Coal....How we've been ripped off....the toxic spills.....corrupt politicians!

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We don't talk much about coal but we should. IT NEEDS TO STAY IN THE GROUND!

Currently, more than 40 percent of all coal in the United States comes from America’s public lands, primarily from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming and Montana. However, DOI’s outdated policies overseeing coal mining on public lands have been continually criticized for failing to ensure that coal companies pay royalties on the true market value of coal. In fact, recent investigations have shown that coal companies are exploiting loopholes in the program to intentionally avoid paying royalties and costing taxpayers more than $1 billion a year in lost revenue.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/07/31/3686543/coal-program-high-le...

Take a look at what is HAPPENING RIGHT NOW in Vietnam! Ha Long Bay is surrounded by 5,736 hectares of open pit coal mines and three coal-fired power plants. They are already flooded with more rain predicted for the next seven days.http://ecowatch.com/2015/07/31/vietnam-floods/

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 8:45 am

Comments

Here is a working link from the above comment.

http://ecowatch.com/2015/07/31/vietnam-floods/

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 8:45 am

When I think about coal, I think about mountaintop removal mining and Mitch McConnell.

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 8:45 am

There is hope.

http://news.yahoo.com/365-companies-and-investors-throw-weight-behind-ep...

Legend
Joined:
Nov. 27, 2012 6:46 am

That Was Fast — Coal Goes Back to the Furnace
The Supreme Court ruling against the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) whereby the EPA did not consider costs was supposed to be a lifeline for the business of fossil fuels. Or was it? After looking at the data on Monday, 24/7 Wall St. determined that the ruling just wasn’t one that was so big that it would save the coal companies. continued

“EPA strayed well beyond the bounds of reasonable interpretation in concluding that cost is not a factor relevant to the appropriateness of regulating power plants.”
~ Antonin Scalia

And daddy won’t you take me back to Muhlenberg County. Down by the Green River where Paradise lay. Well, I’m sorry my son, but you’re too late in asking. Mister Peabody’s coal train has hauled it away.

Then the coal company came with the world’s largest shovel. And they tortured the timber and stripped all the land. Well, they dug for their coal till the land was forsaken. Then they wrote it all down as the progress of man.
Paradise1971: John Prine

SULFUR IN COALS

"The largest single source of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) is the burning of fossil fuel (coal, oil and gas), "The high capital costs associated with renovating the maintenance and fueling facilities to operate equipment on compressed natural gas is not present with biodiesel."
~NASA GISS: Tracking Carbon Dioxide Emissions from Fossil Fuel Burning

2004: Cabinet & State Environmentalists Fear Mountaintop Mining
The Bush administration proposed on Wednesday revising a policy that limits mining activity near streams, changes environmentalists say will encourage a particularly destructive way of obtaining coal.

The method, dubbed "mountaintop mining," involves shearing off the tops of ridges to expose a coal seam. Dirt and rock are pushed into nearby stream beds, a practice known as valley fill.

The Interior Department's proposal would eliminate an existing policy that says land within 100 feet of a stream cannot be disturbed by mining activity unless a company can prove that the work won't affect the stream's water quality and quantity.

Chemical Cotton, Crude oil Polyester vs Organic Hemp
High on Hemp
Hemplastic or Fossil Fools Crud

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DdC
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Mar. 22, 2012 12:39 am
Quote Legend:

There is hope.

http://news.yahoo.com/365-companies-and-investors-throw-weight-behind-ep...

Thank you for that article. I'm happy to see this kind of action happening. Here is a quote that caught my attention.

“Right now there are no national limits to the amount of carbon pollution that existing plants can pump into the air we breathe, none,” Obama said just days earlier, on May 31, 2014. “We limit the amount of toxic chemicals like mercury, sulfur and arsenic that power plants put in our air and water, but they can dump unlimited amounts of carbon pollution into the air. It’s not smart, it’s not safe and it doesn’t make sense.”

And here's another quote...

Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has called for open defiance of the plan, which he called Obama's “attack on the middle class.”

Mitch McConnell comes from coal country. It threatens his campaign funding.

McConnell said the regulations would shrink the economy of his home state by close to $2 billion and destroy countless jobs.

And what's with giving reluctant states options to comply?? What the heck is that about? IT SHOULD BE THE LAW! PERIOD! NO QUESTIONS ASKED!!! STOP POLLUTING!

Many expect the start date to be delayed by two years, from 2020 to 2022, in the final plan to give reluctant states more time to comply.

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 8:45 am

If we had continued the rapid expansion of nuclear power that occurred during the 70's, there wouldn't be a coal power plant operating. That had to be stopped, the fossil fuel barons could not allow nuclear to displace their noxious product. Renewables are mostly greenwashing for fossil fuel and in actual fact lock us into a fossil fuel future. Although geothermal & hydro are practical energy sources, they are extremely limited by geography, and more expensive than nuclear, also unable to scale up significantly.

