, if you were bribing someone, don't ya think its illegal?

i've also heard that he has been in civil lawsuits for sexual assults/misconducts... Another reason to hate Americans. The dentist, such an outstanding and shining citizen of USA.

Oh and in Zimbabwe, killing/poaching of endangered species is punishable by death.

Will our government protect him or honor the extradition if ever filed?

smilingcat
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Sep. 23, 2010 8:14 am

He might need a bodyguard from here on out. The bear killing he arranged was illegal, too. Dick Cheney's hunt was for pheasant that were bound with rope around their feet. The desire to kill is strong in some. He still shot his friend in the face.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Its much worse to kill this lion that humans had given a name to than the other 600 or so that are killed annually in Africa. This hunter should be persecuted more than the other 599 hunters. Friggin sheep.

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stwo
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote stwo:

Its much worse to kill this lion that humans had given a name to than the other 600 or so that are killed annually in Africa. This hunter should be persecuted more than the other 599 hunters. Friggin sheep.

Very true but sheep aside, there are something over 260 murders in the city of Chicago so far this year.

Focus folks.

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hollygolightly
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Jul. 28, 2015 5:49 am

but, but, Cecil was an innocent soul, you guys.

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stwo
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Quote hollygolightly:

Quote stwo:

Its much worse to kill this lion that humans had given a name to than the other 600 or so that are killed annually in Africa. This hunter should be persecuted more than the other 599 hunters. Friggin sheep.

Very true but sheep aside, there are something over 260 murders in the city of Chicago so far this year.

Focus folks.

The murder of Cecil the lion inspires outrage and empathic suffering in those of us who abhor the domination and destruction of wildlife by other human beings. Our anger and pain stems from intelligence and conscious awareness, not sentimentality. Cecil represented everything that is wild, beautiful, exquisite and free in nature, and to dismiss the importance of this topic is to practice human chauvinism, to share in the sociopathology that ended Cecil’s life, the sociopathology that would end all life on this planet.

You can rationalize sport hunting all you like, but such defenses cannot erase the fact that any creature will be outmatched by the human with a rifle. Beyond the symbolic implications Cecil’s murder implies, we know this much: it wasn’t a fair fight.

Humans murdering other humans is a subject for another day. Here, the subject is Cecil and psychopathic bully who killed him.

Feel something. It's a good thing.

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

For all of the talk about machoism and the desire in some to kill, what is lost is the truth about gender equality and the double-standard that exists between men and women.

Men have testosterone. It makes our voices deeper, puts thick hair on some of our faces, and makes us more agressive. It also gives us aggressive urges. It's not just human males - the males of most species exhibit similar charactaristics.

Women, of course, have estrogen. (And other horomones. I know I am being simplistic.) Estrogen has a lot of effects, among them the desire to nurture things, particularly the young. Sure, there are some exceptions - women who don't want children or don't like taking care of them. But those are the exceptions, not the norm. AND - here's the key part - women are given the choice to either accept or reject their horomonal urges.

Men, on the other hand, are not given that choice. We MUST supress our horomonal urge towards aggression.

Saying that men should not be allowed to settle their differences with violence/hunt animals for food or sport/get aggressive is no different than telling a woman she cannot have children, or take care of anyone else's children.

If you're truly interested in gender equality, you must resolve this issue. Either let men do what their horomones compel them to do, or stop women from doing what their horomones compel them to do.

ChicagoMatt
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Apr. 28, 2014 11:29 am
The murder of Cecil the lion inspires outrage and empathic suffering in those of us who abhor the domination and destruction of wildlife by other human beings. Our anger and pain stems from intelligence and conscious awareness, not sentimentality.

How big does an animal have to get before liberals care about it? Should I feel guilt for the mice I sometimes kill? How about the ants I kill? I literally just poisoned about 500 of them this morning. Are you concerned about all creatures, great and small? Or just the great, far-away, rare creatures?

How about deer? They're pretty big, but not so rare, around here at least. Should I shed a tear when I see one killed on the side of the road? If I hit one, should I cry for the animal I killed? Am I a jerk if I admit I'd be more concerned for the damage it did to my vehicle?

ChicagoMatt
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Apr. 28, 2014 11:29 am

These are some fairly serious claims. How about some references or citations of some sort? Or are these merely you expressing your own subjective phenomonological experiences and generalizing to the rest of us human beings?

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.ren
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Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

I thought Teddy Roosevelt was a great enviornmentalist until I ran across this,

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/29/9067587/theodore-roosevelt-safari

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hollygolightly
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Jul. 28, 2015 5:49 am

Humans on the Verge of Causing 6dth Great Mass Extinction

And it may well include the human species.

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.ren
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Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am
Quote ChicagoMatt:

For all of the talk about machoism and the desire in some to kill, what is lost is the truth about gender equality and the double-standard that exists between men and women.

Men have testosterone. It makes our voices deeper, puts thick hair on some of our faces, and makes us more agressive. It also gives us aggressive urges. It's not just human males - the males of most species exhibit similar charactaristics.

Women, of course, have estrogen. (And other horomones. I know I am being simplistic.) Estrogen has a lot of effects, among them the desire to nurture things, particularly the young. Sure, there are some exceptions - women who don't want children or don't like taking care of them. But those are the exceptions, not the norm. AND - here's the key part - women are given the choice to either accept or reject their horomonal urges.

Men, on the other hand, are not given that choice. We MUST supress our horomonal urge towards aggression.

Saying that men should not be allowed to settle their differences with violence/hunt animals for food or sport/get aggressive is no different than telling a woman she cannot have children, or take care of anyone else's children.

If you're truly interested in gender equality, you must resolve this issue. Either let men do what their horomones compel them to do, or stop women from doing what their horomones compel them to do.

Yes, males have testosterone, which allows for greater aggression, but that’s not what causes aggression.

Take it from Robert Sapolsky, Professor of Biological Sciences and Professor of Neurology and Neurological Sciences and Neurosurgery at Stanford University:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/the-trouble-with-testosterone-will-boys-...

Quote Robert Sapolsky:
...high levels of testosterone and high levels of aggression still tend to go together. This would seem to seal the case-–interindividual differences in levels of aggression among normal individuals are probably driven by differences in levels of testosterone. But this turns out to be wrong.

Okay, suppose you note a correlation between levels of aggression and levels of testosterone among these normal males. This could be because (a) testosterone elevates aggression; (b) aggression elevates testosterone secretion; (c) neither causes the other. There’s a huge bias to assume option a, while b is the answer! Study after study has shown that when you examine testosterone levels when males are first placed together in a social group, testosterone levels predict nothing about who is going to be aggressive. The subsequent behavioral differences drive the hormonal changes, rather than the other way around.

When you examine testosterone levels when males are first placed together in a social group, testosterone levels predict nothing about who is going to be aggressive.

Because of a strong bias among certain scientists, it has taken forever to convince them of this point…

...Once again, do your hormonal intervention; flood the area with testosterone. You can do that by injecting the hormone into the bloodstream, where it eventually makes its way to this part of the brain. Or you can be elegant and surgically microinject the stuff directly into this brain region. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. The key thing is what doesn’t happen next. Does testosterone now cause there to be action potentials surging down the stria terminalis? Does it turn on that pathway? Not at all! If and only if the amygdala is already sending an aggression-provoking volley of action potentials down the stria terminalis, testosterone increases the rate of such action potentials by shortening the resting time between them. It’s not turning on the pathway, it’s increasing the volume of signaling if it is already turned on. It’s not causing aggression, it’s exaggerating the preexisting pattern of it, exaggerating the response to environmental triggers of aggression...
[Zenzoe emphasis]

And then there’s this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQTMO3bQgpU They’re talking about the idea of “It’s Genetic,” but it goes for hormones as well: Genes/hormones only have the potential for expression; whether it’s expressed depends on environmental factors, among other things specific to individuals.

In other words, testosterone is no excuse for bad behavior.

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote ChicagoMatt:

For all of the talk about machoism and the desire in some to kill, what is lost is the truth about gender equality and the double-standard that exists between men and women.

Men have testosterone. It makes our voices deeper, puts thick hair on some of our faces, and makes us more agressive. It also gives us aggressive urges. It's not just human males - the males of most species exhibit similar charactaristics.