During the boom years of the 70's and 80's nuclear was kicking Oil, Gas & Coal's butt. Nothing like that has occurred in history. Take a look:

http://docs.wind-watch.org/USELEC.gif

See how oil generation was just about wiped out by nuclear. Compare that big fat nuclear yellow line with your hyped up renewables skimpy little red line, almost invisible, except for conventional hydro which is static. Now look at France:

http://azimuthproject.org/azimuth/files/electricity_generation_in_france...

See that giant yellow line that wiped out coal and oil electricity generation, mostly in 20 yrs. In the $100 trillion energy market, the largest market outside of banking, anyone who believes that vested interests don't use every dirty trick in the book to protect their market share is too gullible and stupid to function in the modern dog-eat-dog world.

Warning: Nuclear Power will kill the Coal Industry Advertisement from 2007 in Australia:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lfibbBnlKt8/SLTA9jKAFfI/AAAAAAAAAC0/zKPo4lOrlu...

Germany, Electricity Generation by fuel, 1971 to 2007:

http://docs.wind-watch.org/DEELEC.gif

Look what Germany achieved with their all-out effort on Solar & wind. Compare the big fat nuclear yellow line with the skinny little red solar, wind, geothermal line. Even Germany did much better with Nuclear than they ever have with Wind & Solar. Still producing as much electricity with their "long shutdown" Nuclear as with their mega-effort, mega-expense Wind & Solar failure.

In any case it is of little significance that nuclear power plants were planned and the plan abandoned, especially after the 20% interest rates of the early 80's, and the onerous regulations of the NRC, run by fanatical anti-nuclear radicals. It is all explained right here:

http://depletedcranium.com/why-i-hate-the-nrc/

Shutdown a perfectly good, newly completed Nuclear power plant, by a bunch of well-paid radicals, using dirty tricks supported by the NRC. 50% of their budget was fighting lawsuits by money-no-object anti-nuclear lobbyists

Instant-RunOff-...
Joined:
Jun. 17, 2015 11:41 am
Quote MrsBJLee:
Quote Legend:

There is hope.

http://news.yahoo.com/365-companies-and-investors-throw-weight-behind-ep...

Thank you for that article. I'm happy to see this kind of action happening. Here is a quote that caught my attention.

“Right now there are no national limits to the amount of carbon pollution that existing plants can pump into the air we breathe, none,” Obama said just days earlier, on May 31, 2014. “We limit the amount of toxic chemicals like mercury, sulfur and arsenic that power plants put in our air and water, but they can dump unlimited amounts of carbon pollution into the air. It’s not smart, it’s not safe and it doesn’t make sense.”

And here's another quote...

Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has called for open defiance of the plan, which he called Obama's “attack on the middle class.”

Mitch McConnell comes from coal country. It threatens his campaign funding.

McConnell said the regulations would shrink the economy of his home state by close to $2 billion and destroy countless jobs.

And what's with giving reluctant states options to comply?? What the heck is that about? IT SHOULD BE THE LAW! PERIOD! NO QUESTIONS ASKED!!! STOP POLLUTING!

Many expect the start date to be delayed by two years, from 2020 to 2022, in the final plan to give reluctant states more time to comply.

How much would it increase the cost of electricity to all of us if we shut down all the coal fired plants? And the obvious second question, is it worth it? I'm not implying that its not worth the cost, I honestly don't know. But it would be interesting to know what the cost is.

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Mauiman2
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Jul. 27, 2012 6:24 am

What I would love to know is what are the comparitive costs, construction and operating costs of say a 400 MW generating station, caol/wind/solar/ and perhaps nuclear. I've got to beleive that a coal fired plant is the cheapest to build, but highest cost to operate when compared to wind/solar. But I am not in that industry, so I don't know the relative numbers. And I have been told that the waters are muddied because of subsidies. Still it looks like overall solar/wind generated electricity is more expensive than power generated by coal. So the question is, is it worth the extra cost? You are never going to get agreement on that last question, no way.

If anyone can provide the relative numbers here, I would be very interested in them.

Recently there was an EPA official before congress who defended a program (I don't know if it was this one) that raised the price of electricity in order to cut 0.01 degrees F off of global warming. The EPA official did not dipute the numbers, but still defended the program. That is beyond absurd, how anyone could defend a program like that is beyond my imagination. That person took a beating in the hearing, and rightfully so.

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Mauiman2
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Latest EIA data show levelized cost of electricity for service in 2020:

http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm

Coal running 9.5 to 14.4 cents/kwh. Nuclear 9.5, Gas 7.5 to14.2 cents/kwh. Hydro 8.4 cents. Wind 7.4 to 19.7 cents. Solar 12.5 to 24 cents. Capital cost is highest with clean coal tech 7.7 to 9.7 cents. Lowest with gas 1.4 to 4.1 cents. Nuclear 7.0 cents.

Wind and Solar are generally not practical as serious energy sources due to severe geographic limitations, long distance transmission, low EROEI, intermittency, requirement for 100% fossil backup, storage, overbuild, short life-span, high material inputs.

In reality, only Nuclear energy is capable of replacing fossil fuels. which currently supply 85% of world energy. Happy coincidence, Nuclear also has the lowest emissions of any energy source.

Instant-RunOff-...
Joined:
Jun. 17, 2015 11:41 am
Quote MrsBJLee:

Currently, more than 40 percent of all coal in the United States comes from America’s public lands, primarily from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming and Montana. However, DOI’s outdated policies overseeing coal mining on public lands have been continually criticized for failing to ensure that coal companies pay royalties on the true market value of coal.

Should make you think twice about criticizing cliven bundy.

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Maine
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Jul. 8, 2015 3:26 pm
Quote Maine:
Quote MrsBJLee:

Currently, more than 40 percent of all coal in the United States comes from America’s public lands, primarily from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming and Montana. However, DOI’s outdated policies overseeing coal mining on public lands have been continually criticized for failing to ensure that coal companies pay royalties on the true market value of coal.

Should make you think twice about criticizing cliven bundy.

What does Cliven Bundy's situation have to do with the American public not getting their fare market value of the coal that's been stripped our of OUR lands? This topic if you haven't noticed is about COAL!

Cliven is also guilty of not paying for his grazing use of our public lands so how should that make me think twice? Where the heck are you coming from? He is guilty of ripping us off too and that's the only thing that compares.

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 8:45 am
Quote MrsBJLee:

What does Cliven Bundy's situation have to do with the American public not getting their fare market value of the coal that's been stripped our of OUR lands? This topic if you haven't noticed is about COAL!

Cliven is also guilty of not paying for his grazing use of our public lands so how should that make me think twice? Where the heck are you coming from? He is guilty of ripping us off too and that's the only thing that compares.

You gotta give Bundy credit. He's always been saying that the Feds owning all that land is a bad idea. You can see the results...a massive subsidy to the coal miners.

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Maine
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Jul. 8, 2015 3:26 pm
Quote Instant-RunOff-Voting:

Latest EIA data show levelized cost of electricity for service in 2020:

http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm

Coal running 9.5 to 14.4 cents/kwh. Nuclear 9.5, Gas 7.5 to14.2 cents/kwh. Hydro 8.4 cents. Wind 7.4 to 19.7 cents. Solar 12.5 to 24 cents. Capital cost is highest with clean coal tech 7.7 to 9.7 cents. Lowest with gas 1.4 to 4.1 cents. Nuclear 7.0 cents.

Wind and Solar are generally not practical as serious energy sources due to severe geographic limitations, long distance transmission, low EROEI, intermittency, requirement for 100% fossil backup, storage, overbuild, short life-span, high material inputs.

In reality, only Nuclear energy is capable of replacing fossil fuels. which currently supply 85% of world energy. Happy coincidence, Nuclear also has the lowest emissions of any energy source.

Thanks for those numbers, yes I agree that wind and solar can only do so much becuase of the fact that they cannot generate 24 hours a day and the transmission lines are just too long.

Nuclear is great, but you do have the waste problem, and the results of a nuclear accident are horrific. But yes, there are certainy very limited emmisions (if any) from a nuclear plant.

I'm not in the industry, so I cannot talk about the waste problem with any kind of authority. And how many nuclear accidents have there been since 1979? Three that I can think of (Three Mile Island, one in Russia, one in Japan). That's not too many in my book, but did I miss any? Obviously for some, one is too many.

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Mauiman2
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Jul. 27, 2012 6:24 am

And even as massively as the cattle ranches are subsidized for grazing previlages, Bundy won't pay the nominal cost of use. What does that make him?

rs allen
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Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm
Quote rs allen:

And even as massively as the cattle ranches are subsidized for grazing previlages, Bundy won't pay the nominal cost of use. What does that make him?

a tax protester?

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Maine
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Jul. 8, 2015 3:26 pm
Quote Maine:
Quote rs allen:

And even as massively as the cattle ranches are subsidized for grazing previlages, Bundy won't pay the nominal cost of use. What does that make him?

a tax protester?

A TAX PROTESTER??? I guess you also side with the large corporations not paying taxes too? Are they just protesters or thieves in your world?

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 8:45 am

I also need to add......there is a lot of lands that we should be grateful the Feds own because much of it's been protected from people like the Gov of Utah who is salivating to get his hands on public lands so he can mine the tar sands and frack it up.

You also brought up something......"subsidized for grazing previlages"

What do you mean by that rs allen?

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MrsBJLee
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What Else Are We missing? Impeachment Should Include All of Trump's Crimes

Thom plus logo Donald Trump has threatened the fate and future of human civilization by joining with fossil fuel industry billionaires in denying climate change.
-- He has threatened world peace by upending our alliances with other democratic nations and aligning himself with dictators, murderers and autocrats.
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