Women, of course, have estrogen. (And other horomones. I know I am being simplistic.) Estrogen has a lot of effects, among them the desire to nurture things, particularly the young. Sure, there are some exceptions - women who don't want children or don't like taking care of them. But those are the exceptions, not the norm. AND - here's the key part - women are given the choice to either accept or reject their horomonal urges.

Men, on the other hand, are not given that choice. We MUST supress our horomonal urge towards aggression.

Saying that men should not be allowed to settle their differences with violence/hunt animals for food or sport/get aggressive is no different than telling a woman she cannot have children, or take care of anyone else's children.

If you're truly interested in gender equality, you must resolve this issue. Either let men do what their horomones compel them to do, or stop women from doing what their horomones compel them to do.

And this guy CLAIMS to be a teacher.

rs allen
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Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm
In other words, testosterone is no excuse for bad behavior

But my point is, labelling a behavior as "bad" - a behavior that is linked mostly with males - is not gender equality. Some males, with higher levels of testosterone, tend to be more aggressive. Is it fair to tell those males that they cannot act on their horomonal urges, but not ask the same of females? Is there any estrogen-enhanced behavior that is considered "bad" or "illegal" in this county?

I said in this country, because there are other countries where horomonal-based feminine behaviors ARE considered "bad" and "illegal", and every Liberal I know thinks it's wrong of those countries to do that. That is, forcing women to cover their hair in one country - hair that is naturally longer and thicker thanks to estrogen - is equivalent to telling men they can't fight it out when they have a problem in this country.

As one of my Foundations of Education textbooks explained it when I was in college: Is it fair to tell two teenage boys to stop fist-fighting over a girl, but not tell that girl to stop enjoying babysitting children or playing with dolls?

It's still largely only the men, in the West at least, who have been told to fight their basic horomonal behaviors.

ChicagoMatt
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Apr. 28, 2014 11:29 am
"Are you saying that all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed all the time in this country," said Tryphina Kaseke, a used-clothes hawker on the streets of Harare. "What is so special about this one?"

"Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange."
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stwo
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I think a lot of the anger from the Left is not just that it was a lion, but because a rich guy did it. Every story about it mentions the $50,000 the guy paid for the lion, not to mention the flight to Africa, time away from work, etc... It really gets the class envy juices flowing with some people.

ChicagoMatt
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Apr. 28, 2014 11:29 am

Quote ChicagoMatt:

Quote Zenzoe: In other words, testosterone is no excuse for bad behavior
...Some males, with higher levels of testosterone, tend to be more aggressive.

The science proves otherwise. Read what Sapolsky had to say about that— unless you're deficient in comprehension skills, you will see that higher levels of testosterone DO NOT predict greater aggression in males who have higher levels of testosterone.

Beyond that, I choose, for the moment, not to respond in detail. One step at a time. I’m not going to waste my time trying to correct the large collection of binary gender myths and beliefs you have embedded in your brain, obviously put there years ago in part by a book written by sexist douchbags.

Zenzoe
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote ChicagoMatt:

I think a lot of the anger from the Left is not just that it was a lion, but because a rich guy did it. Every story about it mentions the $50,000 the guy paid for the lion, not to mention the flight to Africa, time away from work, etc... It really gets the class envy juices flowing with some people.

Yeah that must be it.

God you really are a stupid shallow excuse for a man. Go stomp on the ants that showed up because you were too lazy to keep the counter clean.

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm
Quote stwo:
"Are you saying that all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed all the time in this country," said Tryphina Kaseke, a used-clothes hawker on the streets of Harare. "What is so special about this one?"

"Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange."

Well the does beg the question doesn't it stwo; why wasn't this big brave 'hunter' out there in brush tracking to remove a man killer rogue elephant or lion? But instead had two bush league guides lure some nice specimen to within range of what I'll bet was a blind or the safety of the motor vehicle he was sitting in. I'll even bet he didn't even do his own tracking after his butcher job of wounding instead of outright killing the beast.

Yeah big brave hunter. What an asshole. He was probably pissed because the hide had too many holes in it.

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

Americans have exceptional testosterone, that's why they kill each other in Chicago, and TX, and fly to the hunt:

Trophy hunters, mostly Americans, kill about 600 lions per year, typically males with large manes. More than 90 percent of these trophies are taken back to the United States and the activity often takes place in "canned" hunts where lions are placed in small enclosures or even cages and then shot, Joubert added. Joubert and his wife chronicle the plight of these sought-after male lions in a new film entitled "Game of Lions," airing on Nat Geo Wild at 10 p.m. ET on Dec. 1.
Shooting zoo animals didn't satisfy their horrormonal urges, I mean hormonal, freudian slip. Cheney's pheasants were canned, well, tied with rope leads, but pheasant is canned and sold in gourmet shops. Maybe if Cheney could shoot that kind he wouldn't shoot his friends. I bet he could get a skeet trap launcher to heave the pheasants once out of the can. I suppose a dog would have to be retrained (start him on cans of purina).

Testosterone is why Americans shoot one another over a parking space too. Dahmer might've gotten off if he knew of the testee defense. Roid rage is known, but it's from a supplement, not some 48 chromosome remnant.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

/6--people-who-get- kicks by killing-endangered wild-african-animals The TX cheerleader is especially disturbing. White rhinos, water buffaloes, leopards, elephants (predicted gone in 10 years), hippos, all dead with a grinning brat posing next to them . Trump's boys shot leopards too.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Douglas Lee, I'm as disgusted as you are. But try and envision Cecil as Aslan, C.S. Lewis' allegorical Lion representing Christ in his Lion, Wardrobe books. (Sorry to shortshrift Lewis on the title of his works. It's late and I'm ready to collapse. But not before making one plea on behalf of Cecil's memory.) I'm sure Aslan would not want to see Cecil's predatory "hunter" chased till his dying days. He'd prefer serious repentance and a lifetime of change hallmarked by sincere efforts to bring sanity to the sometimes necessary task of hunting for saving herds from starvation, and teach against killing for the thrill of killing. And the dentist can expand this message to gun dealers and get them to see the effects of their trade within our urban hunting grounds where kids are constantly sacrificed to appease the false gods of their parents pride and lust for power within their neighborhoods.

Remember what the Original "Aslan" i.e., Jesus said about revenge. Let that alone haunt him. It's already started because he can no longer practice what he put in many hours to study and build into a properous clinic where he could take care of his family's needs. He's done, and his family will have to suffer because of his selfish act in Africa. He's done. Isn't that enough for you? It is for me? And I think it will be for a lot of would be thrill killers who wanted to get in on what he was doing "thinking" it was "manly" and cool to do. Now we have to focus on caring for Cecil's cubs who are at risk without a father lion to protect them. And that's not all; we must all keep our leaders in whatever nation these thrill hunters and their happy hunting grounds are permitted, even here, to have them banned once and for all, lest we want to imitate the sordid example and records set by ancient Romans in their colosseums. They butchered animals for entertainment and they butchered them by the thousands. But we won't be much better than the Romans if we let revenge be our first choice of punishment for wrongdoers. Let the wrong doers live with their consciences till they can no longer do so and seek the help they need to make lasting changes for the betterment of not only animals, but all life a well.

Steven.PBarrett
Joined:
Nov. 1, 2010 9:01 am

I was thinking he could offer to tranquilize dart Cecil's cubs to save them from the new king. Zoos and game reserves around the world might offer refuge. Think of the 600 lions killed last year, if each has 20 cubs as Cecil is rumored to have, that means Americans killed 12,000 lions last year alone. Thats why the number is from 500,000 years ago to 30,000 now.

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Doug, zoos stink, most of those animals would rather live and die in the wild than live caged up. Ever watched an animal pace back and forth at whatever the boundries their cages happen it be?

Steven, I for one hope the douche is hounded till his blessed departure of the earth.

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm
Quote douglaslee:

Shooting zoo animals didn't satisfy their horrormonal urges,

Testosterone is why Americans shoot one another over a parking space too.

1. Lions aren't "zoo animals"

2. Can we extrapolate from your rant that total lack of Testosterone in Swedish males is the reason there has never been a shooting in Sweden?

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Dexterous
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Apr. 9, 2013 8:35 am

NO! Scandinavians are more enlightened, better educated and socially far more advanced than the knucke dragging people around the world.

When they mean equality they really mean it. Swedish parliment has just over 50% women. Norwegian parliment has just under 50% women. Human population is around 50-50 between men and women so it reasons that having a parliment evenly split really does represent the people...

As for Cecil, maybe his demise will bring relief and stop to all the senseless killings. Species are going extinct without our direct help by poaching and sports killing.

And I would sincerely hope that US will honor an extradition request from Zimbabwe. US gets rather upset when our extradition request is denied.

smilingcat
Joined:
Sep. 23, 2010 8:14 am
Quote smilingcat:

NO! Scandinavians are more enlightened, better educated and socially far more advanced than the knucke dragging people around the world.

Ever read about a group of people that terrorized half the world killing everybody in sight?

They were called Vikings.

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Dexterous
Joined:
Apr. 9, 2013 8:35 am

Florida man massacres ducklings with lawnmower as shocked family look on

That guy epitomizes the mentality of every male hunter, at least in this sense: inside every big game hunter is a nasty little prick who thinks mowing over baby ducks is funny. Note the dumbass expression on his face. I know— too many burgers! It’s burgerman!

For the life of me, I can’t see how taking the life of a sentient animal for fun and sport makes a person feel good about himself. I suppose there’s some sort of delusional narrative going on in the mind of a big game hunter: “Me, manly man, bravely overpowering the king of the animals…”

Oh, but here’s a more elegant opinion: “Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason — the thrill to beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game for one and the same reason — to reduce that beauty to possession.

That is to say, they’re no more than rapists and murderers.

Doesn’t this just say it all, at least more entertainingly?

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

So we've got two sport hunters heading out for the annual killing fields of fun. Having just exited the car and while crossing a stream to enter the woods one accidently shoots the other. Oh shit! The offender gets his cell phone out and dials 911.

Hello this is 911.

Hunter: help I just accidently shot my friend, we need help.

911: Stay where you are, we have your location now. Help is on the way.

Hunter (pacing back and forth): Oh what do I do, what do I do. I think he's dead.

911: Calm down sir, help is coming. NOW, calm down first of all.

Hunter (after a deep breath): okay okay.

911: Good. Now are you sure he's dead?

Hunter: okay just a second I'll check...................

BAM

Hunter (back on the phone): okay he's dead now what?

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

They knew exactly what they were doing when they baited the lion with a dead animal and lured it out of the reserve. I am sure that the Dentist also knew. They just did not anticipate the uproar (no pun intended) over the lions death.

They have buffalo hunts where some cowboys heard a buffalo up to a "hunter" for a large fee. That should not be called hunting.

Legend
Joined:
Nov. 27, 2012 6:46 am
Quote rs allen:

Doug, zoos stink, most of those animals would rather live and die in the wild than live caged up. Ever watched an animal pace back and forth at whatever the boundries their cages happen it be?

Steven, I for one hope the douche is hounded till his blessed departure of the earth.

rs, We have an animal park on Öland and the animals are not in cages. It's more of a reserve.

I was doing some numbers. 50 years ago over 500,000 lions now 30,000. Americans shooting 600 per year, males because they want the heads, means their cubs are killed by the new leader of the pride. Cecil's cubs number 20 by most estimates, 600 x 20 is 12,000 a year for over the last 50 years makes 600,000 or over 500,000. 30,000 left means in 3 years there will be none. The stuffed ones will be around.

I read a story about a guy loading a space shuttle with tourists to visit an alien planet as a kind of zoo trip. The customers stay inside the shuttle's glass walls as it lands in the alien countryside and the locals come near to investigate. After one trip the customers inside could be heard "Zygot always takes us to see the most interesting creatures" On the ground as the shuttle was leaving the aliens could be heard "Zygot always brings us the most interesting creatures to see".

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douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

One other thing, the saved cubs need not be captive forever, just until they can fend for themselves. Then, once released, maybe they won't know which cubs are the king's cubs when the next American killer takes his/her trophy and might not kill them in an attempt to take the throne. The American killers are rich, so stopping them is not an option, they own the country and it's government, as well as its media that should shame them but won't.

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douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

America: Meet Your Overlord Rupert Murdoch...

Thom plus logo The main lesson that we've learned so far from the impeachment hearings is that if Richard Nixon had had a billionaire like Rupert Murdoch with a television network like Fox News behind him, he never would've resigned and America would have continued to be presided over by a criminal.
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